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blankseplocked 500 million ISK Investment (Cancelled until further notice)
 
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Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.15 17:27:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Esau Turnet on 16/03/2010 18:59:30
Edited by: Esau Turnet on 15/03/2010 18:24:45
Edited by: Esau Turnet on 15/03/2010 18:12:14
Hi MD

Im looking for an investment of 500 million ISK to help move along the trading of ammo and t2 modules.

This investment involves filling a niche market in low sector space and as i will always use scouts, and am set blue to most of the PvPers in the area the risk of losing the investment in this aspect is very minimal.

The profit margin of this investment is looking at 17% profit every 4 weeks although the profit may be gain quicker if stock sells quicker than anticipated which could mean more profit.

Also this 17% could be changed by 1 or 2% due to market fluctuations in the system where i buy the stock or in the system where i sell the stock.

Currently updated numbers will show that the ammo that will be transported and sold will net 14 million profit per 27 million isk invested.

The T2 modules will net 4.5 million isk profit per 30 million isk invested.

This will give an approximate percentage profit of 27.35% although i have reduced this to 17% due to market fluctuations and that some losses may be incured

Please convo me ingame if you require more information as im willing to help put your mind at ease if it will help this investment go a lot smoother.

Regards
Esau

(Awaiting Audit)

Players Invested
..

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2010.03.15 17:43:00 - [2]
 

first....calling this a scam right out of the box

Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.15 17:46:00 - [3]
 

could you please state why you believe this is a scam as unfounded accusations wont help when im trying to create a legitimate business

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2010.03.15 17:52:00 - [4]
 

Sounds high-risk due to the low-sec transport, but give Esau a chance to prove he's legitimate before you trash his offering [unless you have a reason to call him a scammer?].

Esau, would you be prepared to go through an audit?

Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.15 17:55:00 - [5]
 

not read stuff about auditing as im only just getting into this business stuff although i am willing to show an auditor all of the number crunching i have done as thats all i assume it involves.


Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2010.03.15 17:59:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Esau Turnet
not read stuff about auditing as im only just getting into this business stuff although i am willing to show an auditor all of the number crunching i have done as thats all i assume it involves.




An audit involves handing over your api key so the auditor can check your trade and wallet history to make sure it is consistent with what you say.

You will probably qualify for a free audit [normal cost is 50-100 million] as this is your first offering and we have a program in place to encourage new enterprise which will pay the cost for you.

Tsang Chou
Tsang Chou Bonds
Posted - 2010.03.15 18:12:00 - [7]
 

1) Can you provide 100% collateral?
2) Are you willing to give up your strong API key?

Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.15 18:13:00 - [8]
 

currently looking for an auditor who can verify this investment. Open comms in game if you are able to help me.

Tsang Chou
Tsang Chou Bonds
Posted - 2010.03.15 18:22:00 - [9]
 

After an in-game conversation, TSANG will be unable to lend at this time as the prospect is unable to provide collateral or strong API key information.

Sorry, and good luck.

Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.15 18:44:00 - [10]
 

still awaiting auditor whom i will give my limited api for checking although send me an eve mail at this time as im going for a meal with the missus for a while

Jerni
Posted - 2010.03.15 18:51:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Esau Turnet
still awaiting auditor whom i will give my limited api for checking although send me an eve mail at this time as im going for a meal with the missus for a while


The limited API key isn't enough to verify anything substantial. A real audit with the full key isn't foolproof either, but it's better. I strongly recommend reconsidering a full audit and some kind of collateral.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.03.15 21:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Estel Arador on 15/03/2010 21:43:43
I'd like to point out a few things which would aid you in getting more investors and getting a proper audit done.

First of all, the fact that your offer includes activity in low sec will scare off many investors. There's not much that can be done about that, all you can do is show that you understand the risks involved. That means that you clearly explain the risk and explain how you mitigate that. You mention using scouts, which is good. But what type of ship will you use to transport the goods? For instance using a blockade runner would give potential investors some confidence - of course an audit would have to confirm that you have a blockade runner and can use it properly.
Claiming that "the risk of losing the investment in this aspect is very minimal" does not show a clear understanding of the risks involved. The risk of losing an investment is 'very minimal' if it's run by an established player, in high sec, with full collateral. You're not an established player, in low sec, without collateral. It's a high risk investment.

That brings me to my second point. Providing collateral would be a good idea, as it will help bringing in investors who otherwise might consider the offer to be too high a risk.

