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Jeremey
Glittering Dust
Posted - 2010.04.23 02:22:00 - [1111]
 

Edited by: Jeremey on 23/04/2010 02:24:12
Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte
I personally do not expect Monkeysphere to be banned because of possible lack of solid evidence on CCP's part. However, I expect the exploit to be fixed and I'm very confident that after that is done, we will see the dramatic drop of his "accomplishments." If he does get banned for it, then all the better, but it really is a drop in the ocean compared to the overall impact of such exploits.

Supported. Also thanks for the video of SiSi exploit demonstration.

Originally by: Raivi
There are three ways that I am aware of in which someone can avoid the emergency warp for instant logon traps. All of these tricks are simple game mechanics, not exploits or hacking. If you really have this pvp experience, then the easiest of these tricks should be obvious to you, and would allow you to replicate what the Russians are describing perfectly.

The Monkeysphere isn't guilty, so there is no need to prove his innocence, isn't it?

Phosphorus Palladium
Posted - 2010.04.23 02:22:00 - [1112]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Hi,

please post your feelings on this in my important petition thread. If you could also support my proposal that would be appreciated.


Still trying to shoot the messenger, are we?

Xtover
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.04.23 02:28:00 - [1113]
 

I remember back with the T20 incident.

The char-who's-name-shall-not-be-spoken exposed the cheating by "hacking" himself.


I'm just saying, you might have wanted to think twice before exploting yourself just to prove what you think happened.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.23 02:30:00 - [1114]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Hi,

please post your feelings on this in my important petition thread. If you could also support my proposal that would be appreciated.
Laughing Oh no worries. I'm sure the bans will be coming down soon. Huhuhu reproduced the exploit and immediately reported it. PL and friend, on the other hand... Well, let's just hope they're as clean as they've been claiming to be all along (except for a few PL that have come forth already).


Ellatan Deruimte
Surreal corp
Stain Empire
Posted - 2010.04.23 02:32:00 - [1115]
 

Edited by: Ellatan Deruimte on 23/04/2010 02:37:37
Originally by: Raivi

There are three ways that I am aware of in which someone can avoid the emergency warp for instant logon traps. All of these tricks are simple game mechanics, not exploits or hacking. If you really have this pvp experience, then the easiest of these tricks should be obvious to you, and would allow you to replicate what the Russians are describing perfectly.


HIC logging of inside his own field, logging of inside a mobile, logging of in dictor bubble, etc. All of it has absolutely nothing to do with what was described. How can you claim that it will allow you to replicate what was described perfectly, if you didn't even bother to read through it?

You are welcome to make a video replicating what was described then, go ahead and do it. You can make a video from the victim's perspective, so no "secret knowledge" would be given away, because dozens of players have been on the recieving end. I think that would clear good ol' Monkeysphere's name as well as Pandemic Legion's, so it should be in your best interests.

We will be all awaiting patiently for that video.

Deus Ex'Machina
Amarr
modro
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.04.23 02:38:00 - [1116]
 

Originally by: Jeremey
The Monkeysphere isn't guilty, so there is no need to prove his innocence, isn't it?


I see what you did there, I do hope you see as well Twisted Evil

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 02:42:00 - [1117]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Lady Spank
Hi,

please post your feelings on this in my important petition thread. If you could also support my proposal that would be appreciated.
Laughing Oh no worries. I'm sure the bans will be coming down soon. Huhuhu reproduced the exploit and immediately reported it. PL and friend, on the other hand... Well, let's just hope they're as clean as they've been claiming to be all along (except for a few PL that have come forth already).




You've gotten trolled so hard I'm still laughing about it.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.23 02:51:00 - [1118]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank

If you could also support my proposal that would be appreciated.

I'm afraid I can't do that. I quickly 'fyi'-ed the rules again, just so people realize that creating and posting about those exploits puts yourself at risk. But, like I said,

Originally by: Ranka Mei

I hope CCP shows some common-sense leniency towards those who helped bring this exploit to light, though.

