open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Will EVE ever look as good as the screenshots?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

hired goon
Posted - 2010.04.03 12:12:00 - [1]
 

Eve as it stands looks great. But it doesn't look as good as it could, and we know this because of the screenshots and trailers that come from CCP. As for screenshots, we already know that CCP has an in-house tool that increases Eve's resolution by about 10x then takes a screen, which can be scaled down to look perfectly anti-aliased, where as we don't even have the option of anti-aliasing. As far as I understand this was a limitation with directX 9 (one we saw in other games too, such as oblivion) though we are now in dx11 generation. This secret CCP 'client' can also increase the resolution of texture/normal/specular/shadow maps (or maybe just display them uncompressed) for the end result of an almost perfect looking screenshot.

Trailers are different, because the effects we've seen on recent videos are added by video-editing software, rather than in a secret client.

I am going to make the argument that we should be given more detail in Eve, for a number of reasons;

  1. Eve is not a very demanding game, even though it looks spectacular. It might induce slow-down for people who run on 6 monitors, or who like to run 14 accounts at once, but for normal people there is a LOT of computer power left untapped that we should have at least the option of using in the game we love, especially if it 'already exists' in a secret CCP client.


  2. Many (though not all) eve players have now upgraded to a machine that has incredible processing power. According to the very interesting and useful Steam hardware survey, almost 80% of gamers have a dx10.1 capable gpu and just over 80% have more than 1 CPU core. This could almost be argued to be 'wasted' on todays eve, which as previously mentioned is not very demanding at all, to the extent that people using Nvidia cards two generations old (8800 GTS, 7900 GT etc) can still run multiple clients at once! combine this with the newly released dx11 cards and we see a pretty extreme picture forming. (Just to note I think this is an amazing achievement for a game that looks as beautiful as Eve currently does!)


  3. Screenshots and trailers are what brings people to the game. Once they are playing there is a chance they'll be disappointed they have been 'misled'. Add to this the fact that at one point a source of great pride with Eve was the fact all screenshots and trailers were unedited and representative of the gameplay. (as mentioned in almost every early trailer - though not the later ones which have effects such as depth-of-field and motion blur edited in)


I understand that the graphics of Eve are getting better all the time, but I believe that these are all small improvements, and there are a number of large problem areas that should be solved if Eve is to remain a visually cutting edge game in the face of newer offerings. I also believe the advancement of technology is outpacing the advancement in Eve graphics.

If however adding some of these new dx11 effects, such as depth of field, anti aliasing and motion blur would require a similar re-writing of the entire graphics engine (as was a requirement to update from dx7 to dx9) then I apologize and would like to say I do not expect CCP to undertake such a laborious task so soon!

With all this being said however, we should never lose sight of the fact that Eve is the only game and certainly the only MMOG that has gifted its players with such continuous updates. Eve as it stands now looks stunning; I absolutely love the new star fields, and new textures that were (and still are) sneakily put in. I am just excited that Eve could look even stunninger.

Captain Futur3
Posted - 2010.04.03 12:41:00 - [2]
 

image

this is what i would love to see in game some day. Ship explosions that last for several seconds (with breaking ship hulls, ships breaking into several parts, fire coming out of the hull) and projectile explosions that loot just awesome instead of like a game from 2003 (which eve actually is Very Happy).

Give Eve just ONE such addon that works on all of these effects and i promise an increasement of players by at least 50% in the next half year (hope not too many wow-lers ;).

Cute Joe
Posted - 2010.04.03 13:12:00 - [3]
 

will never happen

have a nice day

Captain Futur3
Posted - 2010.04.03 13:29:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Cute Joe
will never happen

have a nice day

I will quote you in 10 years Razz

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2010.04.03 14:29:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: hired goon
According to the very interesting and useful Steam hardware survey, almost 80% of gamers have a dx10.1 capable gpu
but not a dx10.1 capable operating system. People with both are more like 56% of that group (which may or may not accurately represent Eve players.)

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.03 14:41:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 03/04/2010 14:43:09
Not that I object to better graphics but really... Most of the time when you're in space you can't even see a ship if it isn't capital sized... If you stay close enough to look at a ship then you're not looking at everything else that's going around you. Even navigating can be a pin unless you're in a completely empty spot of space.

EDIT: also the poster above is right, more than a half of the general player base is still with Win Xp (like me). So even if the system is dx10.1 or even 11 capable, the OS isn't.

