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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:33:00 - [421]
 

Originally by: Zex Maxwell
CCP this is what I propose. Destroy everything that is out side the range of the DSSPs, doing so will still keep the use of DSSPs.

Would still be way too much. Even if you were to get a hit with a DSSP it would take forever to nail down due to the **** poor strength of the things (need to use set of combats).

Solution:
- Retask DSSP for deep-space exploration and have special explorations sites that spawn only in deep space.
- Use 16AU (1/4 Combat Probe range) as limit instead of the arbitrary 10AU.
- Allow warping to deep exploration sites, but keep restriction on BM/Cyno creation beyond the 16AU barrier.

Gives us:
- A place in Eve for DSSP,
- Insane time sink when making "deep" BMs (16AU takes a while to cover without bugs).
- New exploration (perhaps mini-arcs?) away from prying eyes.
- Potential safespots out of onboard scanner range.

10AU is a completely useless range with the insanely fast/accurate probing a skilled pilot can do.

ChronoLynx
Caldari
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:33:00 - [422]
 

Boo... Bad Idea....

Also, I will make sure to be docked for the patch. Never know what CCPs cleanup script will do. Knowing my luck it will wipe anything more than 10au from the star; not the 10au from a celestial body.

Robocop
D00M.
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:34:00 - [423]
 

i heard CCP actually plays EVE...

stellaemater
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:38:00 - [424]
 

Well... got just a few deeep safes and not that i'm using them that much. Anyway. Seems to me, here, that the will of CCP is to make almost everything scannable. If that's the way you going, guys, please also consider annoying cloaker alts and make those scannable (with combat probes only, maybe?) same as all the rest. Nothing p*ss*ng players off more than a darn hostile alt afk cloaked. Cloak should become a temporary tactical advantage in my honest opinion, not a systematic way to p*ss ppl off.
Afk. Cloaked. Cya.

Katrya Verna
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:40:00 - [425]
 

Thank you for totally ignoring lag and nerfing the workaround players have to deal with YOUR problem. Also thanks for making the decision for me, I'll be canceling 2 of my 3 accounts, and if Tyrannis is as horrible as it looks #3 will go too!

Tyremis
The Perfect Storm
Random-Violence
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:44:00 - [426]
 

Edited by: Tyremis on 13/04/2010 16:56:51

Absolutely terribad idea CCP. Fix the LAG FIX YOUR BROKEN GAME you want to call your game sandbox after this you would lose that right.

Canadian1
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:51:00 - [427]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: CCP Lemur
Dear players, the blog was published after I left the office and I just finished reading through all 11 pages.

This man posted a picture explaining all of the "but what with spots between two celestials?" concerns.

More changes are in discussion right now and I'll let you know as soon as we reached a decision.


After reading 11 pages you must have missed the important parts. Let me summarize them for you...

  1. Concerns about mid safes > 10au from a celestial object not working : These will work just fine as the player illustration indicates.
  2. Concerns around laggy grid loading on titan bridges and not having sufficient time to load the grid properly before the hostile fleet is on top of them and killing them : Legitimate concern
  3. Concerns about SuperCap pilots who had no other option except to log off at a deepsafe if they found themselves away from the game for an extended period of time (loss of job, military duty, moving house etc.), and will come back to a pod?? : Legitimate concern
  4. Concerns that CCP is focused on non-critical issues and continue to "add content" to a broken game. The overall fundamentals of the game are not working properly, players get frustrated when CCP works to remove or modify non-critical items (especially those used to help alleviate the broken conditions) : Legitimate concern



When you cannot jump through a gate, or engage a hostile in a PVP game, the fundamentals are simply broken. Players for the last several years have been giving CCP a very clear message, "We do not care about content or changes to the game as long as the issues surrounding lag exist". Yes we realize you are working on the lag issue, but honestly, until you focus on lag and nothing but lag, we don't want to hear about mining planets, removing deepsafe bookmarks, insurance changes etc. until you...

  1. Fix the existing lag issue
  2. Change your testing procedures to insure that the lag does not simply reappear during the next update as it always does.



"New Content" to your player base is a lag free (as much as possible), working game.

