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Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.08.04 19:09:00 - [421]
 

Originally by: Voith

Right, I forgot the obvious "Because you're horrible players" angle.

If you want local free blob free gameplay go to a wormhole.



Well if I were you I would not go for personnal attack, simply because it make you lose all your credibility


If I were to link my eve-arena and my battleclinic rank(both extremly good), you would say such thing does not reflect player quality.

If I were to link you to my bomber thread and setups(One of the current most read and troll free on ships and modules - you can eve search it using "valadeya"), you would say that its pure theorycrafting and EFT-warrrior tactics and that such thing does not work in eve, and does not make anyone a good pilot

If I were to suggest that perhaps, current layout in 0.0 is correct and that I dont mind blobbing and local as long as I can use the tactic that I develloped in my years of pvp to counter, you would surely say that I am a afk cloaker and that I am scared of real pvp hiding behind a cloak.


What I do suggest is that the current layout of 0.0, and from most recent CMS , CCP agree, is not promoting fun gameplay and teamwork because intel gathering is reduced to local reading, and that any kind of surprise attack is almost impossible.

Valadeya

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.04 19:37:00 - [422]
 

Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras

A big stinking pile of bullsh*t...



For all of your BS and complaining about being forced to deal with Blobs every time you want to fight, you should look at the habits of your cloaky gankers...

"Furious Ratter"


<sarcasm>
Within that list is a fine representative example of the type of combat this poor pilot is FORCED to do because she can't find combat without being blobbed:
I was forced to blob!
</sarcasm >

19 on 1 carrier, and you brought 4 capitals (including a mothership). Yet, you have the gall to come in here and tell us about how horrible blobby 0.0 combat is, eh? (extra laughs for the fact that the NPC rats outdamaged everyone but your mothership) I personally don't care if you bring 50 or 100 to a badger kill... just don't come in here telling us that blobs or local are forcing you to cloak.




Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.08.04 20:12:00 - [423]
 

Edited by: Valadeya uthanaras on 04/08/2010 20:17:26
I understand your rage against "furious ratter", but you need to know that its an alt that was specificly made to:

A) Make local using people rage by staying cloaked in local "aka afk cloaker"
B) While doing A) find ratting/plexing battleship and bigger to drop for a gank or "black ops drops"
Arrowdefinition of gank include use of overwhelming force to swiftly dispose of a target

These are gank tactic and are only meant to disrupt operation and destroy asset, while hopefully getting shiny tears and loot


secondly, the rats outdamaging the rest of the ships is there because rats damage are recorded previously to the fight, and those damage can be recorde for the course of 30+ minutes prior to the actual kill.

Also notice that those damage are comming from rats in a anomaly, mean the carrier was caught "running sanctums" ,and carrier are not npcing ships. It is done because of the relative extreme safety of current 0.0

The 20 to 1 ratio versus a carrier is mainly because: we dont know previouly to dropping if carrier is a bait (running anomaly and staying in it with red in local .... high chance it is)

If its not a bait but with friend in local, to ensure its swift destruction before reinforcement can show up, or if reinforcement show up before its destruction , to have enought firepower to deal with it.

20 people is not HARD for any decent 0.0 entity to assemble in a minute to come to the rescue of a carrier, especially if there is a potential supercarrier kill EmbarassedEmbarassed

Dont get me wrong, I understand your anger toward "furious ratter", because he was specificaly made to ensure such responce and anger Twisted Evil

as for what I previously said being not thruthful ... go and check it ... you might learn a bitLaughing

edited type

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.04 21:11:00 - [424]
 

Let's cut the **** and pare this down from walls of rambling text into a coherent thread, shall we?

Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras

I afk-cloak because it is the only viable way to handle you blobby BLAST cowards!



Originally by: Mackenna

But here's a whole list of killmails showing that when you do cloak... you BLOB your kills...



Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras

It's different when I do it! Here, I'll prove it.. we even call it something else: ganking.



Are you with me?

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.08.04 21:16:00 - [425]
 

gj furios ratter

Brandrsun
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.04 22:54:00 - [426]
 

To summarise 15 pages of reply's

No.

/thread

Voith
Posted - 2010.08.05 07:36:00 - [427]
 

Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
Originally by: Voith

Right, I forgot the obvious "Because you're horrible players" angle.

If you want local free blob free gameplay go to a wormhole.



Well if I were you I would not go for personnal attack, simply because it make you lose all your credibility


If I were to link my eve-arena and my battleclinic rank(both extremly good), you would say such thing does not reflect player quality.

