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blankseplocked Somethings else 0.0 players can do about empire.
 
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Scarlet Crimson
Posted - 2010.03.17 18:59:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Scarlet Crimson on 17/03/2010 19:03:05
Just a few examples.

1. Invite empire mission runners to your 0.0 allianes.

You benefit form their mission running in the form of taxes. Sure this may come with having to offer some protection but your pvp pilots won't be bored if this protection means mission runners can do lowsec agents. If there truly is no one attacking them on their missions, then help them finish their missions faster. More money for both pvp pilots and the corporatiosn in the alliance. Most of those mission runners will l2pvp as well thus increasing your pvp strength in wars.

2. Fight for a safe empire to your 0.0 space passage.

this brings high end minerals to the market in a manner that is not reprocessing t1 modules.

It will also increase the availability of trit to empire. Take a look at how much trit you need to make a Titan to see why you should want this :P

3. With 0.0 empires fighting over empire trade routes, you not only have something else to pew pew about, but you also are doing something other than whine about empire.. to improve the empire situation.

4. This is just for a start. There is some module balances needed to humble pirates and embolden empire players, but that won't happen untill the 0.0 players remember that everything they do also affects everything that happens in the game.. including the empire problem.

5. 0.0 needs something for people who enjoy mision runners. ( other than working for pirate npc corps ) Not sure what to do about this however.

Just some thoughts out of the current box. Not saying this is 100% accurate, but it couldn't hurt eh Laughing

I can feel the pyre even before the first reply... oh well. Thats what I get for thinking differently.

Iva Posavec
Takhar Matari Militia
Posted - 2010.03.17 19:27:00 - [2]
 

1. A 0.0 alliance recruiting folks who spend their time in hi-sec running missions means that the alliance will be under constant war-dec. Having pvp'ers providing protection to these mission runners means that the pvp'ers are not in a position to respond to immediate threats like roaming gangs resulting in the 0.0 home areas being vulnerable. Also you mention how if there is no threat to the mission runners then the pvp'ers can help them finish the missions quicker, problem is that the majority of pvp'ers do not want to be helping folks with their mission which is partly why people go to 0.0 in the first place.

2. Fighting for a safe empire to the alliances 0.0 areas is not necessary apart from the low-sec systems if any and the capital jump systems which. High end minerals for the market can be easily brought to an alliances home by use of non-alliance member corporations and characters, any half decent alliance does it's hauling through alts. Oh and stuff like Tritanium for titans is obtainable through 0.0 mining, and you don't have the problem of the belts being mined out by other peoples mining bots.

3. Does all 0.0 based alliances whine about Empire? I doubt it as most people couldn't give a ****.

4. See answer 3.

5. 0.0 has combat sites through exploration and there is also wormholes. The same as mission running minus the LP's and standings.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.03.17 19:27:00 - [3]
 

I have a query regarding your 0.0 space passage

Scarlet Crimson
Posted - 2010.03.17 19:43:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Iva Posavec
1. A 0.0 alliance recruiting folks who spend their time in hi-sec running missions means that the alliance will be under constant war-dec. Having pvp'ers providing protection to these mission runners means that the pvp'ers are not in a position to respond to immediate threats like roaming gangs resulting in the 0.0 home areas being vulnerable. Also you mention how if there is no threat to the mission runners then the pvp'ers can help them finish the missions quicker, problem is that the majority of pvp'ers do not want to be helping folks with their mission which is partly why people go to 0.0 in the first place.

2. Fighting for a safe empire to the alliances 0.0 areas is not necessary apart from the low-sec systems if any and the capital jump systems which. High end minerals for the market can be easily brought to an alliances home by use of non-alliance member corporations and characters, any half decent alliance does it's hauling through alts. Oh and stuff like Tritanium for titans is obtainable through 0.0 mining, and you don't have the problem of the belts being mined out by other peoples mining bots.

3. Does all 0.0 based alliances whine about Empire? I doubt it as most people couldn't give a ****.

4. See answer 3.

5. 0.0 has combat sites through exploration and there is also wormholes. The same as mission running minus the LP's and standings.


