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blankseplocked Daisho Syndicate admits to Slavery.
 
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.04.13 06:36:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: D melanogaster
Originally by: Sapphrine

And in Gallente areas there's this tiny thing called Consent.....


I didn't think 8-year-old boys were legally allowed to grant consent..


You're getting confused. 8 year old boys are a priest hood thing.... amarr remember?

Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.04.13 06:49:00 - [32]
 

SF and Daisho, I suggest you run your diplomacy in private rather than on IGS.

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.04.13 06:59:00 - [33]
 


You would think after having this systems, complete with stations, handed to them on a platter, this Daisho alliance would be somewhat more humble.

While they may be long time foes, Ushra'Khan and The Star Fraction have fought long and hard and have earned at least some respect for that. Daisho has a long road yet to travel in that department.

Of course, since Daisho Sovereignty is secured by their great master, then it is very easy to be arrogant. Their space cannot be taken by their neighbours and so they can rest easy without any real threat to their space. Somehow, to me, this will weaken the occupants of such space more than any previous style of occupation ever seen in the cluster.

So rest easy, young Daisho, and weild your mighty toys as you will. But know that you live in a very dynamic universe and it is not unusual for even very great alliances to vanish literally overnight.

Without your mighty master to secure your space you may find holding on to such space somewhat more challenging.

claire xxx
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.13 07:07:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Xina Tutor
While they may be long time foes, Ushra'Khan and The Star Fraction have fought long and hard and have earned at least some respect for that.


Xina,

You are as gracious on the Summit as you are a formidable in space.

Claire XXX

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.13 07:08:00 - [35]
 

Quote:
The Star Fraction is philosophically-opposed to the notion of closed territory

Well until they set SF blue, then your principles are pretty much gone.

TatooHead
KINGS OF EDEN
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.04.13 09:14:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: TatooHead on 13/04/2010 09:15:07
Edited by: TatooHead on 13/04/2010 09:14:55
Edited by: TatooHead on 13/04/2010 09:14:32
Last night while bothering with some stuck pos modules I overheard a chat in KBP local and was tbh very happy to see SF realizing that the new provi wouldn't be any diferent then the old provi. We lost our space being pushed by the biggest nap fest eve has seen, now that nap fest installed a pet which has some but very weak capital training and even that is as one of the SF guys said very undefended. I'm looking forward to SF showing them how hard it is to rat in triangle with their bomber wolfpack just around the cornerLaughing

Rattlesnake anyoneLaughing (SF knows what I mean)

In my eyes daisho will live as long as the big boys are defending their ass. The very moment eve finds out the overlods don't support them anymore....

there is a saying....hell has no fury like a woman....well woman has no fury like furi's boysTwisted Evil

Mirxa's Slave
FCON Aerarium Militare
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.04.13 10:03:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Mirxa''s Slave on 13/04/2010 10:04:05
Originally by: Darth Sith
All that is required to stop all this nonsense is for SF to respect the sovereign territory of Daisho


While a humble individual such as myself finds it hard to understand Jade's rhetoric, isn't this simply impossible? The very concept of sovereign territory is a negation of free space.

At least, thats what I thought...

Jonathan Swift
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.04.13 10:13:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote:
The Star Fraction is philosophically-opposed to the notion of closed territory

Well until they set SF blue, then your principles are pretty much gone.


Not at all. We travel where we want to regardless of how the "closed territory owners" have tagged our pilots. Sometimes we are "killed on sight" and sometimes we just pass through the next stargate. It's the way of the universe and the core of the free space movement. I don't really see how other corporations having us blue, red or neutral, should nullify any of Star Fractions principles.

Oh, and btw, why quote half a sentence Furby?


