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blankseplocked Solo players: missions are no more for you ? ¬_¬
 
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bloody catty
Posted - 2004.11.26 11:08:00 - [1]
 

So, you've done missions lvl1,then lvl2,then lvl3...and now that lvl4 are out, you cant do them as they're expected to be played with at least 2/3bs... so what can we do now (players wanting to do missions alone) ? Do lvl3 missions until death killing 3 cruisers and 5 frigs... ¿? I tried lvl4 missions when shiva test started, and yeah, they were a challenge, but still DOABLE with some tactic, warp out/in and else, but now theres no point at all.

Just wanted to point this out, as there are lot of players who, by the way the game is played, have NOT access to kill npcs in 0.0, so what can they do ? And no, this isnt a post complaining about BS losses, or that i dont have 0.0 space access, just thinking a bit in all players

Sad

Astrid Tron
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.11.26 11:18:00 - [2]
 

I have done 7 or 8 lvl 4 missions alone since Exodus launch - 2 of them were kill missions. It was hard and took at least an hour a piece, but then again... lvl4 is not supposed to be for solo players!

What is it that you are asking? Agent missions have been taken to the next step - harder and for teams. You are asking for 'not that much harder, for solo players, but with much better rewards'.

EVE is very much about cooperation, and joining up with some mates to do a big lvl4 killer is awesome - trust me. Cooperate or stay with lvl 3. That is the message to all players, I believe.

Zidock
Rennfeuer
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2004.11.26 11:24:00 - [3]
 

So ccp is esentially eliminating solo players from doing agent missions, that might cause people to leave. I enjoy doing solo missions when feeling anti social and dont want to listen to other people complain. I am personally sick and tired of lvl 3 even now because they are still very easy. If I want to bdo lvl 4 then I have to wait, hope someone wants to help me out and this should be a game where you can play by yourself and not be forced to interact with people when you do not want to. There needs to be a happy meduim for someone with those needs, and I am not alone on this either.

bloody catty
Posted - 2004.11.26 11:39:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Vacaburra on 26/11/2004 11:44:34
im sorry, yes, im talking about KILL missions only (as i've only tried those).

About rewards: im not complaining about rewards,but to have a lvl between lvl3 and lvl4(atm) missions. And btw, i've had much better rewards at some lvl3 than of those 2 lvl4missions i've done yesterday(accomplished), so no, rewards arent the problem.Or at least the problem i'm pointing at.

Eve is very much about cooperation, and team playing and else,agree.But there are NO missions for some1 who wants to do MISSIONS alone, in a BS. Why do i say that:

- lvl1: for frigs
- lvl2: for frigs/low skilled cruiser
- lvl3: for cruisers/low skilleds bs
- lvl4: for bs teams ?

Can you see the pattern ? I expected lvl4missions to be hard, but not as hard as to not be played by alone pilots. Thats what i thought AFTER doing some missions when shiva test started, as i said before. With the introduction of complexes/beacons i cant see why lvl4 missions must be team based missions, or at least why there inst an intermediate level(so alone and team playing are options).

And as Zigoh says, why must we do missions with someone ? Those who play alone, or are in corps with different time-zones cant do that ! And one thing is the play to be player-relation meant, and another that you cant do it alone.weird for me...
ugh

Gungankllr
Caldari
Hard Rock Mining Co.
Territorial Claim Unit
Posted - 2004.11.26 11:41:00 - [5]
 

Aye. I had made another thread about this, but I think that level 4 missions should be categorized in two groups, by the agent type.

L4 Security: Missions for solo battleship pilots which should be equivalent to a 0.0 Battleship spawn (or greater) these missions should be challenging, but not enough to completely own a solo player with no hope of completion.

L4 Command: Missions for fleets of players to interact, should be far more difficult than standard L4 missions. These missions should be nigh impossible for a solo player.

Zidock
Rennfeuer
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2004.11.26 11:43:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Gungankllr
Aye. I had made another thread about this, but I think that level 4 missions should be categorized in two groups, by the agent type.

L4 Security: Missions for solo battleship pilots which should be equivalent to a 0.0 Battleship spawn (or greater) these missions should be challenging, but not enough to completely own a solo player with no hope of completion.

L4 Command: Missions for fleets of players to interact, should be far more difficult than standard L4 missions. These missions should be nigh impossible for a solo player.


I 100% agree with this.
CCP can you please respond here Rolling Eyes

bloody catty
Posted - 2004.11.26 11:44:00 - [7]
 

100% agree too...Confused

Arthur Guinness
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Posted - 2004.11.26 11:48:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Zidock
So ccp is esentially eliminating solo players from doing agent missions, that might cause people to leave. I enjoy doing solo missions when feeling anti social and dont want to listen to other people complain. I am personally sick and tired of lvl 3 even now because they are still very easy. If I want to bdo lvl 4 then I have to wait, hope someone wants to help me out and this should be a game where you can play by yourself and not be forced to interact with people when you do not want to. There needs to be a happy meduim for someone with those needs, and I am not alone on this either.


