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blankseplocked Let players control Skillbook market
 
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P3rv3rt
Posted - 2010.02.26 17:54:00 - [1]
 

Presently, most mission-runners get a ton of LP that they struggle to convert into decent isk. Although lvl4s also supplement reward with loot drops and bounties, in lvl5s its mostly LP. The price of LP has been steadily declining, depending on faction and the trend will continue. Most LP is converted into either faction navy ships or skillbooks; so yes your CNRs, NavyMegas etc. Skillbooks, specifically, the drone and gun skillbooks are now the primary LP-to-ISK coversion media. Look around the market and you'll see an overabundance of drone skillbooks of each race.

Finally the suggestion:
1) Let the players also buy other skillbooks with LP. The change can be gradual, maybe starting with ships but eventually opening up all the skills in game. This of course will mean nothing if NPC sells them dirt cheap, so those sell orders will either need to be raised or removed to allow players to compete.
2) Add a quantity buy field in LP store, clicking accept 300 times to get 150 skillbooks is rather lame.

Benefits: more player-driven market, more supply, more fun making isk, can allow you to remove loot from LVL4s as LP will become more valuable

Concerns:
- skillbook player supply will not be instatenous so gradual implementation of this should be considered
- isk sink removed? I know for some reason people care about this. I disagree this being an effective isk sink to begin with. PVP is more than enough to burn isk

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.02.26 18:33:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: P3rv3rt
isk sink removed? I know for some reason people care about this. I disagree this being an effective isk sink to begin with. PVP is more than enough to burn isk

You fail at understanding what an ISK sink is!

Skill books are an ISK sink because the ISK paid for them is removed from the game.
PvP is actually an ISK faucet as there's no money removed from the game at all, but large quantities injected into the game through insurance.

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2010.02.26 18:38:00 - [3]
 

Plus this is heavily biased towards those who earn LP points, namely mission runners.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.02.26 18:49:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 26/02/2010 18:49:49
Given that OP clearly doesn't know what an ISK sink actually is, he's not really qualified to make a suggestion that would remove a very important one from the game.

Quote:
Plus this is heavily biased towards those who earn LP points, namely mission runners.


And this. Missionrunning doesn't need more incentives.

P3rv3rt
Posted - 2010.02.26 19:02:00 - [5]
 

If you run up the stats on your toons you will realize that your skillbooks are worth 2-5bil, maybe 10 if you got the titan one. Then go to battleclinic to check your loss stats on your ships. PVP is not an isk sink? Are you nuts? Yes,the money gets transferred to T1 producers but even they eventually spend it and lose it via pvp. There is no insurance for T2, T3 and people rarely insure T1s anyways. How about mods, how can you ensure those?

CCP created LP as a form of player reward that reward is currently getting channeled into insance amounts of the same skillbooks, I'm recommending diversifying that field. For all I care I'd rather not have LP at all but straight up ISK as reward for missions but I bet you would also object to having missions whatsoever.

One way or another people have to make isk, creating competition and removing NPC barriers is a good way for creative players to expand their reach.

Marchocias
Posted - 2010.02.26 19:05:00 - [6]
 

This would tie in quite well to an idea that I had:

Basically, the introduction of a set of Teaching skills. Then, either in addition to or possibly as an alternative to training time, you can create skillbooks. The speed and quantity created would be increased with the teaching skills and affected by the relevant attributes for the skill (and charisma). The base speed of creation would be determined by the square of the skill multiplier, perhaps.

Skillbooks would then have to become more expensive on the LP market, to encourage players to get involved

This way, you get a mechanic where the older players have a good financial incentive to sacrifice some of their training time to pass on knowledge to new players, who also have time to catch up to some extent. Some older players may well not really care about training characters of upwards of 50m points, and might want the cash instead.

Obviously, a large number of core skills would need to be seeded... skills for t1 frigs/cruisers/bs & their weapon systems... industry skills etc. But all the specialist cool stuff could have to be passed on by the experts!

Just an idea... and potentially game breaking, but maybe fun!

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.02.26 19:12:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 26/02/2010 19:24:22

Quote:
If you run up the stats on your toons you will realize that your skillbooks are worth 2-5bil, maybe 10 if you got the titan one. Then go to battleclinic to check your loss stats on your ships. PVP is not an isk sink? Are you nuts? Yes,the money gets transferred to T1 producers but even they eventually spend it and lose it via pvp. There is no insurance for T2, T3 and people rarely insure T1s anyways. How about mods, how can you ensure those?