Iteken Hotori
Minmatar
The Flowing Penguins
Posted - 2010.04.13 10:44:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: TatooHead
Edited by: TatooHead on 13/04/2010 09:15:07
Edited by: TatooHead on 13/04/2010 09:14:55
Edited by: TatooHead on 13/04/2010 09:14:32 We lost our space being pushed by the biggest nap fest eve has seen, now that nap fest installed a pet


Since your posting is as appalling as your ability to take and hold space i'll clear up a few simple facts for you.

1) The forces which shredded your pathetic corner of morally bankrupt proto-empire are no Nap-Fest. If you want one of those, look north where all and sundry are drafted into the "Great war" on one side or another, creating this NAP-Fest. Atlas, UK and -A- are space brosefs, and took your space because they could.

2) There are no pets in the New Providence. The space was taken FROM CVA and their Holders, and given to a nice spread of alliances who will turn it into New Providence. This new, and unique, anarcho-capitalist structure of space will be fun to watch.

You would have known this if you along with your CVA 'masters' had Logged in and bothered fighting. You should speak with Paxton, they have gained great respect from -A-/U'K by at least showing up and giving it a go.

They went with a Bang. You didn't even have the balls to go with a whimper, but slink back into space weeks after the event to try to salvage your junk from space.

There is another saying:
"If willingness to fight maketh a man, Daisho are surely more man than you."

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.04.13 11:06:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Iteken Hotori

1) The forces which shredded your pathetic corner of morally bankrupt proto-empire are no Nap-Fest. If you want one of those, look north where all and sundry are drafted into the "Great war" on one side or another, creating this NAP-Fest. Atlas, UK and -A- are space brosefs, and took your space because they could.



So they were all red to each other? Ah no... probably not. Anyway. They couldn't do it alone so they did it together. And we walked away with our stuff, so no real loss. Some pilots seem to become far too attached to a particular 'space'. I don't have that defect.

Originally by: Iteken Hotori

2) There are no pets in the New Providence. The space was taken FROM CVA and their Holders, and given to a nice spread of alliances who will turn it into New Providence. This new, and unique, anarcho-capitalist structure of space will be fun to watch.



So not pets... More like an ant farm. Some little ant guys you can watch and play with and squash as you wish. Sounds cool. I hope you guys have fun with that. I flew through there a couple of times lately and it looks like you need more ants.

Originally by: Iteken Hotori

You would have known this if you along with your CVA 'masters' had Logged in and bothered fighting. You should speak with Paxton, they have gained great respect from -A-/U'K by at least showing up and giving it a go.

They went with a Bang. You didn't even have the balls to go with a whimper, but slink back into space weeks after the event to try to salvage your junk from space.



Or... Retreat with all your stuff and fight later. It has been fun shooting atlas in the north, for sure.

And yes. Some more worthless assets were left to be destroyed. But the new residents were so inept it was fun to walk in and fly out assets. I spent an hour flying worthless empty mammoths I had dumped out of a POS into space through a Daisho Dital gate camp for fun, until it became just too embarrassing.

Originally by: Iteken Hotori

There is another saying:
"If willingness to fight maketh a man, Daisho are surely more man than you."


I must admit I never saw Daisho fight. I saw them run and die a little. It looks like I wont be in the area to see them do any more.

And... I'm a girl. So any man is more of a man than me I suppose.


Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.13 11:13:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Swift
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote:
The Star Fraction is philosophically-opposed to the notion of closed territory

Well until they set SF blue, then your principles are pretty much gone.


Not at all. We travel where we want to regardless of how the "closed territory owners" have tagged our pilots. Sometimes we are "killed on sight" and sometimes we just pass through the next stargate. It's the way of the universe and the core of the free space movement. I don't really see how other corporations having us blue, red or neutral, should nullify any of Star Fractions principles.

Oh, and btw, why quote half a sentence Furby?



Because the rest of the sentence wasnt relevant, and quoting only half didnt leave parts out which would change the meaning.

