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blankseplocked [Star Fraction] The opening of TAZ Norlonto : Freeport YWS0-Z
 
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.04 11:32:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
However, our policies are not something to be gamed or manipulated to your benefit and paint us into an unrealistic corner or dead end of stupidity. They are not some simplistic drone AI to be manipulated for your own advantage.


You have ideal, you have principles. From those you create a policy. I have maintained for a long time that those principles don't form a viable base for a realistic society. Star Fraction members said they do.

Each time you need to adapt your policies and they drift further and further away from your ideals and principles, you will be proving my point. Either you become like me, or your principles collapse under sustained pressure.

If it is more effective for me have a neutral anchor a few bubbles to change SF policies rather than shoot at SF ships, then of course I will have a neutral anchor a few bubbles.

You seem to have forgotten why you fight. You should be fighting for a revolution. Not a revolution of ships, but one of ideals, thoughts, memes, culture. Me destroying your ship or you destroying mine is, considering the amounts of isk available to us and the effect such has on either of our ideals, of little consequence.

Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
You guys are really tiresome, you know that?


Yes, and perhaps not too long from now you will grow so tired that you will give up completely. Being principled and staying true to your ideals, defending them in the face of opposition *is* tiring work. Certainly more tiring than shooting a couple of ships in space.


If I were to use some of the logic that you and some of your associates have used in the past, I would take that as admitting that your debating tactic was to bore the hell out of anyone in SF so that they stopped arguing with you or answering your pointless questions, so that you could go on writing the truth according to your narrow vision unopposed.

Which would mean Jade is right to dismiss your posts as spineless trolling out of hand.

Interesting world innit?

Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.04 11:39:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Darveses on 04/05/2010 11:39:35
Originally by: Furb Killer
I wont deny that i also have posted some trollish stuff.

However that all started after having several times legimate questions about why SF did/does certain things. If the only response to those questions are trolls because i was in an alliance (not even holders at that time) that was blue to CVA then i quite fast stop hoping for serious answers.


Well as you can see we can answer properly if we're asked properly.

May not be as much fun as trolling, but it will get you what you want.
Assuming what you want is an answer, and not trolling, of course.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.04 11:42:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Darveses
Edited by: Darveses on 04/05/2010 11:39:35
Originally by: Furb Killer
I wont deny that i also have posted some trollish stuff.

However that all started after having several times legimate questions about why SF did/does certain things. If the only response to those questions are trolls because i was in an alliance (not even holders at that time) that was blue to CVA then i quite fast stop hoping for serious answers.


Well as you can see we can answer properly if we're asked properly.

May not be as much fun as trolling, but it will get you what you want.
Assuming what you want is an answer, and not trolling, of course.

I am grateful for your useful answers.

Doesnt change however that i asked it normal before and only received trolls from jade.

Icarus3
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.05.04 13:24:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: jasper beamsalot
Grats!

Us mini's have been looking forward to this :0

also: 1st


As have we awaiting the right moment to welcome you to your home away from home :-)

The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.04 15:19:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 04/05/2010 15:44:33
I see Merdaneth has been telling lies about what I have and haven't said: again.

Here is what I have said on warp disruption bubbles:

Originally by: The Cosmopolite

The position on mobile warp disruptor field 'aggression' is with us quite simple: we don't consider ourselves to have been aggressed against if some neutral party's mobile warp disruptor catches us; so in parity we don't consider ourselves to have aggressed anyone if our mobile warp disruptors catch neutrals.

[...]

What I suspect has confused [this issue] is that we are not so petty to set neutrals -10 for attacks on unattended or abandoned mobile warp disruptors, containers or abandoned shuttles. On the other hand, if we were in the vicinity we'd ask neutrals to stop shooting at our mobile warp disruptor if they were in no danger. The point being, we're understanding of the situation. If some neutral is caught by our mobile warp disruptor and then attacked by some third-party, we're not going to get upset that they chose to attack the mobile warp disruptor in their panic. We can choose not to set someone -10 even when we're technically justified in doing so. Something that happens more than you would think.

[...]

1) If you are neutral and catch us in your warp disruption fields, we won't take it as hostile action unless you go on to fire at us.
2) Vice versa, we don't consider neutrals caught in our fields to have been aggressed by us.

3) If you attack our fixed infrastructure or SBUs you will be considered hostile.
4) If you attack our mobile warp disruptors while not under fire and don't desist after having been warned, we will take proportionate action to stop you and the matter of standings will be subject to diplomacy.



I have emphasised certain passages.

First, remember this: we treat others as we ourselves expect to be treated.

