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Gorefacer
Caldari
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2010.03.30 12:09:00 - [151]
 

Haha I wondered where this guy went. Remember seeing his flock of caracals in Delve last year. Many terms in the EULA are vague (most likely intentionally so). In this way CCP can make their determination of whether or not something is "fair" gameplay. There really isn't a right or wrong answer until CCP clarifies.

Also it's funny to watch all these EVE nerds flock to the thread to post how superior they feel to this guy and his computer hobby. Some people put massive amounts of time into a single character on EVE. In a relatively short time he could set this up and end up using MUCH less time on the setup and in-game than these other people. It's not like he's somehow spending 14x more time in his chair playing EVE because that's how many accounts he's multiboxing or is that not immediately clear to some people?

Of course he may be as big a basement dweller as people accuse him of but you really can't tell just because he linked up a bunch of cheap computers together for fun.


oolk
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.03.30 12:30:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Vaal Erit
It's a low tech macro, but still a macro. I applaud your creativity and engineering skills but am glad that CCP bans your accounts. We got enough problems with alts and people 2-3 boxing and the like, we don't need this.

Also, they only ban macro users for 3 days? Well I can see why we are still flooded with macros to this day.


Its certainly not a macro, as it only provides one input to each box. You have to sign the EULA for EACH client/account. It is only entering one command to each client and is therefore not a macro on any level.


I beg to differ...its the grandfather of macros...

At 1st,you had to enter a stack of punchcards in a puter in order for it to display basic stuff...its no different.

Just joking...kind of.Rolling Eyes

Agent Unknown
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.30 12:33:00 - [153]
 

I don't see the problem with this honestly. Synergy is basically a network-based KVM, which auto-switches between screens. I use a similar program to extend my desktop to my laptop screen. It's not a macro, just a cool way of multi-boxing. Cool

Jovialmadness
Posted - 2010.03.30 12:52:00 - [154]
 

Question:

would not all the mouse pointers have to start in the perfect same spot?
I don't know Jack about all this crazy stuff but I could see how a program might handle that issue but physically bonding multiple "mice" together would seem like a nightmare to me. Just one gets out of whack and you gotta fix it.

Am I off base on this?

N0N
Posted - 2010.03.30 13:47:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Dogo Duma
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Dogo Duma

Repeating the same thing until infinity still does not make it true......


The same could be said for you.

I too await your repeat and little lesson. YARRRR!!


If you insist, by all means Very Happy

(Please keep feeding him)


I think he was feeding you actually.
But anyway, this guy said it better.
Originally by: Gorefacer
There really isn't a right or wrong answer until CCP clarifies.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.03.30 17:28:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Dogo Duma
Originally by: Cipher Jones

Maybe you don't know what a client is but everyone who is seriously in this conversation understands what it is, not to mention everyones lawyers. If it creates an unfair advantage by using multiple accounts all multiple accounts are a violation of the EULA, which it clearly states is not the case.


Repeating the same thing until infinity still does not make it true, please don't misunderstand me, I do feel sympathy for your position, it's just not going anywhere.

The EULA makes no mention of the word, term, concept or abstract of "the client". End of story, right there.

The concept of "unfair advantage" is one coined by CCP. It has nothing to do with single or multiple accounts. Nobody says that the use of multiple accounts creates such an unfair advantage, so no amount of repeating your strange statements is going to reach into even stranger conclusions Cool.

Please, repeat yourself again, we're all looking forward to these little lessons Very Happy


just because you're an ignorant **** doesn't mean people don't understand what I am saying.

If we were in a court of law I would not use the word client, I would repeat the eula verbatim. since were not in a court of law it is obvious that you just want to troll as the concepts I have presented are directly from what you agreed to when you signed up for eve. You not understanding a license does not invalidate it. The fact that you treat the eve forums as if they were a court of law show that your level of fanboi'ism is legendary and I cannot present an idea to you without bias. Good day.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2010.03.30 23:36:00 - [157]
 

Op's set up is awesome. (especially all those monitors) Personally, I would never get used to the whole mouse/keyboard sync thing. But wtf having a ready fleet of Battleships is really nice.