Anyway, You had no problems being friends when they had you blue. Even though then they also shoot every other random neutral who wanted to enjoy providence, so they clearly arent all into freespace stuff. You napped UK although they are already nbsi for a long time. But just because they have you blue, so they dont shoot you, it is all fine. Even though it is still closed territory, just not for SF. So you arent that philosophically opposed, you are only opposed if it directly affects you.

Roderz
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.04.13 11:51:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Iteken Hotori
Originally by: TatooHead
Edited by: TatooHead on 13/04/2010 09:15:07
Edited by: TatooHead on 13/04/2010 09:14:55
Edited by: TatooHead on 13/04/2010 09:14:32 We lost our space being pushed by the biggest nap fest eve has seen, now that nap fest installed a pet


Since your posting is as appalling as your ability to take and hold space i'll clear up a few simple facts for you.

1) The forces which shredded your pathetic corner of morally bankrupt proto-empire are no Nap-Fest. If you want one of those, look north where all and sundry are drafted into the "Great war" on one side or another, creating this NAP-Fest. Atlas, UK and -A- are space brosefs, and took your space because they could.

2) There are no pets in the New Providence. The space was taken FROM CVA and their Holders, and given to a nice spread of alliances who will turn it into New Providence. This new, and unique, anarcho-capitalist structure of space will be fun to watch.

You would have known this if you along with your CVA 'masters' had Logged in and bothered fighting. You should speak with Paxton, they have gained great respect from -A-/U'K by at least showing up and giving it a go.

They went with a Bang. You didn't even have the balls to go with a whimper, but slink back into space weeks after the event to try to salvage your junk from space.

There is another saying:
"If willingness to fight maketh a man, Daisho are surely more man than you."



You sir obviously have no clue. Cold steel and -7- lost there space in a blitzkreeg action, this is after an atlas/-A-/uk fleet was destroyed and its remants orderd to leave the system, XHQ where they then destroyed the SBU's anchored there.This was followed closely by Bobby going emo on atlas voicecoms and ordering the blitzkreeg action and all available pilots to 100% CTA's so the embarrasment of loosing to the carebears wouldn't happen again.

Also, after the debacle where provibloc lost them 100 caps, remember when they jumped into you and didn't load, CVA and other holder leaders decided then that they couldn't defend against your numbers and decided to just let u have the systems without significant defence.

On the part where u say there is no pets in new providence, i ask have u actually read Manfreds post on your forums?, if not its leaked everywhere where
he says he is re seeding providence, then gonna reset them and then farm them, also where he says there will be no sov contentions without -A- say so kinda points that there pets placed there as a buffer.

http://tinypaste.com/48f35 there ya go u can read it there.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2010.04.13 14:04:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Xina Tutor
They couldn't do it alone so they did it together.


Unfortunately for your ego, AAA easily could. It would just take insanely much longer.

If holders decided to defend themselves by not fighting and waiting for people to grind through an insane number of station (something that would have to be done, if not for hilarious SOV failures by some holders) and possibly get bored (exceptions have my respect, hell for a while even severance was the exception), it only seems logical for people to get some more firepower and get the grind done faster, don't you think?

Velios
M. Corp
M. PIRE
Posted - 2010.04.13 15:21:00 - [44]
 

Very much hoping that the current events don't spiral out of control. Personally I think there is much more to be gained from harmony rather than discord.


Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:06:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Velios
Very much hoping that the current events don't spiral out of control. Personally I think there is much more to be gained from harmony rather than discord.




Thats certainly true - however, in my opinion harmony goes hand in hand with respecting mutual agreements and is quite exclusive with accusing blues of giving out intel without backing evidence and shooting them out of pure paranoia.

Also, there will be no harmony in Providence as long as holder alliances commit to supporting slavery - but you know that, so I assume your pilots have been told not to brag about killing or owning slaves in local anymore.

Lucai
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:43:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Lucai on 13/04/2010 16:46:24

Originally by: Darveses
Originally by: Velios
Very much hoping that the current events don't spiral out of control. Personally I think there is much more to be gained from harmony rather than discord.



