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Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2010.04.23 21:40:00 - [1381]
 

Hey russians riddle me this

Why are your bot's D-scan windows closed?

Douglass Bryant
Posted - 2010.04.23 21:41:00 - [1382]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin

What I said (I'll type it twice, so you can understand it) was:

For the ATTACK to work, the VICTIM committed an exploit.



Hey, I'm just having a discussion, no need to be snarky, I certainly wasn't.

My question is, what makes this attack so effective? There are an awful lot of players in the game and by sheer statistics if this was via simple game mechanics you would expect a higher percentage of players to have either used it or heard of it. So what is this magical attack?

The argument that revealing the attack ruins it does have some merit, I suppose, but ultimately from here on out every time PL or Monkey make a kill people will call out exploit. It would be infinitely easier to take the wind out of this threadnought's sails by simply explaining how this is so very easily accomplished if such thing is the case. There will always be macroers, and having this little attack under your sleeve doesn't really make anyone think twice about macroing. Ultimately there is no grand Robin Hoodesque glory here, but just a bunch of guys using either a questionable game mechanic or exploit to pad their wallets and killboard stats.

If indeed this tactic works only against macroers, and the campaign is as benevolent as it has been portrayed, are the caught macroers being reported to CCP?

Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2010.04.23 21:42:00 - [1383]
 

Originally by: Douglass Bryant
Originally by: Grath Telkin

What I said (I'll type it twice, so you can understand it) was:

For the ATTACK to work, the VICTIM committed an exploit.



Hey, I'm just having a discussion, no need to be snarky, I certainly wasn't.

My question is, what makes this attack so effective?


They're directed against simple algorithms.

Round Midnight
Posted - 2010.04.23 21:42:00 - [1384]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin

For the ATTACK to work, the VICTIM committed an exploit


You seem to be offering an interesting insight here. And it would suggest that you have intimate knowlegde of the way these attacks are carried out.
As "Its the only way it works, ever". The Monkeysphere truly is a noble warrior; only ever (able to) use his superior technique on those who are already cheatng by using exploits.

Please enlighten me/us just what this exploit is.

A number of posters from your alliance seem to be to be raising as many issues a posible around this discussion regardless of their relevance to the issues raised by the OP.
You it seems have the knowledge to clear things up.

As you are adamant that the technique used by monkey are entirely legal.
Please do not waste this opportunity to correct those that you are complaining are drawing conclusions on bad/circumstantial/insufficioent evidence, by providing a little evidence of your own.

Romale
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 21:43:00 - [1385]
 

In the hopes of clearing my alliances name, and in the sincere desire to give my pilots the fair share of the PL way of life, without a blemish on their name and background, I have appeared before in this thread and given it all the cooperation in my power. I consider it a great dishonor to me personally to have to deny that MonkeySphere is a criminal. I wish to have the following noted for the record: that Monkeysphere served PL faithfully and honorably in every major engagement and was awarded the PL Cross for actions in defense of his alliance; that he have never been arrested or indicted for any crime whatsoever; that no proof linking him to any criminal conspiracy whether it is called "exploiters" or "botters" or whatever other name you wish to give has ever been made public. He has not taken refuge silence, though it is his right to do. I challenge CCP/bolsheviks to produce any evidence against him. And if they do not, I hope they will have the decency to clear his name with the same publicity with which they now have besmirched it.

Douglass Bryant
Posted - 2010.04.23 21:50:00 - [1386]
 

Originally by: Boomershoot
Originally by: Douglass Bryant
Originally by: Grath Telkin

What I said (I'll type it twice, so you can understand it) was:

For the ATTACK to work, the VICTIM committed an exploit.



Hey, I'm just having a discussion, no need to be snarky, I certainly wasn't.

My question is, what makes this attack so effective?


They're directed against simple algorithms.


Of the macroer, you mean?

Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2010.04.23 21:53:00 - [1387]
 

Originally by: Douglass Bryant
Originally by: Boomershoot
Originally by: Douglass Bryant
Originally by: Grath Telkin

What I said (I'll type it twice, so you can understand it) was:

For the ATTACK to work, the VICTIM committed an exploit.



