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Vipieris
Posted - 2010.03.25 13:28:00 - [1]
 

Hi everyone,

I'm 31, an avid Gamer, and new to EVE Online.

I'm a bit of a computer geek, and do a lot of software creation in my Government job.

I've been trying to find ways to create custom commands/macros in the game - macros that might, at the press of a button, "unlock" all targets, or toggle various modules on/offline.

Has anyone else experimented with this? Am I just missing something, or is this pretty hard/impossible to do? With my 23" widescreen at high-res and my Intel i7 smoking the maximum graphics settings, the text actually gets pretty small to right-click-left-click on, so I'm trying to find ways to maximize my potential.

Any comments/suggestions would be welcome.

Vipieris

DiamondX
Minmatar
Project ELT
Project Unconquerable
Posted - 2010.03.25 13:30:00 - [2]
 

Macros aren't allowed. You get banned for using macro.

Vipieris
Posted - 2010.03.25 13:44:00 - [3]
 

That's a bit of a disappointment though, because EVE's gameplay seems so restricted by the fact that it's predominantly a mouse-only game. Granted, so is Supreme Commander, but so too is Farmville... I was just expecting a bit more sophistication to the overall mechanic. Now believe me I'm not saying EVE isn't sophisticated. I've been playing for just over a week and am constantly overwhelmed by the scope of the rules, "skills" tree (I put it in quotes because it's not really a "skill" - it's just a timer countdown until you can do something new...) and variety of strategies. I just think it'd be neat to use a joystick and throttle control, or at least add some depth to the controls with more keyboard inputs, like "lock closest target" or "engage warp" for a quick escape. I was pretty disappointed when I scanned the list of available keyboard shortcuts. I guess I felt a bit of "That's it?" syndrome...


Oh well - thanks for the feedback regardless.

Removed references to other games per forum rule 17 - Adida

Blydchyld
Caldari
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.03.25 13:57:00 - [4]
 

Yeah a cool macro command is

/Hey GM please ban my account for using macro's.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2010.03.25 14:09:00 - [5]
 

use a bigger resolution on eve or change the font sizes, 23" of desktop space is plenty even not at the max res.

there are drone commands ingame you can set from the esc menu, you may also use G15 style keyboards to active normally F keys or drone commands etc, you just connot use macro software to replay commands.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.03.25 14:13:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Blydchyld
Yeah a cool macro command is

/Hey GM please ban my account for using macro's not knowing the difference between the possessive and plural.
Fix'd.

My Postman
Posted - 2010.03.25 14:16:00 - [7]
 

You are very near to activate the "banhammer" module by using your macroes....

Shaden Nightwalker
Tryblium Sanguinis
Posted - 2010.03.25 15:30:00 - [8]
 

I think the banhammer threats are a bit out of place here.
If I understand the OP correctly, he is looking for in-game commands (commands that are programmed by CCP, that is) allowing him to bind certain actions -like unlocking all targets- that one would normally have to do manually to a selectable button.

If anyone around here ever played Dark Age of Camelot they will know what I mean.

As to the OP's question: I don't think there is anything like this in eve, but maybe somebody can correct me.

Windows ME
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.03.25 15:53:00 - [9]
 

There are various macro softwares out there that can mimic long mouse/keyboard movements in nanoseconds, and they are not detectable.

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.03.25 15:57:00 - [10]
 

Being new to EVE you will find that EVE is curiously restrictive. Common-sense/intuitive "fixes" ideas and suggestions for game improvement usually go unheeded.

You will also find that the forum community is a bit "cut-throat" in attitude.


WELCOME! Very Happy

Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:03:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Windows ME
There are various macro softwares out there that can mimic long mouse/keyboard movements in nanoseconds, and they are not detectable.


Everything is detectable. Cool

Stray Bullets
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:05:00 - [12]
 

I would banhammer every troll around along with the macroers! (yep, I'd probably go too on some days on account of trolling but I feel like a good boy today! Laughing)


To the OP. You can press ESC and set just about every action into a keyboard shortcut, although targeting or something like "target nearest" doesn't not happen in EVE! There's a few good overview tutorials and having a decent overview for whatever task you're performing does wonders for the gameplay. Check the keyboard shortcuts and get a set of decent overview settings!