Thats certainly true - however, in my opinion harmony goes hand in hand with respecting mutual agreements and is quite exclusive with accusing blues of giving out intel without backing evidence and shooting them out of pure paranoia.

Also, there will be no harmony in Providence as long as holder alliances commit to supporting slavery - but you know that, so I assume your pilots have been told not to brag about killing or owning slaves in local anymore.


I tend to generally agree, but the current Daisho inhabitants of Providence are I think still a rather newly wed and culturally diverse bunch.

So generalizations are currently not helping. There are some Daisho pilots who seem to have very questionable opinions about slaves and the Minmatar cause, but I think there are others who I would call pro-Minmatar from my experience.

The issue at hand then is of course, can there be harmony about these questions within Daisho, if pilots need to be ordered not to speak their mind.

Before there is harmony within, harmony with outside entities is hard to achieve, and discord inevitably results.

A very on topic example are prior Daisho and SF diplomatic relations and agreements being broken by the trigger-happy, apparantly slightly paranoid actions of a single Daisho pilot (I dont care what his rank is), leading to the discord at hand.

From the outside, it rather looks like it was an action on the spur of the moment, out of paranoia. If thats the case, Daisho members at large should ask themselves if that action was in their best interests.

Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2010.04.13 16:50:00 - [47]
 

If I were in SF's position, and a member of a corp I had made a free-roam agreement with was causing trouble in one of my sovereign systems verbally, I would take the following steps:

1) Ask the member to leave - Check
2) If that fails, ask a superior to have them leave - Check
3) If that fails, ask my members to ignore the troublemaker, then begin peaceful renegotiation with the other corporation on my 'house rules' - Failed
4) If that fails (And when dealing with anarchists it likely would: They don't accept the idea of 'house rules') remove whatever free roaming priveleges you gave them and treat any members in your space as intruders - Failed previous step, invalid

So yes, Daisho committed a faux pas here, but in reality step 3 wouldn't have worked and step four would have been taken anyway. So while I agree with SF's 'They shouldn't have shot us' claim, I don't really see how Daisho properly conducting themselves would have actually changed the long or even mid-term results.

Lucai
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.04.13 17:21:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Lucai on 13/04/2010 17:33:01

Originally by: Jakiin
If I were in SF's position, and a member of a corp I had made a free-roam agreement with was causing trouble in one of my sovereign systems verbally, I would take the following steps:

1) Ask the member to leave - Check
2) If that fails, ask a superior to have them leave - Check
3) If that fails, ask my members to ignore the troublemaker, then begin peaceful renegotiation with the other corporation on my 'house rules' - Failed
4) If that fails (And when dealing with anarchists it likely would: They don't accept the idea of 'house rules') remove whatever free roaming priveleges you gave them and treat any members in your space as intruders - Failed previous step, invalid

So yes, Daisho committed a faux pas here, but in reality step 3 wouldn't have worked and step four would have been taken anyway. So while I agree with SF's 'They shouldn't have shot us' claim, I don't really see how Daisho properly conducting themselves would have actually changed the long or even mid-term results.


Your post is not without logic, sadly that logic only applies to your imagination.
Which SF pilot did misbehave and how?

What we have at hand is one trigger-happy Daisho pilot bullying a pilot of an alliance he has a free-roam agreement with for no reason, and then shooting him and spreading lies trying to make his actions justified.
If thats how they adhere to treaties, their diplomacy is not worth the bandwidth used to transmit it.

And your idle train of thought about mid or long-term results is a bit naive, even for you.
You are essentially saying that Daisho standard diplomatic and decision making procedures will long-term always come to the same result as one paranoid hothead opening fire on blues?

Thats a very nice picture you draw of Daisho there Very Happy


*After seeing Jakiins post, Lucai starts a countdown to the arrival of Merdaneth and Archbishop on the scene to make the usual happy little crowd complete.*

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:35:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Xina Tutor
They couldn't do it alone so they did it together.


