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Boshell
Posted - 2010.05.07 01:16:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Party Scout
Current suicide ganking allows the attacker to pick their targets at no risk (just scan them), positions your attackers at no risk (high sec after all), bring in as much firepower as you want (again, high sec, no problem having 50 ships there), attack your target, kill it, loot it, get killed by concord, and GET PAID FOR IT!!!

See the problem there? It really is flawed...


Bingo :)

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.07 01:18:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Party Scout
Current suicide ganking allows the attacker to pick their targets at no risk (just scan them), positions your attackers at no risk (high sec after all), bring in as much firepower as you want (again, high sec, no problem having 50 ships there), attack your target, kill it, loot it, get killed by concord, and GET PAID FOR IT!!!

See the problem there? It really is flawed...
The game favours the guys who get 50 ships together in a fleet to sit around scanning target after target until the right one comes along over the guy who is AFK hauling billions of ISKs worth of stuff?

My god, it's almost as if the game is designed to reward time and effort over laziness and stupidity! Totally broken...

Boshell
Posted - 2010.05.07 01:24:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Party Scout
Current suicide ganking allows the attacker to pick their targets at no risk (just scan them), positions your attackers at no risk (high sec after all), bring in as much firepower as you want (again, high sec, no problem having 50 ships there), attack your target, kill it, loot it, get killed by concord, and GET PAID FOR IT!!!

See the problem there? It really is flawed...
The game favours the guys who get 50 ships together in a fleet to sit around scanning target after target until the right one comes along over the guy who is AFK hauling billions of ISKs worth of stuff?

My god, it's almost as if the game is designed to reward time and effort over laziness and stupidity! Totally broken...


The game also rewards carebears with no ability to PvP. Just look at the current system. The guy gets to sit there completely safe. He gets to attack his target, and then be COMPLETELY compensated for the losses he incurs for doing so. After 15 minutes he gets to do it all over again. As long as he carebears his security status back up, he can keep at it for quite a while. After which he goes off to brag about his leet skills.

I'm sorry I thought this was a PvP game... my mistake.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.07 01:33:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Boshell
The game also rewards carebears with no ability to PvP.
Indeed it does. CONCORD exists. Highsec exists.
Originally by: Boshell
The guy gets to sit there completely safe. He gets to attack his target, and then be COMPLETELY compensated for the losses he incurs for doing so.
Time and effort gets you a reward. Lack of effort on the part of the victim gets him a loss. Working as intended.
Originally by: Boshell
After 15 minutes he gets to do it all over again. As long as he carebears his security status back up, he can keep at it for quite a while.
Wow. More time and effort means more reward. Striking observation.
Originally by: Boshell
I'm sorry I thought this was a PvP game
Then why are you trying to prevent PvP from occuring?

Boshell
Posted - 2010.05.07 01:40:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn

Indeed it does. CONCORD exists. Highsec exists.

Time and effort gets you a reward. Lack of effort on the part of the victim gets him a loss. Working as intended.

Wow. More time and effort means more reward. Striking observation.

Then why are you trying to prevent PvP from occuring?


Griefing while hiding behind flawed game mechanics doesn't count as PvP, no matter how much the leeches who suicide gank try to push their killmails as being. If it was PvP, there would be some sort of RISK involved for the gankers. There isn't. If they botch everything, the game gives them a nice sum of money for their screwup and says "Poor thing. Try again, it'll be ok this time I promise!".

Either make a way for gankers to be attackable BEFORE the commit the act (preferable) or find a way to remove the entire suicide ganking system so that they might actually have to come outside of highsec for once (less preferable due to the QQing it would cause on forums the first time they lost a ship in a real fight... still, I wouldn't mind being there when they finally do head outdoors. ^_^)

Andy Landen
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.07 04:47:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: darius mclever

No. they failed at PVP already. if you would follow your own idea to the end it would also mean that concord protects your wreck after you lost the fight, so you can come back and loot it.


Concord is like police. Aggressors are like criminals. Concord wins on victim's behalf. Protecting victim's wreck makes sense. The aggressor challenged Concord's rules and lost in pvp to Concord. I think that Concord should also guard the aggressor's wreck as the victim's property, killing anyone who touches either the victim's or the aggressor's wreck or container floating on grid. .. "following my own idea to the end."