Everyone insures T1 unless they forget, and smart people insure T2.

NO ISK IS LOST from the economy when a ship explodes. When a ship explodes, minerals are lost. The ISK that paid for the ship never disappeared, it was just transferred to the guy who built it. Insurance brings new ISK into the economy. PVP is actually a massive ISK faucet.

Quote:
Yes,the money gets transferred to T1 producers but even they eventually spend it and lose it via pvp.


...What? Not all manufacturers PVP, and even if they did, that just sends the money to OTHER manufacturers. At no point does ISK get removed from the game. In fact, if they use the money to PVP ,then they inject new ISK into the system by insurance.

Marchocias
Posted - 2010.02.26 19:13:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Marchocias on 26/02/2010 19:14:18
Originally by: P3rv3rt
If you run up the stats on your toons you will realize that your skillbooks are worth 2-5bil, maybe 10 if you got the titan one. Then go to battleclinic to check your loss stats on your ships. PVP is not an isk sink? Are you nuts? Yes,the money gets transferred to T1 producers but even they eventually spend it and lose it via pvp. There is no insurance for T2, T3 and people rarely insure T1s anyways. How about mods, how can you ensure those?


Dude I dont wanna knock your idea, but I must interject about sinks/faucets.

An isk sink is only an action that causes isk to be removed from the game world ENTIRELY... if it just gets moved to another part of the world it isn't a sink. PvP is not a sink as the only thing that happens to isk is payout of insurance (which creates isk magically, so its a faucet), and bounty payout (which moves isk from one player to another, so its neither).

Its not about an individuals wallet account, its about all accounts in the game. If their sum goes up, its a faucet, if it goes down its a sink, if it stays level, its neither.

sg3s
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.02.26 20:27:00 - [9]
 

Bad idea.

The isk sink part has been handled, though, there is one thing you guys seem to forget...

If you place the production and marketing of skillbooks into player hands, it will become possible to boost up prizes, possibly making very basic skills an expensive commodity... This goes against new player experience, I shouldn't have to explain this any further. Rolling Eyes

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.02.26 20:31:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 26/02/2010 20:31:50
Originally by: sg3s
Bad idea.

The isk sink part has been handled, though, there is one thing you guys seem to forget...

If you place the production and marketing of skillbooks into player hands, it will become possible to boost up prizes, possibly making very basic skills an expensive commodity... This goes against new player experience, I shouldn't have to explain this any further. Rolling Eyes


Confirmed. you can see how this happened in the market already. Basic t1 modules like DCIs cost hundreds of thousands of ISK each, crippling new players without the money for t2 or meta.

Wait. No they don't..

P3rv3rt
Posted - 2010.02.26 21:04:00 - [11]
 

Maybe if I make an example this will be easier to conceptualize...

Gallente Drone Skillbook
LP Store cost: 3000 lp
NPC Store cost: 8.1mil
Player market price. buy 1.9mil/sell ~3mil

So in affect player competition improves "new player" experience as skillbooks are more abundant and cost less. while allowing mission-runners to unload craptonne of useless LP

However, other skillbooks are not as viable for trading as NPC sell orders are too low or if you look at it the other way around LP cost is too high.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.02.26 21:32:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: P3rv3rt
Maybe if I make an example this will be easier to conceptualize...

Gallente Drone Skillbook
LP Store cost: 3000 lp
NPC Store cost: 8.1mil
Player market price. buy 1.9mil/sell ~3mil

So in affect player competition improves "new player" experience as skillbooks are more abundant and cost less. while allowing mission-runners to unload craptonne of useless LP

However, other skillbooks are not as viable for trading as NPC sell orders are too low or if you look at it the other way around LP cost is too high.


Except it still gives an undeserved boost to missionrunning and it still removes an important ISK sink from the EVE economy.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2010.02.26 23:30:00 - [13]
 

There is a solution to it removing an isk sink, make them require isk in addition to LP to get just like practically everything else in the LP store. So with that minor modification I think it's a good idea and support it.

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2010.02.27 00:13:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
There is a solution to it removing an isk sink, make them require isk in addition to LP to get just like practically everything else in the LP store. So with that minor modification I think it's a good idea and support it.


Thing is it would probably make LP store items quite expensive to cover the isk sink skillbooks are currently, everybody in EVE buys skillbooks, not everybody runs missions and buys LP store items. If this was put in place then we'd have whines about LP's being massively devalued and cries for the numbers of LP's per mission to be increased.


 

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