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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.04.05 08:04:00 - [61]
 

Just make player decisions a more involved part of the mining process.

Take the roid names off the overview, just have them list as 'Asteroid' or 'Asteroid Unknown'. Then throw some worthless **** rocks in the belt, and have the roids show up as some generic material in the cargohold, and give them a generic image when targeted.

To make it easier for actual players give the roids more distinguished looks. This way it would be extremely difficult for a macro to know what its mining. And when you see someone sitting in a belt mining a 'barren asteroid' you report him for being a macro.Very Happy

Simeon Tor
Picon Fleet
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2010.04.05 08:48:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: ghosttr

And when you see someone sitting in a belt mining a 'barren asteroid' you report him for being a macro.Very Happy


Better yet, program the barren asteroid to report the macro!

Cridu Chat
Posted - 2010.04.05 09:24:00 - [63]
 

Maybe it would be possible to nerf Mining Lasers, but Buff Mininng Drones ?
I don't know that much about Macros, but i have never seen a Macro Miner with Mining Drones in High-Sec.
Maybe because you have to look after your Drones and protect them from rats.

TechnoViking
Posted - 2010.04.05 09:47:00 - [64]
 

miner checking in here. Here to add my [2] tritaniums.

The verification code thing is a very small price to pay for the smiting of Eve's macro miners. It's a small inconvenience to miners that could possibly remove the largest inconvenience to them: macro miners. The whole "why punish the 'real' miners?" argument is really not very strong.

From my own standpoint, it appears as if CCP has no plans for dealing with macro miners. They know that 0.0 alliances don't produce enough ice products to fuel their POSes. They have to supplement their ice mining operations (if they even have them) with cheap macro-produced ice products from empire. Why do you think jump freighters were introduced? If all those NPC corp macks were gone, then all those 0.0 moon harvesters would go unfueled, T2 production would drop off rapidly, followed closely by CCP's subscription numbers, because the 1% of Eve that are involved in making ships (that aren't macros) can't support PvP ship buy orders for the other 99%.

Snip: giant 3000 character drunken rant deleted.

In closing: **** macro miners, and come Tyrannis, if macros are still around, then **** CCP, too. I'm sure I won't be missed, because human miners are a tiny minority in this game. My little emo gears will grind somewhere else.

SunOfSin
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.04.05 10:18:00 - [65]
 

kill ice miners macro-miners
all ice miners r macro miners
40 macs and 20 hulks and 4 orea mining ice i not big pvp butt see i 40 macs and 20 hulks in big ball i blow up

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.04.05 11:16:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
If you're concern is about the economic impact, where's the data?
In the QEN:s and the fanfest Economy presentation(s).
Quote:
Granted, I'm not tied into every facet of the economy but at the time of unholy rage I was trading in common high-sec ores that continued to depreciate weeks AFTER the expulsion of 6000+ macro'ers/rmt'ers. Considering that most macro miners are doing it in high-sec that means they're mining common ores. And yet noone seems to be able to address the phenomenon other than to say "macro miners are bad, *squawk*, macro miners are bad". Either CCP lied or macro miners don't impact the economy the way that is commonly believed.
…or you haven't bothered to look up the data that has been published, including the one, and you've ignored the explanations already given in this thread.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.04.05 13:00:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 05/04/2010 13:10:38
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 05/04/2010 13:09:57
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mr Kidd
If you're concern is about the economic impact, where's the data?
In the QEN:s and the fanfest Economy presentation(s).
Quote:
Granted, I'm not tied into every facet of the economy but at the time of unholy rage I was trading in common high-sec ores that continued to depreciate weeks AFTER the expulsion of 6000+ macro'ers/rmt'ers. Considering that most macro miners are doing it in high-sec that means they're mining common ores. And yet noone seems to be able to address the phenomenon other than to say "macro miners are bad, *squawk*, macro miners are bad". Either CCP lied or macro miners don't impact the economy the way that is commonly believed.
…or you haven't bothered to look up the data that has been published, including the one, and you've ignored the explanations already given in this thread.


