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Nakotz
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.11 21:40:00 - [1]
 

Hi guys

I'm looking for a little guidance in regard to career paths. I'm relatively still new, 1.9m SP, mostly into drones as I tend to use them for a lot of my damage. I started off thinking I would be the explorer type but have found myself drawn more to pve mission running, not that I don't want to go back to this in the future.

So I've ruled out mining, manufacturing, markets, not my game. I'm currently running L2 missions in a BC, which may sound like overkill but to be honest, L3 missions are a little too much for me at the moment, that's one of my main problems. I tried a L3 the other day and before I realised what was happening I was locked on by 8 or so, I dropped my drones but had to quickly draw them back as my shields had gone and my armour was dropping fast, even with 2 med reps going and hardeners. I'm not sure what to do about this apart from spending 4 months running L2 while my skills train, so what are my options? Pvp will be an option in the future I guess.

I'm just a little bored of doing no damage and just waiting for my drones to kill everything Smile I do have to admit I'm lazy in these lower missions as I used a salvager and tractor beam in my setup, takes too long to return back to places. I even salvage in fights while my drones are killing everything.

I suppose to see my skills you can view my character here: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Nakotz

I always use light drones, my mediums just seem to take too long to kill everything! It's really annoying but I do have a plan (2d) for the next level of increased damage.

While I'm here, how does exploring go? I like the idea of having a cloakable ship, but after reading posts about cloaking they seem a little limited. I suppose they could be used to find places and then bookmark to return later in a ship capable of killing things Smile but then you lose safe passage.

Anyway, I suppose joining a corp would help with guidance, but was wondering if anyone here had any ideas, I love the game and have subbed for the next 3 months so it's not like I'm going anywhere, I just need a little helping hand in finding my footing Smile

Cheers
Nakotz

P.S
I love the look of the Megathon, so it's something that I do have planned for sometime in the future.

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.12 00:40:00 - [2]
 

Drones (and guns, and missiles too) are designed to not be able to hit and do much damage to smaller targets. So, you do want to use medium drones vs. cruiser sized ships, and want to use small drones vs. frigate ships. Supplement your drone damage with guns (probably small, to get rid of frigate tacklers).

As far as defenses, by the time you get to cruisers and battlecruisers, you're supposed to have decent support skills (the "energy" skills in the Engineering group to 3-4, the "repair" and "armor" parts of Mechanic to same, etc). A viable tactic for cruiser and battlecruiser defense is to install oversized (large - 1600mm) plates for a big buffer to your armor (or if you use shields, the equivalent module - large shield extenders). Add a few resistance modules, and one repairer should be sufficient.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.04.12 03:39:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Nakotz
So I've ruled out mining, manufacturing, markets, not my game. I'm currently running L2 missions in a BC, which may sound like overkill but to be honest, L3 missions are a little too much for me at the moment, that's one of my main problems. I tried a L3 the other day and before I realised what was happening I was locked on by 8 or so, I dropped my drones but had to quickly draw them back as my shields had gone and my armour was dropping fast, even with 2 med reps going and hardeners. I'm not sure what to do about this apart from spending 4 months running L2 while my skills train, so what are my options? Pvp will be an option in the future I guess.

I always use light drones, my mediums just seem to take too long to kill everything! It's really annoying but I do have a plan (2d) for the next level of increased damage.



It might not be your skills that are the problem. It might be how you are fitting and using the ship that is causing issues.

If you don't mind, could you post the ship its fitting?

As for your drones... yes, mediums are way slower then the lights. But when your skills are good enough they can rip through frigs, cruisers, and even some battleship rats.

You also mentioned the Megathron as a ship you are shooting towards. I hate to burst your bubble by the Mega is a gunboat (and quite an awesome one at that provided that you can get in range) and won't compliment your drone skills very well. The Dominix, while looking like a shoe/mutated potato, is quite comfortable with Drone and gives them a bonus in damage and HP.