Ragedman
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.05.07 06:22:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Ragedman on 07/05/2010 06:22:18
I suicide gank so I figured I will post my $0.02.

First off removing insurance payout from a Concord mail is a good idea, it will take all the rookies out of the game with no patience and leave it just to the veterans. I rarely find myself ganking a ship worth less than 350 million in cargo. Even then you have to consider that half of it will explode on impact (which is often does).

Concord protecting a wreck just won't work. It's a more flawed mechanic than ninja salvage. When you have a million wrecks in a belt some noob is gonna take from some stupid Guristas wreck and get wft pwnd. It just won't work. Can fliping and taking from nuetral remote rep wrecks during war won't work. I don't know programming so maybe not even looting war targets wrecks would work. Also what happens when all the loot is ejected in secure containers, you can just scoop those with no agro at all.

Easiest way is to have no insurance pay out. Lolz ganking and haulers with mediocre stuff will no longer have to fear.Also as mentioned above just use the corp hangar of an Orca or make a courrier contract.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.07 06:31:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Space Pinata
Quote:
Seriously now, gankers always existed, and always will exist as long as CCP deems it legal. Not even sure I'm against that per se. All I'm saying is, in all fairness to the game, that getting killed by Concord should really cost you. If you still wanna do it then, just for lulz, knock yourself out.

Why should being killed by unavoidable, invincible NPCs carry a harsher penalty than being killed by players?

Because it's highsec? You're not supposed to kill people in highsec. Yes, you're allowed to, but you're not supposed to. So if you do, Concord will come to get you.

Quote:
Could it be (gasp) that you just want CONCORD buffed because you rely on CONCORD?

Um, I think you got this deal worked backwards. It's YOU, and your ganking buddies, who rely on Concord: you get to assemble your ganking fleets at leasure, never running any risk, because they're there to protect you. And then, when all y'all jump your target and get hammered by Concord, you abuse another game-mechanic, the insurance, to 'undo' said punishment. THAT is the flaw.

Originally by: Party Scout
Current suicide ganking allows the attacker to pick their targets at no risk (just scan them), positions your attackers at no risk (high sec after all), bring in as much firepower as you want (again, high sec, no problem having 50 ships there), attack your target, kill it, loot it, get killed by concord, and GET PAID FOR IT!!!

See the problem there? It really is flawed...

Well said! +1

Freighters, in this regard, are a class of concern all by itself. Unlike the guy in his Marauder who fits his 1bil+ faction mod, a freighter pilot cannot make any such choices: his ship's EHP is fixed; he can't fit any mods to defend himself (or so as to leave any guesses as to his defense capabilities). When it comes to freighters, CCP effectively eliminated the factor 'piloting skills' (except for being able to fly the dang thing, of course; and core manoeuvrability).

Originally by: Boshell
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Then why are you trying to prevent PvP from occuring?

Griefing while hiding behind flawed game mechanics doesn't count as PvP, no matter how much the leeches who suicide gank try to push their killmails as being. If it was PvP, there would be some sort of RISK involved for the gankers. There isn't. If they botch everything, the game gives them a nice sum of money for their screwup and says "Poor thing. Try again, it'll be ok this time I promise!"

Indeed! It always amuses me how these suicide gankers try to pass themselves off as PvP-ers. LOL. Too cowardly to jump other folks in lowsec, where -- G*d forbid -- a bigger fish might jump them instead, they hide behind the skirts of Concord and their local insurance company to prepare for 'battle' (hahaha). "Ask me the questions, bridge-keeper. I'm not afraid," Brave Sir Robin said when she saw how easy it was!

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.05.07 06:45:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Mag's

Thing is, I and others like me with -10 sec status will still be there, popping your ship and laughing at the tears.
I've never ganked anyone for ISK in Empire hi sec, only for the lulz.

Hope to see you soon. Cool


Yeah, well, good luck flying around in highsec with a -10 sec status. :)


I and many of my corp mates do just that, in Battleships. Very Happy

Do you understand game mechanics?