One more bit of feedback for you CCP. Everytime I talk to a friend that plays MMO's about Eve, they always say the same thing regarding Eve... "I have heard that you die to invisible enemies and there is nothing you can do about it". My reply is always, "Yeah, it sucks".

Brennah
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:54:00 - [428]
 

This is going to be fantastic, especially when unsubbed supercap pilots resub and come back to a pod. CCP is good at customer service.

Nekopyat
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:02:00 - [429]
 

Edited by: Nekopyat on 13/04/2010 17:11:57
Originally by: Robocop
i heard CCP actually plays EVE...


I think that is part of the problem.

An issue with playing your own game is you tend to loose perspective, esp if you are engaged in only a subset of activities. So this is something that is probably negativly effecting their characters and not being used by them.

Of course, it is also possible they are so enamored with their videos of fleets cynoing on top of each other ala-B5 that they are getting frustrated that people are not actually doing it that way...

Originally by: Canadian1
We do not care about content or changes to the game as long as the issues surrounding lag exist". Yes we realize you are working on the lag issue, but honestly, until you focus on lag and nothing but lag, we don't want to hear about mining planets, removing deepsafe bookmarks, insurance changes etc. until you...


Speak for yourself. I could care less about the lag issue. Lag only effects a minority of players, so stop talking about it as if it is the #1 issue for every single person. Now granted this minority is CCP's chosen people so their voices can get pretty loud.

Raidek
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:04:00 - [430]
 

Whats ****ty is I know of a few afk super caps that did just that. This is ******ed CCP. Nerf the method to make new ones and use existing ones, not what objects already out that far.

Step #1: Use Brain.

Johnnny B
Caldari
NailorTech Industries
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:16:00 - [431]
 

No matter what people say or do here it looks like CCP will do the nerf.

The real bad thing is destroying all the ships in the old deep-safe spots. i have quite a few of eve friends who are in the military and deployed in ongoing fights.
most of these guys have super caps in deep safes somewhere. These guys do no deserve to have their ships killed off while out there.

But then again CCP dont really care about their player base, only Dollars..
if all else fails keep your well erned cash in your pocket :)

Arch Alterius
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:17:00 - [432]
 

I'm getting the impression that people don't like this idea

Cassius Longinus
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:17:00 - [433]
 

Deep safes were always a pretty horrible mechanic, and were just used to meta around some pretty horrible game conditions.

Happy to see them go. Shame some of the conditions persist.

Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:23:00 - [434]
 

Quote:
This will place us firmly into a situation where the only way to access locations outside the system proper will be via "legacy" bookmarks. This creates a division between older "haves" and newer "have-nots":


OK, fair enough. When are you going to fix other similar situations in EvE, like T2 BPOs for example?

Narfas Deteis
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:36:00 - [435]
 

Originally by: Zaknussem

OK, fair enough. When are you going to fix other similar situations in EvE, like T2 BPOs for example?


Go buy one and stop whining.

Arakkis Melanogaster
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:40:00 - [436]
 

OK, now that you've gotten to here, go back and look at how all players in 0.0, no matter the side of the current conflict, are against the changes you are implementing here. MMO players as a whole are a whiny bunch of babbys, but when an entire population that is familiar with 0.0 mechanics is telling you it is a bad idea, it is a bad idea and needs revision. Take Dominion for example. Everyone told you that it was a terrible idea, and needed significant revision for the desired consequences to occur, with detailed examples and consequences. Many of those consequences have come about and Dominion has produced the opposite of the desired effects.

Argo Pyxis
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:47:00 - [437]
 

Edited by: Argo Pyxis on 13/04/2010 17:49:27
So the Poseidon Safe fix is good.

But on the topic of preventing a pilot from being a prisoner in his supercap lest it get stolen, CCP should consider implementing a "Boarding Password" feature for ship types which cannot dock.

Not only will it address the immediate issue of reasonably securing an expensive ship so that a pilot isn't effectively chained to it, but it's also more realistic to have. A secure container floating in highsec offers more security than a Titan when it comes to accessing it? Really?

/AP

Yakumo Smith
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:59:00 - [438]
 

Insta popping ships outside a specific range is a bad idea.