If I were to link you to my bomber thread and setups(One of the current most read and troll free on ships and modules - you can eve search it using "valadeya"), you would say that its pure theorycrafting and EFT-warrrior tactics and that such thing does not work in eve, and does not make anyone a good pilot

If I were to suggest that perhaps, current layout in 0.0 is correct and that I dont mind blobbing and local as long as I can use the tactic that I develloped in my years of pvp to counter, you would surely say that I am a afk cloaker and that I am scared of real pvp hiding behind a cloak.


What I do suggest is that the current layout of 0.0, and from most recent CMS , CCP agree, is not promoting fun gameplay and teamwork because intel gathering is reduced to local reading, and that any kind of surprise attack is almost impossible.

Valadeya


Or go to those 2500 0.0 systems where local doesn't work.

No one has given any answer as to why they just don't hit up wormholes instead of crying about local.

Lia'Vael
Caldari
Migrant Fleet
Posted - 2010.08.05 09:14:00 - [428]
 

Originally by: Voith
Or go to those 2500 0.0 systems where local doesn't work.

No one has given any answer as to why they just don't hit up wormholes instead of crying about local.


Originally by: Voith
Oh wait there isn't one that doesn't involve you being all "sckeered" of wormholes.


Voith your new argument (more like the whining of a small child) is just trying to incite an emotional response through deflection of the conversation, on the scale of trolling I grade it around a 2/10, I dont even see any effort put into it.

When did I ever say I was scared of wormholes? Never but I can say without a doubt you are afraid of wormholes or even the thought of no local. Face it you're a pathetic carebear thats afraid to lose local intel. I am WoW-tard #1 but you are just a pansy with no ability to think.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.08.05 10:00:00 - [429]
 

Originally by: Voith

No one has given any answer as to why they just don't hit up wormholes instead of crying about local.


you considered moving to an area, where afk cloaking doesnt make sense? say.. HIGH SEC?

Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.08.05 12:47:00 - [430]
 

Originally by: Voith


No one has given any answer as to why they just don't hit up wormholes instead of crying about local.


There is a lot of thing that make wormhole not so attractive for pvp:

1) Supply:

because of the way wormhole work, its relativly hard to handle supply of ammo, cap charge, bomb ...

You can never really know where your wormhole will link the next day so you need to have an alt dedicated to handling all supply. this is the complete opposite of 0.0, where handling supply is relativly easy, with npc station, well stock market ...

2) Delay between each system:

Because you dont know if someone is there as you get into a wormhole system (because of the lack of localVery Happy), you need to dedicate some time to look around system to find your target. While fun and challenging, if you add this delay with the delay of having to look for your next wormhole, you need to plan for a few hours ahead in the hope of hitting only a few system. if you are really unlucky, this mean you could spend entire night without seeing a single target, using most of your time to probe around.

3) Probe laucher:

To travel between wormhole system and to find target more quickly, a probe launcher is mandatory. This mean a lots of ship that dont have spare highs for a probe launcher: bomber, inty, most cruiser class ship ... cannot be effectivly used in wormhole because you will have to cripple your setup with a probe launcher.

Alternativly, this mean you need a probing dedicated pilot , and if your group is relativly small, you give up a lot of firepower just to be able to move around.

4) combine all these factor:

If you are a soloer, wormhole are unnatractive because of all the built in problem of supply and probing. those factor while making thing more interresting, were mostly added to wormhole to give more challenge for the vast PVE riches that can be made there

If you are in a group: you might spend an entire evening moving around between system without ever seeing a target, and will spend most time waiting for the prober to find the next wormhole entrance. Some people like this challenge and dont mind the wait, but some people dont ...




Now compare this with AFK cloaking:

1)you can be there without actually being there , meaning you can scare the carebear into staying docked because they are not skilled enought to know how to handle an hostile in local

2) because its 0.0 and its charted, you know which system, without even the use of local, that are most likely to have target: station system ...

this also mean that you know the way to most probable targets and can plan your travel accordingly.

3) Similar situation with supply, because of all the local market that are available quite rapidly, its easy to plan a small attack and when you lack ammo/bomb, to go back to ressuply. alternativly you can do shaddy business with the system dweller so they eject some goods from their local station in exhchange for "protection"

Finnaly afk cloaking does allow you to bypass most protection the local give atm .... so I guess the choice is relativly easy ... albeit, it would be ton more fun if there was no local or a delayed local in 0.0

Valadeya

Second Class
Posted - 2010.08.05 13:47:00 - [431]
 

OMG whine whine whine, this is all I hear in alliance there is a red in system he is cloaked boohoo I cant rat boohoo, I reply well take the fight to them they will soon get bored of a empty system, they reply boohoo sniff whine boohoo and sit in there pos.

