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blankseplocked AML Navy Caracal for frig swatting
 
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arbalesttom
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.03 00:49:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: arbalesttom on 03/03/2010 02:38:14
I know how good caracals are for taking out frigate sized hulls, and i found out that i had a spare caracal navy issue laying around so i'd figured i'd give it a shot:

[Caracal Navy Issue, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x3

I kind of compared this fit against a similar fit cerb, but as far as i can see cerb scores worse in petty much every field, though it has a extra high wich could be used for a neut, but thats really everything compared to the CNI's better speed, similar ehp, and CNI's dronebay.

Especially on the rigs/mids im not sure. Would it be wise to look into a painter instead of the webifier? Should i look into using different rigs (missile velocity/flare/rigor? was temped to get some polycarbons in initially, the more because ill run this ship with probably a claymore in the fleet).

And no i wont sell it and buy 10 similar fit standard caracals Very Happy

Constructive critisism welcome!

Tony Sharp
Posted - 2010.03.03 03:48:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Tony Sharp on 03/03/2010 03:53:01
I use an almost identical look with two exceptions:

1. I have an InvII instead of web. This is because I have found that most frigs are dead of dying before they even get to web range. I mostly fly solo though in low sec and since blobbing is the name of the game here as well, a frig or two almost always have a friend or ten next door. So that extra tank has saved my bacon more times than I can count (I once finished a fight at 23% structure.)

2. Navy Caracal already is very agile (almost as a frig) and faster than almost all cruiser fits(bar the vaga/stabber), so I have a named DCU/PDU(cpu issues) instead of the nano. It is not to help with grid but just test it and see how much ehp and passive regen you gain :). Plus few more seconds of MWD and disruptor running have made the differrence when some overtanked frigs try to bail out.

I have engaged various t1 cruisers as well and none have escaped.

An other thing to consider is a 3% cpu implant and fit meta 4 shield extenders as this will allow you to fit a 3rd BCU. And maybe ecm drones for solo work.

Edit: small corrections on fittings

Flitterby
Posted - 2010.03.03 04:21:00 - [3]
 

Why disruptor instead of scram?

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.03.03 08:43:00 - [4]
 

FN web is really worth it on this ship. Hell, dropping a LSE for dual FN web will utterly ruin any frigate within 18 km of you.

Flitterby
Posted - 2010.03.03 16:57:00 - [5]
 

How much are FN webs usually?

I bought a CNC and will be trying the following:

[Caracal Navy Issue, aml]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Stasis Webifier II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large Shield Extender II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

I feel like the extra BCU is worth sacrificing some tank. How necessary is the webber in your experience? I guess without it there's no way to keep frigs from getting out of jam range right?

arbalesttom
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.03 17:12:00 - [6]
 

Thanks for the replies sofar!

Originally by: Flitterby
Why disruptor instead of scram?


Im still not sure on this, but i guess i like the 28km overloaded range and the fact that it keeps opponents able to use their mwd so i can make sure ill project full dps on them.

Obviously this would work better with dual FN(or even TS?) web like Gypsio stated. Though do you think though that it is worth dropping alot of EHP for just another webifier? Wont one cut it in some cases (like claymore+any inty/dramiel im fighting)?

Thanks!


Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2010.03.03 17:18:00 - [7]
 

Double faction web would be nice, but it adds like 120m to the cost of the ship. And its still only cruiser...

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.03.03 18:00:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: arbalesttom
Thanks for the replies sofar!

Originally by: Flitterby
Why disruptor instead of scram?


Im still not sure on this, but i guess i like the 28km overloaded range and the fact that it keeps opponents able to use their mwd so i can make sure ill project full dps on them.

Obviously this would work better with dual FN(or even TS?) web like Gypsio stated. Though do you think though that it is worth dropping alot of EHP for just another webifier? Wont one cut it in some cases (like claymore+any inty/dramiel im fighting)?


The EHP vs. speed of frig killing is an interesting one. Yes, a single web will cut it. The question is - what is best use of the last midslot? When I last flew a Navycal, I had a single FN web (~50 mill), with a LSE and Inv. I found that the extra tank basically wasn't necessary for fighting frigates, but when I jumped into a Lachesis/Arazu gatecamp it didn't help me either.

With dual web, you'll be able to deal full damage to any ABing frigate (probable Dramiel exception) as well as greatly hinder their escape from tackle. And it does significantly increase DPS applied to them as well. However, that Navycal was being used in a specific fashion - soloing against largish FW gangs and I felt that I needed to be able to drop a tackler ASAP. Your usage may well be different.

Did you say whether this was for gang or solo? Oh you said a Claymore in fleet. Hmmm, a good gang fit would be different to a solo fit. For a gang fit, the frigates won't always be charging into your web range, and you'll have the opportunity to sit at range yourself. In that case, painters are more flexible than webs... but a web is so much more effective when a frigate does come within web range. If you want to charge straight in, use the web. If you want to, and expect to be able to, keep at range (probably more sensible), fit a web. If you're brave, fit both.