I recognize all of the above.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.03.17 19:55:00 - [5]
 

Might be hard to believe, but hisec L4 runners offer so much more to a 0.0 Corp/Alliance than it offers them.. They're completely self sufficient on their own, and would never ask for anything from the corp, while they'd be bringing more standings and tax revenue than anyone in 0.0 would. All they'd really get out of the deal is the chance to lose their PvE ships while running a mission because of a random wardec. I'm sure some might be lured in with the promise of "pvp experience", but after a week or two they would have experienced all pvp has to offer.

I agree that there needs to be more of a draw for mission runners to bother with 0.0, but i think the best way to do that would be to make PvP less pointless. Mission runners are only concerned with profit. They don't care about the agenda of some CEO who never speaks to them.

Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
Posted - 2010.03.17 22:22:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Scarlet Crimson
Edited by: Scarlet Crimson on 17/03/2010 19:03:05
Just a few examples.

1. Invite empire mission runners to your 0.0 allianes.

You benefit form their mission running in the form of taxes. Sure this may come with having to offer some protection but your pvp pilots won't be bored if this protection means mission runners can do lowsec agents. If there truly is no one attacking them on their missions, then help them finish their missions faster. More money for both pvp pilots and the corporatiosn in the alliance. Most of those mission runners will l2pvp as well thus increasing your pvp strength in wars.

2. Fight for a safe empire to your 0.0 space passage.

this brings high end minerals to the market in a manner that is not reprocessing t1 modules.

It will also increase the availability of trit to empire. Take a look at how much trit you need to make a Titan to see why you should want this :P

3. With 0.0 empires fighting over empire trade routes, you not only have something else to pew pew about, but you also are doing something other than whine about empire.. to improve the empire situation.

4. This is just for a start. There is some module balances needed to humble pirates and embolden empire players, but that won't happen untill the 0.0 players remember that everything they do also affects everything that happens in the game.. including the empire problem.

5. 0.0 needs something for people who enjoy mision runners. ( other than working for pirate npc corps ) Not sure what to do about this however.

Just some thoughts out of the current box. Not saying this is 100% accurate, but it couldn't hurt eh Laughing

I can feel the pyre even before the first reply... oh well. Thats what I get for thinking differently.


CVA alt detected.

Daedalus II
Helios Research
Posted - 2010.03.17 22:36:00 - [7]
 

I had a suggestion about a way to make this happen in the assembly hall:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1278615&page=1#1

The main idea being to have the industrial and mission running indices give a bonus to 0.0 system defenses (the higher the index, the harder the system is to take over). That way mission runners/miners would be useful for 0.0 alliances, even if they can't pvp at all. The mere fact that they operate in the system would make it tougher and therefore indirectly helping with the defense of the system.

Ghoest
Posted - 2010.03.17 22:40:00 - [8]
 

The OP doesnt understand how EVE works.

-Basically there is no in game infrastructure to make this worth while(as regards industry and trade.)

-Additionally it would just lead to nuisance wars that would distract from the real concerns in 0.0

-Trade routes are useless thanks the absurdity called cyno.

Ard UnjiiGo
Meatshield Bastards
Posted - 2010.03.17 23:50:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 17/03/2010 23:54:24

Originally by: Scarlet Crimson

There is some module balances needed to humble pirates and embolden empire players, but that won't happen untill the 0.0 players remember that everything they do also affects everything that happens in the game.. including the empire problem.



1) What empire problem? Only empire problem I can think of is that high-sec needs nerfed so we might end up with less panty waist players. Was there a different problem with empire I've missed?

2) Humble pirates? Keep dreaming panty waist.

3) Embolden high-sec players? Invertebrates will never grow spines.

TLDR: Why should anyone care about what you think 0.0 should do for empire?

I await your reply with bated breath. Laughing

Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr
Max G Storage and Logistics
Posted - 2010.03.17 23:54:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 17/03/2010 23:54:20
Inevitably what would happen is that high sec mission runners would end up supplementing the 0.0 effort. So bad idea.