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.04.03 14:41:00 - [7]
 

MY EVE looks as good as the screenshots.. but then again I spend all my disposable income on computer hardware. Laughing

KA StarLifter
Posted - 2010.04.03 18:32:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: KA StarLifter on 03/04/2010 18:32:46
I don't get my kicks from the graphics of Eve. In fact, I'd suggest that most of those who do get their kicks from the graphics, or from the graphics the OP is hoping for, are short-term players anyway (like for a year or two).

I've been playing and successfully PvP'ing since 2004 (not with this character) and I haven't heard Eve gun/laser/missile sounds, except sporadically when the game crashes and my settings are all new, for years now. Likewise, all my graphics are turned all the way down, and remain that way, because I'm just really not focusing on what anything around me looks like when I'm in a 1 vs. 1 or fleet battle - I just don't have to time to be looking around.

When I'm not PvP'ing I'm hunting - other players - and I have no need for graphics then, either.

If you actually get into the game and make it, you won't have time for close-up shots of your fleet flying by a planet either.

CCP recognizes this and has guided the graphics appropriately for the majority of EVE players IMHO.


Arimus Darkhart
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2010.04.03 19:39:00 - [9]
 

99.99% of the time my client is fully zoomed out.
the other 0.01% is when I fly a new ship for the first time or following a model change to see what the ship looks like then once that's done back to fully zoomed out.

If you want fancy graphics which are more bling than practical Eve probably isn't the game for you...

Blnukem 192
Amarr
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2010.04.03 20:15:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Blnukem 192 on 03/04/2010 20:23:11
Originally by: KA StarLifter
Edited by: KA StarLifter on 03/04/2010 18:32:46
I don't get my kicks from the graphics of Eve. In fact, I'd suggest that most of those who do get their kicks from the graphics, or from the graphics the OP is hoping for, are short-term players anyway (like for a year or two).

I've been playing and successfully PvP'ing since 2004 (not with this character) and I haven't heard Eve gun/laser/missile sounds, except sporadically when the game crashes and my settings are all new, for years now. Likewise, all my graphics are turned all the way down, and remain that way, because I'm just really not focusing on what anything around me looks like when I'm in a 1 vs. 1 or fleet battle - I just don't have to time to be looking around.

When I'm not PvP'ing I'm hunting - other players - and I have no need for graphics then, either.

If you actually get into the game and make it, you won't have time for close-up shots of your fleet flying by a planet either.

CCP recognizes this and has guided the graphics appropriately for the majority of EVE players IMHO.




You must really love hitting the F1 to F8 keys on Microsoft Excell then... Unlike most if you freaks, I have my graphics and sound *gasp* on full, even anti-aliasing. And I play ZOOMED IN 95% of the time. Shocked

The truth of the matter is, if you like to hit F1 to F8 and watch health bars for ships go down and stare at a blank screen full of windows, then you have a severe case of insanity. EVE needs visuals, it's just not fun otherwise.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.03 20:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Arimus Darkhart
99.99% of the time my client is fully zoomed out.
the other 0.01% is when I fly a new ship for the first time or following a model change to see what the ship looks like then once that's done back to fully zoomed out.

If you want fancy graphics which are more bling than practical Eve probably isn't the game for you...



Talk like this is simply short-sighted.

I chose to play Eve BECAUSE the graphics seemed much more advanced than other MMO's. I've never played WOW, but I've seen it being played and it looks like something out of the year 2000.

I don't play eve for the fast-paced spreadsheets, I play eve because it's the closest thing I can get to a persistent sci-fi simulator. Adding some fast-paced cinema effects WILL add tons to the game. Making it look like that Battlestar Galactica screen would be SO COOL. Ships with hulls that break up, explosions and more 'splosions, with missiles flying all around with smoke trails, etc.

Let's move Eve from the nerds category into the realm of actual awesome, like when you saw Star Wars for the first time, and the effect of speed when Luke flew down the trench just blew you away.

If you remember, Star Wars was never "exactly" like real life. In reality, ships wouldn't explode in space, and they wouldn't need to look cool or aerodynamic.

For all you spreadsheet nerds who play with 15 accounts at a time, Eve can stay the same for you, with settings that allow you to check or un-check certain effects.

Don't have DX 10.1 OS? No worries, simply making Eve run faster and smoother taking advantage of DX 10.1 doesn't need to eliminate DX9 compatibility. It just won't run as well as it would if you upgraded your OS.

My point is what the OP point is - they could enable certain things in the client to allow us with SLI and DX10.1 and above to actually view EVE the way it should be - as a persistent cinimatic sci-fi experience.