Hey, I'm just having a discussion, no need to be snarky, I certainly wasn't.

My question is, what makes this attack so effective?


They're directed against simple algorithms.


Of the macroer, you mean?


Yes.

I Wonder if they even bother making a non-cyrillic version now.

POKETMACTEP
Posted - 2010.04.23 21:58:00 - [1388]
 

Originally by: Romale
In the hopes of clearing my alliances name,


WoT

you-make-bunny-cry.jpg (just for save internet traffic, environment and PL - no links for images)

Romale
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 21:59:00 - [1389]
 

Originally by: Orephia
Originally by: Certero
I'll be waiting for this just to troll in new threads about EU and US botters

So far I have great appreciation for the Russian EvE community's contribution in bringing this issue to light, and respect for their overall self-moderation in response to PL's racist trolling to obscure the real progress that has been made. No need to look forward to sinking below their level. Don't help them to derail the issue, this is not about macros & bots, it's about exploiting the client, and needs to stay focused on that.
We have the no local part, what about the insta scan & warp to victim part. Please let the investigation continue without hugging the doodoo strewn about by the monkeyshine crew.


its funny you consider the pl trolling racist when its pretty clear that the ones being racist here is the russian community from eve-ru (the ones posting in the monkey thread anyway)

Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:07:00 - [1390]
 

Originally by: Romale
I wish to have the following noted for the record: that Monkeysphere served PL faithfully and honorably in every major engagement and was awarded the PL Cross for actions in defense of his alliance; that he have never been arrested or indicted for any crime whatsoever; that no proof linking him to any criminal conspiracy whether it is called "exploiters" or "botters" or whatever other name you wish to give has ever been made public. He has not taken refuge silence, though it is his right to do. I challenge CCP/bolsheviks to produce any evidence against him. And if they do not, I hope they will have the decency to clear his name with the same publicity with which they now have besmirched it.


Bla Bla Bla.
Noone cares about Monkeyman. None cares about PL.
1. Eve-ru community got internal posts from respected legal players about possible exploit.
2. It was confirmed by few different players, who is not related with macro using.
3. They reported bugs to CCP, as usual GMs see no problem. "Logs show nothing".
3. One botmaster joined discussion and provided information about Monkeyman activity for long period, including blackmailing botmasters.
4. Actually for more than 24 hours noone believed it.
5. Few old***s approved that such exploits can exist (watch Abuser information from old posts).
6. Monkeman's killbord investigated.
---
here starts topic on this forum
---
7. Few coders start to reproduce bug on test server.
8. They bugreport results to CCP.
9. PL and Monkey trolling.
10. Fraps video created to prove bug existence.

Finish. Nobody cares anymore about Monkey or PL reputation. It's CCP business. Every legit player wants exploit to be fixed, doesnt matter what tales PL posting here.
bbthnx.

P.S. sorry for bad english.

Capt Fossil
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:10:00 - [1391]
 

Originally by: Bobbechk
http://i40.tinypic.com/346aw46.gif
How its really done...

Image changed to link. Navigator



Awesome pik dude.

I am not really knowledgeable enough to comment on videos, hax tricks (alledged btw)but I am hope CCP will get to the bottom of it.

I must admit it does seem to be one more example of how macro'ers/botter's are really screwing up this game.

POKETMACTEP
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:15:00 - [1392]
 

Originally by: Boomershoot

I Wonder if they even bother making a non-cyrillic version now.

Originally by: Romale
its funny you consider the pl trolling racist when its pretty clear that the ones being racist here is the russian community from eve-ru (the ones posting in the monkey thread anyway)


Can you point to One, just, ONE, bot, that have russian (well, Cyrillic interface)?
I lame with google, but can found 10+ english/latin bot macro, and fail to find "russian" one.

Look like most of the bots used by ? speaking users.