Moving them closer would resolve the issue.

You don't solve the problem of large systems where players can create BM's 100+ AU from the sun. You'll still have your have/have nots/

You still haven't answered the questions within that ask about 10AU + 10km from a MWD. Those will be the new super spots to hide in, warp just short of the 10AU, burn away from the sun and blam, untouchable...as you've seen with the deep safe spots (I consider my spots of 1800AU to be on the short side compared to others) people will make the effort to create a BM like this and with even a relatively basic inty travelling 500000km in 23 hours it'll be doable.

TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:01:00 - [439]
 

Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 13/04/2010 18:03:46

What are they fixing: Deep safes
What did absolutely ****ing no one complain about: Deep safes.
What have they not fixed: Lag
What is every ****ing null sec player in eve complaining about: Lag

Deep deep safes came around from primarily the massive lag caused by ccps inability to code and then inability to fix this. Absolutely no ****ing progress made on this front to the point where EVE is now a "login all your alts and get in the system 6 hours early so no one can load in, and if they do, they won't fire their guns" . But yeah sure deep safes that helped people get enough time to grid load before the **** train began are haram ugh

If ccp don't fix the lag in tyrannis, and combine it with this fix, i see a lot of problems for them.

Thank you ccp, you have now given your systems walls, and removed the one thing that could get a fleet to load grid in time(which we shouldnt have to do had you fixed the ****ing lag) .

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:02:00 - [440]
 

Edited by: War Kitten on 13/04/2010 18:03:00
WTB Cheese!

Seriously people, learn to read. Farthest celestial + 10au is the limit, in *any* direction from the sun, is the farthest you can BM. If you needed the picture, you're probably paste on someone's killboard many times over, but we're glad you play the game.

Lag: Addressed in a separate devblog, (http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=727) quit changing the subject. They're working on it. You can't throw 100% of your dev team at one problem just like you can't have 100 people digging the same hole.

T2 BPO comparisons: yeah, its the same thing as a bookmark.

The only legit complaint I see is the auto-destruct of assets. Please to be putting them all at the sun instead where we can save the time of scanning it all down before absconding with it or transmorgrifying it all into salvage.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:02:00 - [441]
 

Maybe it's faster to load a finite space rather then an infinite space.

Maybe they aren't saying it because they don't want people to intentionally exploit a way to increase lag 10,000% by warping a shuttle some place..

Kevin Kappel
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:02:00 - [442]
 

What a load of crock.....

Destroying yet another tactical gameplay..

Let's kill kill kill, insta gratification... it must not take any real effort in any form or shape to do it....

WOOOOOOOOW i think i've seen this game somewhere else.. now where was that hmmm....


TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:07:00 - [443]
 

All of nullsec, no matter what side of the current great war they are on are completely against these changes, they serve no purpose except to **** over people who need to enter a system(god forbid) when there is an alliance/coalition level fight to be had.

Neyko Turama
Minmatar
RAGNAROK INDUSTRY
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:13:00 - [444]
 

CCP please, instead of nerfing stuff of any kind and adding shiny harvestable planets and ****, put more juice into the lag fixing department. If there's such.
All in all, this sometimes looks like: "Oh problems! Let's add more, they'll forget about the others"


Come onRolling Eyes

Jill'iam
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:15:00 - [445]
 

Instead of fixing lag issues with fleet battles, they fix safe spots. Being able to loading grid @ a 600au safe spot and to be ABLE to fight is wrong, CCP wants you to loose your ships to lag not gun fire. I remeber the battle for Y8R in gem, as others probably do to. No fight would have happened without them.

Instead of fixing lag issues, CCP is taking out another expansion... which might also cause more lag issues with fleet battle. But again, the fixed something... somewhere, that was useful.... but unfair somehow. Wait what lag??


Where's the logic?

Clyde ElectraGlide
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:15:00 - [446]
 

I don't care much about the change to stuff being destroyed out in deep safes (which seems a bit much anyways, just moving them back into the fly-able areas of the system would be ok) as I've never really intended to keep stuff out there for long periods of time, but what gets me is the whole "space is limitless" thing won't really apply anymore. I can understand in games like xxx that have invisible boundaries because of the world being so big and having to stay because most of the action happens in that confined area, but with this from what I understand there has been no real issue with just warping constantly away from a star just to make it look like your ship is in another system on the map for teh lolz.