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.07 06:56:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Ranka Mei

Yeah, well, good luck flying around in highsec with a -10 sec status. :)

I and many of my corp mates do just that, in Battleships. Very Happy

Do you understand game mechanics?

If you manage to outfly the Navy, you're welcome to stay. :) Most folks find anything below -5.0 sec status a huge inconvenience, is all.

Sith LordX
Posted - 2010.05.07 08:11:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Sith LordX on 07/05/2010 08:44:30

It's you who is crying, and thats the true reason why we do it. To make you cry. And if we made nothing off it then we'd still do it just to make you cry. Also to get a free kill. A loss for a kill. But also for your tears. Laughing

Also this isn't wow. CCP made highsec only high security space. Not 100% safe space. There is always a risk even in a 1.0 sec system. Get over it. Learn that is part of the game. Everything is working as intended. Rolling Eyes If you can't handle eve go back to your little risk free WoW games. Mad

This game IS designed to reward time and effort over laziness and stupidity! Great isn't it? YARRRR!!

--------------------------------------------------------
Originally by: Ranka MeiBecause it's highsec? You're not supposed to kill people in highsec. Yes, you're allowed to, but you're not supposed to. So if you do, Concord will come to get you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

No you are supposed to and allowed to! CCP allows it. Theres nothing wrong with the game. Concord comes just too late because they are supposed to come too late. Because CCP made it that way. To give the ganker time to kill.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.07 08:21:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Crumplecorn on 07/05/2010 08:25:08
Originally by: Boshell
Griefing while hiding behind flawed game mechanics doesn't count as PvP
I'm sorry, you are not the authority on what is or is not PvP. Also, it's never greifing.


Originally by: Ranka Mei
Because it's highsec? You're not supposed to kill people in highsec. Yes, you're allowed to, but you're not supposed to. So if you do, Concord will come to get you.
And that justifies making them ever more effective than they are now... how?

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Um, I think you got this deal worked backwards. It's YOU, and your ganking buddies, who rely on Concord
Oh, I'd like you see how far your AFK freighter gets in a world with no CONCORD.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.07 09:58:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Sith LordX
It's you who is crying, and thats the true reason why we do it. To make you cry. And if we made nothing off it then we'd still do it just to make you cry. Also to get a free kill. A loss for a kill. But also for your tears. Laughing

Look son, I don't really care why you do it. If you wanna make ISK, or just to get your jollies off, it's all the same to me, frankly. That's part of the game. You have that freedom. The thing just is, if Concord makes you lose your ship, you should really lose it, and not see it restituted by your insurance company.

Originally by: Crumplecorn

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Because it's highsec? You're not supposed to kill people in highsec. Yes, you're allowed to, but you're not supposed to. So if you do, Concord will come to get you.
And that justifies making them ever more effective than they are now... how?

Because now all ya'll effectively found a way around losing your ships. And I doubt even you would argue that you were not supposed to lose your ship.

Look a bit up in this thread, if you will, and you'll even see veteran suicide gankers come out and say that getting you ship back from the insurance company is probably a bit too much. Why can't you be man enough to admit the same?

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.07 10:16:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Because now all ya'll effectively found a way around losing your ships.
Nobody 'found a way around' anything. Loss of the attacker's ship to CONCORD was implemented knowing that insurance would reimburse such losses. You are supposed to lose the ship itself, not all the ISK invested in it. The fact that you can profit from attacks which result in losing your ship to CONCORD is not a 'way around losing ships', it's the design working as intended.

And T1 insurance is already getting a nerf anyway.

Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
Posted - 2010.05.07 10:35:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Space Pinata on 07/05/2010 10:39:02
I've said it once, I'll say it again:

CONCORD doesn't protect you. They protect -everyone- with a sec status about -5. Everyone.

Even the ones you don't like.

Yes, even your enemies. "But I don't want my enemies protected.." tough. You get protection, and so do they.

You can either go somewhere that doesn't protect anyone, and lets both sides handle themselves (lowsec, 0.0), or you can stay protected in highsec... and accept that everyone else is protected, too.

Just because you think you deserve higher protection because you're innocent and delicate or whatever doesn't make it true.

If my ship launched an army of invincible drones to destroy anyone who shot me, even if I died before they could do it, I would be elated... but that's not powerful enough. Laughing

In before more quote sniping and straw men.