Banning huhuhu for showing how it's done, I think that would be kinda tacky. Far as I'm concerned, he only forced CCP's hand because they are, themselves, not easily inclined to believe claims of exploits. I hope they'll interpret it that way, at least.

This thread does show, however, that apparently rather large groups use macros and exploits on a daily basis, with impunity. That, regret to say, is a mite disturbing.

dumpertt
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:00:00 - [1119]
 

Edited by: dumpertt on 23/04/2010 03:04:54
Edited by: dumpertt on 23/04/2010 03:01:56
Originally by: Raivi

There are three ways that I am aware of in which someone can avoid the emergency warp for instant logon traps. All of these tricks are simple game mechanics, not exploits or hacking. If you really have this pvp experience, then the easiest of these tricks should be obvious to you, and would allow you to replicate what the Russians are describing perfectly.



why do we think smth is wrong with monkey's space magic?

Location: HIK-MC (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 16:52:00

monkey performs a perfect logon trap and kills a macroratter

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972520

then he warps to the gate, jumps in, founds the next macroratter, warp to the belt, anchors a mobile, logoff, performs another perfect logon trap and kills a macroratter...

Location: E4-E8W (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 16:59:00

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972521

WOW! that guy is REALLY fast! all of it took only 7min. pro! but... is it a record? let's see, what is next:

once again he warps to the gate, jumps in, founds the next macroratter, warp to the belt, anchors a mobile, logoff, performs another perfect logon trap and kills a macroratter...

Location: E-BFLT (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 17:03:00

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972522

and we have a winner! 4min now! that just amazing, isn't it?

Location: L-WG68 (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 17:13:00

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972523

another one bites the dust. ok, the logon trap took 10min - but that system is 3 jumps away...

show me how THAT is possible. video is enough. i want to believe!

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:07:00 - [1120]
 

Originally by: dumpertt
show me how THAT is possible. video is enough. i want to believe!


Don't
stop
belieeeeevin'~

HairySack Hangin
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:09:00 - [1121]
 

Speaking of exploits and macros... a simple torrent search will turn up a pretty good number of them. They break down into only four that are in active use, but their titles tell you a lot about what they are intended to do.

It always confuses me that the client does not take snapshots of, or even actively monitor, active services or applications to look for key applications running concurrently with the client itself then just dump the client while they're active. Closing their own client does not impact the user's machine, it's non-invasive, and perfectly within CCP's rights when it concerns their app.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:09:00 - [1122]
 

Originally by: dumpertt
Edited by: dumpertt on 23/04/2010 03:04:54
Edited by: dumpertt on 23/04/2010 03:01:56
Originally by: Raivi

There are three ways that I am aware of in which someone can avoid the emergency warp for instant logon traps. All of these tricks are simple game mechanics, not exploits or hacking. If you really have this pvp experience, then the easiest of these tricks should be obvious to you, and would allow you to replicate what the Russians are describing perfectly.



why do we think smth is wrong with monkey's space magic?

Location: HIK-MC (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 16:52:00

monkey performs a perfect logon trap and kills a macroratter

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972520

then he warps to the gate, jumps in, founds the next macroratter, warp to the belt, anchors a mobile, logoff, performs another perfect logon trap and kills a macroratter...

Location: E4-E8W (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 16:59:00

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972521

WOW! that guy is REALLY fast! all of it took only 7min. pro! but... is it a record? let's see, what is next:

once again he warps to the gate, jumps in, founds the next macroratter, warp to the belt, anchors a mobile, logoff, performs another perfect logon trap and kills a macroratter...

Location: E-BFLT (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 17:03:00

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972522

and we have a winner! 4min now! that just amazing, isn't it?

Location: L-WG68 (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 17:13:00

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972523

another one bites the dust. ok, the logon trap took 10min - but that system is 3 jumps away...

show me how THAT is possible. video is enough. i want to believe!


If those ratters all used the same fail macro then they could be bubbled by ANYBODY, afterwards when they believe they are safely cloaked at their pos/ss then its just a case of mopping up the fail exploiters.