"Including the one"? The one what? I've read the qen report for q3 2009. It seems more concerned with macro-missioners than it does with macro-miners. Oddly, it doesn't even provide "snap shots" of ore and mineral prices other than trit and several of it's snap shots would seem to indicate that market trends CCP attributes to macroers could just as easily be attributed to a greater overall trend. Not all, but some. Could it be that a more detailed analysis of ore and mineral trends would be counter intuitive to the overall "belief" that macro-miners are "bad"?

As for the ore and trit impact, CCP, itself, acknowledges that unholy rage had a small impact on trit prices. Its effects were (quote)small and short lived(unquote). Coincide that with what I've seen in ore prices during that time period, I'd have to say macro-miners are not much of a problem for anyone.

Ick Ickagami
The Soul Society
Pax Romana Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.05 13:06:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Simeon Tor
Originally by: ghosttr

And when you see someone sitting in a belt mining a 'barren asteroid' you report him for being a macro.Very Happy


Better yet, program the barren asteroid to report the macro!


Even better yet, program the barren asteroid to explode, doing 50k omni damage directed at the 'attacking ship".

YARRRR!!

Oh, yes.....bombs in roids......some missions already have them, you know........


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.04.05 13:59:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 05/04/2010 14:03:53
Originally by: Mr Kidd
"Including the one"? The one what?
Oops… cut the sentence short. Including the ones mentioned in this thread.
Quote:
As for the ore and trit impact, CCP, itself, acknowledges that unholy rage had a small impact on trit prices. Its effects were (quote)small and short lived(unquote). Coincide that with what I've seen in ore prices during that time period, I'd have to say macro-miners are not much of a problem for anyone.
…because they adjusted the spawn rates to counteract it.
Quote:
Could it be that a more detailed analysis of ore and mineral trends would be counter intuitive to the overall "belief" that macro-miners are "bad"?
Could it be that you're afraid you'll lose all your macro income? See? Leading questions and insinuations based on not wanting to look up the facts are fun… Rolling Eyes

Zartrader
Posted - 2010.04.05 14:41:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Zartrader on 05/04/2010 14:50:57






One thing they could consider is changing the code used to give commands every month or so. This will not affect players at all but may require a rewrite of macro bots software. One of the things I found striking when I looked into this was the only issues the bot writers had was the standard of coding was low and caused the most problems.

Another thing I found striking was the excuses given to run bots. I suppose if someone tells themselves something enough times they will believe it, but the fact Bots adversely affect ALL of us is a reality which is well explained to anyone willing to listen. Why do people fool themselves into thinking otherwise? Anyone who cheats in a game I am part of affects me personally and I resent that. There is no such thing as solo play in a MMORPG. So damn right I will push my 'morality' on others.


Forum Mcforum
Posted - 2010.04.05 15:53:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Forum Mcforum on 05/04/2010 16:10:36
Edited by: Forum Mcforum on 05/04/2010 16:08:10
Right, I have been following peoples arguements about Macro mining for a long time now....and heres my opinion **** See note at end for disclaimer

I honestly feel that CCP have no possible solution to this, and i have my reasons - which i will try to explain here.

Over the last few months i have done some research into the macro mining market/applications - without actually running them (someone earler seemed to know a lot about them too - so he must have aswell)

1 of the macro's (which is free may i add) is a damn good product (i am a programmer and i am impressed that it has been programmed for no financial gain), This macro can read the screen and respond to what is on screen, it can mine in any ship with any config - and attack any threats......... HOW CAN CCP COMBAT THIS, simple - they cant its just not possible. Player A could undock - warp to belt mine, dock and sell as quickly as a person could do it, heres a list of possibilities.......

CCP implement a test style captcha, OCR would combat this........
CCP make a probe style belt finder, Player A would log in - find the belt and then start the macro with a BM
CCP implement a mini game, Realistically there is only going to be 1 (as opposed to multiple mini games), so this would be easy to manipulate

Lets Get realistic, your fighting a program that can mine in multiple systems, and ignore empty belts - Player A could set it up to mine 10 different systems, log in and log out automatically before and after DT - YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS



Now..... heres the bad thing, There is one problem in my eyes which is much bigger than this. Ratting bots - there are fewer of these, and these dont effect the market as much,but the main one costs about 30 euro's and according to the website has over 1000 users, Now from a personal point as a programmer - if i had worked on a application that made me 30,000 euros in my spare time - i would do anything i could to keep it working, making that unstoppable too.