Who is "trolling racist" here, without any ground?
P.S. sorry, i am wrong, racism and troll do not need any ground.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:15:00 - [1393]
 

Edited by: Ranka Mei on 23/04/2010 22:15:41
Originally by: Boomershoot
Originally by: Douglass Bryant

My question is, what makes this attack so effective?

They're directed against simple algorithms.

What a lovely story: poor Monkeyman was just finding a clever way to take advantage of the (faulty) way bots operate.

Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS reported Monekeydude being absent in local, suddenly appearing out of thin air, within impossible timeframes. What, Monkey used an "I-win" tactic 'directed against simple algorithms' on these normal players too? That's a neat trick! I have to hand it to you guys, your talent for obfuscation is near miraculous! :)

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:15:00 - [1394]
 

clearly this exploit exists due to the reproduction of the exploit by this huulu character making HIM the guilty party.

however, monkey apparently has upset a great many russian players by possibly using this exploit but no one has evidence. to assume these ru characters are telling the truth about the PL character would make HIM the guilty party.

but, since no one has actually provided any evidence that monkey has used this exploit and providing reproduction of an exploit and explaining how to reproduce said exploit is against the game rules, that would make nunununu the guilty party!

EXCEPT, now it appears that the exploit is only possible when the victim himself is using an exploit making the very knowledge of which indicative of guilt making PL the guilty party!

but accepting this as true tells us the victims themselves are cheating to begin with making the ru characters the guilty party!!

but the ru characters would know this already and not divulge such information unless they too knew some other avenue by which to make themselves impervious to reproach (or would they?) but then too the monkey would also have such knowledge before discussing (or would he?)

furthermore, no one has provided any evidence of wrong doing by this monkey character and the only evidence so far is that the ru characters have been admittedly using bots to harvest isk meaning both parties know the poison is in THEIR....*croak*

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eKH-tiSXFbc/SGH8syCF4XI/AAAAAAAACu8/1IINIpI5MHY/s400/vizzini.jpg
"Inconceivably" clever image is now a link. Shadow.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:23:00 - [1395]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia

but accepting this as true tells us the victims themselves are cheating to begin with making the ru characters the guilty party!!

Doesn't matter; even if it were true, creating an exploit to counter yet another exploit is still a bannable exploit! It all needs to stop.

Romale
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:33:00 - [1396]
 

Edited by: Romale on 23/04/2010 22:34:31
Edited by: Romale on 23/04/2010 22:33:34
Originally by: POKETMACTEP
Originally by: Boomershoot

I Wonder if they even bother making a non-cyrillic version now.

Originally by: Romale
its funny you consider the pl trolling racist when its pretty clear that the ones being racist here is the russian community from eve-ru (the ones posting in the monkey thread anyway)


Can you point to One, just, ONE, bot, that have russian (well, Cyrillic interface)?
I lame with google, but can found 10+ english/latin bot macro, and fail to find "russian" one.

Look like most of the bots used by ? speaking users.

Who is "trolling racist" here, without any ground?
P.S. sorry, i am wrong, racism and troll do not need any ground.

nope, but i read the original thread where the guy on eve-ru admitted he was botting.
In my comments anyway
i stopped calling russians botters russian botters, as i felt that was an unfair depiction of russian people, i know plenty of russians who are great American Citizens and deserve to be proud of their russian heritage.

So my understanding of how the russian botting community works is their implementation of communism on eve where some poor bastards slave away botting isk all day and through a high tax rate they pay for others to buy ships and pvp. Pretty typical communism exploiting the workers really.

As such i felt bolsheviks was the best term to describe the community of slavic people who automatically jumped to the aid of a guy who admitting botting, believing his word when he provided no proof and onslaught the eve-online community with its propaganda and lies. All because you felt a russian was being wronged. you did it based on race, no other reason. you wouldn't of done the same for a native french speaker or native german speaker.

Infact the way you have treated monkeysphere honestly reminds of the histories of the ****'s painting on jewish businesses based on race. In this case its not that monkeysphere is jewish, its that he's not russian.

