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Midori Amiiko
Gallente
NerdHerd
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.08.04 22:48:00 - [391]
 

Here's a concept...try having a few people paying attention to the help and moveme channels.
Don't give me the "we're so busy with other stuff" line either. People in nul-sec do 5 things at once and still keep an eye on local. (That's 5 in-game things, never mind RL issues.)
It doesn't say much about your commitment to testing when 20 hours before the testing begins it's a ghost town on Sisi. Maybe I'd like to, um, I don't know...fit a ship before the testing starts.


Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.08.05 01:11:00 - [392]
 

Originally by: Denidil


stop being a whiny ***** and help CCP find the cause of the issue. the best programmers on the planet always need help testing situations like this (that are caused by large connection counts) as they're unreproducible in a lab - they just have to be done.




So when Toyota had brake problems with the cars, did you go down and help test them out?

When they introduce new jets, are you down there volunteering to help test them?

What about bullet proof vests, ever help test those?


CCP is a company, that intentionally broke their game in December of 2009, and have subsequently stubbornly refused to right the wrong they did.

The game worked before, it does not now, they know it, we know it, and if you don't know it, well, your probably the only one.

Basically, the gist of it is, if they wanted people to be free for tests, the Sov structures we're now forced to shoot on the live server need a serious cut in hit points, as pretty much all of our actual gaming time is now spent shooting them through 30 second module lag.

I also don't volunteer to test a product I've been paying for for 4 years now, because the manufacturer broke something and refuses to back up to the previously working model till the kinks are worked out.


Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2010.08.05 08:40:00 - [393]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
CCP is a company, that intentionally broke their game in December of 2009, and have subsequently stubbornly refused to right the wrong they did.


1. It was not intentional. That would be insane (and save the cute reply to that).

2. They are trying to right the wrong.

Pneumon Blaster
Quondam Souls of the Universe corporation
THE R0NIN
Posted - 2010.08.05 09:12:00 - [394]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Pneumon Blaster


I can tell you as QA and Integration software engineer, i have never seen a company that would test production environment using their customers as testers. :)

Our role is to pay for the game, and play it.
Their role is develop and fix it.
How - its their problem not ours :)


// but the only problem here i see here is they expect it for free.
so we expect something for free from them too - like free play time, or SP bonus mentioned before.


you've never worked at an MMO developer then :D my employer's QA department is lucky.. we write financial switch (ISO 8583 message handlers) and ATM driving applications, etc. really easy to do coverage testing, MMOs have so many more orders of magnitude of possible code and actor interactions it's not even funny.

but offering SP/hour bonus on Tranq for helping on SiSi would be a great idea to get people


they would definitely get me too.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.05 11:48:00 - [395]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 11:50:09
Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 11:48:44
Originally by: Grath Telkin
So when Toyota had brake problems with the cars, did you go down and help test them out?


your example is not applicable. That was a mechanical fault that could be easily replicated in laboratory conditions without involving the consumers. Bulletproof vests don't require a volunteer test subject in order to demonstrate that they function.

This is a software fault that only manifests during use by the consumer. Therefore it is important to have the consumer connect and cause the error in a controlled environment for the sake of data gathering.

Asking the customer to help with testing is a perfectly reasonable approach when the fault only occurs during customer use and can't be otherwise reproduced.

Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2010.08.05 11:50:00 - [396]
 

Originally by: Xiaodown

2.) The mass testings need to actually happen - rather than being pushed back. But with the current state of the test server, I dunno how it's going to work with the borked overview, in-space navigation, window resize, etc.
Pretty much this.

They're saying how fixing lag is their number one priority and how desperate they are for people to help them, but at the same time doing their very best to guarantee people won't bother again by making the experience as painful as possible. Given how many other borked features there are in this build how can they even hope to get any meaningful information out of the test.

They're about to demonstrate to another chunk of their customer base how this whole 'fixing lag is our number one priority' is really a bit of a joke, and to top it off they've become so used to taking their customers for granted that they can't even see how insulting their attitude is.