As for macros, you do get the banhammer pretty fast if caught so... play the game like everyone else!

Vipieris
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:11:00 - [13]
 

You will also find that the forum community is a bit "cut-throat" in attitude.

-------------------------

Yes - I have noticed this. It's okay though - folks like Blydchyld, Tippia and Postman just make me laugh. They've become so indelibly obsessed with an online video game that they've lost touch with reality - such as the ability to communicate with common respect and maturity. Honestly, it just makes me a little sad for them. :-( Poor little guys...

Anyhoo, obviously the answer is "no, it cannot be done." I'm not really sure how a macro that just repeats commands in the game a little quicker than I could do with one mouse is an unholy "bannable" offense. After all, this is a game about space and technology. Even Spock had better technology than a freakin' mouse. But whatever - I can always cancel the membership and play something else!

Windows ME
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:15:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Vipieris
But whatever - I can always cancel the membership and play something else!



Give me your stuff

Stray Bullets
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:16:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Vipieris
I can always cancel the membership and play something else!



so this means I can have your stuff? Question

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:28:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Benri Konpaku on 25/03/2010 16:28:54
Originally by: Vipieris
You will also find that the forum community is a bit "cut-throat" in attitude.

-------------------------

Yes - I have noticed this. It's okay though - folks like Blydchyld, Tippia and Postman just make me laugh. They've become so indelibly obsessed with an online video game that they've lost touch with reality - such as the ability to communicate with common respect and maturity. Honestly, it just makes me a little sad for them. :-( Poor little guys...

Anyhoo, obviously the answer is "no, it cannot be done." I'm not really sure how a macro that just repeats commands in the game a little quicker than I could do with one mouse is an unholy "bannable" offense. After all, this is a game about space and technology. Even Spock had better technology than a freakin' mouse. But whatever - I can always cancel the membership and play something else!


Can I have your stuff?




PS : There are several keyboard shortcuts you can use and even weapon stacking to simplify things a bit. Are you sure you've tried them all?

But yeah, just send me your stuff even if you don't cancel. YARRRR!!


Edit: We are so freaking predictable. Laughing

Stray Bullets
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Benri Konpaku
Edit: We are so freaking predictable. Laughing


Glad that's true or I wouldn't get any freakin kills when I went pew pew Twisted Evil

Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:37:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Vipieris
That's a bit of a disappointment though, because EVE's gameplay seems so restricted by the fact that it's predominantly a mouse-only game. Granted, so is Supreme Commander, but so too is Farmville... I was just expecting a bit more sophistication to the overall mechanic. Now believe me I'm not saying EVE isn't sophisticated. I've been playing for just over a week and am constantly overwhelmed by the scope of the rules, "skills" tree (I put it in quotes because it's not really a "skill" - it's just a timer countdown until you can do something new...) and variety of strategies. I just think it'd be neat to use a joystick and throttle control, or at least add some depth to the controls with more keyboard inputs, like "lock closest target" or "engage warp" for a quick escape. I was pretty disappointed when I scanned the list of available keyboard shortcuts. I guess I felt a bit of "That's it?" syndrome...


Oh well - thanks for the feedback regardless.

Removed references to other games per forum rule 17 - Adida
There is a way to control eve with a pad, look for it on the tech lab forum. It is implicitly allowed by the fact that it has not been banned from the forums since it started long time ago.

Nick Bete
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:48:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Nick Bete on 25/03/2010 17:01:08
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Blydchyld
Yeah a cool macro command is

/Hey GM please ban my account for using macro's not knowing the difference between the possessive and plural.
Fix'd.


I don't agree with a lot of what Tippia says, but on this point I have to say I AGREE and THANK YOU! I hate this abuse of punctuation/grammar. It makes me twitch whenever I see it.

Now if we can just work on the "to/too" and "your/you're" crowd....

Ok, you may have the thread back now.

Edit for constructive content: My understanding is that keyboard or mouse automation for use while you're actively playing Eve is kosher, it's the autobot mining/missioning software that's not allowed.

