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Nykitah
Posted - 2010.04.22 14:55:00 - [31]
 

Well, if CVA hadn't been sending NBSI gank squads to kill our carebears, maybe we would've been allies.

SecHaul
Posted - 2010.04.22 19:41:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: SecHaul on 22/04/2010 19:42:21
Considering most NBSI corps and alliances are napped with every entity around them, most operate on a light NRDS policy anyway since anyone not "red" isn't blue.

Very few NRDS alliances will consistently not attack neutrals (and defend neutrals to enfore the NRDS), CVA was one of the few that operated a strict policy.

Quite frankly I wish standings could be removed entirely from the game and let this be managed manually rather than via nice little EVE icons. A few friendly fire incidents and reduction in free local intel would go a long way to hard-core NBSI alliances napped with every entity 100 jumps around them slightly interesting.

Ramiera DaMorre
Posted - 2010.04.23 00:33:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Aaron
it would be possible for the NRDS consortium to be the most feared people in the game.


Quote:
feared


The ****?! Shocked

Chocratess
Swedish Death Machine 2.0
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:05:00 - [34]
 

well im a nobody and i dont know who you are, but i'll continue to attempt to further nrds as best i can.

Dalv Fliteo
Stainwagon. Holding Corporation
Stainwagon.
Posted - 2010.05.04 04:23:00 - [35]
 

Just posting to confirm.. that yes i actually do know who you are Aaron :)

You're a big very very very stupid guy. Someone could actually classify you as a moron.

And your mother is very very very very very fat.

I know this for a fact because i slept with her.


NRDS: "i don't like this guy i'm just gonna set him red and shoot him"
NBSI: "i like this guy so i'm gonna set him blue and not shoot him"

This is all this discussion is about ?

******ed. If you like NRDS go to hisec. Or start getting used to NBSI surrounding you everywhere. Otherwise you will just turn into a little scared piece of female genitales ready to be torn apart by the large erectile predators out there.

Perfect Market
Posted - 2010.05.04 04:39:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Dalv Fliteo
Just posting to confirm.. that yes i actually do know who you are Aaron :)

You're a big very very very stupid guy. Someone could actually classify you as a moron.

And your mother is very very very very very fat.

I know this for a fact because i slept with her.


NRDS: "i don't like this guy i'm just gonna set him red and shoot him"
NBSI: "i like this guy so i'm gonna set him blue and not shoot him"

This is all this discussion is about ?

******ed. If you like NRDS go to hisec. Or start getting used to NBSI surrounding you everywhere. Otherwise you will just turn into a little scared piece of female genitales ready to be torn apart by the large erectile predators out there.
Quality post bro.

Protector X
Posted - 2010.05.09 12:49:00 - [37]
 

I am a winner on the NRDS concept, is there any 0.0 space that operates this, there would definately need to be shared standings amongst participating corporations. A mOsTly safe 0.0 space to rat, mine and travel almost sounds to good to be true.

edeity
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.10 00:03:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: edeity on 10/05/2010 00:05:28
You can use basic game theory on determining success / fail of nrds. Normally encounters in 0.0 are a prisoners dilemma game. In this game you are stupid to collaborate so you should shoot immediately because you can also assume they will do this. Either party gets a massive payoff if they can pretend to be peaceful but then turn nasty - I.e noob or freighter baitship.

CVA turned providence from prisoners dilemma to a co-ordination game. This was done by having significant positive and negative effects of betrayal. U'k and other nrds alliances fail to do this, therefore their nrds isn't going to be successful and will mean a lot of people die and then give up on it except in maybe name.

Why CVA failed was not scaling their positive and negatives. Their only protection was scale of positive and negative consequence - both were needed. Without the scaling they had no defense against a strategic threat that broke down the weighting of benefits of nrds. It wasn't AAA or U'K that defeated CVA - cva killed themselves by complacency.