MORE SPECULATION PLS.

dumpertt
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:14:00 - [1123]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank

If those ratters all used the same fail macro then they could be bubbled by ANYBODY, afterwards when they believe they are safely cloaked at their pos/ss then its just a case of mopping up the fail exploiters.

MORE SPECULATION PLS.


don't stop believin'
hold on the feelin'
streetlights people

Miss Xerox
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:19:00 - [1124]
 

Well... heck!

Jeeze, if you want to prove that this exploit exists and is active use, go to the region in question, park a bait ship in a safespot, then sit there and wait!

Keep your FRAPS running and when names show up in local, warp to a SS. If you make it they're just raiders. If something miraculously appears at your SS within seconds and blows the ship... you have your proof.

Raivi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:20:00 - [1125]
 

Originally by: dumpertt
Edited by: dumpertt on 23/04/2010 03:04:54
Edited by: dumpertt on 23/04/2010 03:01:56
Originally by: Raivi

There are three ways that I am aware of in which someone can avoid the emergency warp for instant logon traps. All of these tricks are simple game mechanics, not exploits or hacking. If you really have this pvp experience, then the easiest of these tricks should be obvious to you, and would allow you to replicate what the Russians are describing perfectly.



why do we think smth is wrong with monkey's space magic?

Location: HIK-MC (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 16:52:00

monkey performs a perfect logon trap and kills a macroratter

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972520

then he warps to the gate, jumps in, founds the next macroratter, warp to the belt, anchors a mobile, logoff, performs another perfect logon trap and kills a macroratter...

Location: E4-E8W (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 16:59:00

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972521

WOW! that guy is REALLY fast! all of it took only 7min. pro! but... is it a record? let's see, what is next:

once again he warps to the gate, jumps in, founds the next macroratter, warp to the belt, anchors a mobile, logoff, performs another perfect logon trap and kills a macroratter...

Location: E-BFLT (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 17:03:00

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972522

and we have a winner! 4min now! that just amazing, isn't it?

Location: L-WG68 (0.0)
Date: 2010-03-04 17:13:00

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5972523

another one bites the dust. ok, the logon trap took 10min - but that system is 3 jumps away...

show me how THAT is possible. video is enough. i want to believe!


He doesn't need to do logoff traps for all his targets. People ratting without watching their screens and poorly coded macros (some of the ones that make you warp to a safe and cloak can be caught relatively quickly with probes). Strings of kills now and again are the main "proof" people are bringing, and the truth is those are when he gets easy targets. The logoff traps do take a bit more time (but not all that much).

Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte
Edited by: Ellatan Deruimte on 23/04/2010 02:37:37
Originally by: Raivi

There are three ways that I am aware of in which someone can avoid the emergency warp for instant logon traps. All of these tricks are simple game mechanics, not exploits or hacking. If you really have this pvp experience, then the easiest of these tricks should be obvious to you, and would allow you to replicate what the Russians are describing perfectly.


HIC logging of inside his own field, logging of inside a mobile, logging of in dictor bubble, etc. All of it has absolutely nothing to do with what was described. How can you claim that it will allow you to replicate what was described perfectly, if you didn't even bother to read through it?

You are welcome to make a video replicating what was described then, go ahead and do it. You can make a video from the victim's perspective, so no "secret knowledge" would be given away, because dozens of players have been on the recieving end. I think that would clear good ol' Monkeysphere's name as well as Pandemic Legion's, so it should be in your best interests.

We will be all awaiting patiently for that video.


Actually I'd classify all the bubble tricks as one trick, but yes, you've found the one I was saying is obvious. The video is done. Encoding it now and uploading to youtube.

dumpertt
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:23:00 - [1126]
 

Originally by: Miss Xerox
Well... heck!

Jeeze, if you want to prove that this exploit exists and is active use, go to the region in question, park a bait ship in a safespot, then sit there and wait!

Keep your FRAPS running and when names show up in local, warp to a SS. If you make it they're just raiders. If something miraculously appears at your SS within seconds and blows the ship... you have your proof.


sudennly monkey didn't kill a shuttle since the thread at eve-ru started. it's just a coincidence, surely. but do you think an exploiter will use exploit after this ****storm?

