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Kate Machine
Posted - 2010.03.25 21:23:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador

to the op, you don't need to fly expensive ships. battlecruisers > hacs :)


tellin' teh truth!

Jack Airron
Gallente
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.03.25 21:35:00 - [62]
 

I R DA AFFORDING TO PLAYZ EVE DEAR FORS I RS DA ROKOT SURGEN!!!!!!!

LoudMouth InLocal
Posted - 2010.03.25 22:04:00 - [63]
 

Can I have your stu.... Oh, wait...

Thargorr
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.03.25 22:20:00 - [64]
 

I'd say understanding the psychology behind MMO design is the best way to understand why it's rigged like this. Basically it's designed to be addictive, not fun, and the reason you're being flamed is because you pointed out to a bunch of junkies that their drug of choice is not actually all that fun, just you know...addictive.

This is a great "Dummies Guide" to what I'm talking about.

Nuadara
Posted - 2010.03.25 23:09:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Thargorr
the reason you're being flamed is because you pointed out to a bunch of junkies that their drug of choice is not actually all that fun, just you know...addictive.



lemme guess, you can quit at any time?

Thargorr
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.03.26 00:31:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Nuadara
Originally by: Thargorr
the reason you're being flamed is because you pointed out to a bunch of junkies that their drug of choice is not actually all that fun, just you know...addictive.



lemme guess, you can quit at any time?


Everything but the forums! I started my first character (not on this account) in '05. I log in every month or two to change skills. Haven't had all three of my accounts active at once since '08 and there was a 3-4 month gap in 2009 when none of my accounts are active. I check back in the forums from time to time though. Mostly cause I miss Akita. I dunno how that man keeps interest for so long!

Jack Airron
Gallente
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.03.26 02:28:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Thargorr
Originally by: Nuadara
Originally by: Thargorr
the reason you're being flamed is because you pointed out to a bunch of junkies that their drug of choice is not actually all that fun, just you know...addictive.



lemme guess, you can quit at any time?


Everything but the forums! I started my first character (not on this account) in '05. I log in every month or two to change skills. Haven't had all three of my accounts active at once since '08 and there was a 3-4 month gap in 2009 when none of my accounts are active. I check back in the forums from time to time though. Mostly cause I miss Akita. I dunno how that man keeps interest for so long!



Hes a she.

yourdoingitwrong
Posted - 2010.03.26 02:40:00 - [68]
 

ah so,

Shiii dis thread rearry bad awwwww

Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2010.03.26 17:08:00 - [69]
 

kek?

Sig Sour
Posted - 2010.03.26 18:00:00 - [70]
 

I have built a few rockets.

1. paper hull, butane proppelant.
2. gasoline and a liter bottle.
3. nearly empty bottle of booze.
4. when I was young I loved Estes model rockets.

I do not consider myself a scientist, however the experiences of putting a flame to fuel was in fact training for making isk in Eve. So the OP is correct. If I had not had the experiences with rockets that I have had, I may be forced to sell PLEX instead of buying them.

New face1578
Posted - 2010.03.26 19:19:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Psychotic Maniac
Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 24/03/2010 11:11:12

Now, I may be missing something. But, I don't have hours upon hours to spend online grinding isk just so I can accumulate enough to have fun. Anyone that says they are having fun grinding isk; whatever manner that may be is either a carebear or lying to themselves. I have a real life and that doesn't include spending my cash for a plex that buys me a few hacs or w/e. RMT? If that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.

I really don't find it feasable to bring a t1 cruiser when everyone else is flying hacs, etc. I don't care how good a pilot you are. Even Garmon's alts in ruppys will get pwned by a decent fleet within seconds.

Hopefully, that new planet stuff ccp is working on will be of some help and not require many hrs./isk invested on it to get some up and running factories. Rather, try to be of some help. Until all the morons price themselves out of the market.

