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Cyndain
Posted - 2010.04.29 20:37:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Cyndain
Unless I am miss understanding, you select the resource IN to the warehouse

"in" without "to". Select resource that actually present, rather than one routed to storage.
Preferably, select resource with present amount exceed the capacity of a destination.

Quote:
If I create a partial amount route, there is nothing that I could see to distinquish the original source in from the route out.

That's because there's nothing to see, that's why you don't see anything.
Your assumption, that incoming and outgoing routes are depends on eachother is not true.



Ahh Ok, I see what you mean there, however, it is entirly possible to set up routes before any resource enters your warehouse. I select an IN route, and create an OUT route based on that number. I will have to play around with it a bit more once I get home from work..

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.04.29 21:25:00 - [182]
 

It seems that the routes auto adjust now,

the reason for sending less than the max to a point is in case your forgoing useing storage and sending directly to a given processor so if you have say 5 extractors drawing and want to feed say 3 processors you can say ok

E 1 goes to P1
E2 gets split between P1 and P2
E3 goes to P2
E4 is split between P2 and P3
E5 goes entirely to P3

oh look I have enough to build an extra extractor, so that one will be spit between the P1 2 and 3 because they have extra capacity

Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.29 21:52:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Originally by: Cyndain
It is difficult to manage routing resources from a warehouse to multiple processors. Lets say you have 8 extractors on a planet, all routed to one warehouse. You want to supply 4 processors with materials. Unless I am miss understanding, you select the resource IN to the warehouse, and create the rout OUT to the processor. You have to do this 8 times, one for each extractor, leaving you with a mess in the routes window (which I couldnt resize by the way).

You create 8 routes into storage (1 per extractor), and 4 routes to the processor (1 per processor). Wait until there is enough stuff in storage for 1 processor before routing it to processors.


The problem here is that you have to wait 15 minutes to get some stuff into your processor.
A consolidated view of what comes in and goes out of a storage facility would be very nice. a bit like the window for expidited transfers.
So you can see on one side a list of what goes in, and howmuch, howmuch is stored in the middle, and what goes out on a view on the right.

Some more suggestions:
- The ability to route a fixed amount would be nice too, you can expidate transfer, but then you already have to have the materials in stock, routing a fixed future amount would be usefull for planning ahead. so I can say.. do 2 runs of making toxic metals, while my store of base metals builds up, then do 2 runs of reactive metals, etc. without losing materials if I chance schematics or decomission a processor.

- A possibility to upgrade your command center without losing the whole colony.

- When you hover over a pin or link, see what is routed which way, or what is produced.

- Make all windows resizable and conform to the normal UI windows for the rest of the game. Right now they're a pain to see everything properly.

- Instead of buying and decommissioning the whole installations, maybe it would also be a nice idea to have these as actual items you have to either send down and deploy, or buy once and deploy. So you can buy an extractor for say, 140.000 ISK, and deploy it for another 10.000 ISK. When the place it's been put is empty, instead of the decomission, simply repack it, and deploy at another location for 10.000 ISK.
While it's not deployed, it would take up room ofcourse in a storage facility or in your PCC.

- An overview system for the various tiers of production and their material costs. Like the certificates view, so if you want to build wetware mainframes for instance, you get a breakdown of what you need to make one, and what you need to make the stuff to make it etc.. down to the base materials. Right now, everyone and their dog that has any excel skills is making sheets for this, i've seen and downloaded a whole bunch, some good, some less good, I've done a little tinkering myself as well, having this in the game would be very usefull, as it will make it a little easier for newbies to see what they want to and can do. It wouldn't matter much to more experienced players, since if it didn't exist in the game, they'd have such a reporting tool outside the game, either build as an excel sheet, or some application.