Manny theMiner
Corax.
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:25:00 - [1127]
 

Well now.... I've never been accused of being the smartest pilot in NATO, or even smart in general, but I would wager that a dual box with the ratter in the addressbook would have a pretty good idea when to spring the log-onski TARP... and that most ratters return to the last chain they were ratting...

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:27:00 - [1128]
 

Originally by: Miss Xerox
Well... heck!

Jeeze, if you want to prove that this exploit exists and is active use, go to the region in question, park a bait ship in a safespot, then sit there and wait!

Keep your FRAPS running and when names show up in local, warp to a SS. If you make it they're just raiders. If something miraculously appears at your SS within seconds and blows the ship... you have your proof.

Monkeyman hasn't made a kill in days. He's not stupid. He's laying low, I reckon. His account is pretty much hosed anyway. For now, he's not doing anything, as CCP no doubt is putting every molecule of his ass under a microscope. But in a few weeks or so he won't be able to resist again, use the exploit, only to find out CCP hasn't really stopped watching him.

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:30:00 - [1129]
 

Originally by: dumpertt


sudennly monkey didn't kill a shuttle since the thread at eve-ru started. it's just a coincidence, surely. but do you think an exploiter will use exploit after this ****storm?


It could be that. Or it could be that he's been trapped in a wormhole since Monday. But don't let logic derail your witch hunt~

Ellatan Deruimte
Surreal corp
Stain Empire
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:33:00 - [1130]
 

Edited by: Ellatan Deruimte on 23/04/2010 03:40:51
Originally by: Raivi

Actually I'd classify all the bubble tricks as one trick, but yes, you've found the one I was saying is obvious. The video is done. Encoding it now and uploading to youtube.


Tiny problem with that. None of the incidents describe any sorts of bubbles or mobiles, just arazu suddenly appearing near them within 2-3 seconds of appearing in local channel. That arazu character was entering the system for the first time in several hours with no neutral traffic beforehand, so there isn't a possibility for a log off. Looking forward to that video though.

Originally by: Manny theMiner
Well now.... I've never been accused of being the smartest pilot in NATO, or even smart in general, but I would wager that a dual box with the ratter in the addressbook would have a pretty good idea when to spring the log-onski TARP... and that most ratters return to the last chain they were ratting...


Correct, I do it all the time to catch people in anomalies and sometimes belts. However, it requires you to enter the system first, which was not the case with Monkeysphere and his alts. It also requires you to know the exact location of the ratter and time how long will it take them to get through the NPC battleships left in the belt\anomaly. As far as I know bots got smarter and don't warp to the same belt they were in, making them almost impossible to catch.

dumpertt
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:36:00 - [1131]
 

Edited by: dumpertt on 23/04/2010 03:38:39
Edited by: dumpertt on 23/04/2010 03:38:03
Edited by: dumpertt on 23/04/2010 03:36:04
Originally by: Raivi


He doesn't need to do logoff traps for all his targets. People ratting without watching their screens and poorly coded macros (some of the ones that make you warp to a safe and cloak can be caught relatively quickly with probes). Strings of kills now and again are the main "proof" people are bringing, and the truth is those are when he gets easy targets. The logoff traps do take a bit more time (but not all that much).


yes. the winning strike proves nothing, same to timeline. i don't care will monkey be banned or not: "server log shows nothing". but if there is a way to cheat - i'd like it to be fixed as soon as possible. and if there is a guy who wins a lottery 10 times in a row - i'm pretty sure there is way to cheat.

that is why the investigation at eve-ru started.