You want 0.0 access? Then muscle your way in like the rest of us by either going down and fighting for one of the alliances there, or as a freebooter doing your own thing and taking the lumps as they come at you.

yourdoingitwrong
Posted - 2010.03.18 00:31:00 - [11]
 

empire noobs are so clueless.

have you ever thought of "gasp" using existing game mechanics to get out into 0.0 like the thousands of others that did. Its easier than ever since the nano nerf, giant gates, cloaking everything cynos etc. CCP made it as easy as they could now its time for empire to HTFU and use what they were given if they want into 0.0

Nedefeg
Posted - 2010.03.18 01:04:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Nedefeg on 18/03/2010 01:11:58
failing to grasp the crucial point

inflating the alliance size with useless worthless parasites (allso known as empire missioners) is bad , because , at some point , your alliance numbers come into play when dealing with others . With friendlies , well , if you have a 2000 man alliance and can only bring 200 when called upon...you`ll lose said friendly very fast . With hostiles...well....if you suddenly grow from that pet nobody ever heard off to a 2000 man alliance , you`ll start drawing attenntion

Simply generating a little tax income just wont sufice . Alliance members should be expected to cary there own weight and contribute to the alliance (most of the times that`s pvp) . Most alliance dont lack industry people , ussualy alts of the guys who do the PvP . Bringing in parasites will just cut into the income of the allready existing people . Same with belts/plexes/rats. I`ve had the unplsant experience of a very rude nobody who was in alliance for over 2 months and has never shown up in any fleets smacking me for "killing his chains"....so i killed him instead

The only use I can see for empire parasites in alliances is ...recruit them , have them bring all there crap in 0.0 then kick them , and pod them till they firesell all there junk @ 50% jita price or lower

See , thing is the guys who do pvp can (and most of the time do) play very well at the other aspects of the game , industry , pve , etc...in fact far far better then the selftitled "professional mission runners"in empire
On the other hand , the mentioned parasites can do nothing except generating some little ammounts of isk solo .

why would anyone sane want anything to do with them ? (except pop them ofcourse ) They are just as productive for an alliance as recruiting rats would be

edit : I know most empire parasites like to delude themselfes into thinking they contribute (you know tha "we build it you blow it up"" kind of story, where without them eve would colapse as noone would build anything , and everyone would be just killing crap

That is soo wrong .... just because you (highsec parasite) think its true...it isnt...you should talk to the guys building capital fleets or managing huge chains of reaction or jumpbridge pos`s and all them sov crap , or to the guys doing the logistics to supply a 1000 man alliance , to the guys building hundreds and hundreds of ships for replacement programs to get a clue about what industry means in this game

dont delude yourselves into thinking that because you "select all loot", "reprocess , then "right-click-sell the mins in jita"you are an indespensable part of the game economy

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.03.18 01:08:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Stuart Price on 18/03/2010 01:11:33
Move all level 4 agents to lowsec.
Move all level 5 agents to nullsec.
Reduce the amount of asteroids per belt according to sec level with virtually bugger all rocks in the highest sec systems.
Reduce the amount of actual highsec by, well, a lot. By so much that each empire is an island of highsec surrounded by a big nasty moat of lowsec.

Now, pilots of New Eden, choose between making not very much isk at all in almost absolute safety (barring awesome suicide ganks) OR making a decent amount of isk at the risk of being horribly murdered.

If you want to stay in an NPC corp running missions and afk mining, go right ahead. Don't expect to be lavishly rewarded for your solitude and refusal to get involved in what is, after all, an MMO.