- An API on what your planets are doing would be nice too, giving full information on what everythign is doing ( and how it's connected and routed, so you can make proper reporting tools for planetary production, something that is non-existant in the current system, but would take a LOT of time to do properly, I'm working on writing a reporting design myself for it, and it is quite a project )

- Planetary reentry modules instead of customs offices, so you can send stuff down to any planet by orbitting it and launching some kind of rocket carrying your goods to your launchpad.
(tbc in next post.. ;))

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.04.29 21:56:00 - [184]
 

@Sicardae Bad'ia

1. The problem what I see: You can build several (lets say 3) groups of Storage + Extractor + Basic Processor at any distance of command center (with Spaceport and Advanced Processor). You'll have to have reserve CPU/Powergrid to single (longest) Spaceport - Storage link. Wait for Storage to partially fill with materials, then create new link, expedite to Spaceport, destroy link, repeat. Creating link cost nothing. Long link can easily consume 3000MW on large planets. Storage consume only 600MW, and can easily hold several days worth of production of 2nd tier materials. (You'll probably have to set new deposit anyway)

2. Doesn't seem to be true. Test case: Storage filled with materials. Outgoing route to basic processor at 1000/6000. Fills only 1000 per tick. But I'll test this with extractor, just in case.

3 and 4. Imagine: You've got 6h worth of constant production chain A1 -> A2 and 7h of chain B1 -> B2. You plant to produce A2 + B2 -> AB3 during night (8h or later). After that you plant to change A2 + B2 -> AB3 to something else. The problem is: when you wake up, processor is full B2, but you've got no A2. Your only option is
a) waste B2
b) get some units of A2 and wait a cycle.

5. In this case there is a workaround. But imagine you've got several routes from extractors and outgoing to single processor. Creating single route is much more convenient that several.

Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.29 22:01:00 - [185]
 

- Planetary reentry modules
The office is a nice idea, but it's THE place for suicide ganking, and piracy. While I can see the fun in a little danger from pirates, I find it a little odd that a customs office is not guarded, also you pay through the nose for sending large amounts down to the planet with it.
A planetary reentry module would be an interesting addition I think. You deploy the module from your cargo, fill it up with your goods from the cargo, then order it to descend.
It will take you some time to do this, giving pirates a chance to nab you and intercept your goods, and it would be a good alternative for planets that don't have a customs office. Ofcourse this module needs to be built/bought and is not reusable so it will still cost you money to send stuff down just like in the customs office. Maybe a combination of roid stuff for the ship, and things like rocket fuel to make?
The office could still be used ofcourse, but have gun emplacements around it, to scare of would be pirates and gankers, so it's 'safer', but also probably more expensive than the module and a good way for newbies to do things.
Such a module would also tie in with having to build/buy buildings for the place in space stations, and sending them down.


Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.04.29 22:11:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 29/04/2010 22:19:45
Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: Tonto Auri
I was meaning exactly this. Real example, where'd you need to route less than what processor could accept? My imagination failing at this.


Ah, I see what you mean. The basic idea behind ratio based routing (from the storage unit) is to mitigate the variable amount of incoming materials from the extractors and routing them to processors


"processors" is what I can't imagine. Example, please?
The only remotely possible example of this could be is if i'm running a Stage2+ colony, which is easily solved by building one more storage in addition to the launchpad and splitting goods according to my building plan. I mean, i'd really need more storage space, if I want my processors work any reasonable amount of time without intervention.
There's no need to for additional functionality, when issue could be solved by clever management.

Originally by: Cyndain
Ahh Ok, I see what you mean there, however, it is entirly possible to set up routes before any resource enters your warehouse. I select an IN route, and create an OUT route based on that number. I will have to play around with it a bit more once I get home from work..


I know, what you mean, but honestly, it's not the best way of doing this. Rather, it's an imposed restriction from bogus realization.

Originally by: Lumy
5. In this case there is a workaround. But imagine you've got several routes from extractors and outgoing to single processor. Creating single route is much more convenient that several.



Erm, route output from processor back to same storage, eh?...

Originally by: Xearal
The problem here is that you have to wait 15 minutes to get some stuff into your processor.


It's not a problem...

JTK Fotheringham
Dashavatara
Posted - 2010.04.29 23:07:00 - [187]
 

So, I've been running a colony on Aclan II for a couple of days. Today, "There is a problem accessing Aclan II". All other planets in local are fine to access. Anyone else having this problem?

Also, I had a whole bunch of bug reports when I started the client. Repair tool fixed them, but there was a windows patch today... not sure if there were any conflicts.

suun Leeh
Posted - 2010.04.29 23:07:00 - [188]
 

I love the planetary interaction with the exception of one thing. There is no way to move a item after you place it. The does not make sense. There needs to be a way to move a extractor or any of the other items after being placed. I mean we have to pay isk to create them and do not get a refund when we decommission them.

