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blankseplocked [Promote PVP]: EVE Gate Killboard
 
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Gaal Lefkin
Posted - 2010.03.17 13:54:00 - [1]
 

About time EVE gets a proper, central and reliable killboard. Eve Gate seems the perfect opportunity to set this up. I'm fine with 3rd parties solutions, but in my reflexion to promote pvp I've come to think about the effects of a killboard inside EVE.

Why would Eve need an official killboard? In my opinion because it's the best way to encourage people to pvp and take care of their k/d ratio number instead of their wallet number. Carebears will always find reasons not to pvp and take risks of losing stuff when in EVE the most important number is clearly the one blinking in your wallet. Make them want to improve an other statistic by promoting it inside the game and EVE Gate.

Why does Eve need more players into pvp?
Good for pvpers: get more targets, 2 hours roams with no one to shoot at discourage to form gangs.
Good for market: pvp is a great ISK sink, EVE needs ISK sinks.
Good for CCP: pvp is fun. Takes more time to get burn out of pvp then missions. People stay longer and CCP is happy. (I over-simplify on purpose for the sake of my point)

So what could get people into pvp? Let's help CCP here guys!
Cheaper ships and mods? Probably would help some to take the step, especially noobs.
PVP Arena? To make 1vs1 easier to get. Why not, doesn't sound very sandboxy though.
Make pvp matter? I heard that a lot: "I don't want to pvp for the heck of it, needs to be for something".

Well with official Eve killboard you pvp to promote yourself/your corp. It's fun and it matters ingame. Why not put a special icon/color/whatever sign next to your name in local to show the world how ubber you are? Promote the ranking in a positive way, not to discourage people afraid to have a bad ranking. Make pilots e-peen so big they wouldn't mind losing a few ISK/ships/mods if there is a reward at the end. And reward is e-fame.

TL;DR: Eve killboard to promote pvpers in New Eden and Eve Gate. Carebears make something of your isks! Put your name at the top of the list!


PS: I suck at pvp, big time, so I post with an alt and don't cover my ELITE pvp corp with shame

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.03.17 14:03:00 - [2]
 

given that CCP deletes most links to killboards on the forums i doubt this will happen.

also gathering intel on fittings and pilot activity should involve some work. if all killmails would automatically be published on some central killboard, that step would become too easy. on top of that many alliances which use automatic killboard feeds obfuscate the location of the kill for the first 1-2hours so people cant track them down so easily. having a central killboard would void that aswell.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.03.17 14:15:00 - [3]
 

By having independent boards you encourage 3rd participation.
By having independent boards CCP doesn't have to expend precious server/bandwidth resources.

There is a whole industry built around killboards and apart for some being unreliable the current system actually works pretty well.

You "burn out" of PvP the second you realise it is all a numbers game .. biggest blob wins. The old-school solo/small-gang action is long dead, as in you have to spend insane amount of time finding it.

CCP tried necromancy on solo/small-gang PvP when they cooked up FW, but when they found their newest baby was lame and colicky they promptly discarded it and left it for dead.
Still the best place for it though, just like null-sec is best for time-for-a-cuppa lag fights.

Devote a ton of resources to improving low-sec as a whole and maybe PvP will be able to beat the blob trend, but without focus/purpose no amount of visible statistics will make anyone not so inclined want to dabble.

Gaal Lefkin
Posted - 2010.03.17 14:19:00 - [4]
 

CCP could block location availability for 1-2 hours too, or even delay the killmail publication to next downtime actually. Any protection would be fine since eventually your stat will get registered and your performance ratio updated.
About the intel gathering tool, Battleclinic and eve-kill gives you pretty much what you need to know in 3 clicks, so no drastic change here either.
And about CCP removing links to killmails, isn't that related to the fact that killboards owners can be traced via WHOIS and hosting infos? Iirc that's why they removed the mails from the titans count following thread... Then Eve Gate killboard would solve that and we could all show off on forums

Cassidy Solo
Posted - 2010.03.17 14:21:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Gaal Lefkin
About time EVE gets a proper, central and reliable killboard. Eve Gate seems the perfect opportunity to set this up. I'm fine with 3rd parties solutions, but in my reflexion to promote pvp I've come to think about the effects of a killboard inside EVE.

Why would Eve need an official killboard? In my opinion because it's the best way to encourage people to pvp and take care of their k/d ratio number instead of their wallet number. Carebears will always find reasons not to pvp and take risks of losing stuff when in EVE the most important number is clearly the one blinking in your wallet. Make them want to improve an other statistic by promoting it inside the game and EVE Gate.

Why does Eve need more players into pvp?
Good for pvpers: get more targets, 2 hours roams with no one to shoot at discourage to form gangs.
Good for market: pvp is a great ISK sink, EVE needs ISK sinks.
Good for CCP: pvp is fun. Takes more time to get burn out of pvp then missions. People stay longer and CCP is happy. (I over-simplify on purpose for the sake of my point)

So what could get people into pvp? Let's help CCP here guys!
Cheaper ships and mods? Probably would help some to take the step, especially noobs.
PVP Arena? To make 1vs1 easier to get. Why not, doesn't sound very sandboxy though.
Make pvp matter? I heard that a lot: "I don't want to pvp for the heck of it, needs to be for something".