Schani Kratnorr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:57:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Vipieris
Hi everyone,

I'm 31, an avid Gamer, and new to EVE Online.

I'm a bit of a computer geek, and do a lot of software creation in my Government job.

I've been trying to find ways to create custom commands/macros in the game - macros that might, at the press of a button, "unlock" all targets, or toggle various modules on/offline.

Has anyone else experimented with this? Am I just missing something, or is this pretty hard/impossible to do? With my 23" widescreen at high-res and my Intel i7 smoking the maximum graphics settings, the text actually gets pretty small to right-click-left-click on, so I'm trying to find ways to maximize my potential.

Any comments/suggestions would be welcome.

Vipieris

I do not think the game engine itself allows for scripting beyond what is already there. Despite what the less informed seem to think, using macros is not forbidden. Using programs to simulate and/or automate human input is.

You can combine the built-in shortcuts (ESC menu,) with hardware like ligitechs G-series gaming keyboards. I myself use a Wacom Intos tablet. I programmed a button to CTRL+E which I then assiged to "Engage Drones" in the ESC menu.

There is no unlock targets option on the list of avilable shortcuts.
You can toggle modules on and off with th function keys, but you cannot on or offline them using a key kombo.

The whole macro discussion has, like the lag discussion, continued to be a source of much debate. Most players know nothing.

Quote:
Macro, a single computer instruction that results in a series of instructions in machine language


The term macro does not appear tobe specific enough. The EULA CCP had their suits type up references macros but defines a broad base of use. They have to since any user interaction can be thought of as a macro. In legal terms, the word is problematic - hence the definition.

The EULA Section 7a, part 3, about conduct specifically forbids macros:
Quote:
You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


The wording "stored rapid keystrokes" seems problematic. How do you define rapid keystrokes? If a logitech G-series keyboard is able to hit F1,F2,F3 and F4 at the touch of a button, how does that not violate the EULA as it is written?

This is a question I have not seen answered to anyones satisfaction.

Hope that helps Vipieris.

Oh and, Welcome to eve.

CCP Adida


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.25 16:58:00 - [21]
 

Please keep this topic EVE only related per forum rule 17.

Kortanul
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.03.25 17:11:00 - [22]
 

If you wanted to you could pretty much fully automate the game with a program like Autohotkey and unless CCP ran some kind of monitoring program in the background they would not know. But don't you think automating the game process kinda takes the fun out of actually playing it?

Vipieris
Posted - 2010.03.25 17:20:00 - [23]
 

Thanks, Adida - I should have known that the forum rules would make as little sense as the rules in EVE itself! I see no issue whatsoever in comparing EVE's game mechanics to other titles. I'm sorry - I've seen countless references to "World of Warcraft" already in just one week!! Heck, there was one before the post that you modified!!!

And I apologize to Tippie - I thought he was trying to insult me somehow. I misunderstood. But in all honesty, does anyone really know the plural to "Macro?" I've teetered between "macros," "macroes," and "those thingies..."

Anyways, BTT - yes I have scanned the list of keyboard shortcuts several times. I'd really like one that would "lock on" to whatever you have selected, or - as mentioned above - clear all locked targets. This is especially frustrating when you're scooping up a little ore and suddenly encounter pirates - trying to switch targets while powering up the weapon modules is a little frustrating - not to mention time-consuming. It has gotten better though with the increase in my targeting skill.

I can see - and was just reading elsewhere of - macros being used to mine while players were AFK. Whereas part of me can see the "inappropriateness" of doing so, it's still certainly not done without substantial risk. I say those players should be allowed to do this - provided that they accept the risk without argument. This is in fact the greatest issue when you create a game of such magnitude - it becomes increasingly difficult to "draw the line" between what is possible - or in this case "allowable" - and what isn't. As I said before; we're playing in a simulated future - in a world that exists far beyond what we might consider possible today. How can then you say that, "Well, in the future, computers aren't smart enough to be programmed with a series of commands to perform continuously until otherwise interrupted, deactivated or destroyed"? You challenge me to engage in a deep, challenging and technical simulation while leaving out functions that even Microsoft Excel can perform...