Unfortunately for your ego, AAA easily could. It would just take insanely much longer.

If holders decided to defend themselves by not fighting and waiting for people to grind through an insane number of station (something that would have to be done, if not for hilarious SOV failures by some holders) and possibly get bored (exceptions have my respect, hell for a while even severance was the exception), it only seems logical for people to get some more firepower and get the grind done faster, don't you think?



-A- alone, sure. UK alone, of course not. Could even UK, Daisho and Sodalitas have taken the space combined? I very much doubt it.

In the end, however, the great joy comes in knowing we did force the rage in Mr Atlas and the attack in overwhelming numbers.

As I said at the time, their pilots in equal numbers are excrement, and we showed that in XHQ. However they came in such numbers we would simply drown in the sewer. And so we departed.

I couldn't stand the smell anyway.

Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2010.04.13 23:52:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Lucai
Your post is not without logic, sadly that logic only applies to your imagination.


Now you know how the rest of us feel.

Quote:
Which SF pilot did misbehave and how?


"Backtalking" I believe was the complaint. Generally when you're asked by an sovereignty holder to leave their system, you don't sit around and demand to be serviced. You leave the system and then demand to be serviced.

Quote:
[1]What we have at hand is one trigger-happy Daisho pilot bullying a pilot of an alliance he has a free-roam agreement with for no reason, and then shooting him and spreading lies trying to make his actions justified.
If thats how they adhere to treaties, their diplomacy is not worth the bandwidth used to transmit it.


Actually he had a reason. It might not be a reason you agree with, but he had a reason.

Quote:
And your idle train of thought about mid or long-term results is a bit naive, even for you.
You are essentially saying that Daisho standard diplomatic and decision making procedures will long-term always come to the same result as one paranoid hothead opening fire on blues?

Thats a very nice picture you draw of Daisho there Very Happy



Note that step three was

Originally by: Handsome
...begin peaceful renegotiation with the other corporation on my 'house rules'


But, since Constantine said

Originally by: Constantine
What you need to understand is that SF will not give up our rights to travel as we choose...


I highly doubt this would work. I only claimed that in this case the reasults would be the same since you, being anarchists, don't recognize the right of people to deny others access to their space. The end result would have been war anyway but had they done something like this to one of the 'regressive imperialist tyrants' that believe in territory control then it would have triggered a war that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Quote:
*After seeing Jakiins post, Lucai starts a countdown to the arrival of Merdaneth and Archbishop on the scene to make the usual happy little crowd complete.*


I would hardly consider my past experience with PIE to be happy...

Straikur
KINGS OF EDEN
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.04.14 00:11:00 - [51]
 

I think that it's a shame that this thread, like so many others, has been derailed so spectacularly. The bottom line is this:

Did Daisho break the terms of an established "Free Travel" agreement? If so, did they do so for good reason? If not, are they willing to accept the consequences of fighting a foe like The Free Captains? Further, by obviously accepting the premise of slavery in an open and public channel such as that provided by local, are they willing to alienate a large portion of their ally base, namely U'K? If they are, then I foresee interesting times ahead for Daisho pilots.

Lastly, are the 4ever brosefs of Sodalitas going to support their bosom-buddies Daisho Syndicate? Oh, the politics! Oh, baby! Warm up the black ops, Free Captains, and let slip the covert cynos of WAR!


P.S. Nice catch, Suitonia!

Karn Mithralia
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.04.14 10:43:00 - [52]
 

If there was truth to the slavery taunts in local U'K would take it seriously, it seems however they were just that - taunts.

This is something U'K gets a lot, pretty much when anyone wants to get a rise out of us. Sure, we consider those doing it to be idiots, but smacktalk is not something we go to war over. Unless we're bored. Cool

As for exciting politics, I can only applaud. Strength through opposition, the sharpened sword gathers no rust and all that.