Well with official Eve killboard you pvp to promote yourself/your corp. It's fun and it matters ingame. Why not put a special icon/color/whatever sign next to your name in local to show the world how ubber you are? Promote the ranking in a positive way, not to discourage people afraid to have a bad ranking. Make pilots e-peen so big they wouldn't mind losing a few ISK/ships/mods if there is a reward at the end. And reward is e-fame.

TL;DR: Eve killboard to promote pvpers in New Eden and Eve Gate. Carebears make something of your isks! Put your name at the top of the list!


PS: I suck at pvp, big time, so I post with an alt and don't cover my ELITE pvp corp with shame


Umm, you are an idiot.

1.) Not everyone wants to PVP. That is why they don't. Why people continue to try and push people into doing things they obviously don't want to do is beyond me. Where is the mining leaderboard? We want to know who mines the most ore. And how about give us an official wealth leaderboard so I can see who I want to ask for ISK from? What about a leaderboard for how much m3 someone has hauled?

2.) EVE already has ISK sinks. Faction ships, Capitals (How much ISK do you sink on skillbooks?), Faction/Officer modules, POSes, etc, etc.

3.) Over-emphasizing one aspect over another is oppressive and will not make more people want to do it, it just drives off the people who don't. Therefore, it would not be good for CCP.

4.) Just because you are more interested in your wallet than PVP doesn't mean you aren't a good PVPer. On my PVP toon, I have over 98% ISK efficiency, and a 4.xx% chance of enemy survival. However, ready access to all of my KM's would give valuable information to potential targets, and I have no interest in giving away all of my surprises.

5.) This does nothing to address the fact that the vast majority of PVPers get their kills either from "blobbing" which should not be encouraged, or from taking advantage of newer players in high-sec. Neither of those should be encouraged.

6.) If there was a sanctioned PVP area where you could have 1v1 or FvF, I would support a KB for those fights, but overall I don't think it is a good idea for the majority of "PVP" situations.

7.) A lot of cost, maintenance, programming, etc, for exactly what? Nothing that will help EVE players or CCP.

Gaal Lefkin
Posted - 2010.03.17 14:39:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Cassidy Solo

Umm, you are an idiot.

1.) Not everyone wants to PVP. That is why they don't. Why people continue to try and push people into doing things they obviously don't want to do is beyond me. Where is the mining leaderboard? We want to know who mines the most ore. And how about give us an official wealth leaderboard so I can see who I want to ask for ISK from? What about a leaderboard for how much m3 someone has hauled?

2.) EVE already has ISK sinks. Faction ships, Capitals (How much ISK do you sink on skillbooks?), Faction/Officer modules, POSes, etc, etc.

3.) Over-emphasizing one aspect over another is oppressive and will not make more people want to do it, it just drives off the people who don't. Therefore, it would not be good for CCP.

4.) Just because you are more interested in your wallet than PVP doesn't mean you aren't a good PVPer. On my PVP toon, I have over 98% ISK efficiency, and a 4.xx% chance of enemy survival. However, ready access to all of my KM's would give valuable information to potential targets, and I have no interest in giving away all of my surprises.

5.) This does nothing to address the fact that the vast majority of PVPers get their kills either from "blobbing" which should not be encouraged, or from taking advantage of newer players in high-sec. Neither of those should be encouraged.

6.) If there was a sanctioned PVP area where you could have 1v1 or FvF, I would support a KB for those fights, but overall I don't think it is a good idea for the majority of "PVP" situations.

7.) A lot of cost, maintenance, programming, etc, for exactly what? Nothing that will help EVE players or CCP.



1) There is no push, just encouragement. There is no trace of pvp history/performance in a pvp game, time to change that.
2) We need more ships to be blown it's a fact. Too much supply and not enough demand.
3) Emphasing pvp without nerfing other game modes in a pvp game sounds fine to me
4) Your opponents already have these informations if they care to search.
5) Kills in blobs give you a small number of points and hence is not encouraged. And confirming nobody already takes advantage of noobs in high sec...
6) Why limit to those arena then?
7) You can apply your point to the whole concept of Eve Gate then.

Cassidy Solo
Posted - 2010.03.17 15:00:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Cassidy Solo on 17/03/2010 16:57:15
Originally by: Gaal Lefkin
Originally by: Cassidy Solo

Umm, you are an idiot.

1.) Not everyone wants to PVP. That is why they don't. Why people continue to try and push people into doing things they obviously don't want to do is beyond me. Where is the mining leaderboard? We want to know who mines the most ore. And how about give us an official wealth leaderboard so I can see who I want to ask for ISK from? What about a leaderboard for how much m3 someone has hauled?

2.) EVE already has ISK sinks. Faction ships, Capitals (How much ISK do you sink on skillbooks?), Faction/Officer modules, POSes, etc, etc.

3.) Over-emphasizing one aspect over another is oppressive and will not make more people want to do it, it just drives off the people who don't. Therefore, it would not be good for CCP.