Third, try to make some sense of the interest rate; I mean that you should stick to one rate. As it stands you mention "17%" and "17% +/- 1 or 2%", mentioning market fluctuations as a reason for the margin. However you had already accounted for market fluctuations in the reduction from 27.35% to 17%. 17% every four weeks is a good rate considering the risks involved, it might even be a bit on the high side if you manage to come up with some collateral.

Fourth, you're unclear on your current status, and on your prospects. Are you currently trading in these goods on this route? If so, how much have you invested in this? Are the returns you mention theoretical or based on experience? You claim you can get X million profit for Y million invested, how long will it hold up? Will the market support an extra 500M in goods without dropping too low?

Fifth and last, just waiting for an audit won't get you anywhere - you will have to ask someone to do the audit. As the offer currently stands an audit wouldn't add much though. Try to address some (preferably all) of the points I mentioned first. The MD audit fund might cover part or all of the fees involved with an audit, but the offer will have to be improved first.

Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.15 21:58:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
Edited by: Estel Arador on 15/03/2010 21:43:43
You mention using scouts, which is good. But what type of ship will you use to transport the goods? For instance using a blockade runner would give potential investors some confidence - of course an audit would have to confirm that you have a blockade runner and can use it properly.


I will be using a standard hauler but with a fit that will combine the usefulness of WCS's with the usefulness of i-stabs which will allow me to warp as quick as possible. COmbining this with a scout will enable me to ensure the completion of the trip that i undertake at that time.

Quote:
Claiming that "the risk of losing the investment in this aspect is very minimal" does not show a clear understanding of the risks involved. The risk of losing an investment is 'very minimal' if it's run by an established player, in high sec, with full collateral. You're not an established player, in low sec, without collateral. It's a high risk investment.


What i meant when i said that was that the risk of losing items in the delivery of the stock to lowsec was minimal as I will be taking every precaution possible. Although I understand where you are coming from.

Quote:
That brings me to my second point. Providing collateral would be a good idea, as it will help bringing in investors who otherwise might consider the offer to be too high a risk.


Thats one of the issues as I dont have any collateral to provide for this project.

Quote:
Third, try to make some sense of the interest rate; I mean that you should stick to one rate. As it stands you mention "17%" and "17% +/- 1 or 2%", mentioning market fluctuations as a reason for the margin. However you had already accounted for market fluctuations in the reduction from 27.35% to 17%. 17% every four weeks is a good rate considering the risks involved, it might even be a bit on the high side if you manage to come up with some collateral.


The 17% +/- 1 or 2% is for the selling of the items in lowsec and purchasing the items in hisec.Although i reduced it from 27.35% due to these numbers being theoretical so i didnt want to give high numbers and disappoint because i got the theory wrong. so the profit margin could be anywhere between 15% and 27.35%.

Quote:
Fourth, you're unclear on your current status, and on your prospects. Are you currently trading in these goods on this route? If so, how much have you invested in this? Are the returns you mention theoretical or based on experience?


I have currently not started trading on this route as I have 10 mill to put into this venture and was wanting to wait until i have a full load to make the trip worthwhile. The returns are based upon theory (see above).

Quote:
You claim you can get X million profit for Y million invested, how long will it hold up? Will the market support an extra 500M in goods without dropping too low?


I have 4 systems to invest this project in so I will be spreading the investment from one place to the next once the system becomes flooded and starts losing profit i move onto the next system and so on.

Quote:
Fifth and last, just waiting for an audit won't get you anywhere - you will have to ask someone to do the audit. As the offer currently stands an audit wouldn't add much though. Try to address some (preferably all) of the points I mentioned first. The MD audit fund might cover part or all of the fees involved with an audit, but the offer will have to be improved first.


Thanks for the tips. They are really appreciated.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.03.15 22:50:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Estel Arador on 16/03/2010 00:52:45
Having no history at all is a problem. How do we know you're capable of doing what you're claiming you want to do? And how do we know you will stick with it for any period of time? You've been in eleven different corps (one twice), never for more than a couple of weeks. The most positive interpretation of that would be that you're looking for something fun to do but haven't found it yet in any of those corps. The more negative interpretation would be that you're doing things that those corps don't like. If I would take that one step further, I might think that you're intentionally corphopping to defraud or scam corps.

Could you explain why you left the corporations?
Why have you been in missionrunning corps but have run only a few missions?
Why does a player your age only have 10M for such an investment?


Edit: I spoke to someone in one of Esau Turnet's former corps. I would advise against investing in this offer, even if the offer is improved.

Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.16 09:13:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
Edited by: Estel Arador on 16/03/2010 00:52:45
Having no history at all is a problem. How do we know you're capable of doing what you're claiming you want to do? And how do we know you will stick with it for any period of time? You've been in eleven different corps (one twice), never for more than a couple of weeks. The most positive interpretation of that would be that you're looking for something fun to do but haven't found it yet in any of those corps. The more negative interpretation would be that you're doing things that those corps don't like. If I would take that one step further, I might think that you're intentionally corphopping to defraud or scam corps.

Could you explain why you left the corporations?
Why have you been in missionrunning corps but have run only a few missions?
Why does a player your age only have 10M for such an investment?


Edit: I spoke to someone in one of Esau Turnet's former corps. I would advise against investing in this offer, even if the offer is improved.


I left corporations as i went through the motions of being recruited then found I was the only person online at any time so left and that was with most corps. 1 corp i was in split off into seperate corps and none of them would accept me due to low SP.

I find that mission running solo gets very boring very quickly.

I only have 10M for such an investment as I have been struggeling to make ISK lately. (missions and mining are repetetive).

Could you please state which corp you talked to as i left on good terms with every corp i was in?

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.03.16 09:34:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Esau Turnet
I find that mission running solo gets very boring very quickly.

You can't have run more than a handful of missions. If you get bored that quickly, you'll probably get bored trading too.

Originally by: Esau Turnet
I only have 10M for such an investment as I have been struggeling to make ISK lately.

I guess struggling to get 10M isk together makes you the perfect guy for managing 500M?

Originally by: Esau Turnet
Could you please state which corp you talked to as i left on good terms with every corp i was in?

That's not the same information as I received, sorry.

Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.16 10:35:00 - [17]
 

which corp did you talk to?

But you are welcome to your opinion about my skill level in managing 500 mill.

DR Zenbobo
Posted - 2010.03.16 14:41:00 - [18]
 

A loan of only 500 Mil ISK to a trader often doesn't need any collateral. I would give 500 Million ISK to a trader without collateral based on the criteria below.

*An audit is completed.
*The pilot/audit has a verifiable history in trade showing profits claimed in the post.
*The pilot/audit can show a verifiable means to repay the loan as covered in the contract.
*The pilot has a clean forum history and is not known as a scammer, is not known to consort with scammers or belong to a corp with other scammers.
*Provide a minimum of 10% monthly interest.
*The pilot is not a throw away alt.(this is a big one)

Scammers typically use posting alts or throwaway alts to scam with; in order to not sully the reputation of their main pilot. (see Riethe, Snapshot and countless others)

Depending on the size of the loan the pilot/audit should be able to show at least 3 months of continuous training in order to verify that the pilot is not a throwaway.(6 months on a 500 Mil ISK loan) If you are working 6 Months on a throwaway alt just to scam 500Mil, go do some mining because you just made less than 100mil a month and YOU FAIL.

Realizing that the pilot will be labeled a SCAMMER and be useless I feel it is unlikely that they would train for six months or more just to scam a paltry sum.

I feel that a trader meeting the above criteria is very unlikely to scam. Defaulting on a loan is always a possibility
this doesn't mean the debt has disappeared it still exists and a malicious failure to repay a loan should be considered a scam.




Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.16 18:59:00 - [19]
 

cancelling this bond until further notice due to 2 reasons:

--- My sub will run out in a couple of days and I dont get paid till the end of the month.

--- I want to dedicate more time to trading in a hub and gain some reputation as a trader that way.

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2010.03.16 19:37:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Esau Turnet
cancelling this bond until further notice due to 2 reasons:

--- My sub will run out in a couple of days and I dont get paid till the end of the month.




You didn't mention this in your offering! I also advised you in-game to post up that this is your alt - apologies if I missed it, but you don't appear to have done so.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.03.16 19:39:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Esau Turnet
--- My sub will run out in a couple of days and I dont get paid till the end of the month.


If only you had some isk to buy a PLEX!

nether void
Caldari
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.03.16 19:51:00 - [22]
 

Not saying I have any evidence of such, but looking for 500m near when the account will be deactivated because the player can't pay the subscription does kind of point to scam, even if it might not be. 500m + 10m will currently buy a 60 day time card, IIRC.

Again I have no evidence. I'm just an analyst making an observation.

Esau Turnet
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.16 20:06:00 - [23]
 

plus if it was a scam why would i be saying dont send me any isk until further notice as my account is getting deactivated.

But I will keep an eye out in MD too see if there is anything nice to invest in when i get back after making some cash.

Already made 4 mill in an hour from trading :)


 

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