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blankseplocked Is it really worth is training specializations to five?
 
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Kalanar
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.04.03 22:27:00 - [1]
 

I'm internally debating whether or not I should train Large Artillery, Medium Artillery, and Large Autocannon to V now, or just leave it for some time down the road on my alt character (Minmatar with 44m SP). I just don't know, is that last 2% really worth it right now?

Its just over a month for each large spec and like 20 days for the medium.

Make up my decision for me!

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.03 23:07:00 - [2]
 

I have left all my spec skills at 4.

You are better off getting the ship skills up to 5 first unless they are there already. Same thing with all the weapon support skills.

Dracnys
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.03 23:11:00 - [3]
 

I'd train them if I had all support skills at V, the ship skills at V and had no other options than crosstraining to another race. But if you don't happen to be in that position, go for something that gives you more for your time. 2% damage is hardly going to make the difference in a fight, so it's more for the feeling of having a perfect character, and for imagining odd situations where these percents are making the difference.

Kalanar
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.04.04 00:07:00 - [4]
 

Well, the character being discussed has basically every relevant ship skill maxed.

- Minmatar BS V
- Minmatar BC V
- Minamatar Command Ship V
- Minmatar Cruiser V
- Minmatar Frigate V
- Advanced Spaceship Command V

All gunnery support skills are also at V, with the exception of Adv. Weapons Upgrades, which is at IV.

Core skills are all at V - exception being targeting, which is at IV. All specializations are at IV, except Medium Autocannon, which is at V.

altyaltyaltyalt
Posted - 2010.04.04 00:45:00 - [5]
 

Don't do it. Start cross training to another race instead. Having more and different ship options is waaaaay nicer than that last 2%.

Kalanar
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.04.04 00:48:00 - [6]
 

See, I'm internally debating that. I have three characters, two of whom are PvP oriented. They are both carrier capable (and can both fly carriers relatively well), but I'm debating on which one I want to get to the level where they can /effectively/ fly a carrier/mothership.

What would the skills necessary to fly a mothership well be? I have absolutely no idea.

Ford Chicago
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.04 00:57:00 - [7]
 

Nobody can answer the question "Is it worth it?", except for you.

I choose to expand the range of things I can do or ships I can fly as I believe that being able to fly the right ship for the job is often much better than flying an inferior ship for the job 2% better.

However, if you're a perfectionist in your training and you would prefer to be doing 2% more damage in your existing ships and have no interest in flying other ships, than sure, spend your time making your existing ships just a little bit better.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.04 01:13:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Kalanar
Well, the character being discussed has basically every relevant ship skill maxed.


What about missile/drone/tanking skills?

Kalanar
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.04.04 02:19:00 - [9]
 

Yes, tank skills are at IV or V. I think I have one armor comp to move up to V - I guess I'll do that next. He is pretty solidly specc'd for his role.

Drone skills are irrelevant. He has about 3m in drones and can do anything he needs to with non-fighter drones.

Ghoest
Posted - 2010.04.04 06:00:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 04/04/2010 06:03:15
I cant see doing it unless you have

-all tanking and energy skills at 5(except the shield passive resists at 4)
-all useful drone skills at 4 or 5
-all support weapon skills at 5
-all ship command skills(that you might use) at 5
-all ewar skills at 4 or 5
-almost all electronics skills at 5

I doubt its a good idea for you.


I noticed you said drones are relevant and you fly Minm. Ehhhh.

Yakumo Smith
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.04 10:48:00 - [11]
 

I went with the middle ground.

I found I was primarily using Heavy Pulse lasers in my fittings so I took the medium pulse laser spec to V and then started cross training other races. 2% boost can be handy in a pinch, but like everyone else said, in some instances i'll be better undocking in an ishtar than having an extra 2% boost to lasers.

Clueless Alt
Posted - 2010.04.04 15:16:00 - [12]
 

Got V on med pulse et med ac spec, because that's the weapon I use the most.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2010.04.05 01:59:00 - [13]
 

Including drones, I have 17 specs to 4. I'll be bringing that to 19 (everything sub-BS except rockets because, well, why?) in the next week or so. None to 5; no regrets.

Very often having the right tool for the right job is very much better than being a master of one.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.04.05 06:10:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kalanar
Well, the character being discussed has basically every relevant ship skill maxed.

- Minmatar BS V
- Minmatar BC V
- Minamatar Command Ship V
- Minmatar Cruiser V
- Minmatar Frigate V
- Advanced Spaceship Command V

All gunnery support skills are also at V, with the exception of Adv. Weapons Upgrades, which is at IV.

Core skills are all at V - exception being targeting, which is at IV. All specializations are at IV, except Medium Autocannon, which is at V.



Get AWU V, it opens up some nice fitting options.

Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.05 07:54:00 - [15]
 

It's easy really, do you want to specialize or not, if you expect to be or want to be flying other races stuff as well with that char then it's not worth it yet, but if you wanna be as good as you can be with 1 race, then yeah that extra 2% does help.

Jotobar
Posted - 2010.04.05 10:57:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Kalanar
with the exception of Adv. Weapons Upgrades, which is at IV.


Well there's your answer right there.

Neverine Crux
Posted - 2010.04.06 16:50:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Malcanis


Get AWU V, it opens up some nice fitting options.


