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Korvin Eeex
Gallente
Ancestors Of The Half Ninjas
Posted - 2010.02.09 11:00:00 - [1]
 

Finally after 4 yrs it is time to leave this broken game that is worse and worse by every passing day. I have to say this feels great, leaving game that makes you work so hard for a little fun is the best thing I did in long time.

Back to topic. I have 70bil ISK + 30 bil in assets (before you ask all of that will be or is already gone). What I would like to do is to share how I earned all that money and leave legacy to someone who is ready to pursue big money.

CHARACTERS:

I had 4 accounts, 12 charactes in total. 4 main characters were my PvP, industrials etc. but 8 characters were all trained traders and all of them were paid exclusively by GTCs. So, to do what I did you need 12 chars, and that means 4 accounts or 2 friends with 2 accounts each (what is even better).

TRAINING:

Your trade chars have to be trained like this: Accounting IV, Broker Relations IV, Daytrading V, Margin Trading IV, Marketing III, Procurement IV, Retail V, Trade V, Visibility III, Wholesale IV. These are only trade skills, you also need to do some learning skills and cybernetics I to plug +3 implants). Of course you can do more or less, depends on what you want, need to do.

BUSINESS:

Now to the core - BLUEPRINT TRADING. Yes that is the job I made countless billions from and complete explanation is following.

SYSTEMS (or where you will assign your chars):

HEK - Hek VIII - Moon 12 - Boundless Creation Factory - Metropolis
RENS - Rens VI - Moon 8 - Brutor Tribe Treasury - Heimatar
OURSULAERT - Oursulaert III - Federation Navy Testing Facility - Essence
AMARR - Amarr VIII (Oris) - Emperor Family - Domain
TASH-MURKON PRIME - Tash-Murkon Prime II - Moon 1 - Kaalakiota Corporation Factory - Tash-Murkon
INARO - Inaro VII - Moon 4 - Lai Dai Corporation Factory - The Citadel
SOBASEKI - Sobaseki VIII - Caldari Navy Logistics Support - Lonetrek
DODIXIE - Dodixie IX - Moon 20 - Federation Navy Assembly Plant - Sinq Laison
BEREYE - Bereye VI - Federal Inteligence Office Assembly Plant - Everyshore
JITA - Famous 4-4 station

So, there is 10 systems and only 8 alts? No worries, you can use Sobaseki and Jita together (1 jump), Tash-Murkon Prime and Amarr together (2 jumps), Hek and Rens together (5 jumps but only one jump from Hek to Eystur from where you can manage your orders directly), also Bereye and Oursulaert can be done together, think it is 2-3 jumps.

SO WHAT TO SELL WHERE? Big one, read carefully:

HEK - Caldari, Gallente, Amarr Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers, Cap Boosters 150/200/400/800, Cap Recharger
RENS - Caldari, Gallente, Amarr Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers, Cap Boosters 150/200/400/800, Cap Recharger
OURSULAERT - Caldari, Minmatar, Amarr Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers, Cap Boosters 150/200/400/800, Cap Recharger, Armor Hardeners, EANM, Micro Aux Power Core
AMARR - Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers (except Stabber)
TASH-MURKON PRIME - Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers (except Stabber), Sentry and Armor/Shield Manitenance Drones
INARO - Amarr, Gallente, Minmatar Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers, Sentry and Armor/Shield Manitenance Drones, Cap Boosters 150/200/400/800, Cap Recharger, Armor Hardeners, EANM, Micro Aux Power Core
SOBASEKI - Amarr, Gallente, Minmatar Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers, Armor/Shield Manitenance Drones, Cap Boosters 150/200/400/800, Cap Recharger, Armor Hardeners, EANM, Micro Aux Power Core
DODIXIE - Amarr, Caldari, Minmatar Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers, Sentry and Armor/Shield Manitenance Drones
BEREYE - Amarr, Caldari, Minmatar Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers, Sentry and Armor/Shield Manitenance Drones - this is Gallente region but no cruisers, industrials, destroyer and some frigs for sale. so sell it.
JITA - Amarr, Caldari, Minmatar Frigates, Industrials, Destroyers, Cruisers

Only Minmatar frigates you are going to sell anywhere are Probe and Rifter.