I can't see how any of these individual accounts would be making more of anything than an individual account could do, on an account per account basis. If the rule is not an “account per account” basis then clearly anyone who has more than one account violates that rule. So I don't see any rule (at least one that is reasonably interpreted) being broken.

As to whether the op needs a life? Well I don't see it based on this. This is the nature of hobbies. He (or she) implemented a nice idea - crazy - but nice. It’s nice because it actually worked! Sometimes you just try to do things to see if you actually can pull it off. And it seems he is pulling it off. He got all those ravens attacking one target! Nice. I would like to see this in action myself. No it’s not how I would like to play the game but it’s still a pretty nice thing he accomplished.

People who are really complaining this is “no fair”: I think you are the ones who need some fresh air. People get so jealous that someone else in this game will make more isk then they can, it’s really funny to me. Really it’s just a game. If someone wants build a behemoth like this to get those battleships all firing on the same target and they actually get the thing to work… Well its time to toast them and have a laugh. If this guy can maintain that many accounts through real money or isk and he took the time to set this up, I want to see what he can do with this jalopy.

My only complaint is what is with the ravens? This setup screams Minmatar.




Eric Policky
Posted - 2010.03.30 23:48:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Jovialmadness
Question:

would not all the mouse pointers have to start in the perfect same spot?
I don't know Jack about all this crazy stuff but I could see how a program might handle that issue but physically bonding multiple "mice" together would seem like a nightmare to me. Just one gets out of whack and you gotta fix it.

Am I off base on this?

Move your mouse pointer to any corner of the screen. Now keep moving the mouse in the same direction as you were before. Notice the cursor stays perfectly stationary. In this way, you can place every cursor in the exact same location (one corner of the screen).

Manip Ulater
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:20:00 - [159]
 

I dont see why wooden dowels would be 'that' much different that when I used to mine with 7 accounts (1 orca, 5 hulks, 1 hauler) on 1 box and the magical alt+tab stroke. The EULA quote is pretty ambiguous as anytime CCP offers the power of two for serious business alts they are essentially encouraging you to push against that rule. If CCP wants me to get an extra account that basically means I will make money in missions 50% faster with 2 chars running seperate missions. or reduce my salvaging time with an alt helping. Either way, the Power of Two promotions over the years imho nullify the wording in that EULA quote, as far as the 'faster than normal' argument.

Neo Gabriel
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:30:00 - [160]
 

Soon the testimonials by the guys that don't macro but mine in an orca and 4 hulks or 4 mackinaws 23/7 will come in.

"Oh I just have all the dual boxed hulks setup in 2 computers while I mange the operation from my main in the orca, I don't use any software at all hurf durf."

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2010.04.02 13:56:00 - [161]
 

I'm bumping this topic because quite frankly it's ridiculous that we've not had an official post in it yet =\

Great Artista
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.02 15:44:00 - [162]
 

Now that is a command center.

Aixa Syal
Minmatar
Blood Inquisition
Posted - 2010.04.03 07:04:00 - [163]
 


That monitor setup looks like something from the matrix :P

Cassie Ragadda
Posted - 2010.04.03 12:49:00 - [164]
 

I use synergy for my work PC and my play PC. I can promise you that it does not perform any automated tasks, nor does it macro. If I don't physically touch the mouse and create the action of moving and clicking the mouse then it does nothing. It also only works on 1 pc at a time since the whole purpose of the (FREE) application is to do nothing but allow 1 keyboard and 1 mouse to work on multiple PCs, 1 at a time. You move your mouse to PC "A", you can do things on PC "A", you move the mouse to PC "B" you can do things on PC "B".

If you think this constitutes macroing then you need a new brain, because yours quit working. Macroing is defined by a program that performs actions FOR YOU.

If your not smart enough to come up with new ways to doing things and think because you cant drive a car that everyone should walk, that's your problem. Deal with it. I am so sick of people that don't have enough brain power, or willpower, or motivation to step outside the box. They claim because they cant do it no one should. Whaaaa I cant run 2 accounts on my pc whaaaa its not fair that others can. Its stupidity!