Please make this change.

Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
Posted - 2010.04.30 00:05:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: suun Leeh
I love the planetary interaction with the exception of one thing. There is no way to move a item after you place it. The does not make sense. There needs to be a way to move a extractor or any of the other items after being placed. I mean we have to pay isk to create them and do not get a refund when we decommission them.

Please make this change.


I don't get your reasoning here. Are you saying that after you built a static structure such as an extractor (with possibly a big friggin' hole drilled into the planets crust) it should "just" be a matter of moving that structure about as you see fit? If anything that should be a lot more expensive than just putting explosives under the one you have and setting up a new one someplace else.
It's not like we just move our extraction business in real life whenever we run into a snag. All the abandoned hardware around the globe is proof of that.

I'd say keep it as it is because it's simpler in a development sense and it makes people think before just setting up a strip mining operation that would last 30 minutes and cost them twice as much to set up than they would make off the stuff they extracted.

Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.04.30 00:44:00 - [190]
 

Ok sooo... I know I have a few planets seeded with structures. I kinda have an idea on what systems they are in. Is there a quick and easy way to figure out where my stuff is? Is there an asset tab that shows structures on planet (like assets in space) or a journal tab that points out what planets you have occupied?

Trimutius III
Avalon Guards
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.04.30 01:06:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
Ok sooo... I know I have a few planets seeded with structures. I kinda have an idea on what systems they are in. Is there a quick and easy way to figure out where my stuff is? Is there an asset tab that shows structures on planet (like assets in space) or a journal tab that points out what planets you have occupied?

Yeah there is...

Science & Industry... In Planets tab...

Sierra Astrome
Posted - 2010.04.30 01:10:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: Sierra Astrome on 30/04/2010 12:42:14
Edited by: Sierra Astrome on 30/04/2010 12:41:09
Ok, here we go...

I was looking forward to PI since a very long time, current PI looked like it had potential in the beginning but after spending 1 night on it, it totally turned me off.

Now, I know that it's hardly half way done, and there will be more after the expansion, and I am very aware of the challenges and difficulties of game developing because I was training to be a game developer myself.

here is how it goes:

1- it's an OCEAN of clicking the same things, make 70 pins over a few planets, then survey/link/route every single time, it's too cumbersome, boring and irritating.

suggestion:
a- simplify the clicking, and let the player be able to group extractors (e.g all 10 extractors harvesting bla bla gas grouped together (actual linking?), so select 1 extractor and all the others copy it.
different numbers for resources per cycle? not a problem, the player should see the sum of the total of all extractors per cycle/duration from the main extractor.
if someone wants different time intervals they can make different groups.

b- make the time intervals at least double the current ones, current time intervals are too short, even 24 hours is short, the amount of clicking to re-extract alone is a torture.

c- make levels of extractors, like L2 extractor = equivalent of 2x L1 extractor, L5/L10 extractor = equivalent of 5/10 L1 extractor, this way the player doesn't have to put 30 extractors and have to survey/link/route 30 times every 30 mins or 24 hours.

2- it is totally un-engaging, the player is just putting circles on a bigger circle, like 5 years old games, this is very disappointing and doesn't fit the standards of eve, in fact there is NO game play in it.
with POS the player at least has solid visual representations of what we're doing, they see the modules, they move to access them and so on.

Suggestions:
a- Minimum is to replace the circles with the actual models, real textured models like other objects in eve.

b- If you want to make it an engaging experience then the players must be able to sense the environment and interact with and within it! I am aware that eve doesn't contain planet environments, however, I believe environments are developed in DUST 514, it might be worth some consideration or thought.

The environments that players colonize must be touchable, they must land on the colony in order to manage it, see the real environment of the planet, decide there where to place different structures, and see the actual structures.

3- this might be the most important one: Tyrannis without tyranny? and the teaser "how will you rule?"!!
if the player is not going to have any of the promised aspects in the teaser and name, then at least change them!

let the player costumize how colony functions, such as deciding what method of transportation to use, trucks, cars, ships, or planes?
slow gallente planetary vehicles with large cargo, or fast minmatar pickup trucks? perhaps amarr ships?