You can always go to 0.0 and solo kill bs spawns there.
You can also still solo lvl4 missions.
Everyone can do that.
A lot of people do it.

But please escrow me your stuff if you leave because you don't get free easy risk less bs kills that drop über loot for you alone.

bloody catty
Posted - 2004.11.26 11:57:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Vacaburra on 26/11/2004 12:05:13
You can always go to 0.0 and solo kill bs spawns there.
You can also still solo lvl4 missions.
Everyone can do that.
A lot of people do it.

But please escrow me your stuff if you leave because you don't get free easy risk less bs kills that drop über loot for you alone.


Your ignorance pulls your post down.Please do some lvl4 missions solo and then, return and post impressions.

Going to 0.0 and kill bs spawns is not a reason why from lvl3 to lvl4 the difference is so huge, when at the same time there are beacons, meaned for teams of players.

No, you can not do solo lots of lvl4 missions. or do you have a titan ? :o
i bet all my wallet (25M) that you cant do the sabotage mission lvl4 alone, whatever your ship/fitting is.If you can do it, frap it, and i'll send those millions to your account. :)

This is the spawn that pops at 2km when you kill the mercenary commanders, frigs and haulers.


Sternburg Export
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.11.26 12:00:00 - [10]
 

Vac...

Plz remove the picture ....

Forum looks horrible now... ugh

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.11.26 12:46:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Vacaburra
Edited by: Vacaburra on 26/11/2004 12:05:13
You can always go to 0.0 and solo kill bs spawns there.
You can also still solo lvl4 missions.
Everyone can do that.
A lot of people do it.

But please escrow me your stuff if you leave because you don't get free easy risk less bs kills that drop über loot for you alone.


Your ignorance pulls your post down.Please do some lvl4 missions solo and then, return and post impressions.

Going to 0.0 and kill bs spawns is not a reason why from lvl3 to lvl4 the difference is so huge, when at the same time there are beacons, meaned for teams of players.

No, you can not do solo lots of lvl4 missions. or do you have a titan ? :o
i bet all my wallet (25M) that you cant do the sabotage mission lvl4 alone, whatever your ship/fitting is.If you can do it, frap it, and i'll send those millions to your account. :)

This is the spawn that pops at 2km when you kill the mercenary commanders, frigs and haulers.




I had that mission when I was testing on singularity. Admittedly, I got annihilated, but I wasn't set up for it, and I wasn't expecting it.

I guarantee you that within a month, someone will be doing those solo. Who knows, it may even be me.

shambley
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.11.26 13:33:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: shambley on 26/11/2004 13:37:22
Lvl4 are advertised as group missions

Dev's have been saying this for 6 months or thereabouts - nobody ranted about it when they said they would be group based - maybe someone can link the original dev blog that it's mentioned in.
lvl 4 are gonna be group missions those who are very skilled can get away with some of them solo but I believe that was never the intention

lvl 3 mission boring? -
yup agree there - It would be nice if they reviewed lvl3 missions and the variety of lvl3 solo kill missions even more than they have done (which they added too only a matter of weeks ago)
lvl 3 should have a few more mordus style difficult missions and the seed for the variety you get should be reviewed when things settle down - ie damsels missions 12 times in a row is boring as hell.

Besides that great job on exodus launch CCP servers seem to be stabilzing bit by bit and bugs getting addressed - Pity so many people want million dollar service for the few dollars a month but ain't that always they way - Hey and what's with old age - and ugly people - and short people can you fix that too and lower my taxes and fix loosing odd socks in the wash and ..... bleh

bloody catty
Posted - 2004.11.26 13:57:00 - [13]
 

is it so difficult to understand that im not saying lvl4 are not cool ? yes of course THEY ARE cool and great and all that you want, but where do the bs solo player (when doing kill missions ?)

btw drunken, even with double kinetic hardener+explo and 3 reps i doubt someone can tank it, and with that fitting what kind of weapons can you carry ? i dont think theyll be enough to kill it, but if you or anyone does it..my respect sure... anyway, if lvl3 were more challenging, im sure i wouldnt be saying this :|

Astrid Tron
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.11.26 13:58:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Vacaburra
Edited by: Vacaburra on 26/11/2004 11:44:34
Eve is very much about cooperation, and team playing and else,agree.But there are NO missions for some1 who wants to do MISSIONS alone, in a BS. Why do i say that:

- lvl1: for frigs
- lvl2: for frigs/low skilled cruiser
- lvl3: for cruisers/low skilleds bs
- lvl4: for bs teams ?