Result I and the very very few people in alliance with any sense leave our system and join the battle, not long after no resident cloaky red.

Other alliance members sit in there posses boohooing all day long about how they cant rat boohoo whine dribble whine boohoo, result red still in system to the day making them cry.

So ask yourself this before you whine drivel cry moan, should you be in 0.0 space at all with the attitude that you think you can just rat/mine etc without any opposition even if that opposition is in a cloaky ship.

Or grow a pair and when they stop you ratting go spend some of that large ammount of isk you make at messing with them as I said they will soon leave system if it is empty.

And as for a monopoly on fear well thats YOU doing that to yourself no one holds a monopoly of fear over you if you can move system, so it is self inflicted fear and using harsh words like bullying just goes too show how much of a whining drivling crying bearing moaner you are that is trying to get a game mechaninc changed that doesnt need changing.

What needs changing is your attitude towards the space YOU ocupy but do not OWN, once you realise it isnt YOUR space no matter how many towers you put up or rats you kill you may start to realise that 0.0 is free for all. And maybe even then start joining alliance defence fleets instead of expecting everyone else to babysit/defend you all day long.

A good game mechanic would be if you dont move systems for a day you lose the right to post intel in cause its always just you and others like you moaning about how somone is in your system and please come and save me, and as soon as a CTA goes up you and many many other moaning whining bearing dribbling players like you dont join but then you will moan about how space is being lost.

If all you wanna do is rat 24/7 and moan/whine/dribble then go empire and mission run, instead of thinking your badass being in 0.0 when the reality is your made for empire e.g they can cloak up all day next to you in empire but you will feel safe.




Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.05 14:18:00 - [432]
 

Originally by: Second Class
OMG whine whine whine, this is all I hear in alliance there is a red in system he is cloaked boohoo I cant rat boohoo..... (ad nauseum)



Always entertaining to see someone hit reply to the first post, ignoring 15 pages of replies.


Second Class
Posted - 2010.08.05 14:36:00 - [433]
 

Originally by: Mackenna
Originally by: Second Class
OMG whine whine whine, this is all I hear in alliance there is a red in system he is cloaked boohoo I cant rat boohoo..... (ad nauseum)



Always entertaining to see someone hit reply to the first post, ignoring 15 pages of replies.




You really think I want to read 15 pages half of which is prolly drivel/trolls Rolling Eyes etc?. Maybe you have the time todo this spinning in your pos prolly replicating what I said in my post.

I replied to the op not to the 15 pages after if this is a crime may aswell delete the op after somone else gives there oppinion.

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.05 14:46:00 - [434]
 

Originally by: Second Class

Maybe you have the time todo this spinning in your pos prolly replicating what I said in my post.



...says the alt who just injected a 9 paragraph wall of text into the thread.

N0N
Posted - 2010.08.05 14:55:00 - [435]
 

Originally by: Mackenna
Originally by: Second Class

Maybe you have the time todo this spinning in your pos prolly replicating what I said in my post.



I'm trolling you, as I have no logical response to your post.
I've failed more times, than the rhythm method ITT.



FYP Very Happy

Second Class
Posted - 2010.08.05 14:57:00 - [436]
 

Originally by: Mackenna
Originally by: Second Class

Maybe you have the time todo this spinning in your pos prolly replicating what I said in my post.



...says the alt who just injected a 9 paragraph wall of text into the thread.



I rest my case out of the past 4 posts two of them have been you trolling. So again why would I read 15 pages when half of it will be drivel and trolls Rolling Eyes.

Anyway dont forget to post all those cloaky reds in intel channel for somone to come save you.

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.05 14:59:00 - [437]
 

Originally by: N0N

I also haven't bothered to read the thread here before speaking with authority, so I've missed the dozens of times that the OP was adressed by the guy I'm failing at making fun of.


Voith
Posted - 2010.08.05 15:03:00 - [438]
 

Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
Originally by: Voith


No one has given any answer as to why they just don't hit up wormholes instead of crying about local.


There is a lot of thing that make wormhole not so attractive for pvp:

1) Supply:

because of the way wormhole work, its relativly hard to handle supply of ammo, cap charge, bomb ...

You can never really know where your wormhole will link the next day so you need to have an alt dedicated to handling all supply. this is the complete opposite of 0.0, where handling supply is relativly easy, with npc station, well stock market ...