These are goods already in existance but not put to good use, PI is an opportunity to make use of them, and it's not hard to add some more goods.

What does a colony need to survive in terms of population?
at basics, food, water, vaccines, oxygen, accommodation, transport and security forces which keep order and push people to work harder if the capsuleer wishes so.

now, what if it's a gallentean population?
they need the above + some luxury, like holoreels, diary products, consumer electronics, soft drinks, maybe they want some drugs too? like normal crash and drop?.

Amarr colony? then they bring slaves, with that they need to bring slavers and slave control equipment.


I think I already said a lot, I'll save the rest of my energy because I am not sure anyone of importance is bothering to read it in the first place.

Peace.

edit: made the key points in bold.

Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.04.30 01:27:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Trimutius III
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
Ok sooo... I know I have a few planets seeded with structures. I kinda have an idea on what systems they are in. Is there a quick and easy way to figure out where my stuff is? Is there an asset tab that shows structures on planet (like assets in space) or a journal tab that points out what planets you have occupied?

Yeah there is...

Science & Industry... In Planets tab...


Excellent, thank you.

Circumstantial Evidence
Posted - 2010.04.30 02:41:00 - [194]
 

The tyranny of it all - is that all participating capsuleers will be the tyrants. We shall drop down extractors on countless worlds, choosing the most resource-rich locations without regard to environmental effects and native populations. We are insulated from our actions by this abstract UI, with the profit motive as our faithful guide. I predict some interesting SCOPE articles. Smile

Probonnie
Posted - 2010.04.30 03:20:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Circumstantial Evidence
The tyranny of it all - is that all participating capsuleers will be the tyrants. We shall drop down extractors on countless worlds, choosing the most resource-rich locations without regard to environmental effects and native populations. We are insulated from our actions by this abstract UI, with the profit motive as our faithful guide. I predict some interesting SCOPE articles. Smile


Really to the point I think!! Most of the planets will be populated with imported labor. We have speculated on what the effect of dropping a load of militants into someone elses colony would be.

I'm a high sec player and really would like to see the resource distribution on planets be a little more concentrated. Higher Highs and lower lows. It could make the problem of maintaining control a little more pointed.

nether void
Caldari
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.04.30 04:59:00 - [196]
 

Would be nice to be able to cancel the currently selected rate of extraction. Will allow for people with weird schedules to be able to set say 24 hours, but update it in 20. Or maybe just have a couple more choices. Maybe:

0.5 hours
2 hours
5 hours
15 hours
24 hours
40 hours
95 hours

Adoria Aeternitas
Posted - 2010.04.30 05:14:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Sierra Astrome
Ok, here we go...

I was looking forward to PI since a very long time, current PI looked like it had potential in the beginning but after spending 1 night on it, it totally turned me off.

Now, I know that it's hardly half way done, and there will be more after the expansion, and I am very aware of the challenges and difficulties of game developing because I was training to be a game developer myself.

here is how it goes:

1- it's an OCEAN of clicking the same things, make 70 pins over a few planets, then survey/link/route every single time, it's too cumbersome, boring and irritating.

suggestion:
a- simplify the clicking, and let the player be able to group extractors (e.g all 10 extractors harvesting bla bla gas grouped together (actual linking?), so select 1 extractor and all the others copy it.
different numbers for resources per cycle? not a problem, the player should see the sum of the total of all extractors per cycle/duration from the main extractor.
if someone wants different time intervals they can make different groups.

b- make the time intervals at least double the current ones, current time intervals are too short, even 24 hours is short, the amount of clicking to re-extract alone is a torture.

c- make levels of extractors, like L2 extractor = equivalent of 2x L1 extractor, L5/L10 extractor = equivalent of 5/10 L1 extractor, this way the player doesn't have to put 30 extractors and have to survey/link/route 30 times every 30 mins or 24 hours.

2- it is totally un-engaging, the player is just putting circles on a bigger circle, like 5 years old games, this is very disappointing and doesn't fit the standards of eve, in fact there is hardly any game play in it.
with POS the player at least has solid visual representations of what we're doing, they see the modules, they move to access them and so on.

Suggestions:
a- Minimum is to replace the circles with the actual models, real textured models like other objects in eve.

b- If you want to make it an engaging experience then the players must be able to sense the environment and interact with and within it! I am aware that eve doesn't contain planet environments, however, I believe environments are developed in DUST 514, it might be worth some consideration or thought.