Just my opinion anyway

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:36:00 - [1397]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
EXCEPT, now it appears that the exploit is only possible when the victim himself is using an exploit making the very knowledge of which indicative of guilt making PL the guilty party!
Except that it seems to affect players AT THE KEYBOARD as well. I'd take Pandemic Legion's claims that it's only possible on macros with a grain of salt. The fact they've spent much effort trying to derail this thread should be enough to question their sincerity on the issue.


Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:38:00 - [1398]
 

Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/04/2010 22:40:17
Originally by: Douglass Bryant



My question is, what makes this attack so effective? There are an awful lot of players in the game and by sheer statistics if this was via simple game mechanics you would expect a higher percentage of players to have either used it or heard of it.


I've learned to expect LESS from most people in this game. If anything were to support my argument, its this thread directly.

Originally by: Douglass Bryant
The argument that revealing the attack ruins it does have some merit


Yes

Originally by: Douglass Bryant
I suppose, but ultimately from here on out every time PL or Monkey make a kill people will call out exploit.


I think i speak for all of when i say "Ok"

Originally by: Douglass Bryant
It would be infinitely easier to take the wind out of this threadnought's sails by simply explaining how ....


I'm actually enjoying watching all the madness that mob mentality brings with it. You can, if you step back and read BOTH threads, watch it spread like wildfire, till the "undisclosed sources" created the hack on the russian forums, where it goes off to a fever pitch.

Evidence, the thread by angel citing monkey's now obviously false ban, the GM said one simple sentence, to quote it loosely, that discussing GM actions against players is illegal, and look what the players took from that, and did with that sentence. It was actually sited as evidence, as obscure a reference as it was, that the russian community is right and we are liars.

One line, by a GM, was used to fuel wild speculation for about 3 or 4 hours on 2 forums. Its an amazing social event to be witnessed if you ask me.


Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
EXCEPT, now it appears that the exploit is only possible when the victim himself is using an exploit making the very knowledge of which indicative of guilt making PL the guilty party!
Except that it seems to affect players AT THE KEYBOARD as well. I'd take Pandemic Legion's claims that it's only possible on macros with a grain of salt. The fact they've spent much effort trying to derail this thread should be enough to question their sincerity on the issue.




Also, i said ANY player, bot or real

Ukachaka U
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:41:00 - [1399]
 

Edited by: Ukachaka U on 23/04/2010 22:41:18
Originally by: Grath Telkin
<skipped>

Stop crying for a moment and tell us what will you do when monkey will be banned?

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:41:00 - [1400]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei

Doesn't matter; even if it were true, creating an exploit to counter yet another exploit is still a bannable exploit! It all needs to stop.


Originally by: Ukachaka U
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
some mumbling

U madz bro?

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Except that it seems to affect players AT THE KEYBOARD as well. I'd take Pandemic Legion's claims that it's only possible on macros with a grain of salt. The fact they've spent much effort trying to derail this thread should be enough to question their sincerity on the issue.


none of you bother ducking, that joke was safely WAY over your head Laughing

u should knee jerk some more

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:46:00 - [1401]
 

Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/04/2010 22:47:10
Originally by: Ukachaka U
Edited by: Ukachaka U on 23/04/2010 22:41:18
Originally by: Grath Telkin
<skipped>

Stop crying for a moment and tell us what will you do when monkey will be banned?


Go kill russian carriers in plex's cause your all really bad at this game?

PS- thanks for the helpful fuel for getting rid of broken local intel gathering tools though, I had about given up on it ever happening.

Ukachaka U
Posted - 2010.04.23 22:54:00 - [1402]
 

Edited by: Ukachaka U on 23/04/2010 22:54:17
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia

none of you bother ducking, that joke was safely WAY over your head Laughing

u should knee jerk some more

Patient, please, don't be nervous. Take your medicine and go to bed.

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/04/2010 22:47:10
Originally by: Ukachaka U
Edited by: Ukachaka U on 23/04/2010 22:41:18
Originally by: Grath Telkin
<skipped>

Stop crying for a moment and tell us what will you do when monkey will be banned?


Go kill russian carriers in plex's cause your all really bad at this game?


