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Savatar Mei
Posted - 2010.03.04 20:33:00 - [1]
 

some of the missile params are plain old naff.

explosion velocities of 20m/sec, ????

as i understand it this was nerfed becauase of the 'always hit' nature of misiles, now we have the larger ships simply never able to take out smaller ships.
rebuff the misile stats and introduce a new parameter 'activation range', whereby when inside a certain range ur missile will hit, but not xplode delivering its payload.

mchief117
Posted - 2010.03.04 21:46:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Savatar Mei
some of the missile params are plain old naff.

explosion velocities of 20m/sec, ????

as i understand it this was nerfed becauase of the 'always hit' nature of misiles, now we have the larger ships simply never able to take out smaller ships.
rebuff the misile stats and introduce a new parameter 'activation range', whereby when inside a certain range ur missile will hit, but not xplode delivering its payload.


ok correct me if im wrong but this is how your post translated

you want to have missile explosion velocity increased but have it so that a missile will detonate with in a certain proximity to a ship rather than auto hitting it. meaning that small ships would have to be fast to stay alive but ships using bigger missilws are know able to actualy inflict damage to smaller ships like they should be doing all along.

by doing so both the direction and speed of the target ship would apply in fleet warfare as a frig flying towards a income cruse missile would take a large hit, while a frig flying away might not get hit at all.

I like this idea as it would force the use of tactics for fleet fights

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.03.04 21:48:00 - [3]
 

given that the missile speed of most missiles is still big enough to outrun every ship (8-11k/s easily), your idea wouldnt work.

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2010.03.04 22:49:00 - [4]
 

I'd at least like to see a boost to light missiles and rockets in this regard. It seems ridiculous that a precision light missile has an explosion velocity lower than the base speed of many T1 frigates (170m/s compared to a Kestrel's base speed of 253), and once an afterburner or MWD get into the picture, these weapons that are good for so little else begin to fall very flat indeed. Rockets are even worse, bizarrely, starting at a measly 85m/s. Skills and rigs can help with this, but you'll never get a light missile to explode fast enough to do even half damage to a frig with a MWD, despite the fact that the missile is going plenty fast enough to catch them and the target's sig is many times the explosion radius. Unable to outrun the missile, too obvious to fool its proximity detection, the frigate simply waits for the missile to explode against its hull, and then outruns the fireball? Really?

I'd like to see the explosion velocity stat removed entirely, and just math it out compared to the missile's top speed, so you can still hustle to mitigate damage, but it's more to do with avoiding the missile than somehow side-stepping the shockwave after it detonates. It would lend a lot of value to assault launchers as a way to swat tacklers and would help to give missiles a role that compensates for their generally poor damage output in same-class confrontations.

Misanthra
Posted - 2010.03.05 03:23:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Misanthra on 05/03/2010 03:24:07
Originally by: Savatar Mei
some of the missile params are plain old naff.

as i understand it this was nerfed becauase of the 'always hit' nature of misiles, now we have the larger ships simply never able to take out smaller ships.


drones....



Its a fair nerf actually (and I run caldari).

Its a fair tradeoff the larger dps stuff like cruise and torps are pointless. Other systems have problems with small targets on large weapons as well, missiles jsut gets an added sting. Better than chasing down optimals in my opinion.

In game fix is to train up drones. personally in my ratting raven I run a mix of mediums and lights. Mediums do decent, run the lights for the fast movers. Or kill at max range when an npc wil fly straight line and take a harder hit. Numbers and moods determine that to be honest. Most times I just hit the big ships with cruises and let the light/med drones got to town on the frigs and cruisers.






Xing Fey
Posted - 2010.03.05 05:16:00 - [6]
 

Guns can't hist undersize ships at all. At least missiles can do a smattering of damage.

And you also want to take away the big range-flexibility advantage of missles? madness!

Savatar Mei
Posted - 2010.03.05 12:31:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Savatar Mei on 05/03/2010 12:34:52
large guns can 1 shot small ships at the appropriate sniping range.
a large missile ship cannot do that at all...the idea was to rebuff missiles and allow them to do similar dps but to change the 'always hit' away from 'always damage' in that it cannot dmg the smaller ship if the torp isnt activated.

Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
I'd at least like to see a boost to light missiles and rockets in this regard. It seems ridiculous that a precision light missile has an explosion velocity lower than the base speed of many T1 frigates (170m/s compared to a Kestrel's base speed of 253), and once an afterburner or MWD get into the picture, these weapons that are good for so little else begin to fall very flat indeed. Rockets are even worse, bizarrely, starting at a measly 85m/s. Skills and rigs can help with this, but you'll never get a light missile to explode fast enough to do even half damage to a frig with a MWD, despite the fact that the missile is going plenty fast enough to catch them and the target's sig is many times the explosion radius. Unable to outrun the missile, too obvious to fool its proximity detection, the frigate simply waits for the missile to explode against its hull, and then outruns the fireball? Really?

I'd like to see the explosion velocity stat removed entirely, and just math it out compared to the missile's top speed, so you can still hustle to mitigate damage, but it's more to do with avoiding the missile than somehow side-stepping the shockwave after it detonates. It would lend a lot of value to assault launchers as a way to swat tacklers and would help to give missiles a role that compensates for their generally poor damage output in same-class confrontations.


i think the problem here is the whole explosion thing... missile dmg is always in the form of an explosive blast...but then thats transfered to thermal, em, exp or kin... the whole missile equations dont make sense...

EM and Thermal shouldnt have a blast wave
Kinetic should be just that, not a blast wave, its projectile.
explosive should be errr, just that

Istvann
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.03.05 13:39:00 - [8]
 

I disagree Xing. I snipe frigs all the time in my BS. I start shooting at them at around 90km up to about 45km as long as my transversal is still in the double digits. Once they reach the 45km mark, the drones takes over.


 

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