I can confirm it's worth it

Ringo Jeicha
Posted - 2010.04.06 17:06:00 - [18]
 

Why is adv spaceship command in that list?

white kight
Helljumpers
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.04.06 17:44:00 - [19]
 

After doing pulse spec 5 i get another 50-60 dps out of my geddon. At the end of the day more dps is always needed.

Naim Obeji
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.04.06 18:13:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Ford Chicago
Nobody can answer the question "Is it worth it?", except for you.

<snip>


This.

For my part, I think it's pretty cool to have all my projectile weapons up to level 5 specialization. I've even managed to do it and still have lots of flexibility in what I fly and how I fly it. You can have it both ways.

I'm thinking about doing it again with another type of weapon, but I'll prolly finish off a few lvl 5 ship command skills first.



El'Tar
Caldari
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.06 18:45:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: white kight
After doing pulse spec 5 i get another 50-60 dps out of my geddon. At the end of the day more dps is always needed.


wtb 5k dps geddon

Emma Royd
Caldari
Maddled Gommerils
Posted - 2010.04.07 20:02:00 - [22]
 

It's purely down to personal choice, whether you feel you want so spend the best part of a month training the large doobrywhatsit specialization skill to 5 or not.

Personally I do, I'm a bit odd like that, I max all the support skills, then max the relevant turret skills, then I'll think about the ship skills Shocked, but I've got the luxury of time, my combat char is a proficient missile thrower so don't mind waiting around to train something else.

Once he gets Minmatar battleship 5 then I'll decide which ship to put him in.

But if you really wanna get into the new stuff, then hold the specs at 4 and make sure you train all the gunnery support skills to 5 instead.

Darthewok
Perkone
Posted - 2010.04.08 01:50:00 - [23]
 

main reasons far as i know to train spec to 5 is a) you really enjoy being top damage dealer on killmails, b) you need that tiny extra edge to win solo PVP or simply c) feeling of satisfaction you are perfectly skilled for a certain ship.

fivetide humidyear
Gallente
Fool Mental Junket
Posted - 2010.04.08 08:49:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: fivetide humidyear on 08/04/2010 08:49:45
Originally by: white kight
After doing pulse spec 5 i get another 50-60 dps out of my geddon. At the end of the day more dps is always needed.


err no.

taking large pulse spec from 4 to 5 (assuming a 7x mega pulse II (IN MF), 3 heat sink II, amarr BS 5, all gunnery skills to 5 and no implants) it's a 16 dps rise. a 3 draclira heat sink geddon is only a 18 dps increase because 2% is still only 2% gain you know.......

still worth it if that is what you fly lots.

personally i have taken medium AC spec to 5, medium pulse spec to 5 and will do medium artillery to 5 as they are the 3 I use the most. Heavy pulse spec 5 will be the last skill before this years remap too as it's the heavy gunnery skill i use the most.

Nico Terces
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.08 09:22:00 - [25]
 

If you havent got anything left to train which benefits your current choices of ships, getting specs to 5 is worth it, unless you're planning to crosstrain to more ships.

Omg Corn
Gallente
Alcoholocaust.
Posted - 2010.04.08 12:45:00 - [26]
 

How many fights have you been in where 2% would have made the difference between victory or defeat? (or one more killmail?)

Eve is not about perfectly balanced combat in which every little bit counts. The majority of the time other factors will decide whether you win or lose.

Having said all that, I'd still eventually train the skills.

fivetide humidyear
Gallente
Fool Mental Junket
Posted - 2010.04.09 10:09:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Omg Corn
How many fights have you been in where 2% would have made the difference between victory or defeat? (or one more killmail?)




twice this year, before that my memory fails me.

but it's more about having perfect skills and with overheat added it gets you to the top of killmails (which is clearly important....Wink)

GavinCapacitor
Posted - 2010.04.09 14:20:00 - [28]
 

Just want to throw this out there, afaik, bonuses from multiple skills are multiplicative.
So if you have large energy turret V and spec V you get: 1.25*1.10 = 1.375, as opposed to spec at IV: 1.25*1.08 = 1.35 (2.5% increase). The case for spec V only gets better with the other skills like surgical strike, or a ship bonus, or anything else I forgot.

Just sayin'

Yarinor
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.09 15:59:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Yarinor on 09/04/2010 15:59:38
Originally by: GavinCapacitor
Just want to throw this out there, afaik, bonuses from multiple skills are multiplicative.
So if you have large energy turret V and spec V you get: 1.25*1.10 = 1.375, as opposed to spec at IV: 1.25*1.08 = 1.35 (2.5% increase). The case for spec V only gets better with the other skills like surgical strike, or a ship bonus, or anything else I forgot.

Just sayin'


Yes, when compared to no skills, if you compare it to with skill 4 it's less, observe:

S4 = 1.25*1.08
S5 = 1.25*1.10

%inc = S5/S4 -1 = 1.25*1.10/(1.25*1.08) -1 = 1.10/1.08 -1 = 1.01852 -1 = .01852 = 1.852%

Ninja Edit: Also, the % increase will be the same no matter what other bonuses apply since they'll apply both to the S4 and the S5

Trebor Whettam
Posted - 2010.04.09 21:26:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Trebor Whettam on 09/04/2010 21:26:56
Originally by: Neverine Crux
Originally by: Malcanis


Get AWU V, it opens up some nice fitting options.


I can confirm it's worth it


It's astounding how many elite fits require that measely 2% pg savings. That's not to mention its role as a prereq.


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