Velios
M. Corp
M. PIRE
Posted - 2010.04.14 11:16:00 - [53]
 

Star Fraction and Daisho have once again reached a common agreement. I feel that it is surely good news for the region that matters can be resolved through discussion.

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.04.14 11:17:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Karn Mithralia

This is something U'K gets a lot, pretty much when anyone wants to get a rise out of us. Sure, we consider those doing it to be idiots, but smacktalk is not something we go to war over. Unless we're bored. Cool



Well at least there is no chance of getting bored down there in Providence at the moment...


Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2010.04.14 14:25:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Velios
Star Fraction and Daisho have once again reached a common agreement. I feel that it is surely good news for the region that matters can be resolved through discussion.


So which one of you did -A- threaten to evict from Providence? If it was both, I think my respect for them just went up a little.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.04.14 15:17:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 14/04/2010 15:22:38

I have to correct Velios to a degree.

It is true that we are discussing peace terms presently. SF have provided Daisho Syndicate with a form of text that would potentially allow a peace settlement but as of this moment I have not received word from collective Daisho leadership that they are prepared to accept this text.

If and when Daisho Syndicate leadership tell me that they are happy with the settlement I will trigger a formal vote of the full Star Fraction membership for 48 hours that will decide whether they are happy for the SF leadership to ratify the ceasefire and ongoing truce.

I hope everyone can appreciate that the business of wiping a record clean from previous diplomatic breach and blue on blue shooting is more complicated than simply setting blue standings in the first place and the Star Fraction being an democratic organization at heart requires the support of the council of Free Captains to undo a hostile status set in these circumstances.

Until agreement is made and ratified then I confirm there is mutual red standings between Star Fraction and Daisho Syndicate and conflict in space continues.

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2010.04.14 15:58:00 - [57]
 

I certainly hope that Daisho and SF can diplomatically resolve their issues... there can be no friendship without compromise.


Syyl'ara
Gallente
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2010.04.14 19:00:00 - [58]
 

One person's "compromise" is another's "capitulation".

So apparently it is ok to make certain concessions in order to have access to benefits otherwise unavailable?

The inconsistencies in application of this idea always seem to line up with what will bring the accuser/apologist the most personal gain, but are purported to appeal to some unspoken objective morality.

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.04.14 19:22:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Syyl'ara
One person's "compromise" is another's "capitulation".

So apparently it is ok to make certain concessions in order to have access to benefits otherwise unavailable?

The inconsistencies in application of this idea always seem to line up with what will bring the accuser/apologist the most personal gain, but are purported to appeal to some unspoken objective morality.


Well I do think all the new alliances in the area can look forward to a bit of a learning curve. We were accused of all sorts of things, including slavery and capitulation and enclosurism and all the rest. But of course many compromises are made for the sake of peace and the greater good. These pilots will learn these things over time.

But of course there are some things that you simply cannot accept and there you make a stand. I sincerely hope Star Fraction does draw the line when it comes to their core belief and does make a stand here.


Xlost
Gallente
M. Corp
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2010.04.14 20:05:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Xlost on 14/04/2010 20:06:54
Jade is correct Daisho and SF are working on an agreement, which Daisho leadership plan to have back to SF very shortly (Had to go on travel for work). With both alliances knowing this small feud would distract both entities from the overall task, we thought it would be good to see if we could come up with an agreement.

UK leadership the previous night contacted some of the Daisho leadership, and help us understand a little more into the RP aspect of EvE. To be frank we were clueless as a leadership.

Jade and myself had a talk for a good bit of time yesterday to understand each others alliances better. Daisho mostly formed of M. Corp, Sin. Corp which are used to a territorial type of politics, while SF are FreeMovers. (sorry if I get that wrong). This is where most of the confusion and why the incident happened. There is alot more to it, but I am away on work, and can't type to much.

I appologize if my wording is not in an RP format.



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