S0lar Flare
Caldari
Ancestors Of The Half Ninjas
Posted - 2010.02.09 11:02:00 - [2]
 

WHERE TO BUY BLUEPRINTS?:

Amarr BPOs:
Frigates: - few jumps from Tash or in Domain region
Cruisers: (-Omen) in Tash-Murkon Prime, Omen in Bhizeba
Industrials: Bhizeba
Destroyer: Bhizeba

Caldari BPOs:
Easy, basically everywhere in Caldari regions, best around Inaro

Gallente BPOs:
Frigates: Everywhere in Gallente regions. Incursus, Imicus and Atron best to buy near Bereye (2 jumps)
All other BPOs are easy accessible.

Minmatar BPOs:
Best to go to low sec near HEK and buy all BPOs there. Use shuttle of course. Also you can only buy frigates in low sec and others near/around - Hek/Eystur.

Sentry and Maintenance drones:
Few jumps from Bereye, or systems around 5 jumps from Dodixie.

Cap Boosters, Armor Hardeners, EANM, Micro Aux Power Core:
Penirgman in Domain region and/or around.

Drones:
Hammerhead/Infiltrator - few jumps from Tash
Vespa/Valkyre - generally in Gallente regions

HOW TO SELL STUFF?:

This is big one. Let's go: Make corp, put your chars in corp and make your HQ in Inaro or near it (that is great position for office because it's kinda in the middle of everything). All BPOs are going to be in corp hanger. Make hangers as follows: Ammar Ships, Caldari Ships, Minmatar Ships, Gallente Ships, Other BPOs and put your BPOs where they belong. So when you need to fill empty orders just send your alt to Inaro take BPOs you need and send it back.

For real good business I would recommend 5 bil ISK investment (1b for each hanger). Take BPOs, go to systems and set sell orders. The most important thing is to log everyday and correct prices. Without that you cannot develop businnes.

Every now and then some "clever", "uber", "good" player will come and try to ruin your business by changing prices every few hours. These guys are most anoying because they do not have RLs so you will have to be careful. One option is to cut their prices as often or what I love is to change all prices to NPC prices. You are still on zero and if someone goes lower their loss, not to mention that you can buy everything that goes below NPC price.

Atm there is corp called Primate Holdings Inc. with 4 members, all alts from one guy (Garewulf, Rheroc, Thorac Amai, Wulf'gar). That guy comes from WoW, likes to make threats through evemails and think he is ultimate griefer so you'll have to keep with him because he is going to try and cut prices every few hours. Also there are few other guys that are doing similar stuff but on much smaller scale (like Vashta Nerada Corp).

And the end MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE: you have to log every day and change prices, sometime two, three, five times per day. It looks boring but think about gain. If you are dedicated you can earn enough to play EvE for years and years and spend money on most crazy toys.

I'll be answering your questions for few more days.

RAW23
Posted - 2010.02.09 11:05:00 - [3]
 

Thanks for that!

What does the 5bil investment bring in per month on average?

Xar0
Posted - 2010.02.09 11:15:00 - [4]
 

TLDR:

I made isk.
I have a lot of alts.
I'm quitting eve (no you can't have my stuff)

Samroski
Games Inc.
Posted - 2010.02.09 11:28:00 - [5]
 

Hey I like this new trend in MD- where people are upfront with their trade insights. A refreshing change. Has inspired me to reveal all my secrets too- after I hit that 100b mark :)

Updating your orders 5 times a day is partly what got to you in the end. The ideal business/trade plan is one that works in the background, while you do more enjoyable stuff (what I am working on, and currently succeeding).

S0lar Flare
Caldari
Ancestors Of The Half Ninjas
Posted - 2010.02.09 11:31:00 - [6]
 

Ok to give some infos about prices.

Frigates (NPC price) are from 200K to 2.5 mil. Sell price is usually from 2mil to 10mil, so on frigs you are getting from 1 mil to 5-6 mil per pcs.

Industrials (NPC price) are from 3 mil to 10 mil. Sell price from 5 mil to 20 mil, so on industrials you are getting from 2 mil to 10 mil per pcs.

Cruisers (NPC price) are from 25 mil to 70 mil. On cruisers you make usually from 10 - 30 mil per pcs.

Other modules like Sentry Drones are 13.300.000 and usually I sell them between 19 - 21 mil, so it's easy 7-8 mil per pcs.

etc.

5 bil investment (if you are dedicated can bring you easy 1 bil per month). But you have to keep you BPO stock and 5 bil have to be all the times invested in new BPOs for sale.

At the end I had around 20bil only in BPOs in stock but that was overkill really. Also keep in mind there are other regions in eve I didn't mention so you can do this business on places I didn't mention.

Ambo
I've Got Nothing
Posted - 2010.02.09 11:38:00 - [7]
 

How long did it take you to reach 100 bil?

