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blankseplocked [Proposal] Save & Reuse Probe Bubble Patterns
 
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HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.02.26 16:34:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
I'd kinda like to see this for all probes, mainly because attempting to move objects in 3d space using a 2d interface is all kinds of terrible.

But the point that it might make probing ships too easy does need to be considered...


As people have said over and over, frustrating the player with a flawed mechanic system isn't a clever method of applying game balance. The ease or difficulty of probing is something that should be determined by character and player skills, not by having to fight against your mouse to manhandle probes around in a horrible clunky interface.

Charney deGeoff
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.26 17:14:00 - [32]
 

Don't know if this would be possible to implement, but it would be really great to have!

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.02.26 17:15:00 - [33]
 

this would save me so much work. Ofcourse, it would make macro-exploration easier too...

still support

Beowolf Schaefer
Gallente
Tri-gun
Auctorita Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.26 21:02:00 - [34]
 

I'm in.

Nix Anteris
Bite me inc.
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2010.02.26 22:03:00 - [35]
 

Wow, I came here to look for something unrelated, and found something I was talking about just the other day. I also use several different probe arrangements depending on the size of the system, number of sigs, strength of sigs etc, and would love to be able to switch between them more easily.

I also agree with limiting it to core probes. Part of being a good combat scanner is being able to operate quickly and minimise the duration your probes are visible for, having quick "patterns" to automatically arrange your probes will put your victims at a distinct disadvantage.

Luniticus TheSane
Posted - 2010.02.27 00:16:00 - [36]
 

I'd say to also allow combat probes to be saved this way, but if there is a game balance concern, just increase the time it takes for the probes to conduct the scan.

Nix Anteris
Bite me inc.
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2010.02.27 12:07:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Luniticus TheSane
but if there is a game balance concern, just increase the time it takes for the probes to conduct the scan.
But that means the guys who are actually good at combat scanning, and do minimise their probe visibility, are taking a negative hit just so all the newbie ones don't have to arrange their probes.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2010.02.28 02:56:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Nix Anteris
But that means the guys who are actually good at combat scanning, and do minimise their probe visibility, are taking a negative hit just so all the newbie ones don't have to arrange their probes.



Same argument was stated in defence of the old *horrible* probe system.

Being a master of poor UI doesn't make good UI a bad thing.

Nix Anteris
Bite me inc.
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2010.02.28 11:50:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Nix Anteris on 28/02/2010 11:50:18
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Good flexible UI design has nothing to do with your ability to work around limited inflexible UI.

Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Same argument was stated in defence of the old *horrible* probe system.

Being a master of poor UI doesn't make good UI a bad thing.


There's nothing actually wrong with the UI. While improvements can still be made, it's not really limited or poor.


Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Shift + Drag = Move/Resize all probes
Ctrl + Drag = Resize spread of all probes


Not everyone uses the basic 4 probes "drop down a size and move them closer" approach. Most of us who actually live in w-space have probing techniques that involve up to all 8 probes in a set pattern to facilitate faster probing.

While changing the spread will help you get higher signature strengths for that particular pattern (not saying it's a bad idea at all), different arrangements are used for different things, and setting them up accurately takes time. The goal here is to be able to save that set-up, and recall and re-use it.

Example:
In my home system I want to put probes over each planet to check for signature locality. I can recall a set-up that has the probes already arranged in the same layout as the planets in my system (because I positioned them before, and saved it), I adjust the x/y/z slightly with shift-drag and away we go.

I find a new signature, and want to use a 4 probe tetrahedron to pin it down. I recall my tetrahedron set-up (and then ctrl+drag to resize it ;)) and pin down the new signature, its a wormhole!

Neighbouring system has 50 signatures in it, I need a fast sweeper pattern using all 8 probes to eliminate undesirable signatures quickly. Couple of clicks and I call it up.

30 minutes later I have a handful of unidentified signatures left, and I need to go back to my tetrahedron to get some decent strength hits on them, which is fine because I can just load the pattern that was saved.

Does it still not seem beneficial to you?

Kilostream
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.28 14:11:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
....But the point that it might make probing ships too easy does need to be considered....


Well up for this,

Also to your point, Teadaze - I'd say probing for ships right now is too hard.

In fact, I'll go one further - probing for ships is practically impossible.
Assuming the pilot of the ship you're after is not some stoned zombie, or afk, absolutely anything can evade the clutches of a prober no problem at all - you're relying on a lack of awareness, a blunder, or coincidence if you wana catch someone by probing them out.
Currently you have a better chance of success by using the directional scanner to find approximate direction and picking a likely warpable object lying on that plane and chancing your arm warping to that.

I don't know exactly how CCP thought "combat" probes would be used, but to have brought about a situation where a default tool included with any ship is more effective in terms of chance-of-success than a specialised ship using specialised equipment smells of f**k-up to me!




Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.03.09 11:47:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 22/02/2010 06:13:54
Shift + Drag = Move/Resize all probes
Ctrl + Drag = Resize spread of all probes

Code gets probe positions, if the a probe is moved towards "center" then all other "corners" are also moved towards this point.


I love this suggestion, as well as all the excellent discussion for and against this proposal. Would like to see more. Also...supporting my own proposal!

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.03.09 12:45:00 - [42]
 

.

Miyamoto Isoruku
Caldari
Original Sin.

Posted - 2010.03.11 20:49:00 - [43]
 

Major support.

Marquis d'Carabas
Posted - 2010.03.12 18:10:00 - [44]
 

.

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.03.13 21:24:00 - [45]
 


Omega Flames
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.03.13 22:17:00 - [46]
 


Asheru
Caldari
The Shadow Plague
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.03.13 23:15:00 - [47]
 

The probing system could be a bit more user-friendly. Positioning probes in 3 dimensions on a 2-dimensional grid is, at times, very aggravating.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.03.14 03:11:00 - [48]
 

I hate it when CCP tries to provide game balance through obtuse UI so I'm going to have to support this. Really now that they have the mechanics they want though I think they should take a look at re-balancing the system. Really I'd prefer Battlesmiths idea though as it's much more fluid and fits in with whats already there.

Scerolikk Teromni
Atrocious Order

Posted - 2010.03.14 23:16:00 - [49]
 

YES YES OH GOD YES

A good point is made about combat probes, though, in that it would give a big advantage to probers because it would take a lot less time to probe. This new functionality would be solely for reducing how tedious it is to position your probes... not to make it quicker... so how about when you use a saved probe pattern, it takes an additional <number that makes sense> seconds to run a scan?

Definitely supported.

Galstab McGee
Posted - 2010.03.14 23:32:00 - [50]
 

I'd support if the proposal was an improved UI, but the current one is workable, and I find myself falling in with the crowd saying it could make things too easy. Something worth getting should take time and have difficulty.

Wonder how the CSM will vote on it...

Cyber Ten
New Eden Renegades
Burn Away
Posted - 2010.03.20 17:43:00 - [51]
 

sounds like a good idea, i likes.

Colonel Evans
Posted - 2010.03.20 20:15:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Lord Helghast
Dear god yes!

Altheros
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.03.20 22:00:00 - [53]
 

+1 mynxee!

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2010.03.22 00:46:00 - [54]
 

Probe patterns for finding POS'? Localizing sigs with preset patterns? HELL YES!

Atreus Tac
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.03.22 03:07:00 - [55]
 

Will only be beneficial to PvE pilots and would hurt PvP due to making it easier for larger blobs to jump on smaller gangs.

Not supported and happily I cant see CCP putting this in anyway. All that need to happen is just to neaten up the scanner UI


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