Quote:
Look son, I don't really care why you do it. If you wanna make ISK, or just to get your jollies off, it's all the same to me, frankly. That's part of the game. You have that freedom. The thing just is, if Concord makes you lose your ship, you should really lose it, and not see it restituted by your insurance company.


Ok. But if you lose your ship because you were afk on a gate, you should really lose it, too. And not have it reimbursed.

Unless you think insurance would want to cover a ship that is drifting through hostile areas with no one at the controls. Laughing

Smabs
Posted - 2010.05.07 10:50:00 - [76]
 

Seriously, if you just manual pilot your stuff through empire the chances of getting suicide ganked are reduced drastically.

As for expensive blueprints and implants an interceptor or fast frigate with stabs is next to impossible to catch. Actually no-one will even get time to scan it. A lot of suicide gankers don't even bother scanning frigates for that matter.

Most suicide ganks on industrials and the like occur because of sheer laziness or a complete unwillingness to learn. It's not as if everyone doesn't know about suicide ganking. Everyone sees those sensor boosted tempests hanging around and there's only a few systems where it's common anyway. If you lose a ship like that then I'm sorry - you deserved it. It really doesn't need nerfing at all.

Davelantor
Caldari
The Resistance Movement
Posted - 2010.05.07 10:55:00 - [77]
 

Its just priceless when you see a suicide gang failing to kill your hulk :)
+ even tho i dont like them,
I think it is not a problem that needs "fixing"
maybe more standing penalty to motivated them even further.

eleve
Posted - 2010.05.07 11:07:00 - [78]
 

What really bothers me that EVE is supposed to be harsh place, but for suicide gankers it really is one ****ing Carebear Online. Just give people only standard insurance payout if they get blown up by concord. It should be enough for newbies too.

PS. How many of us even had insurance when we ****ed up our first ship?

B0X
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.05.07 12:21:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: eleve
What really bothers me that EVE is supposed to be harsh place, but for suicide gankers it really is one ****ing Carebear Online. Just give people only standard insurance payout if they get blown up by concord. It should be enough for newbies too.

PS. How many of us even had insurance when we ****ed up our first ship?


Eve is a harsh place, hence the gankers.
The funniest thing about this fail thread, is that CCP has given everyone the tools for almost 100% safe transport in empire.

As far as insurance is concerned, it's changing anyway, so it's a moot point.

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.05.07 13:28:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: B0X
Originally by: eleve
What really bothers me that EVE is supposed to be harsh place, but for suicide gankers it really is one ****ing Carebear Online. Just give people only standard insurance payout if they get blown up by concord. It should be enough for newbies too.

PS. How many of us even had insurance when we ****ed up our first ship?


Eve is a harsh place, hence the gankers.
The funniest thing about this fail thread, is that CCP has given everyone the tools for almost 100% safe transport in empire.

As far as insurance is concerned, it's changing anyway, so it's a moot point.



Tell that to a freighter pilot. You cannot tank or improve a freighter in any way. Even manually piloted, you cannot do anything to save a freighter from a suicide gank. Even if suiciders gank an empty freighter, the freighter pilot will lose more money than the suicide gankers.

Right there, just that detail there tells you there is something wrong with the mechanic.

No one is asking for protection, no one is asking for an invulnerable ship when flying through high sec. Suicide ganking is fine, but it should be at a great cost to the attacker.

There is currently no risk when scanning a ship for goods, no risk for choosing a target, there are even few choices for routes to take. If you want to go from Jita, to the southern sectors, there aren't many routes you can actually take, so the suicide gankers can just camp those gates.

Another fix for this? Make ship scanning illegal. Whenever you scan a ship, you do not get concorded, but you do get a flag like stealing a can. So the freighter defenders can take you down, and they are alerted the freighter was scanned and they can dock, or take other measures.

Anyway, something has to be done. The mechanic really is flawed when you look at it.

Atrei Capital
Posted - 2010.05.07 13:39:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Party Scout
Originally by: B0X
Originally by: eleve
What really bothers me that EVE is supposed to be harsh place, but for suicide gankers it really is one ****ing Carebear Online. Just give people only standard insurance payout if they get blown up by concord. It should be enough for newbies too.

