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Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.04.30 18:33:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Straight Chillen
Damn, this guy is trolling the hell outta all of you.




Regardless of the intention of the OP, this is still a worthwhile discussion.

Kharadran Sullath
Caldari
Subordination
Posted - 2010.04.30 19:01:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Kharadran Sullath on 30/04/2010 19:02:14
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Straight Chillen
Damn, this guy is trolling the hell outta all of you.




Regardless of the intention of the OP, this is still a worthwhile discussion.


How exactly is something which will never happen a worthwhile discussion? Does anyone honestly believe that CCP would even consider splitting TQ? Give me a break.

Edit: Why the **** is a thread about a discussion which can only end in the same way as every other similar threads before it 5 pages long? End it already.

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.04.30 19:16:00 - [123]
 

First of all, it's at 5 pages because there is actually something worth talking about even if its been discussed before. Something that was considered in the past is not automagically invalid because the discussion halted back then. Secondly, there really isn't a lot of trolling or silliness in this thread. I think that the number of constuctive posts goes well over the usual ratios in GD. Enough of that though. Back to the point.

This is directed mostly to Tip and Avon. Where is the lag generating population going to come from when the overall numbers are comfortably small? And I don't think implementation of a new cluster automatically means that the amount of number crunchies per player is kept at the exact same level. That'd be sort of silly, I should think.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.04.30 20:16:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
there really isn't a lot of trolling or silliness in this thread
Quote of the day.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.04.30 20:23:00 - [125]
 

SAGE!

Iture
Caldari
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.04.30 20:25:00 - [126]
 

Just because i dont want CCP to get any idea's.

I'm betting 90% of the player base would leave outright.

And most of your original complaints would still exist.

Hecate Shaw
Caldari
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2010.04.30 20:34:00 - [127]
 

Kallieah - have you seen the video released by CCP entitled "Eve Butterfly Effect"? Given what is said in that video, I think your chances of convincing them to shard TQ is somewhere between "NO!" and "Oh, **** NO!".

Excepting the upswing of lag introduced by Dominion, TQ is working as intended.

Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
Posted - 2010.04.30 20:37:00 - [128]
 

SAGE!

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
Posted - 2010.04.30 20:49:00 - [129]
 

Terrible idea. Awful idea.

Zex Maxwell
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.30 21:52:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
So there's some lag out there caused by big fleet fights and dev teams are working to resolve the problem. Because I have a lot of insight into these sorts of things, I'm going to toss out a suggestion.

TQ should be divided into multiple, smaller server things so that when you log on


/me Stopped reading.

Something tells me your a new player that came from WoW. Go back where you came from...


Volius
Hizzy Hizzy Hippos
Posted - 2010.04.30 22:39:00 - [131]
 

Lag issues aside, Wikipedia says there's over 7500 systems in Eve Online. Doesn't 8k people on a shard spread over 7.5k systems on the same shard seem a little bleak?

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.05.01 00:47:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Kallieah on 01/05/2010 00:47:57
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Kallieah
there really isn't a lot of trolling or silliness in this thread
Quote of the day.


I like being quotable! And hi there Crumplecorn! I love your forum posts in other threads! Thanks for coming to visit me in this one!

Originally by: Iture
I'm betting 90% of the player base would leave outright.


I'm betting almost no one will leave because there's nothing else around like EVE whether its on more than one realm or not.

Originally by: Hecate Shaw
Kallieah - have you seen the video released by CCP entitled "Eve Butterfly Effect"? Given what is said in that video, I think your chances of convincing them to shard TQ is somewhere between "NO!" and "Oh, **** NO!".


I did see the video and it was sort of interesting and well made too even. Though I doubt that has anything to do with anything really aside from the fact that your actions impact potentially the whole world. That's still true if there's more than one world.

Originally by: Zex Maxwell
/me Stopped reading. Something tells me your a new player that came from WoW. Go back where you came from...


If you'd read the rest of the thread before jumping to conclusions, you could offer a more informed and constructive opinion.