Can you see the pattern ?

ugh


I think that I can, yes. You agree that EVE is very much about cooperation, but want solo BS missions. That is where we differ. I see difficult cooperative missions as the next step, you see slightly harder solo-missions for experienced pilots in Tier2 BS's as the next step.

Lvl4 missons are as adevertised - for groups.

As for the group consisting of multiple BS's only, seems to stem from a lack of imagination. What about 1 BS supported by cruisers that jam the big targets and take down the frigates while the BS deals the heavy damage to the big targets. That sounds like fun to me.

Quote:
I expected lvl4missions to be hard, but not as hard as to not be played by alone pilots.


Well... That just about says it all, doesnt it?

I hope they make some hard lvl3 missions that can satisfy your wishes.

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2004.11.26 14:21:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Zidock
So ccp is esentially eliminating solo players from doing agent missions, that might cause people to leave. I enjoy doing solo missions when feeling anti social and dont want to listen to other people complain. I am personally sick and tired of lvl 3 even now because they are still very easy. If I want to bdo lvl 4 then I have to wait, hope someone wants to help me out and this should be a game where you can play by yourself and not be forced to interact with people when you do not want to. There needs to be a happy meduim for someone with those needs, and I am not alone on this either.



What a load of crap. This game never has and never will be a game "where you can play by yourself". Did you miss the "MM" in MMORPG? What next? "I want to play offline, make EVE for people without net connections CCP buhu".

If you want to do lvl 4 missions go join a large corp that has a fair number of players in your timezone. If you want to solo against big spawns go out to 0.0 space. Most of the time it is fairly safe especially if you buy a hunting pass.

CCP said from the beginning that lvl 4 missions where *meant* for groups.

bloody catty
Posted - 2004.11.26 15:07:00 - [16]
 

Yes i expected that hardness (very hard but no SO hard) cuz i played the lvl4 missions and werent so hard, at least when the shiva test started.

and for the last guy, every people i've known doing missions they do it when they havent mates online, and i think its the purpose of them..introduce the game to new players, or an option for those who want a bit of action even if they dont have the corpies online, which is my case most of the times.(and i think most others)

i dont think this option we're asking for is too far away from the lvl1,2 and 3 missions...or lvl3 are meant for huge gangs of frigs only ? ¬¬

Haematite
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.11.26 15:19:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Gungankllr
Aye. I had made another thread about this, but I think that level 4 missions should be categorized in two groups, by the agent type.

L4 Security: Missions for solo battleship pilots which should be equivalent to a 0.0 Battleship spawn (or greater) these missions should be challenging, but not enough to completely own a solo player with no hope of completion.

L4 Command: Missions for fleets of players to interact, should be far more difficult than standard L4 missions. These missions should be nigh impossible for a solo player.


Agreed!!!



Heavy Messing
Caldari
The Collective
Posted - 2004.11.26 15:47:00 - [18]
 

Agreed x2

MOOstradamus
Posted - 2004.11.26 18:45:00 - [19]
 

/me wonders if the 13½ million ISK Agent Collateral demand he just paid (& collected) might put a few solo players off ... Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Carfax
Pink Fur Trading Company
Posted - 2004.11.26 20:12:00 - [20]
 

You demand new missions that are a greater challenge and they give you missions requiring teamwork.
Its seems though that rather than rise to the new challenge of teamwork you want the missions to be made easier to complete on your own.
Your rationalisation for this tends towards the "we are the customer we must be satisfied". Welcome to eve online a massively multiplayer supermarket Rolling Eyes where we're busy nerfing back the prices

Dust Puppy
Posted - 2004.11.26 20:19:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Carfax
You demand new missions that are a greater challenge and they give you missions requiring teamwork.
Its seems though that rather than rise to the new challenge of teamwork you want the missions to be made easier to complete on your own.
Your rationalisation for this tends towards the "we are the customer we must be satisfied". Welcome to eve online a massively multiplayer supermarket Rolling Eyes where we're busy nerfing back the prices


I don't think anybody wants to remove those missions it's just the gap between level 3 and level 4 mission is to big. I can easily do every level 3 mission in a Moa but I can't do level 4 missions. What we want is a 3.5 mission and keep the level 4 mission Wink

Ivan Siff
Caldari
Knights with Honor
Posted - 2004.11.26 20:49:00 - [22]
 

lvl 4 missions are very hard to solo, but so far I've been able to finish every one I've tried (all kill missions). I love how hard it is, and I make very little cash when you compare it to lvl3 missions, but lvl 4 missions are a blast! I love being nervous again when I embark on a mission, instead of knowing when I can go get a coke during combat and watching tv while doing missions since they are so easy.

I assume I will lose my bs any mission now, and some are much harder then others I know, but its nice having a challenge again!

