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blankseplocked Redesigning the EVE UI for space efficiency.
 
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Krimishkev
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2010.05.06 18:14:00 - [1]
 

One issue I have is the amount of space windows take up. Especially chat windows. The chat windows in my opinion should be borderless or only by maybe a single line border to define that it is and entity separated from the rest of the UI. A Stack of chats, could be assigned to groups, where the group header (text at the top left corner of chat window) defines the type of info for that group, and then the group name followed only by horizontal pipe or comma delimited listing of subsequent sub "tabs" above the window that can be switch to by clicking or hotkey command. I know its probably hard to visualize, maybe I can mock something in photoshop and post it to this reply.

I pretty much think that all the windows in the UI should be built using this idea, we dont need EVERY window to have big bulky borders around them to separate their function within eve, that bulkyness wastes a lot of space and makes thinks look cluttered in my opinion. If you take these single lined bordered windows snapped to each other it saves even more space, and looks so much cleaner. As far as minimization and the ability to pin/unpin it could be a simple rollover at the top right inside corner of each window to display each option, pin, minimize, close. The same original idea of eve-onlines ability to shade, color, or transparent these windows backgrounds would still apply. Just remove the clunky borders which serve no purpose.

Window UI pic: It's small so I hope the MODS dont need it to be link, thanks.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

The little split window icon with the arrow pointing down represents and icon to seperate the window from the group. Dragging a window in a group would just require you to drag and unpinned window onto the group. The Pin/Unpin/Close buttons will appear upon mousover of the top of right of the window, next to the groupings text. I didnt put the font buttons in the mockup, sorry. They would just go in after the buttons to the left.

One last edit here for clarity. The portion of text "GroupName" is generic for whatever you would want that particular group of chats to be called, and the highlighted text of Corp means that the Corp section of that group is the one being displayed in the current group. To select a different section in a group, you would just click on the text of that section. I know people will still say well what happens when you run out of space and cant see the other sections? Well just as the current system now truncates excess tabs, so would this one. You would just have to unpin the window and make it the correct size to see all sections within said group.

This way I see you make Groupings for Corp/Alliance friends, intel, trade, ect. It works the same way the current system works, for the most part, its just a minimization of the ammount of space the UI currently uses.

TL;DR

CCP, We dont really need 3D looking windows. It's bulky and space consuming in a game where the ammount of data we need to visually process is already consuming most of the space. Tone the interface down. Please.

small chimp
Posted - 2010.05.06 19:00:00 - [2]
 

good but you forgot that own text on channels should have different color? also maybe friends and so?

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2010.05.06 19:23:00 - [3]
 

drop the chatbox. make it pop up on demand.

Krimishkev
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2010.05.06 19:43:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Krimishkev on 06/05/2010 19:52:50
Originally by: small chimp
good but you forgot that own text on channels should have different color? also maybe friends and so?



Akin to IRC, yes! Possible ways to make username text displayed based on standing! Interesting idea. Though I do not think the general text from the user should be colored. All kinds of colored text streaming through a chat only causes confusion in my opinion. Only the user name in the text portion of the channel.

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
drop the chatbox. make it pop up on demand.


If you are refering to something like the FPS, or "Other" MMOs not to mention here. I believe you are thinking some type of single global chat stream in and unboxed area, correct? This idea is ok, but... I do I like the ability to have tabs at the bottom of my interface to view specific groups of chats. Also, I like to see lists of users in the specified chat I wish to view. "Roomlists" in my opinion are needed.

Also, streaming chats overlayed on the main game experience in my opinion can be quite hard to read at times, depending on contrast or background colors.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2010.05.06 20:39:00 - [5]
 

i meant box where you type (on your example where it shows "I don't really know what to say now"). i never could understand why it needs so much screen asset when it's not in use most of the time. it should pop up when you type something, then disappear when you're done.
also, wouldn't mind fade out if no recent activity.
user lists are optional. i keep them for some channels, and disable for others.

Jekyl Eraser
Posted - 2010.05.06 20:45:00 - [6]
 

You should be able to merge chats so that primary channel messages show in bolded larger font and all secondary with different colors.

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.05.06 22:03:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Jekyl Eraser
You should be able to merge chats so that primary channel messages show in bolded larger font and all secondary with different colors.


This... I mean, all other games out there do it. Why not EVE? Single window with the ability to create other, separate windows if you want.