Nakotz
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.12 06:41:00 - [4]
 

Thanks for the information, it's a shame it looks like it does.... I suppose looks aren't everything Confused

Here is the setup I tried to use for a L3, which turned out... well... I took structure damage within minutes:

Myrmidon (I can stand how this one looks)

High
200MM Compressed Coil Gun I x 6 (or 4 depends if I'm lazy with salvaging)

Med
Cap Recharger II x 4
10MN After Burning I

Low
Med Rep I x 2
EANM II
Explosive Hardener II
Kinetic Hardener II
Thermic Hardener II

(Cost me a small fortune)

So I guess it's a matter of working on support skills, probably going to drive me crazy not being able to move to L3's, I dread to think how long it'll take to work towards 4's, not looking forward to driving the shoe Very Happy

Cheers
Nakotz


ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.04.12 07:15:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 12/04/2010 09:05:13
Edited by: ShahFluffers on 12/04/2010 09:00:26
Edited by: ShahFluffers on 12/04/2010 07:29:54
Your fit looks pretty decent... though I might suggest a few "slight" alterations.

~ Make all your hardeners "rat specific"... by that I mean, only use hardeners that counter the rat's damage types. For example: Against Serpentis and Guristas use Kinetic and Thermal Hardeners. Against Angels use Kinetic and Explosive hardeners. Sansha, EM and Thermal.
Likewise, use the aforementioned damage types against said factions to kill them faster/better (basically send Gallente drones against everything except Angels, use Minmitar drones for that).

You can usually tell what faction you are up against by checking the mission log. If it doesn't say what faction it is then fit Thermal and Kenetic hardeners/damage as it is probably mercenary rats.

~ get some rigs... namely, Auxiliary Nano Pump (increases repair amount) and Capacitor Control Circuit (increases cap recharge, meaning you need less cap mods). These rigs will supplement your lacking skills until you advance them.

~ you don't have to use railguns. The Myrmidon doesn't get a bonus for using a specific weapon type, so feel free to use autocannons or artillery which don't use any cap and [generally] have better tracking.

~ are you moving around? Even without an afterburner, moving mitigates some of the incoming damage allowing your repairs/recharge to keep up. On a similar note, take out the frigates first in some missions as they like to web you, and webbing slows you down and makes you take more damage.

~ you could use the fabled "shield Myrm" which, with lvl 3 to 4 shield skills, can tank lvl 3 and some lvl 4 missions like a BEAST.

Here's such an example of the shield Myrm:

[Lows]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

[Mids]
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
(Rat Specific Shield Hardener)
(Rat Specific Shield Hardener) Note: "named" hardeners use less cap and have more forgiving fitting requirements

[Highs]
220 Vulcan Autocannon I
220 Vulcan Autocannon I
220 Vulcan Autocannon I
220 Vulcan Autocannon I
220 Vulcan Autocannon I
Drone Link Augmenter I

[Rigs]
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

[Drones]
5x Hobgoblin II
5x Hammerhead II
5x Valkayrie II

If you pursue this fit then replace the Power Diagnostic System II mods with Shield Power Relay IIs as your skills improve. When your skills get to 3 or 4 you should be passively regenerating about 250+ hp/sec.


Hope this helps.


edit: added some info.
edit2: added more info
edit3: added more info

Nakotz
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.12 16:48:00 - [6]
 

Thanks for all the information.

I do have to admit I'm a little more confused now, having spent weeks going armour tank I don't think I should switch to shield tanking, just seems like I've wasted a lot of my skill training if I did.

I think I do now want to persue the Megathron route, so I'm guessing my training into hybrid weapons hasn't gone to waste. So in terms of career paths, to complement L4 mission running (which I'll be doing mostly), what else is there for me to concentrate on? Obviously I do want to get into a corp and join a fleet, joining mining mission or large fleet battles/scout mission for hit and run raiding etc..

So I have Evemon saying 5 days for the Megathon, but yeah, I would be kinda stupid to jump in one for missioning until I have the support skills, so has anyone got any recommendations for needed/must have skills for this beast?

One last question to those Megathron flyers out there, what else do you find yourself doing to occupy yourself?

Cheers
Nakotz

Zartrader
Posted - 2010.04.12 17:30:00 - [7]
 

There are no wasted skills just those which are optimum for what you want to do next. Over your EVE career you are likely to need several tanking methods so don't worry about the training you have done being wasted.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.04.12 21:00:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Nakotz

I do have to admit I'm a little more confused now, having spent weeks going armour tank I don't think I should switch to shield tanking, just seems like I've wasted a lot of my skill training if I did.



I was just throwing something out there to give you more options. In reality (and like the guy above me said) there is no such thing as "wasted" skills.
There are 2 ways to go about training your skills: specialization and diversification. The first will allow you to be one of the best within that specific sphere of action, be it small ship/big ship combat or trading or exploring. However, in specializing you lose the ability to to adapt to different situations.
Likewise, if you diversify your skills, you'll be able to adapt to differing situations quite easily... however you will not be as good as "specialists" are in that specific field.