KrogothZero
Caldari
eXceed Inc.
No Holes Barred
Posted - 2004.11.26 21:53:00 - [23]
 

Beef the current lv3 make it lv4 but have lv3 as is now too, make the current lv4 lv5. Fixed.

Hematic
Caldari
R.O.T.
Posted - 2004.11.27 01:53:00 - [24]
 

It's not that the level 4 missions are that tough.

If you are careful and agro one group at a time from distance it is doable. But there are a couple problems.

1) Sometimes you warp to a safe distance sometimes you don't. Now whenever we warp back we warp literally on the mission BM not 60k from it. But 0 m. So no sniping.

2) Heavy Missles are doing 5x damage during the Damsel in Distress mission. Our Apoc pilot showed us his log showing 750 from a scurge missle I. The NPCs took out an Apoc with two activated kinetic hardeners and two large acommos in 88 seconds.

Some of the NPCs are broken I think. That and reliably warping in to 60k from the BM is crucial so you don't agr the entire lot.

Petr Sorokin
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.11.27 02:00:00 - [25]
 

Yah i ran into a Damsel mission today, warped in at 9k from the entire spawn and had my armageddon with 3 hardeners and 2 repairers blown up in under 30 sec.

There is hard, and then there is silly.

Ships like BS need time to even lock an enemy and deploy drones if you are going to swarm us with 20 frigates or whatever. If you force the warp in BM to be inside the min effective range for BS guns , you dont let the players use MWDs to get distance, you basically have a mission that isn't possible.

When the BMs work and you start at 80-100k from the target they are possible. Hard but possible. But, once that bug hits where you get a warp in at 0, say bye bye to 150mill plus of ship.



digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2004.11.27 04:35:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: digitalwanderer on 27/11/2004 04:38:37
I don't really have a problem per se with Lvl 4 missions,at least the way they were set up in the test server,which i had a blast blowing them up while still being challenging,but having nearly all of them happening in deadspace in TQ and with the capability to easily overwealm an experienced Solo pilot due to the sheer number of hostiles,and with no ability to use MWD's just isn't smart to put it lightly...Rolling Eyes
ugh

Complexes should make up a fair amount of the total in terms of available lvl 4 missions to cater towards multiple BS mission runners,but they shouldn't be completely made up of complexes either...A way of telling which lvl 4 agents give kill missions entirely made up of complexes and agents that give much tougher standard lvl 4 missions like those in the test server,which are still doable solo,wouldn't be a bad idea for instance...


Have the lvl 4 complex based missions pay a lot better in terms of rewards,bonuses and bounties and give higher loyalty points as well,I'm not even opposed that those also increase corp/faction standing at a faster rate either,but don't leave out standard lvl 4 missions,set up much the same way as lvl 3 ones are(including gone bezerk and blocade type ones),but with tougher NPC's to cater to the experienced solo mission running crowd too...there is room for both types in Eve...














marioman
Caldari
Caldari Macrominer Waste Management
United Corporations Against Macros
Posted - 2004.11.27 05:40:00 - [27]
 

One point people have missed is the fact that even though these are for groups, there are no group benifits from these missions, if you are in a gang and someone completes a mission (saying as if you in your gang had worked as a group to complete the mission) only the person that started the mission (also the only one to get the mission in his journal and any bookmarks) gets the reward/bonus, the standing gain, the email from other agents and the Loyalty Points. If CCP truely wants these to be group missions then there needs to be group benifits, after all why would i want to help someone on a mission where I dont get an implant or standing gain or Loyalty Points?

Carfax
Pink Fur Trading Company
Posted - 2004.11.27 15:20:00 - [28]
 

You go to agent for a mission and they offer you one you consider to be too hard then don't do it. The idea is the agents are looking for pilots to run their missions for them . You are the supplier they are the customer, you need to meet their needs yet you want an agent system that meets your needs. They are agents for their corp not your agent.

Dark Dude
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.11.27 15:58:00 - [29]
 

done 2 lvl4 kill missions 1 of em was a deadspace mission on my own and tbh i think its quite cool--a challenge and quite rewarding although they take a bit of time to do....

I think the one spawn was 4 ravens 10 enforcers and craploads of frigs-


marioman
Caldari
Caldari Macrominer Waste Management
United Corporations Against Macros
Posted - 2004.11.27 19:22:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Carfax
You go to agent for a mission and they offer you one you consider to be too hard then don't do it. The idea is the agents are looking for pilots to run their missions for them . You are the supplier they are the customer, you need to meet their needs yet you want an agent system that meets your needs. They are agents for their corp not your agent.



Uhm no, if CCP meant these missions for groups and make the difficulty for groups then they should have made the agent system for groups, the entire group should get the benifits of the mission starter and not just the mission starter, thats only fair. Afterall the mission starter may not have been able to complete the mission w/o the group so the entire group deserves the reward


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