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.08.05 12:11:00 - [397]
 

having the test at 20:00 EveTime also means most of your american players are at work.

20:00 Eve = 15:00 East, 14:00 Central, ....


CONCORD4U
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.08.05 14:15:00 - [398]
 

Originally by: Denidil
having the test at 20:00 EveTime also means most of your american players are at work.

20:00 Eve = 15:00 East, 14:00 Central, ....




And you would most certainly need American player to test stuff. Europeans don't play this game and won't go on Sissi. Beside the people that don't have work or are still at an age they go to school and might be off at that time, but those also don't live in the US.

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.08.05 14:48:00 - [399]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 11:50:09
Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 11:48:44
Originally by: Grath Telkin
So when Toyota had brake problems with the cars, did you go down and help test them out?


your example is not applicable. That was a mechanical fault that could be easily replicated in laboratory conditions without involving the consumers. Bulletproof vests don't require a volunteer test subject in order to demonstrate that they function.

This is a software fault that only manifests during use by the consumer. Therefore it is important to have the consumer connect and cause the error in a controlled environment for the sake of data gathering.

Asking the customer to help with testing is a perfectly reasonable approach when the fault only occurs during customer use and can't be otherwise reproduced.

I disagree. CCP employees can be and have been involved in large, performance problem plagued player actions on Tranquility.

Additionally, how do we know that CCP hasn't been able to reproduce the various issues impacting play in their own testing environments? CCP is under no obligation to reveal to their customers what they do and do not know about problems with their product.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.05 16:21:00 - [400]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 05/08/2010 16:22:56
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara
I disagree. CCP employees can be and have been involved in large, performance problem plagued player actions on Tranquility.

Additionally, how do we know that CCP hasn't been able to reproduce the various issues impacting play in their own testing environments? CCP is under no obligation to reveal to their customers what they do and do not know about problems with their product.


If they were able to and had reproduced it internally, or were able to gather the required data straight from TQ, why on Earth would they be asking us to help them stress test?

No, the fact that they're asking for people to login - voluntarily - to Singularity and do this is evidence enough that they have not been able to duplicate it on one of their dev test servers, nor are they able to get the information they need just from monitoring a live fight on Tranquility. What they need is bums in chairs across the planet, in the controlled environment of singularity. If they didn't need that, they wouldn't be asking for it.

It's simple logic - if they were ABLE to do it easily and without a few hundred players on their own systems, they WOULD have because it's more convenient.

RedShadow
Evoke.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:29:00 - [401]
 

Edited by: RedShadow on 05/08/2010 17:32:48
So im loading this new client build full enthusiastic to participate in Mass-Testing and i'm thinking "wtf is this ****?" like my old friend picard... srsly, 2 GB patch release some minutes before testing, well played SIRS!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg

Arela Xen
Gallente
Evoke.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:38:00 - [402]
 

I have installed my testclient two times now, yesterday and this afternoon...both clients are now useless, patcher tells me to download 2.6 gb...wtf? how can you expect people downloading 2.6 gb 3 hours before the test starts...is this the final testpatch now? ridiculous...

Lee Arch
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:39:00 - [403]
 

Edited by: Lee Arch on 05/08/2010 17:41:17
Edited by: Lee Arch on 05/08/2010 17:40:11
Edited by: Lee Arch on 05/08/2010 17:39:34
Originally by: RedShadow
Edited by: RedShadow on 05/08/2010 17:32:48
So im loading this new client build full enthusiastic to participate in Mass-Testing and i'm thinking "wtf is this ****?" like my old friend picard... srsly, 2 GB patch release some minutes before testing, well played SIRS!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg


I am currently patching from tranq->sisi its 14mb, but will fail on autopatching(at least for me), throws you to dl page. Then just patch manually.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/test/evepremiumpatch167296-171792_test_m.exe
tranq->sisi patch: cohabitate this forum, christ.

Phyrron
Gallente
Evoke.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:39:00 - [404]
 

Verry good Job !!!

Do you want our help ???