Originally by: Volius
Lag issues aside, Wikipedia says there's over 7500 systems in Eve Online. Doesn't 8k people on a shard spread over 7.5k systems on the same shard seem a little bleak?


Not bleak enough for my tastes, personally. However my idea meets everyone's expectations at a reasonable level of compromise even if there are a few small, vocal minority that doesn't agree and isn't offering really good solutions either for that matter. I at least stated the problem and offered a good, workable answer that wouldn't waste a lot of time and make the small nullsec populations very happy.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.01 01:09:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
I like being quotable! And hi there Crumplecorn! I love your forum posts in other threads! Thanks for coming to visit me in this one!
I'd visit more often, but there's a queue outside of people waiting to tell you how wrong you are. I think CCP might start charging for admission.

Originally by: Kallieah
your actions impact potentially the whole world. That's still true if there's more than one world.
By definition not true.

Originally by: Kallieah
there are a few small, vocal minority that doesn't agree and isn't offering really good solutions either for that matter.
Judging by the thread, you are the minority here. Lag doesn't have a solution because it is not a problem - it is a fact of life; you can mitigate it, but not 'solve' it. And CCP are managing to do that (Dominion notwithstanding) without cutting EVE into little bits.

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.05.01 01:16:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Kallieah
I like being quotable! And hi there Crumplecorn! I love your forum posts in other threads! Thanks for coming to visit me in this one!
I'd visit more often, but there's a queue outside of people waiting to tell you how wrong you are. I think CCP might start charging for admission.

I don't mind taking on a controversial viewpoint for the sake of argument if it might have a slim chance at changing the game for the better. Making EVE into micro EVEs would be better so I'm all for it! I'm sure there are a very large number of people who either are for it or don't care one way or the other who aren't posting here. Why else would this not be the first discussion about the idea?

Anyway, I think CCP in a way does charge admission. You do have to have an active account to make replies after all. An, in a roundabout way, I'm getting paid for it too by adding potential value to EVE. Everyone wins!

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.01 01:22:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
I don't mind taking on a controversial viewpoint for the sake of argument if it might have a slim chance at changing the game for the better. Making EVE into micro EVEs would be better so I'm all for it! I'm sure there are a very large number of people who either are for it or don't care one way or the other who aren't posting here. Why else would this not be the first discussion about the idea?

Anyway, I think CCP in a way does charge admission. You do have to have an active account to make replies after all. An, in a roundabout way, I'm getting paid for it too by adding potential value to EVE. Everyone wins!
'Taking a controversial viewpoint' does not involve repeating points which have already been countered and ignoring inconvenient facts. The reason this topic keeps coming up, like so many others, is because of people wandering into EVE without really knowing anything about it and naively making suggestions like this. And trolls of course. Always the trolls. Like you.

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.05.01 01:37:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
'Taking a controversial viewpoint' does not involve repeating points which have already been countered and ignoring inconvenient facts. The reason this topic keeps coming up, like so many others, is because of people wandering into EVE without really knowing anything about it and naively making suggestions like this. And trolls of course. Always the trolls. Like you.

Most of the points I've made here have not been effectively countered or supported with facts. Sure people offer opinions and they're welcome to do so since even opinions that don't have any kind of backup are welcome, but at the moment, the debate is just opinion of what would be a better world on all sides. And I'm not a troll. I'm involving the community in a useful discussion.Razz

failpirate
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.05.01 01:45:00 - [137]
 

you guys are still talking about this? look, op is right. adapt or die. the end.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.01 01:47:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
Most of the points I've made here have not been effectively countered or supported with facts.
People have gone into far more detail on how your idea will not work than you have into how it will work.

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.05.01 01:50:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Kallieah
Most of the points I've made here have not been effectively countered or supported with facts.
People have gone into far more detail on how your idea will not work than you have into how it will work.