How to fix the problems? Not sure. But, wouldn't eliminating ISK<-->GTC's and 30 day plex's be a good start. Then, make invention something that works. Require less moon goo materials to build t2 ships. How bout some insurance for t2 ships. Any or all those suggestions will drastically fix many problems eve has.

Seen many frustrated friends leave due to the current structure.

Now, can something be done?


I actually find running lvl 5's and wormholes with friends to make isk alot more fun than the majority of eves pvp. You dont like grinding? Make a trade alt, get good at it, pvp on the profit. Or buy an etc and sell it. Or one of the other ways that don't need the grind. If a hobby is not fun for you then don't, you know, do it.

So in short, UR DOIN IT RONG!

Delenne Sheridan
Posted - 2010.03.26 20:26:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Grunanca
Edited by: Grunanca on 24/03/2010 09:40:33
Originally by: Psychotic Maniac
Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 24/03/2010 09:24:28

Now, I may be missing something. But, I don't have hours upon hours to spend online grinding isk just so I can accumulate enough to have fun. Anyone that says they are having fun grinding isk; whatever manner that may be is either a carebear or lying to themselves. I have a real life and that doesn't include spending my cash for a plex that buys me a few hacs or w/e. RMT? If that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.

I really don't find it feasable to bring a t1 cruiser when everyone else is flying hacs, etc. I don't care how good a pilot you are. Even Garmon's alts in ruppys will get pwned by a decent fleet within seconds.

Hopefully, that new planet stuff ccp is working on will be of some help and not require many hrs./isk invested on it to get some up and running factories. Rather, try to be of some help. Until all the morons price themselves out of the market.

How to fix the problems? Not sure. But, wouldn't eliminating GTC's and 30 plex's be a good start. Then, make invention something that works. Require less moon goo materials to build t2 ships. How bout some insurance for t2 ships. Any or all those suggestions will drastically fix many problems eve has.

Seen many frustrated friends leave due to the current struture.

Now, can something be done?


Yeah I hate spending 2-3 hours per month moving stuff between my POS towersSadWill definately have to stop doing it and buy 10 plexes per month instead!

Dude, its incredible easy to make a fortune in EVE, the only thing keeping you from it is your fear of losing stuff. Cowards are poor in EVE, because they dont go out and take their chances in areas were people might shoot at them.
Then why dont you share how to do that will us all...

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2010.03.26 20:58:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: New face1578
If a hobby is not fun for you then don't, you know, do it.


This.

King Gore
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.03.26 21:13:00 - [74]
 

I have 17m, how can i help?

Shal'tin
The Northern Cross
Posted - 2010.03.26 21:59:00 - [75]
 

I guess having a degree in Marine Engineering from one of the best maritime academy's along with a commission in the military and with a possible post at NASA precludes me from playing EVE then -sighs- Pitty I did well in this game.

O.. WTF CCP! 17k and its a water world??!?!?! Ummm no....

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.03.27 16:33:00 - [76]
 

The OP makes valid points. Losing anything but a t1 frigate is going to require at least a couple of hours grinding to replace it and the mods lost assuming one is able to grind out 50mil/hour missioning. A myrm for instance: 28mil - hull, 3mil - drones, 4/5 mil - guns, +/- 20/30mil in other mods, plus 100mil in implants (conservative) when you get podded. Anything less than a year's training time and you're not going to make 50/mil/hr grinding missions. Actual grind times for those players who didn't plan on committing a year of focused training are going to be substantially longer.

The rest of you can choose to ignore this as a problem. But it is a problem. Granted I don't know what CCP could do. It's structure is so that the game remains relevant to even long term players. But for the new guys there really isn't much to do in Eve except grind. They're going to go out in their t1 frigates to an assured death. Everyone that tells them to fly t1 frigates knows this. They are the fodder in the fleet. They serve their purpose and then they're done. If they're lucky, they don't get podded.