(edit due to jerids reply!!)
The macros pay for themselves - the average tends to be around 140million isk a day(according to onsite poll) - 2 days gets a plex - a couple more days gets a rather nice faction fit BS for pvp, which kills a none macro pilot - costing them too!), the main ratting macro earns around 4-500mill a day average, real players cannot combat this

Now i know this may be a bit of a wall of text, but its certainly accurate - do some googling!



**** DISCLAIMER ****
I have never used a macro - or never intend to, so for the people who petition me etc - ccp bear this in mind

Jerid Verges
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.04.05 16:01:00 - [72]
 

Forum McForum is right. The Macros are just too capable. The only way CCP can hunt down these Macroers is through Unholy Rage style tactics.

And for people who say CCP is doing nothing. That is a load of BS. Remember Unholy Rage? That was doing something, they didn't have to do it, in fact, doing Unholy Rage lost them a LOT of subscribers, subscribers giving them money to Macro.

Jerid Verges
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.04.05 16:24:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Jerid Verges on 05/04/2010 16:23:56
Oops. Double Post.

Dek Kato
Amarr
Delusions of Mediocrity
Posted - 2010.04.05 17:41:00 - [74]
 

I think a lot of the ideas here are honestly terrible.

First off, the people who claim CCP do nothing are just whining because its impossible to clean up macros entirely. Welcome to MMOs, welcome to EVE.

But, more at the core of this issue is the fact that mining is MEANT to be passive. Were CCP to make it more intensive, it couldn't be AFKd/multiboxed. Therefor a ton of mining alts (a large portion of the mining community, a large source of revenue for CCP, and the primary moneymaker for a lot of PvPers) would disappear. This would then send ore prices through the roof. While a short-term good for miners, everything on the market would rise as well, meaning less goods being sold meaning less fun and PvP. EVE is a PvP game after all, therefor the market needs cheap minerals, which requires mining stay passive.

While I am all for the removal of macro's in whatever way CCP can enforce, I think mining needs to stay passive for the good of the economy.

Sig Freed
Amarr
Imperial Navy Courier Service
Posted - 2010.04.05 18:00:00 - [75]
 

Anyone played the iphone app space miner?

I've mined only a handful of occassions over my time playing eve, can't stand it. That game on the other hand, is mining fun!

Maybe a built in mini-game that when played while mining, gives a slight boost to your mining skills

B0XXY
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2010.04.05 18:13:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: SunOfSin
kill ice miners macro-miners
all ice miners r macro miners
40 macs and 20 hulks and 4 orea mining ice i not big pvp butt see i 40 macs and 20 hulks in big ball i blow up


Hello, my name is B0XXY..... mmmmmmm. You're trollin' and I don't like trolls. Confused

If you believe that all ice miners are macros then you are a very "stoopid" troll. Laughing

Humble Epidemic
Gallente
Hyper-Nova
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:03:00 - [77]
 

I definatly agree that macro miners are a serious problem in eve, but im not sure that there are any practical ways to weed them out, shot of what CCP is doing/done in the past.

And i will totally agree mining in general needs a serious overhaul.
Roid rage is a problem mmkay.

Arklan1
Dunedain Rangers
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:15:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Arklan1 on 06/04/2010 15:44:55
Edited by: Arklan1 on 06/04/2010 15:44:34
you guys played random other space RPG? the mining side game in that wasn't incredibly fun, but it was far from passive. basically would fly to a roid and begin scanning, looking for resource spikes in the scan results, then launch probes to verify, then the ore is hauled in. requires much more active participation, but of course a good macro program with OCR (whats that stand for anyway?) that can read the screen would still be able to do it... but... ok, so i've totally lost my train of thought.

Redshirt I
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:00:00 - [79]
 

Fighting macroers is like the whole missle/missle defense loop countries could get into. Better macros get created, CCP builds better defenses then even better macros get created, it would become an endless loop.

Everytime a miner posts about how important their services are to the game, there are 20 people pointing out how little to the game market they really matter, always saying how mission running is much more effective on the game markets. If this is true then macro miners just dont matter.

I progressed from mining to missions and I can see how running missions, with a well built ship makes for more isk/hour. Since Isk sellers are looking for the best ratio of isk/hour I have to assume they are not dumb and are also moving to mission running. The difference is that you can't see the mission runners as well as you can the macro miners, miners are always visible in their belts.