Theoretically they could make a flash-based browser version of the game, allowing all of you spreadsheet people to play without any graphics at all, or a much more simplified version.

kano donn
New Path
Posted - 2010.04.03 20:32:00 - [12]
 

Having just recently upgraded my system from lowest eve settings to highest, I concur with the OP.

EVE is a beautiful game when it comes to gameplay just like has been mentioned here, but the buildings that hold beautiful artworks are a work of art in them selfs.

If it is possible, why not do it?


Dr Karsun
Gallente
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Posted - 2010.04.03 21:24:00 - [13]
 

I operate on a windows XP home,32 bit, I have 3gb of ram, a 512 card (hd 4850), a screen of 1280x1024 LG, a 250gb drive... And a ****ty processor of 1.8 ghz dual core.

It's all fine when one can upgrade his computer, but apart from the card I bought quite recently (when it wa new), I don't have money to buy my computer components too often. If EVE started using a dx11 I'd guess many people would be screwed since their cards and other hardware would not work with it.

For now a lot of visual effects need fixing. I can run 2 clients on max detail, but a lot of animations will break at some point - like the armor repair animation will stop cycling and will start just flashing green lines once in a while, or the tractor beam... Etc,etc,etc. Fix the current effects - then make them better.

And please also remember that new hardware is expensive. Don't upgrade everything before it's not optimised.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2010.04.03 21:48:00 - [14]
 

To be honest, the only feature I'd really like would be in-game support for AA, even if it came at the cost of disabling HDR for some people. Both are possible, ergo the user should be given the choice.

S'qarpium D'igil
Posted - 2010.04.03 21:50:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 03/04/2010 21:50:23
Originally by: Dr Karsun
I operate on a windows XP home,32 bit, I have 3gb of ram, a 512 card (hd 4850), a screen of 1280x1024 LG, a 250gb drive... And a ****ty processor of 1.8 ghz dual core.

It's all fine when one can upgrade his computer, but apart from the card I bought quite recently (when it wa new), I don't have money to buy my computer components too often. If EVE started using a dx11 I'd guess many people would be screwed since their cards and other hardware would not work with it.

For now a lot of visual effects need fixing. I can run 2 clients on max detail, but a lot of animations will break at some point - like the armor repair animation will stop cycling and will start just flashing green lines once in a while, or the tractor beam... Etc,etc,etc. Fix the current effects - then make them better.

And please also remember that new hardware is expensive. Don't upgrade everything before it's not optimised.


You do understand that games can run in different versions of DirectX, right? It's possible to optimize a game for DX10.1 or 11 or whatever, but still let people run it in 9. People running it in 9 obviously won't get all of the benefits, but there's no reason to limit the potential of a game because certain people can't afford better hardware...

Let the people who have better hardware use it; there's no reason to limit them because your rig happens to suck. Rolling Eyes

Sista Jaxx
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2010.04.03 22:13:00 - [16]
 

I was going to say, "You mean, will EVE ever look as good as it's current trailers?"But I see what you're saying and you have some good points.

Could improve : yes (but doesn't need huge improvements imo).

Will it improve : who know's.

Perhaps with (*cough) Incarna, some graphical improvements will be at hand.

/Runs off to bake homemade Clif Bars.

Shinji Seto
Minmatar
Xolti Research
Posted - 2010.04.04 01:48:00 - [17]
 

I don't know what I'm doing different than every one else, but I've ran Eve for four year with 8x AA on a 7950gt and Win XP pro.

Xovak
NBFIU Industries
Posted - 2010.04.04 02:33:00 - [18]
 

The thing is, EVE is not very graphics intensive when you're doing things that don't require a ****load of memory to do, such as huge fleet battles. Most people don't have more than 6 gigs of RAM in their computer, and if you were to have huge, bloom-laden explosions and motion blurred interceptors in a massive war between two corporations it would not go down well.

I understand that people could easily turn down the graphics settings if they were in such a situation, but you shouldn't have to have them turned all the way up while mining because you want the game to look pretty.

Dramund
Sodom Eye Systems
Posted - 2010.04.04 02:34:00 - [19]
 

Are you talking about HDR+AA? Because Anti-Aliasing works fine without HDR. You can't toggle it in-game but that seems to be more a rule than the exception nowadays. I seem to be using nVidia profiles for every PC game I have anyway. Either they are missing an FSAA option or an Anisotropic filtering option.

That said, I don't know anything about how it works, but Eve Online seems way past due to work out AA+HDR.

Max Torps
Nomadic Conglomerate
Posted - 2010.04.04 04:06:00 - [20]
 

It's almost as if a dichotomy has been created. We all know that Eve has superb in game graphics but at the same time turn them all off for performance.