"But you scary pirates will camp literally every single gate in lowsec with a million battleships and sensor boosted HIC's" - Yeah, right. Because there are SO many of us.
(1) Man up and get some friends and fight back, you get EVERY advantage between sentries, safe reinforcement routes and horrible broken aggro rules regarding remote repping. Gatecamps deserve their easy kills via the simple reason: they bothered.
(2) More lowsec means more gates means more routes means less bottlenecks means less chance of actually finding a monster camp-blob unless of course you're stupid enough to slavishly follow the shortest autopilot route between popular systems in which case you're a douche and get what you deserve.
(3) On a related note you only think 'everywhere' is camped because of the above. If the only lowsec systems you ever tried to visit were Rancer, Amamake, Tama et al, then of course you got camped. You're an idiot.

"You tool, reducing carebear income means the price of everything goes up due to reduced supply. You know nothing about economics. Also, more expensive stuff means less pvp as people get more cautious"
(1) The price changes for EVERYONE. Ships stop being 'disposable', t2 becomes special again, faction becomes super rare instead of toys for everyone. I am FAR from rich (I basically subsist through 'liberated' modules) and more expensive ships would not bother me. You can perform well without t2 or faction in any case. It doesn't automatically follow that 'more expensive ship = instant win' (except the Dramiel :p).
(2) People who don't want to pvp already don't, which is why I advocate basically forcing them to be at risk of it if they want isk. They can hide if they want, but they'll be even poorer.
(3) Corps and alliances specialising in production will get to set their own agenda more than at present since the casual industrialists won't be able to operate at quite so much profit any more.
(4) Hell, it would integrate currently disparate professions. Your miners would mine more in lower sec systems, requiring hauling and industry to be based nearby all needing to be defended. Everyone working together for BIG MONEY instead of a bunch of individuals each getting rich on their own. There's a reason pvp centred corps tend to be good at it (other than practice): they work together.

People won't ever be encouraged out of high-sec, they must be forced. There is no other way.

Also, it's a fallacy to assume that you need skill in pvp to survive in nullsec. You really, really don't. All you need is a basic understanding of how to fit your ship and the ability to do what you're told. That's all.

The real skilled pvp is in solo/small gang skirmishing and FC'ing. As a drone in nullsec you are unlikely to be involved in any of those unless you deliberately choose to get involved (or get horribly murdered by raiders - in which case your intel and defences are insufficient. Because everyone is ratting? Who knows...)

If a side effect of this is that pilots in general get better at pvp then THANK GOD. I'm tired of fighting muppets and megablobs, some real challenge is always welcome but so very rare.

Ok, I'm done.

Ghoest
Posted - 2010.03.18 02:34:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 18/03/2010 02:34:59
Originally by: Nedefeg

See , thing is the guys who do pvp can (and most of the time do) play very well at the other aspects of the game , industry , pve , etc...in fact far far better then the selftitled "professional mission runners"in empire
On the other hand , the mentioned parasites can do nothing except generating some little ammounts of isk solo .







Umm dont do drugs then post.

Yes some of the best all around players are PVPers.

But most 0.0 PVPers in the average alliance pretty much just know how rat/plex, PVP and brag with a high level of competency.


EDIT: and to be honest thats all they need to know.


Hecatonis
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.18 02:51:00 - [15]
 

i like threads like this. it starts out a guy trying to make low/nul sec more profitable/ attractive to empire players

then it slowly or in many cases very quickly turns into people insulting empire players and prazing the uber 1337 PVPers.

hey guys its a sandbox, we play the way we want to play. if you dont like how we play then dont come to highsec

Originally by: random dense PVPer

i dont want to come to highsec its full of carebears and they whine all the time


kinda like how you people whine about the carebears you never see because you never go to highsec?

Originally by: now angry dense PVPer

go to hell carebear, i take internet space ship way too serious to be healthy and you should all be forced to play the game i want you to play because any other way is stupid


yep, that sounds about right. Rolling Eyes


maybe more of us would come to low/nul sec if their was less 12 year olds like you running around trying to get a bigger epeen

Phosphorus Palladium
Posted - 2010.03.18 04:40:00 - [16]
 

Some people in this thread seem to be of the opinion that mission runners in general do not know how to pvp. Since mission running chars are often owned by pvpers this can be a deadly misconception.