Based on what supporting data though? I'm not seeing how their guesses are any more or less valid that yours, mine, or that wacko that just posted about adapting or dying. Only a few people have offered really sensible alternatives and one even explained specific mechanics which, I think, was a fantastic idea that I never got around to replying to again...I've been meaning to also.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:05:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
I'm not seeing how their guesses are any more or less valid that yours, mine
a) Not based around the assumption that lag is a solvable problem
b) Don't predicate their ideas on destroying the game
c) Multiple independent mutually inclusive projections rather than the single "less population less lag lol"

Off the top of my head.

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:13:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
a) Not based around the assumption that lag is a solvable problem
b) Don't predicate their ideas on destroying the game
c) Multiple independent mutually inclusive projections rather than the single "less population less lag lol"


Lag isn't a solvable problem. From a computer's NIC to the ISP and through any router in between into the server farm there's potential for dropped packets or data corruption. That doesn't even include the software code of the client, the server side game engine, or the underlying OS or hardware of the platform on either side. Then there's the fact that it all exists inside a shared database that's maintained by a clustered system. Last I heard that was a Microsoft SQL product, but that was years ago so who knows what's happened since then. So no, lag isn't something that can or will be solved. It must be managed. (Meh, technical silliness again.)

My idea doesn't destroy the game, rather it vastly expands its potential by allowing the community to grow endlessly without technological limitations that are currently keeping people from doing what they want with their shovel and bucket in the sandbox.

Point C doesn't make sense. Can you expand on that a bit?

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:21:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
My idea doesn't destroy the game, rather it vastly expands its potential by allowing the community to grow endlessly without technological limitations that are currently keeping people from doing what they want with their shovel and bucket in the sandbox.
Growing the community is pointless if it is split up. CCP would get more money of course, but the players would never see the benefit.
What is achieved by lifting technological limitations if you add much more severe design limitations in the process?

Originally by: Kallieah
Point C doesn't make sense. Can you expand on that a bit?
Read back over the thread. The cases against your idea are numerous and well thought out. Your idea, on the other hand, is tantamount to 'turn off the server, no lag'.

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:24:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Read back over the thread. The cases against your idea are numerous and well thought out. Your idea, on the other hand, is tantamount to 'turn off the server, no lag'.


I never said there weren't, but many of them are not very well thought out.

Also, you didn't mention anything about lag management. Do you have any thoughts you can add regarding the network or the database?

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:30:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
not very well thought out
That's kind of the theme you set for this thread though isn't it?

Originally by: Kallieah
Also, you didn't mention anything about lag management. Do you have any thoughts you can add regarding the network or the database?
You don't expect me to engage in serious discussion in this joke of a thread do you?

AdmiralJohn
Gallente
Origin of Sanshaa
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:34:00 - [145]
 

Thread needs more hacking Russians and PL, IMO.

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:34:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
That's kind of the theme you set for this thread though isn't it?

You don't expect me to engage in serious discussion in this joke of a thread do you?


I asked for people's thoughts, including yours since you're here posting which means you feel strongly enough to offer your opinion. That's great! Just do it constructively and people will listen to what you have to say! Very Happy

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:41:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
Just do it constructively and people will listen to what you have to say
You are not listening to anyone.

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:45:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Kallieah
Just do it constructively and people will listen to what you have to say
You are not listening to anyone.


I am too! Nyah!

In all seriousness, I'm listening to you right now and I want you to contribute in a valuable manner!

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:48:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Kallieah
I am too! Nyah!

In all seriousness, I'm listening to you right now and I want you to contribute in a valuable manner!
The only constructive contribution would be to stop posting in this thread. Observe:

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.05.01 03:01:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Kallieah
I am too! Nyah!

In all seriousness, I'm listening to you right now and I want you to contribute in a valuable manner!
The only constructive contribution would be to stop posting in this thread. Observe:


I'll miss you Crumple! And no matter how we feel about this stuff, I still think you're a great guy for all the other things you do in the forum so thanks for dropping in your ideas!


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