PS. How many of us even had insurance when we ****ed up our first ship?


Eve is a harsh place, hence the gankers.
The funniest thing about this fail thread, is that CCP has given everyone the tools for almost 100% safe transport in empire.

As far as insurance is concerned, it's changing anyway, so it's a moot point.



Tell that to a freighter pilot. You cannot tank or improve a freighter in any way. Even manually piloted, you cannot do anything to save a freighter from a suicide gank. Even if suiciders gank an empty freighter, the freighter pilot will lose more money than the suicide gankers.

Right there, just that detail there tells you there is something wrong with the mechanic.

No one is asking for protection, no one is asking for an invulnerable ship when flying through high sec. Suicide ganking is fine, but it should be at a great cost to the attacker.

There is currently no risk when scanning a ship for goods, no risk for choosing a target, there are even few choices for routes to take. If you want to go from Jita, to the southern sectors, there aren't many routes you can actually take, so the suicide gankers can just camp those gates.

Another fix for this? Make ship scanning illegal. Whenever you scan a ship, you do not get concorded, but you do get a flag like stealing a can. So the freighter defenders can take you down, and they are alerted the freighter was scanned and they can dock, or take other measures.

Anyway, something has to be done. The mechanic really is flawed when you look at it.


Maybe, I dunno, escort your damn freighter?

Even a shuttle could do it. Jump. Are there battleships? If no then jump. Web freighter for fast warp.

???

Profit

B0X
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.05.07 13:48:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Party Scout
Originally by: B0X
Originally by: eleve
Post...


Eve is a harsh place, hence the gankers.
The funniest thing about this fail thread, is that CCP has given everyone the tools for almost 100% safe transport in empire.

As far as insurance is concerned, it's changing anyway, so it's a moot point.



Tell that to a freighter pilot. You cannot tank or improve a freighter in any way. Even manually piloted, you cannot do anything to save a freighter from a suicide gank. Even if suiciders gank an empty freighter, the freighter pilot will lose more money than the suicide gankers.

Right there, just that detail there tells you there is something wrong with the mechanic.



Alot of people hide in NPC corps and use freighter alts, if they were in a corp, they could have one corp member acting as a scout/webber.

If you don't want to leave your un-decable NPC corp, then you must expect some consequences.
Plus it takes alot of organisation to gank a freighter, seems only fair that they should organized a corp plus a scout/web helper.

The rest of your post was just laughable tbh.

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.05.07 13:56:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Atrei Capital
Originally by: Party Scout
Originally by: B0X
Originally by: eleve
What really bothers me that EVE is supposed to be harsh place, but for suicide gankers it really is one ****ing Carebear Online. Just give people only standard insurance payout if they get blown up by concord. It should be enough for newbies too.

PS. How many of us even had insurance when we ****ed up our first ship?


Eve is a harsh place, hence the gankers.
The funniest thing about this fail thread, is that CCP has given everyone the tools for almost 100% safe transport in empire.

As far as insurance is concerned, it's changing anyway, so it's a moot point.



Tell that to a freighter pilot. You cannot tank or improve a freighter in any way. Even manually piloted, you cannot do anything to save a freighter from a suicide gank. Even if suiciders gank an empty freighter, the freighter pilot will lose more money than the suicide gankers.

Right there, just that detail there tells you there is something wrong with the mechanic.

No one is asking for protection, no one is asking for an invulnerable ship when flying through high sec. Suicide ganking is fine, but it should be at a great cost to the attacker.

There is currently no risk when scanning a ship for goods, no risk for choosing a target, there are even few choices for routes to take. If you want to go from Jita, to the southern sectors, there aren't many routes you can actually take, so the suicide gankers can just camp those gates.

Another fix for this? Make ship scanning illegal. Whenever you scan a ship, you do not get concorded, but you do get a flag like stealing a can. So the freighter defenders can take you down, and they are alerted the freighter was scanned and they can dock, or take other measures.

Anyway, something has to be done. The mechanic really is flawed when you look at it.


Maybe, I dunno, escort your damn freighter?