2) Delay between each system:

Because you dont know if someone is there as you get into a wormhole system (because of the lack of localVery Happy), you need to dedicate some time to look around system to find your target. While fun and challenging, if you add this delay with the delay of having to look for your next wormhole, you need to plan for a few hours ahead in the hope of hitting only a few system. if you are really unlucky, this mean you could spend entire night without seeing a single target, using most of your time to probe around.

3) Probe laucher:

To travel between wormhole system and to find target more quickly, a probe launcher is mandatory. This mean a lots of ship that dont have spare highs for a probe launcher: bomber, inty, most cruiser class ship ... cannot be effectivly used in wormhole because you will have to cripple your setup with a probe launcher.

Alternativly, this mean you need a probing dedicated pilot , and if your group is relativly small, you give up a lot of firepower just to be able to move around.

4) combine all these factor:

If you are a soloer, wormhole are unnatractive because of all the built in problem of supply and probing. those factor while making thing more interresting, were mostly added to wormhole to give more challenge for the vast PVE riches that can be made there

If you are in a group: you might spend an entire evening moving around between system without ever seeing a target, and will spend most time waiting for the prober to find the next wormhole entrance. Some people like this challenge and dont mind the wait, but some people dont ...




Now compare this with AFK cloaking:

1)you can be there without actually being there , meaning you can scare the carebear into staying docked because they are not skilled enought to know how to handle an hostile in local

2) because its 0.0 and its charted, you know which system, without even the use of local, that are most likely to have target: station system ...

this also mean that you know the way to most probable targets and can plan your travel accordingly.

3) Similar situation with supply, because of all the local market that are available quite rapidly, its easy to plan a small attack and when you lack ammo/bomb, to go back to ressuply. alternativly you can do shaddy business with the system dweller so they eject some goods from their local station in exhchange for "protection"

Finnaly afk cloaking does allow you to bypass most protection the local give atm .... so I guess the choice is relativly easy ... albeit, it would be ton more fun if there was no local or a delayed local in 0.0

Valadeya


So, while local is the bane of all PvP and wrecks the game, you are too lazy and are unwilling to do any extra work to avoid it.

It is almost like local isn't he problem, you being a horrible player is.

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.05 15:03:00 - [439]
 

Originally by: Second Class

I rest my case


Excellent. We can move along now.

Second Class
Posted - 2010.08.05 15:07:00 - [440]
 

If you think I am speaking or trying to speak with authority you need serious help http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=8822&cn=7 . Keep spinning/posting from your pos and just remember those voices are not cloaky ships.

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.05 15:18:00 - [441]
 

Originally by: Second Class
If you think I am speaking or trying to speak with authority


Damn, and I thought you had rested your case. oh well.

You're very fond of trying to ascertain what I think...entertaining as that is to watch, I'll clarify for you.

There are two relevant thoughts on my mind right now:

1) It wouldn't matter if you had read the thread before posting as you obviously have trouble following one. My post was obviously pointed at NON (Take special note of my cunning use of the quote mechanic where his name is prominently displayed) Perhaps it is an alt?

2) You fail at eve forum linking.

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.05 15:30:00 - [442]
 

Originally by: Voith

It is almost like local isn't he problem, you being a horrible player is.


Agreed. Local isn't the problem. If it were, they'd all be in WH space.

The ability to spend an unlimited amount of time inside enemy territory, functionally invulnerable to attack, pretending to be some sort of hardcore predator (while in truth they practice consensual PvP) is a problem, however.




N0N
Posted - 2010.08.05 15:40:00 - [443]
 

Originally by: Mackenna
Originally by: N0N
Failed alteration by Rhythm Method MacKenna.
Damn it I've failed again, you have in fact read the thread and post before I, back on page 3.


FYP. Very Happy

B1

Second Class
Posted - 2010.08.05 15:51:00 - [444]
 

Originally by: Mackenna

...says the alt




Originally by: Mackenna


Perhaps it is an alt?




As I said I think you need help, all the voices are not cloaky ships/alts. I wonder if it puts the pos shield into reinforced if you spin really really fast. Have a break have a kit-cat obviously the paranoia is taking hold.

Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.08.05 15:52:00 - [445]
 

Originally by: Voith

So, while local is the bane of all PvP and wrecks the game, you are too lazy and are unwilling to do any extra work to avoid it.

It is almost like local isn't he problem, you being a horrible player is.


You asked for reason why wormhole are in general less attractive for PVP, and I gave you a short list of element native to wormhole that make it less attractive.

I am not saying people should not go into wormhole and do the extra work, all I am implying is that when wormhole are fantastic hunting ground because of the lack of any local intel, they also include a lot of logistic and supply problem that need to be taken into consideration before hunting in them.