The changes to the Insurance thing and the upcoming planet interaction should hopefully throw the RMT guys off their game. I say this knowing full well that they will always be around.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:04:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Arklan1
you guys played mass effect 2?
You should probably edit your post a bit before the thread gets locked for mentioning something that isn't EVE. Rolling Eyes

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2010.04.06 00:01:00 - [81]
 

Perhaps use a user-query system, much like you see on forums logins to prevent bots from joining/spamming forums? Just a simple random graphic with several numbers/letters that only a human would be able to recognize and respond to?

Have it triggered after x random amount of ore has been mined, or to activate certain modules. A minor pain in the butt for real miners, but would stop any macro software dead in it's tracks.

Another solution, turn mining into more of a 'mini game' with graphic cues that need to be responded to by a human in order to mine. Some sort of random interaction that would be different on each occasion.


Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.04.06 00:56:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 05/04/2010 14:03:53
Originally by: Mr Kidd
"Including the one"? The one what?
Oops… cut the sentence short. Including the ones mentioned in this thread.
Quote:
As for the ore and trit impact, CCP, itself, acknowledges that unholy rage had a small impact on trit prices. Its effects were (quote)small and short lived(unquote). Coincide that with what I've seen in ore prices during that time period, I'd have to say macro-miners are not much of a problem for anyone.
…because they adjusted the spawn rates to counteract it.
Quote:
Could it be that a more detailed analysis of ore and mineral trends would be counter intuitive to the overall "belief" that macro-miners are "bad"?
Could it be that you're afraid you'll lose all your macro income? See? Leading questions and insinuations based on not wanting to look up the facts are fun… Rolling Eyes


Sweetheart, I don't macro. You're assumption that I defend macroing because I do it is wrong on two parts. First, I'm not defending it. The only thing I'm bringing to light is the general misconception that it's "bad". The typical response when someone is asked why it is "bad" is the regurgitated response "it's bad for the economy" followed by "it depresses ore and mineral prices". Yes, it is a logic conclusion, just not based on anything other than logic. If macro mining did depress mineral and ore prices then why does CCP indicate that ores and mineral price influences are small? And why did ore and mineral price deflate before unholy rage and continue to deflate after unholy rage? There's one thing I can't stand, uninformed know it alls that repeat and regurgitate common dogma as if they know a thing. Second you're wrong that I macro. I don't do anything in this game that can be macro'ed. I spend my days probing systems.

Do elaborate on your "adjusted the spawn rates" comment. I've no idea what you're talking about.

As for the comments about economic impact in this thread? It's been nothing but rhetoric.

Zartrader
Posted - 2010.04.06 01:34:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Zartrader on 06/04/2010 01:36:56




Originally by: Mr Kidd
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 05/04/2010 14:03:53
Originally by: Mr Kidd
"Including the one"? The one what?
Oops… cut the sentence short. Including the ones mentioned in this thread.
Quote:
As for the ore and trit impact, CCP, itself, acknowledges that unholy rage had a small impact on trit prices. Its effects were (quote)small and short lived(unquote). Coincide that with what I've seen in ore prices during that time period, I'd have to say macro-miners are not much of a problem for anyone.
…because they adjusted the spawn rates to counteract it.
Quote:
Could it be that a more detailed analysis of ore and mineral trends would be counter intuitive to the overall "belief" that macro-miners are "bad"?
Could it be that you're afraid you'll lose all your macro income? See? Leading questions and insinuations based on not wanting to look up the facts are fun… Rolling Eyes


Sweetheart, I don't macro. You're assumption that I defend macroing because I do it is wrong on two parts. First, I'm not defending it. The only thing I'm bringing to light is the general misconception that it's "bad". The typical response when someone is asked why it is "bad" is the regurgitated response "it's bad for the economy" followed by "it depresses ore and mineral prices". Yes, it is a logic conclusion, just not based on anything other than logic. If macro mining did depress mineral and ore prices then why does CCP indicate that ores and mineral price influences are small? And why did ore and mineral price deflate before unholy rage and continue to deflate after unholy rage? There's one thing I can't stand, uninformed know it alls that repeat and regurgitate common dogma as if they know a thing. Second you're wrong that I macro. I don't do anything in this game that can be macro'ed. I spend my days probing systems.