Even a shuttle could do it. Jump. Are there battleships? If no then jump. Web freighter for fast warp.

???

Profit


I know most suiciders are brain dead, but any sucicider worth his pod (or any pilot actually), knows they keep their forces on a safe spot close to the gate, lined up to the gate and accelerated at full speed. No freighter even with a web can jump that fast. Heck, freighers are so slow, they can even be outside directional scanner range, and still get the drop on the freigher. Specially if they see it coming. One shuttle on the other side tells them when the freighter jumps, attackers jump in, and they can be there before the freighter is out of the safety cloak.

Again, all that can be done with 0 risk to the attacker, they can follow the freighter all they want, scan it all they want, and the freighter defenders can do nothing about it.

So the freighter is always at risk, and the attacker is never at risk? Talk about flawed.

Hodgekiss
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:02:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Hodgekiss on 07/05/2010 14:02:38
IMO changing the insurance won't make too much of a difference to proper suicide gankers, here's why:

It takes one battlecruiser to take out a poorly tanked indy, the battlecruiser is worth 30 million ish. Ok, you can take that 30 mil off the insurance but will the 30 mil loss REALLY deter the suicide ganker from making hundreds of millions? No.

You can scale this up to whatever you want, either way it is still possible to make a tidy profit because haulers and freighters can carry vastly more in value than the ships it takes to destroy them before they get concorded. The insurance isn't a swaying factor in whether people suicide gank, its just a bonus.

I got suicide ganked because I left a rigged Itty V autopiloting across high-sec space with 38k m3 of my stuff on board, including 2 hulks post the Hulkageddon price increase. Total loss nearly half a bil. Yeah, sure at first the ganker was the subject of a few rude words from me, but I understand what he did. I also understand that my loss was because I was stupid and careless. I DESERVED what I got because we were both playing the game, and I was playing it badly.

This issue is like anything else in EvE. If you do the maths and take care you won't lose ships. Assess the tank on your ship, work out the VALUE of the ships required to take down that tank before concord destroys them and don't carry cargo worth more than that value. Don't autopilot unless you want to lose the ship and fit a at least enough tank to buy you some time whilst concord do their stuff.

You learn from your experiences in EvE. No carebear LIKES suicide gankers, but an experienced carebear will learn how to up their game and protect themselves against them. This is a game of tactics and strategy, and the whole idea is that the people with the best tactics win, and that includes carebears in indys just as much as giant alliances in 0.0 space.

And no, I haven't lost a hauler to a ganker since. Cool

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:04:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: B0X
Originally by: Party Scout
Originally by: B0X
Originally by: eleve
Post...


Eve is a harsh place, hence the gankers.
The funniest thing about this fail thread, is that CCP has given everyone the tools for almost 100% safe transport in empire.

As far as insurance is concerned, it's changing anyway, so it's a moot point.



Tell that to a freighter pilot. You cannot tank or improve a freighter in any way. Even manually piloted, you cannot do anything to save a freighter from a suicide gank. Even if suiciders gank an empty freighter, the freighter pilot will lose more money than the suicide gankers.

Right there, just that detail there tells you there is something wrong with the mechanic.



Alot of people hide in NPC corps and use freighter alts, if they were in a corp, they could have one corp member acting as a scout/webber.

If you don't want to leave your un-decable NPC corp, then you must expect some consequences.
Plus it takes alot of organisation to gank a freighter, seems only fair that they should organized a corp plus a scout/web helper.

The rest of your post was just laughable tbh.


What's laughable is that there is no risk to the attacker. Now, THAT is laughable.

I would change the scan mechanic as I mentioned before. Make scanners flag the scanning ship, so they can be attacked by the defenders, and make scanning take some time to finish.

If the freighter carries no defenders, that's his fault. If he has defenders, then the attackers have to be witty in order to get it scanned, and see what it has. If it is worth it, then they can decide whether to gank or not.

That would add some risk to the attacker, and warning to the defenders, and something they can do do defend themselves. Not the current 100% safety the attacker has.

EVE is not supposed to be safe, but the suciders are 100% safe. Flawed much?

B0X
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:22:00 - [86]
 

Your ideas are flawed, that's why it's laughable.