The environments that players colonize must be touchable, they must land on the colony in order to manage it, see the real environment of the planet, decide there where to place different structures, and see the actual structures.

c- this might be the most important one: Tyrannis without tyranny? and the teaser "how will you rule?"!!
if the player is not going to have any of the promised aspects in the teaser and name, then at least change them!
...



/signed

... I expected Planetary Interaction to be more like a mixture of Command & Conquer and Tower Defence or something like that.

PI delivers a huge load of reactions and products but there is no gameplay in it. If players will end up doing nothing but clicking 90 extractors every day ... then they will get bored soon.

You really need to add more complexity to the gameplay.

For example
  • create a more complex building-tree so that you need to build some living quarters and a school in order to create a factory ... just think of games like age of empires or sim city.


  • Give us ground vehicles like a mobile resource scanner which you can send to a certain place and start scanning for resources


  • give us some mobile harvester (mining drones) to send into an area to harvest for 30 minutes instead of building an extractor which will only last 30 minutes


  • add pollution caused by factories which spreads out over the planet and damages your infrastructure ... you could then send heavy repairdrones down to the planet to repair your stuff.


... please make PI more challenging in terms of gameplay !







Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2010.04.30 05:31:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Tamahra on 30/04/2010 05:32:36


Quote:


  • Give us ground vehicles like a mobile resource scanner which you can send to a certain place and start scanning for resources


  • give us some mobile harvester (mining drones) to send into an area to harvest for 30 minutes instead of building an extractor which will only last 30 minutes


  • add pollution caused by factories which spreads out over the planet and damages your infrastructure ... you could then send heavy repairdrones down to the planet to repair your stuff.





these ideas have potential. And they dont interfere with dust. Its clear that we cant have an rts style gameplay on planets for combat activities since dust will cover that. but introducing non-combat related vehicles for game play reasons wouldnt harm the gameplay

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.04.30 07:43:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: nether void
Would be nice to be able to cancel the currently selected rate of extraction. Will allow for people with weird schedules to be able to set say 24 hours, but update it in 20. Or maybe just have a couple more choices. Maybe:

<numbers snipped>


I'd propose that there would be only one deposit and a slider that lets you define how fast you want to extract it and the faster you extract it, the more you waste of the deposit. In effect this would mirror the choices we have now, only with a full fluid control over how long you want the deposit to last or control over the exact amounts you extract per cycle.

I would like see a option to cancel extraction, too, should you get back home early or have schedule changes.

menacemyth
Minmatar
Onyx Brotherhood
STR8NGE BREW
Posted - 2010.04.30 09:02:00 - [200]
 

Edited by: menacemyth on 30/04/2010 09:07:51
Originally by: Lumy


3. It would be nice to have option to set max TOTAL amount (or number of cycles) of material to be transferred by route.
4. And ability to withdraw ingredients from processor back to storage, in case you want to decommission it or change schematics.
5. Storage facilities need option to set up route, even if they don't have material for processor. Waiting for cycle to finish is annoying.


/signed

Point number 3 is particularly problematic when producing tier 3 and 4 stuff. But it shouldn't be configured to set the number of cycles routed, but number of cycles produced. Default maybe indefinite. After production stops all incoming materials get rerouted to sender.

I'm sure the code will get a little complicated this way but it'll be worth it imo.

Oh, almost forgot, we really really really need to be able to survey deposits before we build the extractors. They are too expensive to build, and sometimes you need to see if what you can harvest is worth the cpu/power to link all the way there. Hypothetically, it may be more economical to harvest a lesser deposit that is closer because you can get more extractors, but it would be too costly to find out the way it is now. M

H3llHound
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.04.30 09:49:00 - [201]
 

Can the devs please add the option to remove any lighting onto planets while in PI mode. Its very hard finding the white spots on a white gasgiant that highly illuminated by the sun.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.04.30 10:27:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
"processors" is what I can't imagine. Example, please?
The only remotely possible example of this could be is if i'm running a Stage2+ colony, which is easily solved by building one more storage in addition to the launchpad and splitting goods according to my building plan. I mean, i'd really need more storage space, if I want my processors work any reasonable amount of time without intervention.
There's no need to for additional functionality, when issue could be solved by clever management.