If your serious about nrds it will require massive scale and offer serious upside and downside in a strategic context for players- I.e they need to regret or to be happy with their choice in response to nrds because of it's wallet impacts on at least a 12 month horizon. If you cannot do that, forget about nrds.

BuRniZZ
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.05.10 12:56:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Aaron
i believe that NRDS actually outnumbers NBSI. with this in mind surley it would be possible for the NRDS consortium to be the most feared people in the game.


You might be right in thinking NRDS outnumbers NBSI but that would be irrelevant since most of them live in highsec anyways.

Btw: CONCORD is the only NRDS entity that really controls it's space. Laughing

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2010.05.10 14:28:00 - [40]
 

All you nubs who don't know who Aaron is need to read General Discussion more.

That is all.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2010.05.23 05:06:00 - [41]
 

Obviously NRDS vs NBSI is the same as civilization vs chaos.

I never cease to be surprised by the uncivilized manner that certain posters here present.

The organizations that practise universal NRDS need to get together, team up, and share a KOS list. I am personally all for 100% dedication to NRDS and the purification of the dirtier elements of this galaxy.

So, fighters for NRDS, civilization and true freedom,
freedom from the tyranny of the pirate horde alliances and corps that roam in 0.0 and low sec, lets stand together. Lets fight for a decent New Eden.

Aaron, (or anyone else who is pro-NRDS) if you are interested in talking more with me join the public channel of the Yulai Guard " YULAI-PUB ", or contact me directly in game via Convo, or EVEmail. To see what our corporation is about check out the following 2 pages:

http://yulaiguard.net16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5
http://yulaiguard.net16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4

I want to say thankyou to Aaron for bringing this most important topic to our attention, hope to speak with some of you later.

Honour and Decency! o7

// Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard

Ramiera DaMorre
Posted - 2010.05.23 06:35:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Obviously NRDS vs NBSI is the same as civilization vs chaos.



Civilization is about raping and plundering and converting by force. Laughing
Oh sure, I know that's an exaggeration and not entirely true, really, I do.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.05.23 07:57:00 - [43]
 

Is CCP still going to reduce the amount of corps/alliances that an alliance can set standings to 300 in Tyrranis?

If so, NRDS will likely not be able to function for long. Most NRDS entities have red lists of well over 300.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.05.23 08:08:00 - [44]
 

Um, who the hell are you now?

Originally by: Kazzzi
Is CCP still going to reduce the amount of corps/alliances that an alliance can set standings to 300 in Tyrranis?

If so, NRDS will likely not be able to function for long. Most NRDS entities have red lists of well over 300.


Most NBSI entities have blue lists of well over 300.

Laughing

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.05.23 08:33:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Kazzzi
Is CCP still going to reduce the amount of corps/alliances that an alliance can set standings to 300 in Tyrranis?

If so, NRDS will likely not be able to function for long. Most NRDS entities have red lists of well over 300.


It's been changed to 2600.

flier1285
Robonia
Posted - 2010.05.24 00:19:00 - [46]
 

I have been in corps with both NRDS and NBSI. NBSI has more going for it in my opinion cause it allows you to get off the 1st shot when it could mean the fight (or in my case get into position to fight as I'm Gallente.) NRDS is alright but from the ones I've been around it is hard to defend your home from people.

all an attacker has to do is send a neutral into most NRDS space and get intel, then bring in there ships and way waste to everything. I do see NRDS has more of a team feel to it but I prefer to keep everyone out of my home if at all possible. So when those backup ships do get there we can some surprises of defending our home turf.

As for continuing the NRDS policy, I think it might have to adapt an NBSI policy in there home systems and a NRDS policy when out roaming or such.

That is my 2 isk worth.

Flier1285

Zak'eni
Revolutionary Socialialist Party of Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.24 09:44:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
**** you, drakes ****ing own


qt

why would you remove the defining thing of NRDS

Entrepaz
Posted - 2010.05.24 21:41:00 - [48]
 

I think NRDS is about profit and building wealth. It is an open market where there is the rule of law. Enforcing the law is always imperfect, always difficult in communities where some are unknown (or many), but NRDS represents that rule of law and the idea that our communities can be true empires of their own.