Arvano
Posted - 2010.03.18 06:21:00 - [17]
 

Why do they need to do anything about empire? lowsec/nullsec dwellers caused this, people clinging to empire, with the way they conduct themselves in lowsec and nullsec.

For example, I was ratting on my 200k skillpoints alt yesterday in a 0.3 system, minding my own business, not harming anybody. Then came someone in an interceptor in the overview. He locked me and fired, but just as he fired I had already begun to warp.

So, why go to low/null when that's all that happens, all the time? There was no reason to target me, I was not a threat, but alas, he did.

So, that's why people don't go to low/null and cling to highsec, and these lowsec dwellers can't complain, because it's because of them that we do that.

Merasa Tro
Posted - 2010.03.18 09:36:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Arvano
So, that's why people don't go to low/null and cling to highsec, and these lowsec dwellers can't complain, because it's because of them that we do that.


+1 This

If I can remember my highschool history classes right, there was something about Native Americans (I'm from the EU, so hope thats the correct term) and how they 'dealt' with the traders and trappers that came into their lands.

Now they could have killed and looted every single one of them, but then news would get around that its a dangerous place to go, so no more traders and trappers would come in. However if they let them live, take some stuff, send them on their way, the traders/trappers would come back another day... And they can loot them again....And again...And again.

So here's a suggestion, I dont know how you could build it in the game mechanics, but something like the ability to spot on the map the kind of ratio of activity to kills. That means as a 'parasite carebear' I could spot which areas are definatly no-go and which are sufficiently risk/reward. I know about the number of kills in last hour etc.. But its not quite the right info. 1 kill in 1000 in the last hour isnt scary. but 1 in 10 in the last hour is maybe getting too hot.

Gerrei
Posted - 2010.03.18 10:15:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Stuart Price
Rabble rabble I have no idea what I'm talking about.


Specifically

Quote:
People won't ever be encouraged out of high-sec, they must be forced. There is no other way.


I agree, force the playerbase into a playstyle they have no interest in. Tell me genius. What's the difference between EVE with 50 000 subscribers who all live in low sec, and EVE with 300 000 subscribers of whom 50 000 live in low sec?

In before false assumptions of me being a carebear.

MaterialsEngineer Kariya
Caldari
Deformed inc
A.P.O.P.H.I.S
Posted - 2010.03.18 11:12:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I agree that there needs to be more of a draw for mission runners to bother with 0.0, but i think the best way to do that would be to make PvP less pointless. Mission runners are only concerned with profit. They don't care about the agenda of some CEO who never speaks to them.


If the NPC corps were in the area that mission runner is building standings with, especially R+D agents would help.

It also doesn't help that to survive in 0.0 you have to have enough SP to survive anyway. It is not a new player's playground. Those with mains that's played over a year can support themselves and their alts, but those starting new, 0.0 is a goal...like 90 to 180 days later.

Femke Doutz
Posted - 2010.03.18 12:08:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
People won't ever be encouraged out of high-sec, they must be forced. There is no other way.

Looks like a lot of people are already "forced" out of low sec because of the killing without a reason and the big alliances are very efficient at forcing others out of 0.0.

What makes low sec so unattractive is the killing because you can. Shooting other players should always be with a reason, take that reason away and someone can live a happy life there. But you can't takes the reason away because lowsec is inhabited with killing because you can players. They don't kill for profit, they don't kill for territory, they're not really organised so making deals with one corp and you still get shot by someone else because noone can claim the space.
In short: low-sec is broken, not high-sec.

And a lot of people want to get out of empire: just see how many wormholes are occupied.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.03.18 12:28:00 - [22]
 

Quote:

People won't ever be encouraged out of high-sec, they must be forced. There is no other way.



And you REALLY believe they won't just quit and return to WoW and EvE goes back to 30k subs?
Maybe you don't care, but CCP probably likes 270k parasite subs. They still pay good money.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2010.03.18 12:38:00 - [23]
 

Agree with the post above.

Its not hi-sec is broken its a lo-sec and 0.0.