Do elaborate on your "adjusted the spawn rates" comment. I've no idea what you're talking about.

As for the comments about economic impact in this thread? It's been nothing but rhetoric.


CCP substantially increased the spawn rate of 'roids to compensate for the mass bans (doubled apparently). That's how much CCP took the economic impact seriously, they knew it would have an effect but overcompensated. For some reason you are ignoring the effect of that or maybe you were simply not aware of it.

Any game that has an element of botting will have a false economy, that is well documented in many games, some of which collapsed as a result. I would agree we do not know the full extent of the effect in EVE, even CCP can only guess, but the effect is there all the same. To ignore that leads to the wrong conclusions about what is happening in the game. One thing I find perverse was the fact that CCP will nerf and adjust drone drops as well as mission drops to try and compensate for the Insurance nerf. The amount they will have to adjust will be affected by the Bots. They hurt all of us in this game directly or indirectly. This game is for people that play, not for bots to play their own game.

You then seem to assume all bots are simply lazy players and otherwise harmless. Well, botting leads to RMT, account theft, crime, fraud and effects that seriously impact players in REAL life, not just the game. They impact genuine players by pushing them out of regions and affecting the price of everything we buy and sell. If you've ever heard someone cry on vent when they have lost everything you may change your attitude a bit. When friends have given up a game they enjoyed as they were hacked and they feel ****d.

The most unpopular thing to say is also the fact they are cheats. Many of us have some integrity no matter how we play EVE. I would rather throw my character away than cheat as playing would have no meaning to me, my character no value as it needed to cheat to get where it was. I don't like being in the same game as cheats.



Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.04.06 03:47:00 - [84]
 

I started a thread to discuss mining improvements and the elimination of macro miners HERE.

Now, I don't think that macros will be able to be removed from the game, but I do think that the game design can be changed in such a way as to make them irrelevant. Just simply change the game design to where the human brain is a more efficient tool for making ISK with mining than a macro program and presto, problem solved.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.04.06 04:04:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Sweetheart, I don't macro. You're assumption that I defend macroing because I do it is wrong on two parts.
It's not wrong for the simple reason that it's not an assumption – it's a demonstration of why rhetorical questions and insinuations are useless (and often ultimately only show that you haven't bothered to look things up).
Quote:
The only thing I'm bringing to light is the general misconception that it's "bad".
How is it a misconception? There is data that shows that it's bad, but you refuse to accept this.
Quote:
Yes, it is a logic conclusion, just not based on anything other than logic.
…and market data and studies made by CCP, that you refuse to accept.
Quote:
If macro mining did depress mineral and ore prices then why does CCP indicate that ores and mineral price influences are small? And why did ore and mineral price deflate before unholy rage and continue to deflate after unholy rage?
BECAUSE THEY CHANGED THE SPAWN RATES!
Quote:
There's one thing I can't stand, uninformed know it alls that repeat and regurgitate common dogma as if they know a thing.
Sure, apparently you prefer uninformed know-it-alls that repeat something they've dreamed up themselves.
Quote:
Second you're wrong that I macro.
Incorrect.
Quote:
Do elaborate on your "adjusted the spawn rates" comment. I've no idea what you're talking about.
Then be quiet until you've actually looked into the information available to us and stop claiming that nothing is known about what's going on.

Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2010.04.06 06:27:00 - [86]
 

OK, I think (and you should, too) That this thread has expired.

Up to this point, i've seen no reason for this thread to even exist in the first place.



Now, let's clear out the points most people seem to miss:

It is NOT, i repeat, IT IS NOT Your job to "Punish" or hinder in any way macro-users. If you want to, however, No one is stopping you. Launching Antimacro Crusades outside of the game mechanics (or outside the game, even) is NOT the way to deal with macro users.

That is CCP's Job.


What you do is effectively report suspect users for CCP to review and handle the way they want to.

You have no power over this last process and there is no logical reason for anyone outside of CCP hf. to have.



want to discuss it? feel free. want to throw **** at eachother in the same thread? go on.
But PLEASE for the love of god STOP THINKING ANY THREAD OF THIS KIND HAS ANY EFFECT ON CCP'S POLICIES.