If you play for awhile you'll find yourself doing both as you can only advance so far in one area skill-wise.

Originally by: Nakotz

So I have Evemon saying 5 days for the Megathon, but yeah, I would be kinda stupid to jump in one for missioning until I have the support skills, so has anyone got any recommendations for needed/must have skills for this beast?



Recommend? Yeah...

Engineering 5
Electronics 5
Electronic Upgrades 4
Weapon Upgrades 5
Advanced Weapon Upgrades 4
(the above 5 skills help making fitting stuff easier)

Energy Grid Upgrades 4
Energy Management 4
(the above 2 help with cap regeneration)

Mechanic 5
Hull Upgrades 5
armor compensation skills at 4
(the above 3 will help with surviving)

most of your gunnery skills at 3 or 4
all navigation skills at 4
(helps with killing and escaping respectively)


Originally by: Nakotz

One last question to those Megathron flyers out there, what else do you find yourself doing to occupy yourself?



Getting blown up in faction warfare! Twisted Evil

Taross
Caldari
Laurentson INC
Posted - 2010.04.13 10:30:00 - [9]
 

The suggested skills in the above post are more or less correct. For a megathron, I'd add Drones V, Scout drone Operation V, [blah] Drone Specialization III and Drone Interfacing and the other drone support skills to III or IV, too. Would be a shame to waste the nice big drone bay and bandwidth.

If this seems like a long list: Battleships are NOT easy to fly, and getting into one underskilled is more likely to result in an expensive explosion than anything else. Battlecruisers are easy to rush into, and relatively forgiving. So forgiving, in fact, that it's often a good idea to just do so, if you can find the ISK... But doing the same with a battleship is a BAD idea.

The large signature radius of a battleship means everything you'll meet will hit you for full damage. This means that you need a much bigger tank (in DPS tanked) than you'd need in a battlecruiser. This is not obvious until you try it.

Plus, while the large guns you can fit on one look very tempting, they only truly do their full damage against HUGE targets, especially with low skills. And they're HARD to fit... With low fitting skills, you'll find yourself using a lot of fitting mods (reactor controls, coprocessors.) This costs slots you SHOULD be using for your tank...

Battleships were BALANCED with players with pretty high skills in mind, and it shows.

A point you mentioned in passing: DO try to find a good corp. There are no words to describe how much more fun this game becomes with a good group to hang out with. Even stuff you can do perfectly fine by yourself, like missions and mining, becomes much more fun, not to mention often much more effective, as a team effort.

As for what I do with my megathron: Me and my 100-150 bestest buddies join up and shoot another fleet, or if we can't find one a POS tower...Very Happy


My Postman
Posted - 2010.04.13 11:47:00 - [10]
 

Most good advices already given.

To drones when missioning:
Frigs and Destroyers (L1-L2) = Light drones (i.e. Hobgoblins).
Cruiser and Battlecruiser size rats (L2-L3) = Medium Drones (i.e. Hammerheads).
Battleship size = Heavy Drones or Sentries.
Meaning that you use the proper drone size, for the size of the rat ship. If you try to kill a frig with a heavy drone, it will need ages, if ever.

Same for guns:
If you try to kill a tackling frig with 425mm Railgun II you will die horribly, as it won´t score a single hit.

So, when doing a L2 in whatever ship, you will fit small weapons with good tracking on your ship, as all you will find in a L2 is frigs and destroyers, maybe the occational cruiser.

When going higher level missions ( 3 and 4 ) you fit bigger guns to bigger ships, kill the frigs and dessys with light drones, cruiser and battlecruiser size rats with medium drones, and there your bigger guns give dps support. For the battleship rats use heavies or sentries, and there your big guns will support dps very good.

Hope this helps.

Nakotz
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.13 18:20:00 - [11]
 

I have to agree, a lot of good advice, thanks again all!

I've actually dropped the Megathron training and switched back to my Drones/Armour tanking skill plan, mainly to get to the T2 drones, which I should have ready Sunday morning. I know the Dominix doesn't have the same sexy sleak look as the Megathron, I do think at the moment for my play style it's a better fit!

Cheers
Nakotz

Skavirr
Posted - 2010.04.14 07:17:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Skavirr on 14/04/2010 07:18:48
Get T2 repper trained ASAP and remember damage controls are your friends.

Before doing a mission, check what damage types you'll be facing (http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports).