* Lo-sec - wasteland/deathtrap - no reason to go there.
* 0.0 - Cap ships Online ,Blob warfare , NAPTRAINS, Huge alliances sprawling around regions and holding space just becuase they can.

A lot of poeple ARE not interested in those of the above ( i dont blame them )
A lot of poeple also would like to leave hi-sec if there was alternative ( look at the wormholes )

Whats the funniest part. A lot of carebears dont mind having no local in wormholes. In fact they have bigger balls than NULLbears and PVPbears .

Another fact is that if you make 0.0 another hi-sec with infinite resources the EVE economy will just die off, look what dominion did to zydrine and megacyte + insurace fraud.

TO FIX 0.0 YOU NEED TO MAKE IT MORE ACCESABLE. THAT MEANS.

* nerf CAP ships ( upkeep cost or no insurance upon destruction)
* nerf huge alliances sprawling
* nerf NAPTRAINS.

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.



Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.03.18 13:02:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Gerrei
Originally by: Stuart Price
Rabble rabble I have no idea what I'm talking about.


Specifically

Quote:
People won't ever be encouraged out of high-sec, they must be forced. There is no other way.


I agree, force the playerbase into a playstyle they have no interest in. Tell me genius. What's the difference between EVE with 50 000 subscribers who all live in low sec, and EVE with 300 000 subscribers of whom 50 000 live in low sec?

In before false assumptions of me being a carebear.


The difference is that people in highsec are being rewarded for taking no risk. I stand by my opinion and think I am 100% correct. Yes, the playerbase should be forced to play the game CCP want us to play - one based in large part around non-consensual pvp. If you don't think that was one of their biggest intentions then you need to do some research.

Don't use the 'but people will leave the game' argument because it's irrelevant to the point. If you in a job that paid you a cool million every year for moving large boxes from one end of a building to the other, you'd love that job. If they then paid you minimum wage after realising that you aren't exactly justifying your wage, you'd whine.

The fact that you'd whine wouldn't make you right.

As soon as you start balancing things around keeping casual, largely uninterested players happy you compromise on integrity and the game stops being important. It then becomes an exercise in making money which is not the point of a game.

I hear Star Trek Online might cater for your needs if you're interested in floating around doing your own thing without a care for the larger picture.

To answer your question: ALL the difference, as my original post made clear had you bothered to actually understand it which you clearly did not.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.03.18 13:48:00 - [25]
 

Quote:

As soon as you start balancing things around keeping casual, largely uninterested players happy you compromise on integrity and the game stops being important.



Well, apparently CCP disagrees with you, else they'd remove the several monkey tricks / exploits (from logoffski in all flavours to un-probable ships to all sorts of bypassing gates etc) and would "restore" the game to its ancestral origin.

So, you get 70% of the playerbase against you, CCP not supporting you at all because they earn 3 times as much.

What do you do then?

Eve has already been compromised.

Ori Blake
Posted - 2010.03.18 13:50:00 - [26]
 

I don't think the problem is lowsec entirely. The problem is CCP is very poor at designing missioning and mining because they based it on a false assumption: that the core unit of the game would be fairly large corporations.

Missions and mining pin you in place for extended periods of time, and require too much of a defensive footprint to work for the average small corp. They also made missioning and mining ships made out of paper: missioners due to the need for pve builds and aggressing large numbers of weaker enemy ships, mining because I think they expected players to guard them.

The problem is though that the defensive footprint needed is high enough in theory to prevent small corps from leaving hi-sec. If you only have 4 people on at a time, two people in battleships are a serious threat.

I think if you want to get more miners and missioning corps into lowsec, you need to make the missions more agile, or the pve ships more durable. Lowsec is fine for ratting, as the 200k sp player shows unintentionally, because it doesn't pin you in place, and doesn't require vulnerable ships.

Plus, a little easing up of the contempt would be nice. Why would a carebear want to join a lowsec corp when the bears described in less glowing terms than even rmt?