Simple arbitrary example :

4 Reactive Gas Extractor - combined total output 5000 reactive gas/15min cycle (all extractors synchronized)
1 Gas Storage - 2 individual routes to processors (5000 each)
2 Basic Industry Processor (Oxidizing Compound) - consumes 6000 reactive gas/30min cycle EACH

With proper preferential routing, after 30mins, you'd expect 1 Processor to start work while storage unit piles up the excess 4000 reactive gas into the same processor's empty ingredients buffer. After 45 mins, the ingredients buffer in the first processor is full and the excess 3000 reactive gas is routed to to the second processor.

Continuing onwards, you have 1 processor working full time while the second processor acts as backup to soak up excess materials - whether sourced from extractors or from orbit. Without preferential routing, your timings will be completely off and when you scale this up to 10-20 PINS, it becomes a huge pain in the proverbial behind. You will need to do massive amount of daft routing micromanagement.

The current V4 iteration does 2 things (as far as I can tell), it randomly routes to whichever processor as the materials arrive and most importantly, excess materials from all extractors and processors are continuously routed and burned off when the ingredient buffer is full. The latter is a glaring issue that needs to be corrected.

Yes, I know, there are plenty of workarounds to get around the problem, not withstanding my stand on manual routing as a whole (which should be thrown into the dustbin). However, the whole point is, there is a functionality deficiency at hand - ignoring it or working around it won't make it go away.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.04.30 13:45:00 - [203]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 30/04/2010 14:08:17
Originally by: Adoria Aeternitas
Originally by: Sierra Astrome
Ok, here we go...



/signed


Just don't do it, then? If you so displeased.
For me, aside small issues that could be fixed easily (i.e. transport prices, uneeded excess of submit buttons, inability to cancel current job cycle) it all well tied together, and timings in general is very well thought out. 30 min for active management, 5 hours for overday/night setup, 24 hours (must be 20 hours really) for casual play, 3 days for more casual.

Originally by: Sturmwolke
Simple arbitrary example :
[snip]


I don't agree with you on exact definition, what is optimal/inoptimal, but the fact clear that current system has certain deficiencies.

I'll list some, let's see what people think about them.

1. Routings from PIN's without inner storage (Extractors, Processors) and the consequent ability to start job without routing destination, leading to imminent waste of materials.
2. Apparent randomness of outgoing routes.
3. Frustrating abundance of submits. (Noone likes stupid computers, right?)
4. Partially dependent on #3, inability to stop current job.
5. Just thought about it, inability to return materials from processor. If you decide to stop current job, you loose twice as much (tops) materials.
6. 24h deposits driving people further and further off their timeframe.

I see all of them as minor issues in terms of fixing, but #1 and #3 in particular is extremely annoying to deal in current implementation.
And, well, can't resist to post my suggested fix.
#1 Don't start cycle unless an outgoing route is defined, don't ask for routing quantity for producing PIN's, don't limit routing quantity from storage PIN's. I want to route 6k to processor because it can accept 6k, not because I have 6k...
#2 Maintain routing preferences by the time of their creation. ezmode, rly.
#3 Just freakin' remove all submit buttons except one on the left.
#4 Make it so?
#5 Just remove quantity from ALL routes. Only define what should be routed, how much - the target know. Ask it.
#6 22h or 20h deposit would be okay.

Jongo Fett
Caldari
Save Yourself Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.30 13:55:00 - [204]
 

One thing that is much needed and most likely mentioned here before is the ability to group extractors, its brutally painful to go through a planet of extractors resetting them all.

Just the ability to set them all on the same time schedule would be amazing, with the total output they produce.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.04.30 14:11:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Jongo Fett
One thing that is much needed and most likely mentioned here before is the ability to group extractors, its brutally painful to go through a planet of extractors resetting them all.

Just the ability to set them all on the same time schedule would be amazing, with the total output they produce.


You are making wrong conclusions from right source data.
It's not going through extracts painful, it's clicking submit button each time is painful...
And they are all on the same schedule - they won't start until you submit on the left.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2010.04.30 14:19:00 - [206]
 

I noticed some inconsistent behaviour of the ui items: "expedited transfer" for example is executed immediately, other commands are queued and goes into action when pushing the "submit" button.