Second, note that we consider aggression against our mobile warp disruptors does not automatically indicate hostility from a party. When abandoned, this is particularly the case and we would not set someone -10 for destroying a mobile warp disruptor belonging to us that had been abandoned in space. If we were operating the mobile warp disruptor, we would generally issue a warning and even if it was disregarded minimal action would be taken and diplomacy would follow. We would of course sympathetically respond to requests by people to remove the bubble if it was seriously impairing their ability to operate.

It follows from this that we consider ourselves quite able to remove abandoned mobile warp disruptors where they constitute a hazard to our shipping. We also would have no qualms in requesting removal of bubbles belonging to third-parties.

Third, it is absolutely correct that if we were in a emergency situatiuon where we found we had to destroy a neutral or blue third-party mobile warp disruptor in order to secure our ships or assets, we would do so and be quite prepared to pay the market rate reimbursement in compensation.

All this follows quite simply from our attitude to temporarily anchored objects such as mobile warp disruptors and containers. There is no 'new adaptation' of our principles. This is how we have practically applied our principles for a long time.

I think it is far to say that any mobile warp disruptor bubbles abandoned in the vicinity of TAZ Norlonto will be removed if they impede the free-flow of traffic and we would have zero problem with others removing any abandoned bubbles belonging to us from either the vicinity of their stations or open space in general.

The Cosmopolite

PS. Anticipating a possible gambit, let me make clear that our mobile warp disruptors anchored at our starbases are not abandoned. They are considered part of the defence network of the starbase. Again, we would not consider other people's bubbles at their starbases to be abandoned.

The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.04 15:38:00 - [66]
 

All the above to the side, I would like to put on record my satisfaction in seeing the freecaptains of the Star Fraction alliance working together to establish a new freeport in liberated Providence: TAZ Norlonto.

From the foundation of this new temporary autonomous zone the principles of the Star Fraction and anarchism will find new expression and serve as a vital example of the possibilities of freedom for all to see.

On a personal note, I will be offering a wide range of medical services at standard rates from my new laboratory in the life and medical sciences sector of the TAZ. Further details will be forthcoming as the more... exotic equipment is shipped in from my suppliers in Stain Region.

The Cosmopolite

Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERWHERE
Posted - 2010.05.04 16:09:00 - [67]
 

I am profoundly pleased with the erection of this functional statue of freespace. This marks a vast success in the efforts of Star Fraction whom have been disregarded by nationalists and enclosurists as an exercise in vanity or a hopeless dream.

This dream of freespace has materialized into something truly beneficial and relevant to nullsec politics. We have proven it is possible to claim a region for the common. We have proven that aggression does not require malice, mindlessness or a government without peers.

Major Templar
Caldari
Steel Daggers
Posted - 2010.05.04 17:16:00 - [68]
 

Congrats guys. Great achievement.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.04 19:19:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Furb Killer
I wont deny that i also have posted some trollish stuff.
Doesnt change however that i asked it normal before and only received trolls from jade.


There are a couple of ways you can ensure I am less unkind to your posts:


Display your corp and alliance affiliation on this forum
Avoid the usual "so what you are saying is..." argumentative claptrap
Ask questions clearly and honestly, avoid leading questions and dishonest yes/no traps
Do not attempt to answer questions for others or put words in their mouths
Read what you are told and attempt to process that into your knowledge of the subject
Accept that your understanding of NRDS is not the only understanding of Freespace
Don't bother pointing out debating fallacies, this is not a court of law
Stop repeating the same stuff in dozens of simultaneous threads

If you can manage this you'll find your experience in Star Fraction threads far improved.

Xious
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.05.04 20:31:00 - [70]
 

My dear Jade, congratulations are due on the contruction of such a beautiful outpost, may it stand forever as a beacon of freedom.

I do hope, however, you have set aside a room for myself and my traveling act? It requires enough space for several seats and a vertical pole, approximatly 8 feet high.


Ehrine Ashbark
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.04 21:26:00 - [71]
 

I'm pretty sure there's somewhere that could fit on deck 4. If not, I'll see what can be arranged as and when we next modify the configuration.

RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2010.05.04 22:19:00 - [72]
 

I may stop by and clog the bog.

Congratulations on new station.

YARRRR!!


Tetseptus
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.05 09:05:00 - [73]
 

May I take the opportunity to thank the originators for all of the kind words and congratulations that have been offered.

I might also remark that an announcement of ours would surely not be complete without he customary capering of Merdaneth and Furb Killer. I feel they would have been missed if they had not commented. Indeed, I am beginning to see them as mascots or court jesters of one kind or another. Their absences would have been felt.