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.03.18 14:11:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 18/03/2010 14:41:41
Originally by: Nedefeg
inflating the alliance size with useless worthless parasites (allso known as empire missioners) is bad... Bringing in parasites will just cut into the income of the allready existing people... The only use I can see for empire parasites in alliances is ...recruit them , have them bring all there crap in 0.0 then kick them , and pod them till they firesell all there junk... See , thing is the guys who do pvp can play... far far better then the selftitled "professional mission runners"in empire... On the other hand , the mentioned parasites can do nothing except generating some little ammounts of isk solo. why would anyone sane want anything to do with them? (except pop them ofcourse ) They are just as productive for an alliance as recruiting rats would be... edit : I know most empire parasites like to delude themselfes... just because you (highsec parasite) think its true... dont delude yourselves
Holy crap! What a rant, dude! ugh. You must seriously hate mission runners to go through the trouble of typing that hateful response. I love self-rightuous PVPers \o/. keep the hate alive Twisted Evil.


Kiri Serrensun
Posted - 2010.03.18 14:37:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Stuart Price
As soon as you start balancing things around keeping casual, largely uninterested players happy you compromise on integrity and the game stops being important. It then becomes an exercise in making money which is not the point of a game.


It is the point of a company, though.

The big problem seems to be that there are two games in EVE, which hardly ever communicate. I agree that everyone should at least try PVP, but there are a lot of things that push people into the zero-risk approach.

1: The weirdness that is mission fitting. You need to fit to take down dozens and dozens of insane suicidal NPC's with completely predictable behaviour and damage output who just flat-out cheat in several areas. Go into PVP with PVE fits and tactics, and you're simply a killmail. Have fewer, smarter NPC's. This also makes missions less dull, and decreases reprocessing mineral floods.

2: Jump clones being seen as mandatory for PVP, and the 8+ standings needed. So by the time you're "ready" for PVP, you're thoroughly into the mission-running mindset.

3: Let's be honest, a lot of the time PVP isn't fun, mostly being on one side of a gank or the other. Most EVE players will talk about the mythical "good fights", but when money, resources and killboard stats are on the line, many people prefer a dull fight they win to a fun one they lose. My first experience of PVP was going into lowsec and getting fragged by a gatecamp. No chance to run away, no chance to fight back, no interaction with other players. Conclusion: I need a lot more money and skillpoints before I go back there, it's scary!

4: As much as CAOD is splattered with the product of whacking off about what different alliances stand for, they're all the same to most of the playerbase. A monolithic no-go area around the edge of the map. The stakes for independently setting up a foothold in 0.0 have only risen with time. Don't even think about it unless you have 24 hour coverage and a dreadnought fleet. And it looks like soon, the last NRDS area in EVE will be gone.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.03.18 14:40:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Arvano

So, that's why people don't go to low/null and cling to highsec, and these lowsec dwellers can't complain, because it's because of them that we do that.
I don't think anyone of the non-hisec persuasion was really complaining about the lack of 200k ratting alts in their space.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.03.18 15:03:00 - [30]
 

Quote:

I don't think anyone of the non-hisec persuasion was really complaining about the lack of 200k ratting alts in their space.



But what if this is what all of the 200k people are good for? You know, the same who yesterday were worthlessy grinding dailies in another MMO today are mining in a badger(!) in hi sec.

They are not a factor anyway. They don't exist. They are just a nice wallet padding for CCP so that they can improve the game with 300k subs worth of income instead of having a slow paced improvement due to the meager 30k "real" subs.

Your problem is NOT hi sec bears.

Your problem is that the generation of "hard and nutty" players is surpassed, is done. I play since the times of MUDs and some of them make EvE look like a carebear game for people without balls in comparison. But this involves being 30-40 old, without a wife breaking the balls because you play EvE instead of some important hat shopping and other factor that make yours (ours) an extinct players generation.
The new ones, a minimal part are still available to play a la old ways, the others are sons of WoW, Second Life and and other mild stuff. Result: CCP had to gulp the bitter reality, swallow pride and downgrade EvE into another theme park.


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