Anyways, I realize in some ways I'm preaching to the choir. I think the people who lash out against it are simply upset that they themselves cannot, or don't know how...

In the meantime, I am not and do not intend on using third-party macro programs - but if I did, I'd make them smart enough to not be detected... Wink

Vipieris

voiddragon
Posted - 2010.03.25 17:22:00 - [24]
 

Space ships should never be controled by joysticks. It doesn't make sense... even the frigates are massive machines, not fighter jets.

Barakkus
Posted - 2010.03.25 18:03:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: voiddragon
Space ships should never be controled by joysticks. It doesn't make sense... even the frigates are massive machines, not fighter jets.


Someone did make a joystick control app for eve.

Iture
Caldari
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.03.25 18:33:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Vipieris
words


That would be great, if you weren't jacked directly into the ship.

WarlockX
Amarr
Free Trade Corp
Posted - 2010.03.25 18:40:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: DiamondX
Macros aren't allowed. You get banned for using macro.


All you dumb asses need to learn to use your brains.
He isn't talking about a BOT.
He is talking about keyboard shortcuts.

Most mouses come with built in macros now a days as do most Keyboards. News flash keyboards and mice aren't bannable!Rolling Eyes

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.03.25 18:50:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Kyra Felann on 25/03/2010 19:03:17
Originally by: Vipieris
That's a bit of a disappointment though, because EVE's gameplay seems so restricted by the fact that it's predominantly a mouse-only game. Granted, so is Supreme Commander, but so too is Farmville... I was just expecting a bit more sophistication to the overall mechanic. Now believe me I'm not saying EVE isn't sophisticated. I've been playing for just over a week and am constantly overwhelmed by the scope of the rules, "skills" tree (I put it in quotes because it's not really a "skill" - it's just a timer countdown until you can do something new...) and variety of strategies. I just think it'd be neat to use a joystick and throttle control, or at least add some depth to the controls with more keyboard inputs, like "lock closest target" or "engage warp" for a quick escape. I was pretty disappointed when I scanned the list of available keyboard shortcuts. I guess I felt a bit of "That's it?" syndrome...


I do agree that EVE is entirely too mouse-centric and that it needs more keyboard shortcuts.

Whether or not EVE needs built-in support for macros, I'm less inclined to agree.

Most people here will probably agree that EVE's UI needs some serious work, if not a complete overhaul. I think it's not bad other than the fact that you really cannot play without keeping your hand on the mouse 90% of the time. Most "digital" functions like activating things should be assignable to a key shortcut. It's silly that there's no "warp to" or "jump" keyboard shortcuts, for instance. It just makes things slower and causes unnecessary wrist strain.

People will say that more functions with assignable shortcuts will lead to more illegal macro use, but discouraging macro use shouldn't be done through bad UI design--and requiring you to click a button with a mouse instead of letting you press a real button on your keyboard is absolutely bad UI design.

BTW, they are skills--they don't just let you do stuff, but they also affect how well you can do things. In other words, most of them give bonuses to various things that you do.

Originally by: Vipieris
But in all honesty, does anyone really know the plural to "Macro?" I've teetered between "macros," "macroes," and "those thingies..."


Well, apostrophes are never ever ever used for pluralization. They are for contractions and showing ownership, not pluralization. If in doubt, just adding an 's' usually works well enough and makes my brain explode much less than seeing apostrophes stuck where they don't belong. I'd much prefer to see the occasional "gooses" or "deers" than "guy's" or "macro's" because adding " s " is usually correct, whereas adding " 's " is never correct.

BTW, there is a way to quickly target something--CTRL+click it. I don't think it's documented anywhere, though.

Vipieris
Posted - 2010.03.25 23:12:00 - [29]
 

BTW, there is a way to quickly target something--CTRL+click it. I don't think it's documented anywhere, though.

--------------------------------------------


Sir, for that information alone, you are now my absolute hero... Tried it already - works like a charm.

Thank you.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2010.03.25 23:46:00 - [30]
 

There's always the slash me command...

and a whole lot other slash commands that are only usable on GM/Dev/ISD accounts so I'm not going into those.

slashC


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