Perhaps there isn't a solution. But that doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

Zartrader
Posted - 2010.03.27 16:44:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Zartrader on 27/03/2010 17:05:00






Originally by: Mr Kidd
The OP makes valid points. Losing anything but a t1 frigate is going to require at least a couple of hours grinding to replace it and the mods lost assuming one is able to grind out 50mil/hour missioning. A myrm for instance: 28mil - hull, 3mil - drones, 4/5 mil - guns, +/- 20/30mil in other mods, plus 100mil in implants (conservative) when you get podded. Anything less than a year's training time and you're not going to make 50/mil/hr grinding missions. Actual grind times for those players who didn't plan on committing a year of focused training are going to be substantially longer.

The rest of you can choose to ignore this as a problem. But it is a problem. Granted I don't know what CCP could do. It's structure is so that the game remains relevant to even long term players. But for the new guys there really isn't much to do in Eve except grind. They're going to go out in their t1 frigates to an assured death. Everyone that tells them to fly t1 frigates knows this. They are the fodder in the fleet. They serve their purpose and then they're done. If they're lucky, they don't get podded.

Perhaps there isn't a solution. But that doesn't mean there isn't a problem.



There is no problem. Can't you see where your making wrong assumptions all the time?:

1. Why are you just grinding? You not read the numerous ways to make ISK? If you still choose to grind that's your fault. Many of us have several income streams. It's not hard. There are posts all over the place telling you how to do it, it really is very easy with very little training.

2. Why are you losing T2 ships? Flying them before you're are competent to do so deserves losses. Fly T1 until you are ready and as a hint it takes a lot more than SP's to be good at it.

3. Why are you being podded? That's easy to avoid. you should only be podded in a bubble or with extreme lag. If you do not know that why are you risking implants? You know how PVP players manage their implants to reduce substantial cost in case of the rare pod? If not, why don't you know? In fact long term players have a big disadvantage here in medical and clone costs. Did you not read the post about that?

4. Long term players. What do they have to do with how you play the game? With your attitude you'd still have problems in 5 years, although then you'd blame those playing for 10. This is the most accessible game I have ever played. If you assume you can't do something that's not the games fault. Where did you get the years training from? You can be earning easy ISK in this game in a matter of weeks.

I wish people would stop blaming the game when they have clearly not bothered to learn it past running missions. If you can't see the game past you're nose then you are not playing the game properly at all.

Its like me playing a game, not bothering to read the rules and then blaming everyone else when I lose. Learn the game before you complain about it.


Psychotic Maniac
Caldari
Head Shrinkers
Posted - 2010.03.27 20:40:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Zartrader
Edited by: Zartrader on 27/03/2010 17:05:00

There is no problem. Can't you see where your making wrong assumptions all the time?:

1. Why are you just grinding? You not read the numerous ways to make ISK? If you still choose to grind that's your fault. Many of us have several income streams. It's not hard. There are posts all over the place telling you how to do it, it really is very easy with very little training.

2. Why are you losing T2 ships? Flying them before you're are competent to do so deserves losses. Fly T1 until you are ready and as a hint it takes a lot more than SP's to be good at it.

3. Why are you being podded? That's easy to avoid. you should only be podded in a bubble or with extreme lag. If you do not know that why are you risking implants? You know how PVP players manage their implants to reduce substantial cost in case of the rare pod? If not, why don't you know? In fact long term players have a big disadvantage here in medical and clone costs. Did you not read the post about that?

4. Long term players. What do they have to do with how you play the game? With your attitude you'd still have problems in 5 years, although then you'd blame those playing for 10. This is the most accessible game I have ever played. If you assume you can't do something that's not the games fault. Where did you get the years training from? You can be earning easy ISK in this game in a matter of weeks.

I wish people would stop blaming the game when they have clearly not bothered to learn it past running missions. If you can't see the game past you're nose then you are not playing the game properly at all.

Its like me playing a game, not bothering to read the rules and then blaming everyone else when I lose. Learn the game before you complain about it.