4.) Just because you are more interested in your wallet than PVP doesn't mean you aren't a good PVPer. On my PVP toon, I have over 98% ISK efficiency, and a 4.xx% chance of enemy survival. However, ready access to all of my KM's would give valuable information to potential targets, and I have no interest in giving away all of my surprises.

5.) This does nothing to address the fact that the vast majority of PVPers get their kills either from "blobbing" which should not be encouraged, or from taking advantage of newer players in high-sec. Neither of those should be encouraged.

6.) If there was a sanctioned PVP area where you could have 1v1 or FvF, I would support a KB for those fights, but overall I don't think it is a good idea for the majority of "PVP" situations.

7.) A lot of cost, maintenance, programming, etc, for exactly what? Nothing that will help EVE players or CCP.



1) There is no push, just encouragement. There is no trace of pvp history/performance in a pvp game, time to change that.
2) We need more ships to be blown it's a fact. Too much supply and not enough demand.
3) Emphasing pvp without nerfing other game modes in a pvp game sounds fine to me
4) Your opponents already have these informations if they care to search.
5) Kills in blobs give you a small number of points and hence is not encouraged. And confirming nobody already takes advantage of noobs in high sec...
6) Why limit to those arena then?
7) You can apply your point to the whole concept of Eve Gate then.


1.) EVE is not a PVP game. EVE is a sandbox game. You can play the game and never, ever leave a station. There is the ability to PVP, yes. But even that is horribly broken in terms of functionality.
2.) You obviously do not know what a fact is. I'll give you a hint, it is not something that you pull out of your ass to prove your point.
3.) Again, EVE is NOT a PVP game. They would need to make leaderboards for other aspects of the game.
4.) Yes, but why should their job be made easier? In the real world, you want information, it isn't just handed to you. You have to choices. Pay someone else to get the information, or spend your time and effort gathering it. If you are too lazy to gather the intel, then you should not have it.
5.) Killboards are already broken in terms of blobs. With a maximum point value of 750 points for a Raven kill on a certain Killboard, there is a Killmail with 11 attackers getting 375 points each. Half of the maximum points, with 11 people? How is that going to be addressed?
6.) Because the "arena" would be the only place where the fights were fair. Other MMO's have similar instances.
7.) EVE Gate is a tool for players, that has a huge role with today's current technology. You can't play the game on your iPhone or Droid, but you can keep updated about your character and have some base-level interaction. Comparing the overall concept of EVE Gate with a silly KB that you can go to one of three dozen websites and setup is a bit ignorant. If you can't see the value of EVE Gate, then it's your problem and not mine.

Tarhim
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.17 16:00:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Gaal Lefkin
CCP could block location availability for 1-2 hours too, or even delay the killmail publication to next downtime actually.


Why do you need CCP to hold your hand, handle info for you, tell you that you are a good player and your initials belong on high score list?

Whats next, high score table for most veldspar mined in a week? (waves at Chribba)

Killboards as they are now are fine. You can brag about your kills, hide them or fake them. You can use them as propaganda tool and gather intel from them. Nothing that needs to be fixed.

Gaal Lefkin
Posted - 2010.03.17 16:32:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Tarhim

Why do you need CCP to hold your hand, handle info for you, tell you that you are a good player and your initials belong on high score list?


It's in the title, to encourage some people who like competition to go into pvp with a reward recognized in game: a rank. Some other games do that... Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Tarhim

Whats next, high score table for most veldspar mined in a week? (waves at Chribba)


Why would they need to make leaderboards for those aspects? Who cares how many guristas or roids you popped? EVE is a multiplayer game, can we agree on that? How many players you killed and how IS relevant in a multiplayer game.

Tarhim
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.17 17:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Gaal Lefkin



It's in the title, to encourage some people who like competition to go into pvp with a reward recognized in game: a rank. Some other games do that... Rolling Eyes



Some other games have level caps, unique gear available for RL money only, instancing, separate realms... That doesn't mean those things would be good in Eve.

You have quite a few rewards recognized in game - loot, killmail, frozen corpse...

Originally by: Tarhim

Who cares how many guristas or roids you popped?



Who cares how many rifters you ganked?

Some people do their PVP on market, or in Jita local. Hey, lets ask CCP for scamboard!

Quote:
EVE is a multiplayer game, can we agree on that? How many players you killed and how IS relevant in a multiplayer game.


To you. So post your kills on public killboard, compare with each other and have fun. No need for CCP to do it for you.

HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.03.17 18:17:00 - [11]
 

Some alliances choose to keep their killboards private for security reasons, a centralised killtracker would undermine this. It wouldn't 'encourage pvp', people who want to pvp are alredy going out to pvp and even the most dim-witted of pubbie carebears is already aware of the fact that - my goodness - people actually go out and shoot each other sometimes in this game without a central killboard to point this fact out to them.

Aera Aiana
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.17 19:14:00 - [12]
 

The only thing killboards do for me is make me want to avoid PvP even more. It sucks to be on the wrong side of the killmail... Embarassed

There's also a certain mentality in a lot of cultural circles where losing is considered to be an embarrassment (go east...). Increasing the number of witnesses by exposing the loss in a killmail isn't going to make the situation any better.


 

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