It's hard to smack talk in local right now while laughing with your pals in corp chat.

senitaph core
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.06 22:12:00 - [8]
 

i am not a big fan of the UI here and i did a little doodle of some UI ( very rough and was like 4 minute doodle )

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.05.06 23:16:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: senitaph core
i am not a big fan of the UI here and i did a little doodle of some UI ( very rough and was like 4 minute doodle )


Looks like it takes up the same amount of space as the one we currently have. Not exactly an overhaul imo.

Nikita Alterana
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2010.05.06 23:38:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: senitaph core
i am not a big fan of the UI here and i did a little doodle of some UI ( very rough and was like 4 minute doodle )


Looks like it takes up the same amount of space as the one we currently have. Not exactly an overhaul imo.


actually that's really good compared to the UI, for one, there is room to add the extra functionality I'm looking for in my UI project, and 2, and this is a big one, its square. Meaning you can push it around and stick it next to other stuff.

I'm saving that image. Also Senitaph, I'll be convoing you in eve when I get a chance.

senitaph core
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.06 23:48:00 - [11]
 

convo me on facebook as i am on with the uk election at the mo

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/profile.php?id=747185334&ref=profile

or i am Steven Mason if you want to search me


Party Scout
Posted - 2010.05.07 00:37:00 - [12]
 

I like that doodle. I prefer a functional UI over a pretty UI with hard to read circles (hard to calculate %), bad color schemes (active modules on a light background? ugh). So I like that UI.

The only problem is that it looks a lot like the UI for star trek online, and I hate that game with passion :S

Other than that, all cool :)

senitaph core
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.07 01:07:00 - [13]
 

made a simple quick UI centre console using photoshop and graphics tab ( eee got it yesterday i am using this as a excuse lol ) while i am watching elections.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Your Client
Posted - 2010.05.07 01:38:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: senitaph core
made a simple quick UI centre console using photoshop and graphics tab ( eee got it yesterday i am using this as a excuse lol ) while i am watching elections.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.




there is a need for a better ui for drones, agreed..

But what about ships that can use greater than 5 drones at a time?

senitaph core
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.07 02:10:00 - [15]
 

i will be redesigning that bit didn't realise i left a drone setting out until after i posted. pretty tired at the mo so i will see if i can do a redesign tomorrow



Sh'iriin
Posted - 2010.05.07 02:40:00 - [16]
 

- undockable overview tabs, just like chattabs. no limits on # of tabs
- different sorting possible for each overview tab
- bookmarks in overview
- customizeable buttons for different setups, like [fleet] (brackets off, weapon auto repeat off, local closed, ...)
- direct access buttons for warp to at xxx km
- direct access buttons for drone functions
- revamped drone interface window
- new icons for shipbaseclasses in overview
- new icons for ewar effects in overview

just to name a few. simply check the number of actions you have to do for simple tasks like "warp to bookmark at 10", "launch drones an have them displyed with healthbars" or "align to planet 6 moon 15". all those are packed into submenus over submenus.

but i doubt that ccp will recode the client to make the ui xml based, i even doubt they will invest 1-2 coders in it for some months to get rid of the most horrible issues of the ui. since today the $ point is: 1 new feature brings in more potential customers, than 1 fix would keep current customers playing. so the next year(s) will bring incarna, dust514 and surely no revamped ui...

Nikita Alterana
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2010.05.07 02:51:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Sh'iriin
- undockable overview tabs, just like chattabs. no limits on # of tabs
- different sorting possible for each overview tab
- bookmarks in overview
- customizeable buttons for different setups, like [fleet] (brackets off, weapon auto repeat off, local closed, ...)
- direct access buttons for warp to at xxx km
- direct access buttons for drone functions
- revamped drone interface window
- new icons for shipbaseclasses in overview
- new icons for ewar effects in overview

just to name a few. simply check the number of actions you have to do for simple tasks like "warp to bookmark at 10", "launch drones an have them displyed with healthbars" or "align to planet 6 moon 15". all those are packed into submenus over submenus.

but i doubt that ccp will recode the client to make the ui xml based, i even doubt they will invest 1-2 coders in it for some months to get rid of the most horrible issues of the ui. since today the $ point is: 1 new feature brings in more potential customers, than 1 fix would keep current customers playing. so the next year(s) will bring incarna, dust514 and surely no revamped ui...