All I am saying, and CCP is considering this point of view, is that the gameplay and eve experience would be far more enjoyable and interresting if local intel was modified.

They however "CCP" are not even considering any nerf to cloak or afk cloak (from csm reports and minutes) because such mechanic is allowed, have been in game since 2004, and contribute to the general eve experience.


I still find interesting that you still resort to personnal attack after I tried point out several key element that make such attempt futile at best.


Should you respond, it would be interresing if you included a counter argument as to why local should be kept as it is in 0.0, instead of being delayed or removed, and how such local modification would reduce the quality of the general eve experience.

If possible, it is strongly recommanded that you avoid personnal attack; they do not provide any additionnal information and are not contributing to the discussion.

Valadeya

Voith
Posted - 2010.08.05 16:50:00 - [446]
 

Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
Originally by: Voith

So, while local is the bane of all PvP and wrecks the game, you are too lazy and are unwilling to do any extra work to avoid it.

It is almost like local isn't he problem, you being a horrible player is.


You asked for reason why wormhole are in general less attractive for PVP, and I gave you a short list of element native to wormhole that make it less attractive.

I am not saying people should not go into wormhole and do the extra work, all I am implying is that when wormhole are fantastic hunting ground because of the lack of any local intel, they also include a lot of logistic and supply problem that need to be taken into consideration before hunting in them.

All I am saying, and CCP is considering this point of view, is that the gameplay and eve experience would be far more enjoyable and interresting if local intel was modified.

They however "CCP" are not even considering any nerf to cloak or afk cloak (from csm reports and minutes) because such mechanic is allowed, have been in game since 2004, and contribute to the general eve experience.


I still find interesting that you still resort to personnal attack after I tried point out several key element that make such attempt futile at best.


Should you respond, it would be interresing if you included a counter argument as to why local should be kept as it is in 0.0, instead of being delayed or removed, and how such local modification would reduce the quality of the general eve experience.

If possible, it is strongly recommanded that you avoid personnal attack; they do not provide any additionnal information and are not contributing to the discussion.

Valadeya


It isn't a personal attack, it is exactly what you said. You are too lazy to work a bit more to avoid a feature you hate.

That was your exact justification. If you don't want to be insulted don't use "But I'm lazy" as an argument.

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:29:00 - [447]
 

Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
it would be interresing if you included a counter argument as to why local should be kept as it is in 0.0, instead of being delayed or removed, and how such local modification would reduce the quality of the general eve experience.



Before I get into this, try to keep two things in mind:

(a) This thread is about AFK-Cloaking, not Local.
(b) We're only talking about local because you and others have cited it as the reason you behave the way you do.

It has been said before in this thread and probably will be many more times: The vast majority of you wanting local to go as dark as it is in Wormhole Space would both be screaming for it to be turned back on as soon as you had a day with it that way and you'd probably cancel your accounts within a month due to the extreme boredom of scanning belts every night with little to no results you like.

Local actually works in your favor as a cloaky ganker. The unenlightened/lazy/overconfident/incompetent players that are the bread and butter of your killboard -- they too think that the minuscule amount of intel that local provides is some kind of safety net; they are the folks you catch running anomalies solo in a carrier.

Remove Local and even the incompetent players will see the value of blobbing the hell out of every rat they want to kill.

Gates would be watched by pilots in shifts. Corp taxes would be used to pay a salary to people who sit at the gates and then report not only the presence of a pilot, but also what that pilot is flying (something local does not give).

Not only would it make your job harder as a consensual pvper, it would also make fleet/gang combat when roaming a joke, as entire fleets can pass each other in warp unaware of the each other's presence.

Visibility Facilitates combat.
Stealth hinders combat.


Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:49:00 - [448]
 

Originally by: Mackenna

Agreed. Cloaking isn't the problem. If it were, they'd all be in high sec.



fixed it for you

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2010.08.05 19:07:00 - [449]
 

Originally by: Voith
No one has given any answer as to why they just don't hit up wormholes instead of crying about local.

Because you can't dictate where your enemies reside? Duh?
How come you don't just go do your PVE in wormholes, where you're immune to AFK cloakers?

Mackenna
Amarr
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.05 19:12:00 - [450]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera

Agreed. Cloaking isn't the problem. If it were, they'd all be in high sec.



Originally by: Joe Starbreaker

How come you don't just go do your PVE in wormholes, where you're immune to AFK cloakers?



Breaking news: Cloaking devices don't work in Wormholes or Empire space.


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