Originally by: Dianeces

It could be that. Or it could be that he's been trapped in a wormhole since Monday. But don't let logic derail your witch hunt~


oh, didn't i say that is a coincedence? don't stop believin'.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:40:00 - [1132]
 

Edited by: Ranka Mei on 23/04/2010 03:45:11
Originally by: Dianeces

Or it could be that he's been trapped in a wormhole since Monday. But don't let logic derail your witch hunt~

People have spotted him in Jita local since. Who knows? Maybe he used his exploit to magically transport himself out of said wormhole? :)

dumpertt
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:45:00 - [1133]
 

Originally by: Manny theMiner
Well now.... I've never been accused of being the smartest pilot in NATO, or even smart in general, but I would wager that a dual box with the ratter in the addressbook would have a pretty good idea when to spring the log-onski TARP... and that most ratters return to the last chain they were ratting...


4 times in a row, in 4 different systems, in 20min for all, using a bs. repeat that, please.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:45:00 - [1134]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 23/04/2010 03:40:55
Originally by: dumpertt

Or it could be that he's been trapped in a wormhole since Monday. But don't let logic derail your witch hunt~

People have spotted him in Jita local since. Who knows? Maybe he used his exploit to magically transport himself out of said wormhole? :)

Who exactly has been seen in Jita local? I'm not disputing this, I just think you fail to comprehend even the basics of what is going on here.

Raivi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:48:00 - [1135]
 

Edited by: Raivi on 23/04/2010 03:50:38
Edited by: Raivi on 23/04/2010 03:49:05
Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte
Edited by: Ellatan Deruimte on 23/04/2010 03:33:44
Originally by: Raivi

Actually I'd classify all the bubble tricks as one trick, but yes, you've found the one I was saying is obvious. The video is done. Encoding it now and uploading to youtube.


Tiny problem with that. None of the incidents describe any sorts of bubbles or mobiles, just arazu suddenly appearing near them within 2-3 seconds of appearing in local channel. That arazu character was entering the system for the first time in several hours with no neutral traffic beforehand, so there isn't a possibility for a log off. Looking forward to that video though.


I'm working within the confines of the message posted by the OP, trusting that he's telling the truth. The concept that he'd been watching the system constantly for hours is not part of his story, although this would still be possible in that case, just harder. The specific trick I'm using in the video does not use a bubble (it's a separate game mechanic that I don't want to spread publicly at this time), but in cases of catching macros or players who log off when they see a hostile in local, dropping a normal interdictor bubble and then logging all your characters off in it works and will not show any bubble to the target if they stay logged off more than 2 minutes (not a stretch by any means).

My video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY553NVwgVA

The quality is poor while it finished processing but it's a 1600x900 video so once it's all done it will be quite sharp.
There is a 9 second delay between entering local and the domi being pointed because sisi was a bit slow acknowledging my decloak. It should be fast enough however to demonstrate that the ship appeared in space (cloaked) at the belt instead of e-warping. I may make another video with a cloaked hurricane or something to prove completely that the ship appears there instead of warping in.

I normally wouldn't take the risk that inserting a little reason into this thread might stop the flow of hilarious tears and speculation, but I think this troll has dug in enough that most people wouldn't accept any evidence so I'm not endangering the idiot supply.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:50:00 - [1136]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank

Who exactly has been seen in Jita local?

Who do you think? :) Read a few posts and you'll have your answer.

Daria Sol
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:53:00 - [1137]
 

Fix exploit it remove local chat in 0.0 Twisted Evil

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:54:00 - [1138]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Lady Spank

Who exactly has been seen in Jita local?

Who do you think? :) Read a few posts and you'll have your answer.

Thanks for your helpful reply. Rolling Eyes

Orephia
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:54:00 - [1139]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
People have spotted him in Jita local since. Who knows? Maybe he used his exploit

Damage con troll:
Originally by: karttoon
Toying around I've also discovered ways to join multiple local channels and speak in them remotely

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.23 03:57:00 - [1140]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 23/04/2010 03:45:11
Originally by: Dianeces

Or it could be that he's been trapped in a wormhole since Monday. But don't let logic derail your witch hunt~

People have spotted him in Jita local since. Who knows? Maybe he used his exploit to magically transport himself out of said wormhole? :)


Yeah, he got out today. Again, don't bother with facts when there are pitchforks to brandish.


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