I hope to change all of that, even if it means I have to join CCP and fix it myself.

senitaph core
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.07 12:25:00 - [18]
 

here is a better refined drawing of the UI console with possible future things added like power shifting, targatable sub systems and electronic warfare factors

i was on the bus so forgive the bad writing and drawing , the bus ride was very bumpy

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

senitaph core
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:52:00 - [19]
 

here is a better revision with a drone box slot which you would be able to raise or lower behind the console if it is in the way refer to the sketch to see what is what

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Krimishkev
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2010.05.07 15:58:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Krimishkev on 07/05/2010 16:08:05
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
i meant box where you type (on your example where it shows "I don't really know what to say now"). i never could understand why it needs so much screen asset when it's not in use most of the time. it should pop up when you type something, then disappear when you're done.
also, wouldn't mind fade out if no recent activity.
user lists are optional. i keep them for some channels, and disable for others.


Yes indeed, I think that would be a great idea. Would probably cause spies to type messages to the wrong channel as well :)

Originally by: Sh'iriin

- undockable overview tabs, just like chattabs. no limits on # of tabs
- different sorting possible for each overview tab



Undockable overview tabs would really not make sense, what is your reasoning? There is only one overview needed per situation. If you need more than one type of information, include in the overview configuration for that sub group.


Originally by: Sh'iriin

- direct access buttons for warp to at xxx km



There already is warp to XXX button in selected Items. Select Celestial, right click on the warp to button in the selected items window, and set the range you want to warp to. Configuring your warp to distance is only a few clicks/keystrokes away.


I like that people are reading this topic. Some of the issues about HUD design and drone interface are not really want I wanted to get discussed here. I am more interested to see the actually WINDOW designs, slimmed down, and the Removal the 3D tab interfaces, with Groups, and | delimited sub groups. This theory will work for all windows, including Chat, Overview, Drone Interface, ect.

For Example On the overview, to have more than say 5 tabs, right? You can create infinite number of groups (theoretically), and 5 subgroups per group. So If you have Normal Group it may contain the subgroups NPC,Travel,Mining,POS Ect. You have a second group called PVP, it has subgroups such as, All, Battleships, Support, POS, with appropriate bracket configurations for each sub group. For the drones Window, instead of 15 stacks of drones in the window, you have a Group for each type, Fighters, Heavy, Sentry, Light, ect. Remember, these by theory of my Interface idea in the above picture of my original post will able to seperated, so say you need to quick manage a set of set of light drones. You seperate that subgroup drones from the drones grouping window, and operate from their, while still having your fighter drone window handy in its normal position. Obviously drone mechanics would remain the same, and you wouldnt need to seperate the subgroup perse, but the option would be there. The idea I am trying to acheive with this thread is to remove the clunkyness off the part of the engine that creates and manages Windows. Not really the HUD or Drones operation, ect.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the preset HUD or module slot layout design, passive modules can be hidden, and your module layout can be complete customized. It is perfect in a lot of ways the HUD, except one thing. The OVERHEAT switch is TOO SMALL. :) And people, if you like to have minimal HUD, there is option to hide either side of the buttons, and use Fkeys you know? HUD is very well designed IMHO, but the overheat trigger for a single module is entirely too small.


Sh'iriin
Posted - 2010.05.07 16:32:00 - [21]
 

it seems you prefer to keep the functions of the ui, just do some grfx redesign on the windows. i would prefer a complete revamp of the ui, so that it's highly customizeable = xml based.
you don't see a need for two active overviews? i do. you have no problem with rightclick-scroll-submenus for essential tasks like warp-to-at-distance? i do. an issue useless to discuss in my eyes, because it misses the feature on a xml based ui: customizeable. but maybe wrong topic for me to post for anything beyond some marginal redesign of windows - sry for that.


Krimishkev
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2010.05.07 17:15:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Krimishkev on 07/05/2010 17:30:58
Originally by: Sh'iriin
it seems you prefer to keep the functions of the ui, just do some grfx redesign on the windows. i would prefer a complete revamp of the ui, so that it's highly customizeable = xml based.
you don't see a need for two active overviews? i do. you have no problem with rightclick-scroll-submenus for essential tasks like warp-to-at-distance? i do. an issue useless to discuss in my eyes, because it misses the feature on a xml based ui: customizeable. but maybe wrong topic for me to post for anything beyond some marginal redesign of windows - sry for that.



Marginal redesign? The current interface is bulky, and inefficiently uses space in relation to the kind of information is is putting forth. That is in my opinion, by far, NOT a marginal issue.

Yes the topic is about the minimization of the ammount of SPACE the client window generation currently uses. The warp to suggestion I suggested to you is in the selected items window, on the warp to button, if you right click it, you can enter a value for warp to distance. Is that not enough? I am not demeaning your suggestions. Being able to script the client is not only dangerous for CCP, it could be detrimental to other users as well. Imagine the possibility if to attack a player that you script only 1 button to activate all modules in association with the destruction of your opponent, it would make the game less interactive and quite boring, to be quite honest.