I hope you got some enjoyment out of all that isk you earned before leaving. I also used to be infected with the disease that is trading... I made huge amounts of isk but didn't do anything with it. One day I just decided to give it all up and go PvPing. Much more fun and feels less like a second job, that's for sure. Very Happy

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.02.09 11:40:00 - [8]
 

Sooo.... you played for roughly 4 years, still have 4 accounts ("but soon they'll be gone"), you have (probably) been doing this "specific thing" of your for at least one year if not two years, you needed to be online up to 5 times a day on each of your 8 trade characters to do it right... and all you got to show for is 100 bil ISK ?!?
No wonder you burned out.
You can relatively leisurely make 1 bil ISK per month with a single character on a single account in a single location logging in not even daily if you're smart about it.
But you weren't necessarily smart about it... you simply used brute force. Which, ok, granted, it worked, but look what it brought you - you feel like THE GAME makes you "work so hard for a little fun", when it was you all alone the one who was working itself so hard for no good reason whatsoever.

Onyx Mdooku
Posted - 2010.02.09 12:08:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Onyx Mdooku on 09/02/2010 21:34:08
Edited by: Onyx Mdooku on 09/02/2010 12:08:12
Thanks for the data... no wonder you burnt out!

Of course by exposing this specific information the information itself loses its value to due all the competition that will now appear in this niche.

S0lar Flare
Caldari
Ancestors Of The Half Ninjas
Posted - 2010.02.09 12:49:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Samroski
Hey I like this new trend in MD- where people are upfront with their trade insights. A refreshing change. Has inspired me to reveal all my secrets too- after I hit that 100b mark :)

Updating your orders 5 times a day is partly what got to you in the end. The ideal business/trade plan is one that works in the background, while you do more enjoyable stuff (what I am working on, and currently succeeding).


What got me in the end is broken game, and many of old players I played with leaving eve. I am happy that you still enjoy this game and I know many that do. but for some of us 4 years is enough Wink

Rykker Bow
Posted - 2010.02.09 13:08:00 - [11]
 

Sorry to see you go m8. But I'm glad you had the time to write this up. While it does seem a little labor intensive, which is prolly why you burned out, good info on trading is always welcome.

SetrakDark
DarkCorp Citizens Holdings
DarkCorp Citizens
Posted - 2010.02.09 13:12:00 - [12]
 

underwhelming

Eat Bunnies
Posted - 2010.02.09 15:22:00 - [13]
 


Sooo... Basically you put way too much time into a market niche with horrible returns compared to time spent... Congratulations.

I could think of countless things that'd pay more a day, take less investment - and less time.

But hey, at least you just killed the little potential it might have had.

Woohoo.

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2010.02.09 16:03:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: RAW23
Thanks for that!

What does the 5bil investment bring in per month on average?


4 Years and 100B in ISK and Assets.

2,083,333,333.33 Which I find hard to believe. Even if you started this the very second you started playing EVE, had the whole business setup and good to go where did you get the capital to begin with. Leading up to the capital it probably took 12 months to gain 5B ISK this way, enough to fully expose your business. Even with that fast plan you're monthly average is 2.77B per month.

I find it hard to believe that in some stations you'll have multiple BPOs all worth x amount. Just how many cruiser BPOs where you selling, 2-3 at a time? Because that's about all you can afford with 5B investment across all these stations.

The problem I have believing this is lets assume it's 3B per month Profit, and 8B per month in sales.
Four Accounts would be between 1B and 1.5B ISK per month in PLEXs. Over half the ISK would have been spent on Game Time, So his profit had to be more then 2-3B. More like 5B profit a month. That's double the investment, which means every BPO would have to have been sold for twice the cost. This is why I find it difficult to believe.

Now I'm not saying I don't believe he doesn't have the ISK or assets, just that it seems like an unreasonable amount if time and effort to build this "empire" when after a year of doing exactly what is described he could have done something else with his now 20-30B ISK.

If this is ALL you did in EVE then I'm sorry you did burn yourself out, maintaining that for four years when you could have done so much more and had more enjoyment is... disheartening.

Yarinor
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.09 17:01:00 - [15]
 

I suddently feel very good about my 200m/day

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2010.02.09 19:29:00 - [16]
 

Man you guys are a bunch of sad sad whiners.

The guy is trying to hand out some info/tips wich new players might find usefull and all you guys can say :'Meh i make more isk the you per hour' , 'No wonder you burned out doing so much work for this little isk'.

Jeez talk about nerd behaviour.Go play some monopoly and laugh at your 5 year old cousin who lost.