Miss, you are no rocket scientist. You're just another one of those rats pressing buttons. That was a good post btw...pretty much true and how eve is designed.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.03.27 21:04:00 - [79]
 

hateful troll is hateful.

0/10.

"you should eliminate your income because it makes it hard for me to play the game".

Go bob for apples in a public toilet.

Vernn Miller
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.03.29 10:41:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Vernn Miller on 29/03/2010 10:51:20
Join a null sec alliance.
Farm anomalies.
Loot and salvage.
Reprocess and build rigs / ammo / T1 mods and put them on sell orders.
Use the ISK from bounties to buy and sell stuffz.
PROFIT
Watch yer wallet grow and after say 2-3 months ya can lay back living off yer trades.

That is how I do it now and I do quite OK for such a young pilot as myself Very Happy .


ALSO no pain no gain so stop *****ing YARRRR!! .

edit: seems CCP doesnt like the word *****...

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.03.29 11:25:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 29/03/2010 11:26:50
Originally by: Mr Kidd
The OP makes valid points. Losing anything but a t1 frigate is going to require at least a couple of hours grinding to replace it and the mods lost assuming one is able to grind out 50mil/hour missioning. A myrm for instance: 28mil - hull, 3mil - drones, 4/5 mil - guns, +/- 20/30mil in other mods, plus 100mil in implants (conservative) when you get podded.


Learn to insure. The loss of a Myrmidon hull is practically free. The loss cost of a fitted Myrmidon should typically not exceed ~35 million, and you can fit it properly (read: with T2 everything that counts) for less. Implants should not be lost out of 0.0 with any regularity and you can use jumpclones or implantless clones anyway (I did for a first year or so).

It's fairly easy to make 35M in a BC, anyway. One HAC ransom and you can afford to lose two YARRRR!!


Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.04.05 13:39:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Zartrader
Edited by: Zartrader on 27/03/2010 17:05:00
There is no problem. Can't you see where your making wrong assumptions all the time?:

1. Why are you just grinding? You not read the numerous ways to make ISK? If you still choose to grind that's your fault. Many of us have several income streams. It's not hard. There are posts all over the place telling you how to do it, it really is very easy with very little training.

2. Why are you losing T2 ships? Flying them before you're are competent to do so deserves losses. Fly T1 until you are ready and as a hint it takes a lot more than SP's to be good at it.

3. Why are you being podded? That's easy to avoid. you should only be podded in a bubble or with extreme lag. If you do not know that why are you risking implants? You know how PVP players manage their implants to reduce substantial cost in case of the rare pod? If not, why don't you know? In fact long term players have a big disadvantage here in medical and clone costs. Did you not read the post about that?

4. Long term players. What do they have to do with how you play the game? With your attitude you'd still have problems in 5 years, although then you'd blame those playing for 10. This is the most accessible game I have ever played. If you assume you can't do something that's not the games fault. Where did you get the years training from? You can be earning easy ISK in this game in a matter of weeks.

I wish people would stop blaming the game when they have clearly not bothered to learn it past running missions. If you can't see the game past you're nose then you are not playing the game properly at all.

Its like me playing a game, not bothering to read the rules and then blaming everyone else when I lose. Learn the game before you complain about it.




Point #1: All the numerous ways of making isk in eve are grinds. You've got mining, trading, crafting, missioning, pvp. Oh and ninjaing. Don't tell me that mining, trading, crafting and missioning are not grinds. PVP....most PVPers I've ever met were broke doing it until they went back to hi-sec to grind the other means of income. Anyone that's told me they make their fortune solely pvp, I don't believe it. If you're able to make PVP profitable more power to you.

Point #2: Who said anything about T2 ships?

Point #3: Now, I can't say for sure, but when I warp to a safe spot to try not to be podded, I'm already podded. Not once have I ever not been lagged to hell and back by my ship being popped. And never have I been able to warp out before someone insta-locks my pod and kills it. Thats having safe spots in that system open in a separate window for quickly warping to them or hammering the warp button to a celestial even before my ship pops. It may work well for you. But in my experience, you lose your ship, you will be podded.