Scanning is passive, why would it flag anyone?
But lets change it so we can look at your idea, do you really think it would make any difference and stop ganking? Erm no. Infact I can see a real nice way of setting up a bait freighter, but then for that to work I would have to be in a human made corp and not an NPC corp, you know that idea you avoided talking about.

But yea, freighter ganks are so wide spread it's way out of control. (that was sarcasm btw)

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:29:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: B0X
Your ideas are flawed, that's why it's laughable.

Scanning is passive, why would it flag anyone?
But lets change it so we can look at your idea, do you really think it would make any difference and stop ganking? Erm no. Infact I can see a real nice way of setting up a bait freighter, but then for that to work I would have to be in a human made corp and not an NPC corp, you know that idea you avoided talking about.

But yea, freighter ganks are so wide spread it's way out of control. (that was sarcasm btw)


It's a good think they are not so widespread, simply because it takes a large amount of people (not because it is difficult though). But there is still no defense for it. A freighter can fly with 100 bships escorting it, and still get killed without any of the bships being able to stop the attackers.

That's why I said, make scanning not passive, make it active and with a risk. You want to be a pirate in lawful space? pay the price.

All I see is lazy people wanting easy kills of their choice, taking no risk at all, and the game mechanics that allow it.

B0X
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:36:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Party Scout

It's a good think they are not so widespread, simply because it takes a large amount of people (not because it is difficult though). But there is still no defense for it. A freighter can fly with 100 bships escorting it, and still get killed without any of the bships being able to stop the attackers.

That's why I said, make scanning not passive, make it active and with a risk. You want to be a pirate in lawful space? pay the price.

All I see is lazy people wanting easy kills of their choice, taking no risk at all, and the game mechanics that allow it.


So lazy people organize a corp to wait and gank a freighter, with scouts etc? Yea sounds real lazy that.

So glad you remain focused on changing a mechanic, regardless of the other consequences for said change, because some freighter gets ganked every now and then.
But completely avoid discussing the reason the freighter is in the NPC corp in the first place.

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:43:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: B0X
Originally by: Party Scout

It's a good think they are not so widespread, simply because it takes a large amount of people (not because it is difficult though). But there is still no defense for it. A freighter can fly with 100 bships escorting it, and still get killed without any of the bships being able to stop the attackers.

That's why I said, make scanning not passive, make it active and with a risk. You want to be a pirate in lawful space? pay the price.

All I see is lazy people wanting easy kills of their choice, taking no risk at all, and the game mechanics that allow it.


So lazy people organize a corp to wait and gank a freighter, with scouts etc? Yea sounds real lazy that.

So glad you remain focused on changing a mechanic, regardless of the other consequences for said change, because some freighter gets ganked every now and then.
But completely avoid discussing the reason the freighter is in the NPC corp in the first place.


I did mention it. It does not matter if the freighter is in an NPC corp, or a PC corp. Other than webbing it, there is NOTHING you can do to protect said freighter. It ccould be escorted by a freaking TITAN and still get ganked in high sec without anything the defenders can do about it (yes, I know titans cannot fly in high sec, this is just an example).

And no, this is not only for freighers, This is for all ships. You want to take down an Indy? You have to scan it, but if the Indy has defenders (because it is carrying something valuable), then you can get attacked by the escorts. Same with a faction fit rattlesnake. You want to scan it? sure, but face the consequence.

As I said, want to be a pirate? go right ahead, but there should be some risk with it. Not the 100% safety they currently have. Open up a whole new profession, transport escorts.

eleve
Posted - 2010.05.07 15:26:00 - [90]
 

My point was that atm you can shoot almost any hauler you want and you won't lose money, even if you just get couple t2 cargo expanders from the wreck. That's what I meant with that Carebear Online for suicide gankers. No matter how ****ed up you play, you probably still make profit. It isn't wise playstyle to shoot first hauler you see carrying just _SOMETHING_, but hell, I have witnessed more than couple times eve pilots doing some really stupid stuff, including twice to suicie gank attempt towards my hauler which had about 15m worth of stuff inside.

Btw. that idea about making cargo scanner illegal activity sounded pretty fun. Eventhought the ships doing the scanning doesn't cost a ****, it would make things little more intresting.


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