So you have some new exploits or..?

Metal Dude
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:19:00 - [1403]
 

Edited by: Metal Dude on 23/04/2010 23:22:00

The question is not "IF" PL exploited. I think everyone knows that they did. The question is how did PL come up with the exploit, which of PL devs told them how to use it and what is CCP going to do about it? ALL of the guilty parties should be perma banned; ALL the people that are on kill mails and in gangs while the exploit was being used and the CCP devs guilty of reveling the exploit should be reprimanded, not like the T20 who was slapped on the wrist while the rest of his alliance was forever stained by his actions. What will it take to get that accomplished? CSM, do your job.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:25:00 - [1404]
 

Originally by: Metal Dude
Edited by: Metal Dude on 23/04/2010 23:22:00

The question is not "IF" PL exploited. I think everyone knows that they did. The question is how did PL come up with the exploit, which of PL devs told them how to use it and what is CCP going to do about it? ALL of the guilty parties should be perma banned; ALL the people that are on kill mails and in gangs while the exploit was being used and the CCP devs guilty of reveling the exploit should be reprimanded, not like the T20 who was slapped on the wrist while the rest of his alliance was forever stained by his actions. What will it take to get that accomplished? CSM, do your job.


I honestly didn't know you had it in you man.

Shedding a little tear right now.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:25:00 - [1405]
 

Originally by: Metal Dude
The question is not "IF" PL exploited. I think everyone knows that they did. The question is how did PL come up with the exploit, which of PL devs told them how to use it and what is CCP going to do about it? ALL of the guilty parties should be perma banned; ALL the people that are on kill mails and in gangs while the exploit was being used and the CCP devs guilty of reveling the exploit should be reprimanded, not like the T20 who was slapped on the wrist while the rest of his alliance was forever stained by his actions. What will it take to get that accomplished? CSM, do your job.


Laughing

I'm going to guess you typed this angrily.




I think we should ban everyone.
Everyone in this thread too.

E v e r y o n e

Romale
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:26:00 - [1406]
 

Originally by: Metal Dude
Edited by: Metal Dude on 23/04/2010 23:22:00

The question is not "IF" PL exploited. I think everyone knows that they did. The question is how did PL come up with the exploit, which of PL devs told them how to use it and what is CCP going to do about it? ALL of the guilty parties should be perma banned; ALL the people that are on kill mails and in gangs while the exploit was being used and the CCP devs guilty of reveling the exploit should be reprimanded, not like the T20 who was slapped on the wrist while the rest of his alliance was forever stained by his actions. What will it take to get that accomplished? CSM, do your job.


actually for this one we had to go through alot of internal ccp emails to find out how to expoit local. you have no idea how much bs they mail back n forth thankfully hewhoshallremaneunamed and a few of our other players have created an algorithm and basically use google cloud to parse through everything for us until we find something we can use. Interestingly enough OUR method of staying out of local only works if the other player is using a cyrillic client

Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:32:00 - [1407]
 

Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:34:42
Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:32:38
Originally by: Romale
Interestingly enough OUR method of staying out of local only works if the other player is using a cyrillic client


Suddenly!
Most Russians use English client :)

P.S. botmasters use only english client, never heard bout exceptions

Soroksorok
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:37:00 - [1408]
 

Originally by: Ash2h
Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:34:42
Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:32:38
Originally by: Romale
Interestingly enough OUR method of staying out of local only works if the other player is using a cyrillic client


Suddenly!
Most Russians use English client :)

P.S. botmasters use only english client, never heard bout exceptions


And dem macrotengus can destroy PL's curses even without having disruptors fitted. Those sneaky russian bastards!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:43:00 - [1409]
 

Quote:

Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS



How can them be "REGULAR" players if they don't do the most basic 101 of using a directional scanner? And yet use ships that have NO chance to escape, that is ships where using the directional scanner is vital?

Jeremey
Glittering Dust
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:46:00 - [1410]
 

PANDEMIC LEGION

We just wanted to troll that we're exploiters,
but suddenly convinced everyone in this.


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