Erm, that's a lot of blather by me for little good advice except for the fairly obvious "fit for the range you want to engage at". Sorry. Razz Bleh, in gang I'd advise painter more than web. Remember the Crash booster.

Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Posted - 2010.03.03 18:24:00 - [9]
 

I would drop the web for a painter; a painter is still useful against a close-range AB frigate (albeit not as useful as a web) but it's also useful against MWD frigates who try to maintain range and can't be webbed. I would drop one extender for an Invul; although you've got decent base HP overall, you still have zero EM shield resists which is bad if you come across anything Amarr. As for the rigs, it's a tossup: if you're comfortable running with less tank on a faction cruiser, go with the missile rigs, if not, keep the shield rigs.

Enjoy.

Flitterby
Posted - 2010.03.03 18:40:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Flitterby on 03/03/2010 18:40:51
How useful is the point? It seems to me (intuition, not experience) that a frig will be able to escape from point range whenever they want to unless I manage to web them, so the point won't help without a web. But webs mean I have to get in close, which won't always be possible. So... is a point without a web worthwhile?

Maybe this TP setup would be better... lots of tank, and no point or webber.

[Caracal Navy Issue, aml]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter
Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large Shield Extender II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Warrior II x3

Effective HP: 42,335
Tank Ability: 59.84 DPS
Damage Profile - <Omni-Damage> (EM: 25.00%, Ex: 25.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 25.00%)
Shield Resists - EM: 38.75%, Ex: 69.38%, Ki: 63.25%, Th: 51.00%
Armor Resists - EM: 57.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 53.25%

Capacitor: Lasts 1m 20s

Volley Damage: 974.94
DPS: 167.71


It just feels somehow *wrong* to not fit a point for pvp. Confused

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.03.03 18:51:00 - [11]
 

Looks solid for what you want to do, but so far everyone have missed the most important part:
No frigate, barring the occasional drunk pilot, will die to it.

The Assault Caracal (and Navy version) have been raping and pillaging since QR was released. If there is any frigate pilots that are still unaware of this, then they are few and far between. Smile

You will quite simply not have enough targets, thus using the excellent FN web(s) might make frigging easier it will do nothing against the cruisers that will be hunting you in turn - so keep the oversize buffer, it will do more good (invuln optional).

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.03.03 19:11:00 - [12]
 

From, experience, the point makes a difference - you do still kill without it, but less stuff.
A frigate can leave 28km quite quick, but ... you're firing ~1000 damage volleys every 4s, so you'll get 1, maybe 2 more in, and maybe even another one as he hits warp, aligns and slows down.

So yeah, I'd go with point first.

My Naracal fit is a bit like the OP.
I've dropped the web for a painter - because painters work at longer ranges - and the nanofiber + DC for a named damage control and extra BCS.

I use mine in a gang to clear the field of lights, and it works very nicely - damage projection at 60km is the key, and you live longer by ensuring you use your range.

The problem - IMO - with web/scram is they rely on your target coming to you.

arbalesttom
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.03 19:16:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: arbalesttom on 03/03/2010 19:18:41
So from what ive read either changing out to 1-2 FN Webs (more for 'solo') or 1-2 painters (for gangs) will be a smart choice? I kind of lean towards the webifiers either way because of the range control it adds as well.

As far as the rigs go...what would be the right missile rigs for this boat? Rigor or Flare to increase hit quality?

Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Posted - 2010.03.03 19:33:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: arbalesttom

As far as the rigs go...what would be the right missile rigs for this boat? Rigor or Flare to increase hit quality?


I'd go one each explosion velocity and explosion radius rig (I can never remember their names) and the last one is up in the air; either a second of the ones I listed, a missile velocity rig, or an extender rig. You'll get some hit quality improvement and then either some extra range, extra buffer, or even more improvement.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.03.03 22:02:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Gypsio III on 03/03/2010 22:05:15

For guided missiles, Rigours are always better than Flares, and multiple Rigours have no stacking penalty. Other rigs to consider are missile velocity rigs to increase the radius of your frigate no-fly zone, and tank and mobility rigs.

Originally by: Hirana
Looks solid for what you want to do, but so far everyone have missed the most important part: The Assault Caracal (and Navy version) have been raping and pillaging since QR was released. If there is any frigate pilots that are still unaware of this, then they are few and far between.


An element of truth here, unfortunately. The glory days of the AMLacal are in the past...

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.03.03 23:28:00 - [16]
 

Well, it's true. Frigate pilots are getting used to the idea that Caracals are a major threat.

But that doesn't really diminish that they _are_ a thread - sure you don't net as many turkey shoots, but you're still very efficiently clearing the field of lights.


 

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