One thing that CCP could do though is make the New Player Experience a better graphical experience.

Rather than rely on the new player to hunt through forum posts, raise tickets, lose interest, quit. Why don't they just at least slap on AA like everyone else?

Yes, you can hunt the settings down, yes it's easy to do. But really, why should it not be built in like other games? The new player has got a lot more on their plate than those other games offer them and the last thing they want to see when starting Eve - a fantastically awesome graphic experience - is jaggies.

Eve is used to be sold on in game graphics. This should be dealt with.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.04 06:55:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dr Karsun
I operate on a windows XP home,32 bit, I have 3gb of ram, a 512 card (hd 4850), a screen of 1280x1024 LG, a 250gb drive... And a ****ty processor of 1.8 ghz dual core.

It's all fine when one can upgrade his computer, but apart from the card I bought quite recently (when it wa new), I don't have money to buy my computer components too often. If EVE started using a dx11 I'd guess many people would be screwed since their cards and other hardware would not work with it.

For now a lot of visual effects need fixing. I can run 2 clients on max detail, but a lot of animations will break at some point - like the armor repair animation will stop cycling and will start just flashing green lines once in a while, or the tractor beam... Etc,etc,etc. Fix the current effects - then make them better.

And please also remember that new hardware is expensive. Don't upgrade everything before it's not optimised.

BF:BC2 has DX9, DX10 and DX11 modes, just because you cant use DX11 isnt a reason why they shouldnt implement it...

That said i dont believe DX9 is the problem.

zombiedeadhead
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2010.04.04 07:55:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Arimus Darkhart
99.99% of the time my client is fully zoomed out.
the other 0.01% is when I fly a new ship for the first time or following a model change to see what the ship looks like then once that's done back to fully zoomed out.

If you want fancy graphics which are more bling than practical Eve probably isn't the game for you...



This pretty much. Thankfully Eve is all about the gameplay, games who's selling point is the graphics tend to be crap.

Hentes Zsemle
Posted - 2010.04.04 08:33:00 - [23]
 

I agree that if you play this game efficiently, the graphics quality we have now is more than sufficient.
However, having a high graph quality client (higher than this one), and a low graph quality client(lower than this one), would be a great thing, just like in the "old days". Too bad ccp removed this option a while ago couse of pure laziness.
This topic should be in features and ideas section btw...

Craivr
Caldari
Serenity's Rangers
Posted - 2010.04.04 08:39:00 - [24]
 

Just to say, if you use the DX11 API for a game, it is extremely easy to make it backwards compatible all the way back to DirectX 9. Every DX11 game I know offers fallback modes, retaining most of the visual quality. However, 'converting to DX11@ is still a major job for any game developer, if not as big as it could be.

bff Jill
Posted - 2010.04.04 08:47:00 - [25]
 

eve has graphics?

Marchocias
Posted - 2010.04.04 08:49:00 - [26]
 

It is possible to include Anti Aliasing to EVE, but it is a bit fiddly:

Here is some information:
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1140083/page/1
http://forum.nhancer.com/showthread.php?t=332

Here is a handy tool for NVidia cards:
http://www.nhancer.com/


Basically, it is possible - it is easiest to disable HDR (HDR in space... what exactly is the point of it?) to get it working, but it is possible with extreme fiddling to get AA+HDR working.

Aera Aiana
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.04 09:07:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil
People running it in 9 obviously won't get all of the benefits, but there's no reason to limit the potential of a game because certain people can't afford better hardware...


It's not only hardware. I'm on win7 right now, but I plan to go back to XP in the next couple of months (or probably more like the next time win7's crapsplorer can't delete a directory because one of its files is "opened" by said piece of garbage). No DX10 on XP though :-(

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.04.04 11:50:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
BF:BC2 has DX9, DX10 and DX11 modes, just because you cant use DX11 isnt a reason why they shouldnt implement it...

That said i dont believe DX9 is the problem.
True enough. The reason they won't do it is because they abhor multiple rendering paths, in particular the overhead and duplication of effort it creates in designing and delivering new content.

(cf. classic client and medium quality)

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.04.04 16:30:00 - [29]
 

I don't understand some of you. Sure, eye candy can be nice (as a little bonus on the side in an otherwise interesting game with good game play), but how can you find the eye candy itself to be the "fun" in a game and play a game specifically for the visuals? It seems rather mindless.

It's people like you that keep really good games (or good movies for that matter, with good stories instead of just some "cool" special effects) from being made.

Admrl Cain
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.04.04 18:37:00 - [30]
 

My eve looks as good if not better than the screenshots. Don't see the problem tbph.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only