Their 'questions', and I use the term loosely, always give us an opportunity to represent the same fundamental truths again and again, wherever we comment, reiterating them for those that need to know and reassuring newcomers to the debates of our intentions.

Hence, thank you all.

Kade Jeekin
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2010.05.05 11:09:00 - [74]
 

A momentous step. An extension of the ideal. Onwards.

Rorin Cutter
Caldari
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.05 12:08:00 - [75]
 

An interesting development, congratulations are in order I should say. It will make a fine addition to the Empire. I am sure that the Empress will surly enjoy receiving it as a gift, from her faithful people.

Amarr Victor!

-Rorin

Azure Skyclad
Amarr
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.05 21:48:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Rorin Cutter
An interesting development, congratulations are in order I should say. It will make a fine addition to the Empire. I am sure that the Empress will surly enjoy receiving it as a gift, from her faithful people.

Amarr Victor!

-Rorin


Might be worth getting that boot out of your arse first.

Congratulations Star Fraction. I might swing by and throw bog roll down the ladies bog to even things up a bit. Wink


Chai N'Dorr
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2010.05.06 09:03:00 - [77]
 

Congratulations are in order my old friends. I'd never thought I'd see something like this happening. Good luch in this endeavour, I might pop over for a celebratory drink or two!

DarthMopp
Gallente
I.D.I.O.T.
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.05.06 17:09:00 - [78]
 

Despite all dissent:

Building an Outpost always was and always will be a great achievement for every alliance.

So i congratulate the Star Fraction on raising TAZ Norlonto. Good work.

Garst Tyrell
No.Mercy
Merciless.
Posted - 2010.05.07 06:23:00 - [79]
 

I congratulate you on your ability to build undocks to hug where previously there were none! Let no abaddon aggress without a safety net at least a dozen kilomters wide! huzzah!

Progess is a beautiful thing.

Vincent Death
Inglorious-Basterds
Posted - 2010.05.07 12:34:00 - [80]
 

What is the Star Fractions policy towards members of nationalist entities such as the militias making use of their administered space for purely economic reasons?

The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.07 13:33:00 - [81]
 

Well, the administered infrastructure is open to neutrals and blues where practical, which in practice means the TAZ itself.

So far as the space, neutrals and blues can make use of it in the normal ways without interference from us. Reds can attempt to make use of it but they will be targets for our forces, as normal.

This position covers the militias just as it covers any corporation or alliance.

The Cosmopolite

Kelsin
Dirt Dog Trading Company
Posted - 2010.05.07 15:32:00 - [82]
 

Danger and riches await for the brave and free. Markets are already growing as daring smugglers supply TAZ Norlonto with all a capsuleer might need to fit and fuel their warships. Meanwhile, buyers hunger for the spoils of freespace and there are ISK to be made if you've got the guts.

Whatever you're buying, whatever you're selling - TAZ Norlonto is the place to go

Icarus3
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.05.07 17:00:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Garst Tyrell
I congratulate you on your ability to build undocks to hug where previously there were none! Let no abaddon aggress without a safety net at least a dozen kilomters wide! huzzah!

Progess is a beautiful thing.


Garst Tyrell = Bitter Panda


Lyris Nairn
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.05.09 16:56:00 - [84]
 

It is pleasant to see peaceful commerce and industry still have a place in Providence.

edeity
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.10 00:45:00 - [85]
 

Congratulations. I shall visit this station in my Loki to pay respects.

Darth Sith
Genbuku.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.05.10 23:48:00 - [86]
 

Free access to strippers and blow .. yar!

Cool

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.05.12 10:30:00 - [87]
 

A thing of beauty. Just like you Jade. *wink*

Dallenn
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.06.18 19:27:00 - [88]
 

The TAZ Norlonto has proved to be much more than just the welcome refuge should you be intimidated by a 40 ship fleet visiting local space. It is a center of liberal culture, where capsuleers and non-capsuleers alike meet and mingle, enjoying the company and the exciting exchange of ideas. And it is a market - the heavy economic pump that circulates the very necessities of capsuleer life.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.06.18 19:40:00 - [89]
 

Can my guys dock here? I forget what our standings are, or if you're still sore about that Atandros thing ;f

The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.06.18 20:26:00 - [90]
 

I suspect our respective outfits would have to have a private discussion, Captain Shogaatsu. The formal position, at present, is that your organization cannot dock. That said, we're always open to diplomatic overtures and I'm not conscious of us being sore about past matters. We just like to keep our affairs regular.

The Cosmopolite


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