The right click menus for certain options like when selecting orbit distances in my opinion would be nice if you could manually set values through some configuration vs the default options. It would be nice to be able to set values manually in the right click warp to menus as well. But as I stated above, when you allow client side scripting, you are opening a can of worms in which CCP nor the Players need to deal with. This kind of flexibility opens the client up to a much larger array of exploits and to me is not recommended.

Also, your suggestion about wanting more than 1 overview displaying at a time. You do know the code for generating overview information now is quite sluggish, and very CPU intensive. Now, open 2 of them, and you've doubled that problem. I'm not sure in what situation you could possibly need to display two overviews. Is this PVP, or NPC/Mining related?

If the issues I've discussed in this topic are useless in your eyes, why are you even replying to this topic. Start another thread called `REDESIGN CLIENT FOR XML SCRIPTING`



OK?

senitaph core
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.07 20:42:00 - [23]
 

sorry when i think of UI i think of the thing that gets used most which is the central console


my bad


small chimp
Posted - 2010.05.08 13:31:00 - [24]
 

directional scanner:
No slider?

3463456725km vs 6.2 au?


Krimishkev
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2010.05.10 04:48:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: senitaph core
sorry when i think of UI i think of the thing that gets used most which is the central console

my bad



Honestly man, I dont think there is anything they could do to minimized the ammount of space the HUD uses. It already has ways to hide show almost all of it. and it has the ability to customize placement. It can be moved top of the screen, bottom of the screen, left, right, ect. With the exception of stacking every button into a big square thats all you've got. Have you ever been in a heated skirmish? The buttons are already close enough that you can click the wrong ones by mistake. Place them immediately next to one another and it compounds that issue. Not to mention it lessens the ability to visually distinguish one element from the next at a glance. If you turn it into one big rectangle, square or whatever. It's going to just be a clusterf**ck of buttons. This is and important part of the UI that needs to have its elements easily distinguishable. Also, since the HUD does not scale with the resolution of the client window, it will only make `finding` the right button to click more difficult for people who play the game in extremely high resolutions.

Originally by: small chimp
directional scanner:
No slider?
3463456725km vs 6.2 au?



again, off topic and has nothing to do with UI minimization.

but yes, a slider for AU would be nice, while maintaining the ability to granulate for the exact distance.

Irascor Luclin
Posted - 2010.06.17 01:52:00 - [26]
 

I support your post.

A few things based on your reference to IRC.

First:

I wish your character name was a different color from everyone else. (in all chat channels and I don't care if I can change the color)

From there I wouldn't really care, heck, why not just incorporate IRCish standards..

Ever since I left UO and played EQ.. I had always thought the devs probably used irc.. but the chat systems never really matured.. some are better than others. <3 EVE

If revisiting the chat system were in a list of two problems two fix.. the chat system should be shelved..

Heck I still use an old Windows IRC client : Xircon 1.0Beta 4 + Kano15B8 (theme *****X or Orion)

Thank you for reading this far, fly safe.

Originally by: Krimishkev
Edited by: Krimishkev on 06/05/2010 19:52:50
Originally by: small chimp
good but you forgot that own text on channels should have different color? also maybe friends and so?



Akin to IRC, yes! Possible ways to make username text displayed based on standing! Interesting idea. Though I do not think the general text from the user should be colored. All kinds of colored text streaming through a chat only causes confusion in my opinion. Only the user name in the text portion of the channel.

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
drop the chatbox. make it pop up on demand.


If you are refering to something like the FPS, or "Other" MMOs not to mention here. I believe you are thinking some type of single global chat stream in and unboxed area, correct? This idea is ok, but... I do I like the ability to have tabs at the bottom of my interface to view specific groups of chats. Also, I like to see lists of users in the specified chat I wish to view. "Roomlists" in my opinion are needed.

Also, streaming chats overlayed on the main game experience in my opinion can be quite hard to read at times, depending on contrast or background colors.

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2010.06.17 03:02:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 17/06/2010 03:09:45
I like how the ship status indicators work as they are. The Shield/Armour/Hull bars could easily stand to be thicker though.

And the module buttons easier to see.

And the awful drone interface... Sad


OT: That mock up looks very clean cut, and more than a bit minimalist/optimized. Someone hire him, quick!


Edit: I would love to be able to undock an overview tab. I could have drones and players split into separate lists. Or small craft in one window, larger in another. Or split caps/non-caps. Blues and reds. Neuts and reds. Ewar/tackle users and damage dealers. Shocked A simple, but powerful feature.


 

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