In hindsight, for the average empireer like me, it won't make much of a difference, but I guess as many people have mentioned already, the implications of this seem to be more hard-hitting in null where the blobtastic battles are happening, and using deep space as the only way to get in without getting blackscreened. I know that there's been a lot of tests to fix the lag, and hopefully later the lag does get fixed, but from my point of view it doesn't make sense to just get rid of something that has been used as a possible way out from the lag, and following death.

Just my thoughts, but again, the main issue for me is still that the possibility to do something that was not a problem in the first place will now not be able to happen come Tyrannis, or "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:17:00 - [447]
 

During past fanfest the dicussion was " How to get more people to 0.0" . Now that the player base has found away to move into 0.0 and live and take advantage of the area, CCP is going to take it away. There are alot of people who live at deep safes cause it is fun and it feels like real space. They set up refugee camps and mine and do other stuff with out having to set up a POS just to have it taken down by one of the big boys.

Deep safes created an even playing field between older players and newer ones. A newer player who want to get out to 0.0 could survive and thrive using deep safes. You call this a sand box but the player base called it a beach. The deep safe ability was found by us the players and is out there for everyone to use and take advantage of and now CCP wants to regulate it and take it away. Honestly CCP Iam disappointed, will I quit NO. But you are becoming something that you honestly tried to avoid for years. Please do not regulate us, enjoy are ability to create with in your game with out your help and honor it. leave the deep safes alone they have help us more then hurt us. These spots are nothing more then player develope and created worm holes. They have made the fighting in 0.0 even by allowing everyone to get into system and not die to the black screen of not loading. you should reward us for making eve bigger and space endless area as it is now

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:17:00 - [448]
 

Originally by: War Kitten

The only legit complaint I see is the auto-destruct of assets. Please to be putting them all at the sun instead where we can save the time of scanning it all down before absconding with it or transmorgrifying it all into salvage.



This isn't the only one. A lot of players are unhappy about the lack of lag fix and this being the only way around it. Lets assume for a minute that lag was fixed... I STILL WOULD NOT BE HAPPY ABOUT THIS! I don't even fly cap ships or use deep safes. Why would I be unhappy then you ask?

Because I am now limited to a big room with highways (lines between warp-able objects). Maybe if I use mission bookmarks I can get outside these narrow lines a bit, at most 10AU away from a celestial (yes, I know, more if it's in a straight line, I understand the pictures, etc). What happened to the sandbox space game I was playing? It's now not as much of a sandbox, I can't play in it with my own rules, if they aren't the devs rules they are a "bug" and a OMGWTF GIANT NERFBAT will be used to correct them, and it might as well not be space because I can't go anywhere that isn't close to, or in direct line between, two warpable objects.

F*** THAT! Not to mention destroying Deep Space Probes

Again, if, for reasons of server stability, the HAVE to put limits on a solar system, it should be -at least- 500AU so that we still have room to play and DSP's are still useful.

Also, if for reasons of e-warp abuse (other than creating said safes, such as logoffsky macro miners), they have to destroy the posidon method, then introduce a way to make deep safes. This way new players -can- make them, as well as old, though this method should be neither easy nor fast IMO. The argument that it's not fair to newer doesn't hold water in light of T2 BPO's and Trophy Ships, really no argument about removing this holds water.

I see a LOT of *****ing on these forums about different things, cloaking, T2 BPO's, logoffsky tactics, lag. I don't think I've ever seen *****ing about deep safes... until now that is, and all that *****ing seems to be directed at CCP in the form of "we're ****ed, don't do this"

Lamasul
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:19:00 - [449]
 

Another interesting Question:

What is when i log off in a Wormhole system an warp out of the 10 AU area?
How far will i warp away on log off?

Neyko Turama
Minmatar
RAGNAROK INDUSTRY
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:24:00 - [450]
 

Originally by: DNSBLACK
You call this a sand box but the player base called it a beach.


win


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