NBSI is, You kill if you feel like killing. But mostly you just kill, because to paraphrase the NBSI guys, "we play eve to pew pew, so why not pew pew?"

NRDS should always be the ideal of any state because NBSI is insular, paranoid, and unproductive. But NRDS requires a monopoly on violence, and a real ability to enforce.

Ushra Khan/Star Fraction NRDS is real, but it only applies to UK/SF.

CVA NRDS managed to make Providence NRDS, and made it apply to everyone who resided there. CVA truly managed to extend the empire. and it was an interesting and beautiful thing.

Pirates are stupid: NRDS attracts tons of casual players and small gangs. Pirates whine about wanting something to beat the blob, then mock NRDS. NRDS is what pirates thrive on because it creates an abudnance of small fun to fight targets. NBSI creates hard walls and bigger and bigger fights to defend chokepoints, which would destroy anything but a massive BLOB.

Pirates in Eve Desperately need a code of honor, and to respect NRDS for what it is, a guarantor of targets.

Pirates are good for NRDS as well. They give people who want to kill in NRDS a large supply of skilled targets to sharpen their teeth on.

I can understand so much of 0.0 being NBSI. It is new territory, constantly fought over. It has not been truly conquered yet - it has surely not been tamed.

My Best

Entrepaz

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2010.05.24 22:33:00 - [49]
 

The lesson of recent experience in the real world is that you cannot create the conditions for freedom and domestic tranquility without the ability to enforce your borders. As long as people with hostile intentions are allowed to cross freely into your space and do you harm, your NRDS policy is folly. It is a law only followed by the law-abiding.

If you wish to create a zone of peace and prosperity, you must create a strong Republic, meaning a nation ruled by law and not by man. In EVE this will necessitate the formation of an alliance, or at least a blue list, and a code of laws both limited and strict. This Republic would differ from other 0.0 alliances in that (a) nothing would be required of its members, they are free, pay no tax, and may do as they please under the law; (b) all entities willing to abide by the law are allowed: even one-man corporations will be allowed to join the alliance/blue list; (c) law enforcement must be swift and terrible.

Your laws would be very few, so as to preserve the freedom of all citizens:
1. No neutrals allowed in the space.
2. No violence against blues.
3. Valuable moons will be first-come, first-served.
4. Some sort of (elected) leadership will be empowered to impose martial law in times of war to defend the space.

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, "NRDS is two wolves and a lamb ratting in the same system. Liberty is an alliance of well-armed lambs defending their borders."

Nykitah
Posted - 2010.05.25 02:42:00 - [50]
 

Joe Starbreaker, I have no idea what you're talking about but it is not EVE... not at all. It also has very little to do with NRDS.

The big turnoff about the NRDS RoE is that is actually requires effort and patience to pull off and unfortunately, 90% of the players in EVE lack both patience and the will to get off their ass. All they want to do is settle in one place, shoot everyone, realize how dumb that is, blue everything around that could possibly put up an even fight and then kill anyone weaker with their newfound "friends".

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2010.05.25 03:03:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Nykitah
Joe Starbreaker, I have no idea what you're talking about but it is not EVE... not at all. It also has very little to do with NRDS.


NRDS doesn't work, nor should it, for it is stupid. Rule of law is a better idea to accomplish the same goal. It might be worth a try.

mech res
Posted - 2010.05.25 04:07:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Aaron
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:55:33
Edited by: Aaron on 21/04/2010 15:54:08

...
NRDS is a really cool concept, ....


It over! okay?
Everybody now shootface others. Okay?
It over.

Nykitah
Posted - 2010.05.25 04:20:00 - [53]
 

Sorry to pop your bubble but it does work and will work should once choose to put effort into making it and and have the patience to wait for it to work.