Speaking of GMs and how they treat customers and don't seem to follow any type of standardized procedures. I had 2 friends that were in a plex, reds jumped into the system but not to them. They both logged off, when they logged back in they both were in the station their ships gone no evemails, no insurance pay out. Petitions were filed. GM "A" restored clone, implants, ship for one of the 2 people. GM "B" said sorry can't help to the other. WTH is with that? CCP should work on improving CS, that's a bit fishy to me.

Being banned for using a simple utility that does nothing more than keep you from having to use 10 keyboards and 10 mice for 10 PCs, IMO was wrong. Next you will say switch boxes are macros too.

Its also sad that a GM can port in, say hey look, all those accounts are coming from the same IP, must be a macro. Should I make sure, should I see if it really is a macro? Naaa, I'm not held accountable for my actions. *click* I would fire someone for treating my customers like that. IMO they should be too. "**IF** they were to have done such a thing, you never know if that's the real story"

Until CCP comes out and says multiboxing is not permitted (which they never will because it will cut into their wallet) then I can run 100+ accounts if I want, and there is nothing any GM should do to interfere since they didn't say it was against the rules, Heck even Blizzard says Keyclone is allowed because its not a macro program it just simply sends the keyboard keys that you hit to all the PCs, but will do absolutely nothing if you don't make it. Thus not a macro.

Kortec
Minmatar
Chaotic Tranquility
Posted - 2010.04.03 13:27:00 - [165]
 

Salute to the OP...

Thinking outside the box !

- Kortec

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2010.04.03 21:01:00 - [166]
 

I actually petitioned this last night, because the lack of a response here is really annoying. Typically exploit petitions get replies within half an hour, this one's been there more than a day and still nothing...

Which is bad because I'd like to know if it's worth keeping my 2 alts or not...


I guess I'll have to keep bumping this topic till we get an answer Very Happy

Dogo Duma
Posted - 2010.04.03 21:49:00 - [167]
 

Edited by: Dogo Duma on 03/04/2010 21:48:53
Originally by: Cassie Ragadda
synergy


Kudos for not getting it Very Happy

This isn't about multiboxing in a sense of using multiple accounts, it's about multiboxing a selection of accounts through a synchronised set of controls which enable the player to control his accounts all at the same time without additional manual actions required on his behalf, accelerating his gameplay (and for the purposes of EVE accelerating his rate of progression / acquisition / damage / etc).

His first statements, focused on the use of software for the purposes of multiboxing, synchronising his control over multiple accounts. The software tool you are referring to is such a tool, the difference is that where you do not use any broadcasting options, he did. Effectively allowing him to use one means of control to direct all clients simultaneously.
To sketch a picture, where you would have to go from one client to the next and to the next, he would click once, and all his clients would execute the same action.

The most recent version of him is that rack of mice, tied together. Go figure.

It doesn't change the simple observation however. But, to avoid confusion it is probably an idea to point out those (maybe subtle) differences which keep normal gameplay with multiple accounts (on same machine or spread across multiple machines and controlled using such a tool like synergy) within the bounds of the EULA, and his gameplay which involves broadcasting/ducttape to control all accounts simultaneously.

Your gameplay isn't accelerated. His is.


Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2010.04.03 22:01:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Cambarus
I guess I'll have to keep bumping this topic till we get an answer Very Happy


You will not get an official answer here.

Noesis Dream
Posted - 2010.04.03 22:51:00 - [169]
 

Very Cool setup you have there!
He's physically using those accounts, no harm there if you ask me.
Lots of people dont seem too understand the difference between this and macro's.





Zhek Kromtor
Posted - 2010.04.04 00:48:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Dogo Duma
blah blah blah ACCELERATING blah blah blah...


I assure you my progress compared to a normal player or to a normal group of players is anything but accelerated. Let’s pretend I run missions 3 times as fast as a single player using 1 account That wealth is then spread out among 14 characters which means I gain wealth at a rate of 21% that of a normal player. Compare me to a group of individual players grouped together using 14 accounts to run missions and again I lag behind tremendously because it is so incredibly difficult to actually spread my guys out and loot or salvage efficiently. Then take a look at what the EULA is really restricting: macros. The acceleration they give is clearly seen in that the player can continue to gain wealth while not playing the game thus gaining wealth at a truly accelerated rate.