Venetta
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2010.04.06 09:50:00 - [87]
 

Don't target the macro miners. Pointless. Where money is involved you will never stop people from finding a way to work around safeguards. The best thing is to remove their target market from the equation. No demand, no reason to supply. To this effect I think CCP are trying to combat the problem.


Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.04.06 11:06:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Armoured C on 06/04/2010 11:08:19
Originally by: Boomershoot
OK, I think (and you should, too) That this thread has expired.

Up to this point, i've seen no reason for this thread to even exist in the first place.



Now, let's clear out the points most people seem to miss:

It is NOT, i repeat, IT IS NOT Your job to "Punish" or hinder in any way macro-users. If you want to, however, No one is stopping you. Launching Antimacro Crusades outside of the game mechanics (or outside the game, even) is NOT the way to deal with macro users.

That is CCP's Job.


What you do is effectively report suspect users for CCP to review and handle the way they want to.

You have no power over this last process and there is no logical reason for anyone outside of CCP hf. to have.



want to discuss it? feel free. want to throw **** at eachother in the same thread? go on.
But PLEASE for the love of god STOP THINKING ANY THREAD OF THIS KIND HAS ANY EFFECT ON CCP'S POLICIES.





im sorry this is eve

anyone can be punished for anything
the only thing we can't do is ban them ourselves

but we can punish them


ever heard of smart bombs OR stealing there ores from there can

any noob with half a tank can tank the stupid cruiser that the marco person bring out when he realises that your stealing his profits Rolling Eyes

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.04.06 14:03:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 06/04/2010 14:23:11

Tippia,

You're right, I haven't bothered to look things up only because I don't "live" Eve and therefore am not aware of the intimate workings of CCP, i.e. The QEN report. If made aware of such a thing, then do I look it up as I did the QEN report. But, do not begrudge me for questioning what is the prevailing "wisdom", if it can be called that.

Questioning whether macro-mining is "bad" is exactly that I'm doing here. And yes, it does appear to be a misconception. You may be confusing this point. CCP indicated in the QEN report that macro-missioning involving RMT is the detriment here. CCP admits that the numbers of macro-miners removed from the game had a small and short lived effect on overall mineral prices. And yet CCP increased the roid spawn rate as Zartrader pointed out (thank you). In simple economic theory, increasing the roid spawn rate, may increase the supply of ore and minerals, decreasing the price in the face of a constant demand, but wait. CCP also removed a certain amount of demand for ore and minerals by removing a large number of accounts further depressing demand and therefore prices. Why are macro-miners bad?

And Tippia, just because I defend something does not mean I do it. I just don't believe that macro-mining is the problem you make it out to be. And as of yet I haven't seen any evidence to contradict that belief. If you want to make me aware of more pertinent information I'll be happy to read it and get back to you on the subject. Obviously you are versed in said documentation, if not drawing the wrong conclusions. I think what you're doing is taking the overall conclusion that macroing in conjunction with RMT is bad for a game economy and applying it to every instance of macroing. I do not deny that macroing for the intent of RMT is bad for the game's economy. I just don't believe that if a player chooses to macro-mine that he/she is somehow damaging the economy. The Eve EULA does not explicitly ban macroing. Why is that?


Ackemi
Posted - 2010.04.06 14:36:00 - [90]
 

Let's face it, in a sandbox game some people aren't going to play nice and throw sand out of the box as fast as they can.

CCP has limited options on how to handle macro miners (and any other macros) without removing the "sandbox" feel to the game.

For macro miners I think CCP should continue changing the mechanics (spawn rate and mining yield for low ends) until Hisec ores aren't worth anything. The macro miners are pushing that direction anyhow, let's just cement the relationship now...

Insurance for T1 ships probably needs to change to accomodate this plan. Hmm, maybe CCP has thought of this already?

Make it so the gap between a new players isk needs and a veterans isk desires for "shineys" forces the mining profession into null space as a miner progresses in their profession. Seems like CCP is already trying to accommodate this play!

I don't think macros in low and null sec will be quite the complaint for everyone in the sand- just go shoot them!

Kills the mining profession in Hisec? Yes- DEAL WITH IT! There's no sand left to play with and the participants did it to themselves. Besides, mining in low and null provides this minigame everyone wants for mining -> PvP!


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