Detvein
Posted - 2010.05.25 16:24:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Detvein on 25/05/2010 16:25:35
Edited by: Detvein on 25/05/2010 16:24:58
NRDS, let the carebears have their fun. The rest of us will just play eve, its a game not real life, even though many people (mainly in NRDS leadership) choose to ignore this fact and try to supplement their failures in real life with eve online.

All NRDS does is keep a fresh supply of carebears all grouped together for us real PvPers to kill.

So coming from a NBSI players perspective, keep NRDS alliances/coalitions alive and well.

You all fail, and I love you for it.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2010.05.25 18:07:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Nykitah
Sorry to pop your bubble but it does work and will work should once choose to put effort into making it and and have the patience to wait for it to work.

Let me put it this way. What is the purpose and intent of an NRDS policy?

Beoth
Posted - 2010.05.25 18:58:00 - [56]
 

The most obvious reasons are making isk off 0.0 markets and having a lot of "freindlies" around means you can have somewhat of a buffer to prevent invasions, ect..... didn't really work for CVA though.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2010.05.25 19:25:00 - [57]
 

In other words, you want a bustling economy, and you want someone else to do the fighting to protect you. You're a free-rider, and you represent one of the problems with NRDS.

I was really asking, what is the purpose and intent of an NRDS policy (for the host like CVA)? My belief is that what they wanted was an area of tranquility and prosperity to be enjoyed by whatever good people wish to dwell there. NRDS does not lead to this result, for two reasons: (1) free riders, and (2) unrestricted access by enemies.

The core problem is making sure that the people in your sphere are "good people" who support your project, rather than exploiting or undermining it. In the real world we do this by making sure the people who dwell within a republic adhere to the basic "contract" of expectations -- i.e. adherence to the laws. You need to create a set of laws for the space such that it incentivizes the right kind of people to move there, and you need to enforce it by empowering your residents to fight off neutral invaders.

The scheme I suggest would be like NRDS in the respect that anyone who chooses to participate would be allowed to use the space, and you wouldn't be dictatorial, but it would be like NBSI in that you would strictly defend the space from neutrals who have not signed on to your system of law.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.05.26 11:37:00 - [58]
 

Quote:

Speaking as a Free Caption of the star fraction, we are NRDS because space is free and we neither respect nor ordain borders or regressive standings enclosurism. Therefore us getting together to tell others how to be NRDS would be hypocritical



I am curious, what happens if a guy is happily carebearing in Star Fraction or Ushra Khan space and a third party kills him?

Are them prosecuted? Or can they do what they want in such Alliance's territory like it's their own territory?


If they are not prosecuted, I think being NRDS is useless over there, no "bear" will accept to risk exactly like if they lived in NPC 0.0, where only friends are corpies and no defense is done.

Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:10:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Speaking as a Free Caption of the star fraction, we are NRDS because space is free and we neither respect nor ordain borders or regressive standings enclosurism. Therefore us getting together to tell others how to be NRDS would be hypocritical



I am curious, what happens if a guy is happily carebearing in Star Fraction or Ushra Khan space and a third party kills him?

Are them prosecuted? Or can they do what they want in such Alliance's territory like it's their own territory?


If they are not prosecuted, I think being NRDS is useless over there, no "bear" will accept to risk exactly like if they lived in NPC 0.0, where only friends are corpies and no defense is done.



I'm curious as to a system where a third party can kill a happily carebearing guy in SF or UK space before SF or UK kills them first. Old habits will die hard.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:43:00 - [60]
 

There are those what want to build a civilization and believes in progress via cooperation and hard honest work.

And there are those who just want to blow things up and who dont care about much else than success for their own group.
(But usually they wont admit it, and instead laugh alot and are experts in making insults and trash others posts, especially if these posts have some decent content.)

And in most cases the first is NRDS and the latter is NBSI. It's just a matter of listening to your conscience or not.

If you really want to be part of something great, do the right thing and join the fight for NRDS today!


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