Literally the only advantage you could argue that I have over 14 individual players is my ability to focus fire with extreme coordination - that coordination could easily be matched by 14 people with half a brain and some discipline since I have to broadcast a target on my main and then attempt to sync click it with my other characters – the very same method by which they would focus fire. Using the overview for sync targeting is completely out of the question as it is incredibly unpredictable regardless of how it is sorted.

If what I am doing gives me an advantage as you claim then why are gangs of multiboxers not dominating the landscape of Eve? Why, in every MMO, is it considered an accomplishment for a multiboxer to achieve the same things that normal groups achieve?

You can say that using a wooden dowel or boxing software provides acceleration compared to not using it, but they only accelerate base multiboxing capabilities and never match or ever come close to exceeding the capabilities of individuals controlling the accounts i.e. “normal gameplay”.

Capt Fossil
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.04 00:56:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Boomershoot


You will not get an official answer here.


And that is just plain ignoring paying customers who want an ANSWER! Same as in the Macro miner thread.

Dramund
Sodom Eye Systems
Posted - 2010.04.04 01:04:00 - [172]
 

He was banned for it. I'd call that a pretty official answer.

Zhek Kromtor
Posted - 2010.04.04 01:10:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Dramund
He was banned for it. I'd call that a pretty official answer.


*facepalm*
I'm currently playing all 14 accounts now. I'm not banned, nor was I told not to play the accounts. Read the OP.

Nexus Kinonn
Posted - 2010.04.04 01:27:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Zhek Kromtor
Originally by: Dramund
He was banned for it. I'd call that a pretty official answer.


*facepalm*
I'm currently playing all 14 accounts now. I'm not banned, nor was I told not to play the accounts. Read the OP.


You were 3-day banned for using Synergy. That's in the OP.

Shinji Seto
Minmatar
Xolti Research
Posted - 2010.04.04 02:07:00 - [175]
 

You Mr. OP are pure win!

Capt Fossil
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.04 02:37:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Nexus Kinonn


I am a dork and am here live on this froum to prove it.
Rolling Eyes

Op, I saw you/them/you guys in Verge Vendor a couple of nights ago. I am totally impressed by your ingenuity and wish you the best of luck. Best of luck man.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.04 03:50:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Nexus Kinonn
Originally by: Zhek Kromtor
Originally by: Dramund
He was banned for it. I'd call that a pretty official answer.


*facepalm*
I'm currently playing all 14 accounts now. I'm not banned, nor was I told not to play the accounts. Read the OP.


You were 3-day banned for using Synergy. That's in the OP.


Do you think you could possibly troll any harder? CCP did not ban him for using Synergy according to anything posted. The only way you could know this is if you saw his ban email, which was not posted.

Mingus Sin
Posted - 2010.04.04 04:23:00 - [178]
 

I want to have your love child!


Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Posted - 2010.04.04 05:46:00 - [179]
 

3 words: Get A Life Shocked

Is it FUN to play like this? I mean seriously..

Amanda Mor
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.04 06:27:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Ulair Memmet
3 words: Get A Life Shocked

Is it FUN to play like this? I mean seriously..


Apparently it is (to him).

Seriously, can we dispense with the get a life comments? I called this guy a wacko in another thread that linked to this one the other day, but in a harmless way.

Is he a little crazy? Probably, yeah, but really who cares? Is he really any different than someone who spends 7 years rebuilding a 1969 Dodge Charger to Dukes of Hazzard specs (no, not me, a friend of mine - he's crazy)? You really think this guy spends more time on Eve than, oh I don't know, CHRIBBA? Nobody tells him to get a life.

If he's actually able to afford that setup (I'd guess it would have to run well north of $5,000 c/d?), then he likely has a successful career, which means he's light years ahead of most of the people here. And as mentioned before, just cause he has 14 accounts, doesn't mean he plays 14 times more than someone who has 1 account.

Oh, and I'm not one of his alts (which apparently would put me among the minority in the eve universe).



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