Point #4: Could it be that you are so intent on proving your point that you failed to actually read what I had to say? I only indicated that the game REMAINS RELEVANT, EVEN FOR LONG TERM PLAYERS. How the fu*k do you get out of that I'm blaming anyone for anything?

Dirk Culliford
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.04.05 16:47:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Psychotic Maniac
I really don't find it feasable to bring a t1 cruiser when everyone else is flying hacs, etc.




So by your argument, everybody except you is a rocket scientist?

Jovialmadness
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:57:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/04/2010 20:00:34
Originally by: Psychotic Maniac
Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 24/03/2010 11:11:12

Now, I may be missing something. But, I don't have hours upon hours to spend online grinding isk just so I can accumulate enough to have fun. Anyone that says they are having fun grinding isk; whatever manner that may be is either a carebear or lying to themselves. I have a real life and that doesn't include spending my cash for a plex that buys me a few hacs or w/e. RMT? If that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.

I really don't find it feasable to bring a t1 cruiser when everyone else is flying hacs, etc. I don't care how good a pilot you are. Even Garmon's alts in ruppys will get pwned by a decent fleet within seconds.

Hopefully, that new planet stuff ccp is working on will be of some help and not require many hrs./isk invested on it to get some up and running factories. Rather, try to be of some help. Until all the morons price themselves out of the market.

How to fix the problems? Not sure. But, wouldn't eliminating ISK<-->GTC's and 30 day plex's be a good start. Then, make invention something that works. Require less moon goo materials to build t2 ships. How bout some insurance for t2 ships. Any or all those suggestions will drastically fix many problems eve has.

Seen many frustrated friends leave due to the current structure.

Now, can something be done?


absolutely something can be done. You can go play wow. Everything you just mentioned is wow. Eve, I'm fairly sure, is not wow. Therfore wow is your piece of cake. Eve=hard mode. Wow=rainbow pony online mode.

Anymore advice and I will have to begin charging a fee.

Thanks!

Edit: but you will need to change your name. Psychotic Maniac won't look good in a game like wow where the difficulty setting is set inline with rainbow pony's.

Psychotic Maniac
Caldari
Head Shrinkers
Posted - 2010.04.05 22:16:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Vernn Miller
Edited by: Vernn Miller on 29/03/2010 10:51:20
Join a null sec alliance.
Farm anomalies.
Loot and salvage.
Reprocess and build rigs / ammo / T1 mods and put them on sell orders.
Use the ISK from bounties to buy and sell stuffz.
PROFIT
Watch yer wallet grow and after say 2-3 months ya can lay back living off yer trades.

That is how I do it now and I do quite OK for such a young pilot as myself Very Happy .


ALSO no pain no gain so stop *****ing YARRRR!! .

edit: seems CCP doesnt like the word *****...

everything you mentioned takes hrs. upon hrs. as described in the op.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.05 23:26:00 - [86]
 

1. Train rocket science to 4 or 5
2. Start research
3. Profit?

beardevil
Posted - 2010.04.06 01:27:00 - [87]
 

IIRC there's a great quote somewhere from someone in NASA saying there's no such thing as a rocket scientist: There are scientists and there are rocket engineers. Does that mean non of us can afford eve? uh-oh. CCP are screwed.

MartinJinSin
Posted - 2010.04.06 05:27:00 - [88]
 

I dunno what your doing wrong but I personally make enough isk to buy all the ships and mods I want/need and pay for my sub. Therefore must reexamine how your playing because you are clearing doing something wrong.

Athalwolf
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.06 08:18:00 - [89]
 

Stop flying out to 0.0 loosing Ibises, that will surely save you a ton of ISK.
Confirming OP is an obvious troll.

Polaris Lumine
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.04.06 09:55:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Psychotic Maniac
Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 24/03/2010 11:11:12

Now, I may be missing something.
/thread




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