We couldt download the patch at 1700 Test begins at 2000 downloadtime = 4h30m (2.3GB)= 2130

congratulation... you realy want our help !!!

SharonChrista
Minmatar
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:43:00 - [405]
 

WTF !!! 2GB ???? 17:30 !!!

Marvenius
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:43:00 - [406]
 

Originally by: Lee Arch
Edited by: Lee Arch on 05/08/2010 17:40:11
Edited by: Lee Arch on 05/08/2010 17:39:34
Originally by: RedShadow
Edited by: RedShadow on 05/08/2010 17:32:48
So im loading this new client build full enthusiastic to participate in Mass-Testing and i'm thinking "wtf is this ****?" like my old friend picard... srsly, 2 GB patch release some minutes before testing, well played SIRS!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg


I am currently patching from tranq->sisi its 14mb, but will fail on autopatching(at least for me), throws you to dl page. Then just patch manually.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/test/evepremiumpatch167296-171792_test_m.exe
tranq->sisi patch: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/test/evepremiumpatch167296-171792_test_m.exe



Unfortunately Lee, they've just released another build, for which there isn't a patch available as yet - there's only the full 2.6Gb installer, so unless there's a patch appearing in the very near future to move it to the new build, they're going to have a very low turnout as people download and reinstall.

LoRDa RaMOs
Art of War Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:46:00 - [407]
 

Originally by: RedShadow
Edited by: RedShadow on 05/08/2010 17:32:48
So im loading this new client build full enthusiastic to participate in Mass-Testing and i'm thinking "wtf is this ****?" like my old friend picard... srsly, 2 GB patch release some minutes before testing, well played SIRS!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg


Dčja Vu... We could make a bad movie out of this... Laughing

Spc One
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:50:00 - [408]
 

Will be there to help you out at 20:00 UTC
Cool

Lee Arch
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:53:00 - [409]
 

Originally by: Marvenius
Originally by: Lee Arch
Edited by: Lee Arch on 05/08/2010 17:40:11
Edited by: Lee Arch on 05/08/2010 17:39:34
Originally by: RedShadow
Edited by: RedShadow on 05/08/2010 17:32:48
So im loading this new client build full enthusiastic to participate in Mass-Testing and i'm thinking "wtf is this ****?" like my old friend picard... srsly, 2 GB patch release some minutes before testing, well played SIRS!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg


I am currently patching from tranq->sisi its 14mb, but will fail on autopatching(at least for me), throws you to dl page. Then just patch manually.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/test/evepremiumpatch167296-171792_test_m.exe
tranq->sisi patch: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/test/evepremiumpatch167296-171792_test_m.exe



Unfortunately Lee, they've just released another build, for which there isn't a patch available as yet - there's only the full 2.6Gb installer, so unless there's a patch appearing in the very near future to move it to the new build, they're going to have a very low turnout as people download and reinstall.


just saw and couldn't believe it, ill be out doing sports for like 30-40min, when im back i either see a patchfile up or NC isn't showing up.

well played ccp

oil
Double-L
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:08:00 - [410]
 

Edited by: oil on 05/08/2010 18:19:03
Edited by: oil on 05/08/2010 18:14:00
Edited by: oil on 05/08/2010 18:11:46
i just updated my tesserver build earlier today to make sure i could participate and now i find im not compatible anymore? wtf? are they destroying our goodwill on purpose or what?


ahh i read the client and it states: you are able to connect with an unpatched client but how?

Ting Mei
Gallente
Federal Institute Service
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:17:00 - [411]
 

Edited by: Ting Mei on 05/08/2010 18:17:03
Always the "MOVEME" channel to be teleported to the test zone ?

treetopx
Gallente
Contamination Control Project
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:19:00 - [412]
 

The update has been downloaded. The client will now close and the update process begin.

Press 'OK' to continue.

And it downloads the same patch again which is like 2.6 gigs which ive done 3 times now. Screw this and this damn game.

People are going to get tired of EVE because of the failure it seems to have allot of lately.