Also:
1) It would be good to see on the planetary view which buildings has some commands queued. Easy to forget that when you have to click through tons of extractors.

2) It would be good to see on the planetary view which buildings do what. Hoovering the mouse of the extractor should show what it extracts. Hoovering the mouse of processors should show the schematics. And so on.

3) We should be able to select several extractors at once (ctlr-click, drag a frame armound them, whatever) and then execute the same command on all those selected extractors: survey -> select deposit (30m, 5h, etc.) should make all the selected extractors extract from the scanned deposit with the given same speed. Same with the route command.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.04.30 14:55:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
.. several things on routing ..


It's a matter of perception. Issues that may look minor to designers can be game breaking to players, when they run it day in and day out. Designers may design something that they think will work out great, but when you actually get down in the trenches and run things for extended periods, all those niggling inadequacies surfaces.

I doubt if any of them spend serious time to run things through like a normal players do and tbh, I didn't even spend more than a few hrs on SISI to run PI tests to notice the glaring inadequacies. It's just the tip of the iceberg. Frankly, I'm not here to argue about how things will be fixed, I'm returning feedback to CCP telling them they still have a lot of issues unfixed for a half-decent release so that they won't have GD spammed with a lot of negative posts when they release this.

P.S I'm somewhat perplexed by your "Submit" button issue because I don't really have an issue with it. Are you clicking Submit after every one change?

Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.30 15:09:00 - [208]
 


1. I have to agree with many others that:

Quote:
I'd propose that there would be only one deposit and a slider that lets you define how fast you want to extract it and the faster you extract it, the more you waste of the deposit.


2. Also I suggest giving the extractors a visible mining radius, in which it will extract the resources. In this radius allow no other structure to be placed and the radius's can't come into contact.

3. Also as for moving resources, that is just a waste of server processing power.

4. As for export tax, I love the concept, but should it be based upon the security rating of the system? Just multiply the security rating of the system by 10 to get the export tax. Null sec shouldn't have export taxes, while high sec can do with 10 isk.


Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.04.30 15:13:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: Tonto Auri
.. several things on routing ..


It's a matter of perception. Issues that may look minor to designers can be game breaking to players, when they run it day in and day out. Designers may design something that they think will work out great, but when you actually get down in the trenches and run things for extended periods, all those niggling inadequacies surfaces.

I said "minor" from programmatical point. Or, if that clearer for you, "realization".
Game designers widely known for inadequacy... idealists much.

Quote:
I doubt if any of them spend serious time to run things through like a normal players do


This.

Quote:
tbh, I didn't even spend more than a few hrs on SISI to run PI tests to notice the glaring inadequacies.

Hours? It took me 30 minutes.
Quote:
P.S I'm somewhat perplexed by your "Submit" button issue because I don't really have an issue with it. Are you clicking Submit after every one change?

Plural "Buttons". ONE button at left is enough, no need to confirm every action that will be AGAIN confirmed afterward.
Especially if there's additional checks imposed (CPU/PG/destination can't accept source).

Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
Posted - 2010.04.30 15:33:00 - [210]
 

Edited by: Amida Ta on 30/04/2010 15:36:21
Here my feedback for v4:

1) The difference in extraction rates between highsec and nullsec is FAR to big (I already commented about it here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1309730).
It could be 10% difference, it could be 20% if you want it to be high and it could even be 50% difference if you wanted it to be extremely high, but 500+% is rediculous.

2) The amount of work to keep PI working (for the highest extraction rate) is enormous: Taking a single survey for resources takes about 15sec. You can have 6 Planets which each approx. 15 extractor = 90 extractors total. At 15sec per extractor that means that you are clicking for 22,5 minutes EACH 30 minutes. So basically at the highest extraction rate this is a 23/7 job clicking on three buttons. This is obviously not fun.

3) The extraction amounts seem to be generally low (or t1 consumption rates too high). Especially when assuming that in the medium term most people will likely take 1d extraction times (unless point 2 gets changed somehow).

4) At current prices (hard to predict how they will change) recovering the cost of one extractor, basic processor and a storage unit (not counting the command center) creating t1 products will take far over a year. This is far too long (especially when taking into account the time spend to click on extractors).


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