Your Myrm fit isn't bad but with specific hardeners, you should find one T2 rep will keep you safe for level 3s. e.g, against Serpentis, your lows would be:

Med rep II
2x Therm Hardener II
2x Kinetic Hardener II
Damage Control II

Use light drones against frigs and meds against cruisers.

Enjoy!

dpidcoe
Gallente
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
Posted - 2010.04.15 08:06:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Nakotz
Pvp will be an option in the future I guess.


PvP is an option now, you don't need a ton of skills to do it. I was doing stuff in lowsec within 4 days of getting eve, and I was actively hunting people in lowsec by 2 weeks into it. After about a month of playing, my corp (consisting of me and 3 my friends who'd all subbed at the same time) survived a wardec from a far superior force.

There's absolutely no reason why you can't train propulsion jamming to 1, join a merc or pirate corp, then fit a pvp frig or cruiser and go have fun.

Nakotz
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.15 18:44:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Nakotz on 15/04/2010 19:35:03
Edited by: Nakotz on 15/04/2010 18:45:28
Back again, I'll have to make a video sometime of this L3 mission I'm doing. I have 2 med rep and 4 hardeners going, within 10 seconds of warping in my shields were gone, within another 8 seconds I was taking structural damage, I honestly don't understand what I can do differently in order to survive a L3 mission. At the moment this is only interest and it's basically a case of sitting around waiting for skills to finish, hoping they'll enable you to survive an extra few seconds.

Will get back to you once I fraps this mission.

Nakotz

Edit:
The mission is called spy stash and it's been in my journal for well... it runs out in 2 hours... it's just insanely difficult.

Edit2:
The correct hardeners probably would help... I'm lasting a lot longer now, I didn't expect to be fighting BC's though... damn.. it's a big step up from L2 to L3

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2010.04.15 19:45:00 - [15]
 

1) You have a week to complete the mission - has it been in your journal for a week?

2) You might try fitting some 1200mm Rolled Tungsten Armor Plate. That works wonders for your staying power. You might have to adjust your PG and Modules some to fit it though.

3) You also might see if you can vary your warp in distance. If you are warping right into a swarm of rats that could be your problem. Set your Warp To distance to 100km and see if you can get some distance between you and the rats, then try and take them out in small groups.

4) This being the New Players Q&A forum - you might get a better answer to your question in the Missions forum.

5) The Missions set here doesn't seem to have anything for Spy Stash. Though there are some The Hidden Stash Mission - just not for Level III. Battle Clinc has missions to but I'm not familiar with them.



Matalino
Posted - 2010.04.15 20:32:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
5) The Missions set here doesn't seem to have anything for Spy Stash. Though there are some The Hidden Stash Mission - just not for Level III. Battle Clinc has missions to but I'm not familiar with them.
This is the mission the OP was refering to. Controlling warp in range is not an option as the mission uses deadspace pockets. As the OP discovered, using the correct hardeners makes a big different especially when facing Angles in an armour tanked ship. Most likely the time bonus is about to expier, rather than the mission. Missions typically allow a week to complete, but the time bonus is often only a few hours or less.

Zartrader
Posted - 2010.04.15 20:32:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Zartrader on 15/04/2010 20:35:52
Edited by: Zartrader on 15/04/2010 20:35:07

Originally by: Nakotz
Edited by: Nakotz on 15/04/2010 19:35:03
Edited by: Nakotz on 15/04/2010 18:45:28
Back again, I'll have to make a video sometime of this L3 mission I'm doing. I have 2 med rep and 4 hardeners going, within 10 seconds of warping in my shields were gone, within another 8 seconds I was taking structural damage, I honestly don't understand what I can do differently in order to survive a L3 mission. At the moment this is only interest and it's basically a case of sitting around waiting for skills to finish, hoping they'll enable you to survive an extra few seconds.

Will get back to you once I fraps this mission.

Nakotz

Edit:
The mission is called spy stash and it's been in my journal for well... it runs out in 2 hours... it's just insanely difficult.

Edit2:
The correct hardeners probably would help... I'm lasting a lot longer now, I didn't expect to be fighting BC's though... damn.. it's a big step up from L2 to L3


You turning on your hardners? You usually kite NPC's not try and take them on all at once, wait for a pack to aggro then attack them. If none aggro, pick one from the outside. Try and kite them away too. I can't comment on your ship as I don't know the race but Level 3's can be done with fairly low skills.



 

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