Cuchulain Spartan
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:20:00 - [413]
 

Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 05/08/2010 18:26:32


CCP, please try this in future:

1 Have SISI up and running 24-48 hrs before the test.

2 Have all patches available 24-48 hrs before the test.

3 Try not to make patch that are in the Gig range,try keep them smaller. Not everyone can pull 2-3 Gigs in 15 mins or afford to pull 2-3 Gigs.

4 Do not make any SISI changes 24-48 hrs prior to the test.

5 Do not make any Patch changes 24-48 hrs prior to the test.

6 Have someone dedicated to the "move me" channel 12 hrs prior to testing and during testing, not multitasking, focused soley on the channel.

7 Have someone in a dedicated channel on Tranquility 12 hrs prior to testing and during testing so as to answer SISI related question and to encourage people to hop on SISI.

8 Make a simple 1-2 min video on your youtube page explaining how to get on SISI, step by step clear visual and audio instructions basic enough for a baboon to understand (some people have difficulties still).

9 Set up automatic advertisements in every local on Tranquility promoting mass testing on SISI 24-48 hrs before testing. You would be amazed at how many many players have never even heard of SISI and dont know that mass testing takes place.

10 And finally, offer some sort of incentive to attend, maybe a raffle, free SP or Isk or even a bloody carrot. Asking for 500-1000 man hrs if not more from players for free with no incentive is a bit cheeky, even if you just gave people some snowballs for Tranquility.

Follow the above and I'm pretty sure you'd get a good turnout.

Spart o/






Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:24:00 - [414]
 

Wish you could make these after work - I'm in California and this is right in the middle of my work day.

Ting Mei
Gallente
Federal Institute Service
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:24:00 - [415]
 

Originally by: treetopx
The update has been downloaded. The client will now close and the update process begin.

Press 'OK' to continue.

And it downloads the same patch again which is like 2.6 gigs which ive done 3 times now. Screw this and this damn game.

People are going to get tired of EVE because of the failure it seems to have allot of lately.


I have exactely the same problem !

Smoogle
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:26:00 - [416]
 

Oh. Lovely. It's NOT just me.

...are they really expecting 300-500 people to all DL/install a new 2 gig chunk in 2 hours?

LoRDa RaMOs
Art of War Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:26:00 - [417]
 

I've been able to connect with an unpatched client. It's working fine so far. Here's how to do it.

Originally by: CCP Tanis
How to connect to Singularity for this test:

* Create a separate folder for your test client ( i.e "C:\evetest")

* Copy everything from your original EVE folder (by default located at "C:\Program Files\CCP" ) to the new ("C:\evetest").

* Create a shortcut for the new eve.exe file inside C:\evetest,

* Right click on the shortcut and select properties, then select the Shortcut tab

* Add /server:87.237.38.50 to the target line and press OK

* The final look of the Target line would look something like this: "C:\evetest\eve.exe" /server:87.237.38.50

* Then double click on the shortcut and log in.

Z'Lordi
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:29:00 - [418]
 

I agree with you Spartan,
i should know better by now, they always drop a patch just before the mass testing event, *some to big infact that by the time i am up to date, the test is over* but to drop a 2 gig complete install is crazy. Your list of steps spartan would be a nice way for them to go about it getting sisi known and well as working out all the kinks so sisi will get the attention it deserves, To bring a better TQ for all.

CCP Tanis

Posted - 2010.08.05 18:33:00 - [419]
 

I wanted to drop in to point out that: for today's test, you will only need to copy the TQ client and add a shortcut as described in the OP. You will not need to patch anything at all!

Steps, for the lazy/TL;DR among us (like me):

1. Copy your TQ client
2. Create a shortcut to the new client somewhere
3. Edit the shortcut properties and add the following into the 'target' field, exactly, minus the quotes: " /server:singularity" (note the space before the '/')

You will then be able to login to Sisi, without having to patch anything.

We've also uploaded a new mirror, so accounts and characters should be much more up to date for everyone!

Amarr Citizen250120111442
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:43:00 - [420]
 

any chance of instructions on a mac?

I would love to help but its quite hard to translate Windows computer talk, to mac computer talk...


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