Allthough i will not use it myself OP nice to see you are giving away some pointers.


Marko box
Caldari
Targeted Aggression
Posted - 2010.02.09 20:23:00 - [17]
 

Its sad to see you leave afther all those years. Sad For the short time we flew together you sounded like someone who knows how to play this game properly. I hope you will give eve another chance in a few months or years... Come to our next gathering and we will maybe persuade you not to leave Smile

Althou i wouldnt give that kind of information publicly on the forum concering the way i make isk, i might say that you had really good bussines plan which gave you constant income.
How much time did you spend daily updating orders and keeping everything running?
Althou you gave a lot of information concering that market i feel that theres still a lot of oportunity for isk making and that theres more than what you told to it Rolling Eyes

nether void
Caldari
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.02.09 21:27:00 - [18]
 

Someone would seriously buy a T1 BPO with 0 ME for above NPC cost by like 30%? ... Why? Just put a character in a shuttle and autopilot while you play some rock band or go to the mall...

I guess cool that there are dumb people in this game. lol

Anyway wow grats at making 100 bil! That's pretty cool. =) Hope you find a better game!

Slavemaster
Posted - 2010.02.09 22:56:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Slavemaster on 09/02/2010 22:56:09
4 years working 24/7 and 100 bil in total, tsk tsk....
<-- Not impressed

Bye Bye

Hamno
The Hamno Corp
Posted - 2010.02.09 23:50:00 - [20]
 

Appreciate the look into the unresearched bpo market,


Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.02.09 23:54:00 - [21]
 

Cool, thanks for the info. I have thought about getting into that business but I don't currently have the assets to make it happen. Right now I'm only invested ~500M in the market and work very rarely. The profit is quite immense considering the amount of effort I put in. :)

-Liang

Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2010.02.10 01:36:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Grozen on 10/02/2010 01:37:21
There is some truth in that you can always find lazy people who are willing to pay just a bit more then normal in the big trade hubs for a bpo.However in my case that happens only once every 2-3months, because npc price is the best priceVery Happy
Gratz on finding new way to get 100b and thanks for the info but i will stick to my trade and procude system it works nice for me and i can have a nice can of life along the wayRazz

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2010.02.10 08:15:00 - [23]
 

That's a good writeup on how to trade. The downside with the specific info in the OP is that many people will do exactly that so the blueprint market won't go well.

However with that said, this is pretty much something you can apply to just about anything that has a demand (going to spoil it for you as well) - try skillbooks.

Years ago I did the same with freighter skillbooks, bought the racial ones off region, shipped to systems with demand, added 10M per book.

I wish you good times ahead with whatever you're up to Korvin, fly/walk safe and see you when you get back.

/c

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.02.10 09:35:00 - [24]
 

Quote:

That's a good writeup on how to trade. The downside with the specific info in the OP is that many people will do exactly that so the blueprint market won't go well.



That was probably part of his plan.
To p*ss off his historic competitors and make a grand leave in one move.

Angor
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2010.02.10 10:56:00 - [25]
 

Quote:
I have 70bil ISK + 30 bil in assets (before you ask all of that will be or is already gone).


how much wonga did u get for all that isk :)

Raiven Parker
The Athiest Syndicate
Posted - 2010.02.10 11:47:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: nether void
Someone would seriously buy a T1 BPO with 0 ME for above NPC cost by like 30%? ... Why? Just put a character in a shuttle and autopilot while you play some rock band or go to the mall...

I guess cool that there are dumb people in this game. lol

Anyway wow grats at making 100 bil! That's pretty cool. =) Hope you find a better game!


Or buy the bpo for 6 mil more and mine the time your ap would have taken while you take a dump and make 12 mil more. Not that I would ever mine but don't just assume that buying an item above market price is always the wrong way to go. Time is money aswell.

nether void
Caldari
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.02.10 17:03:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Raiven Parker
Originally by: nether void
Someone would seriously buy a T1 BPO with 0 ME for above NPC cost by like 30%? ... Why? Just put a character in a shuttle and autopilot while you play some rock band or go to the mall...

I guess cool that there are dumb people in this game. lol

Anyway wow grats at making 100 bil! That's pretty cool. =) Hope you find a better game!


Or buy the bpo for 6 mil more and mine the time your ap would have taken while you take a dump and make 12 mil more. Not that I would ever mine but don't just assume that buying an item above market price is always the wrong way to go. Time is money aswell.


I get what you're saying. I tell my friends the same thing in RL. Stop spending so much energy to pinch another 5 bucks from your budget. If you'd spend the same amount of energy on doing something to make more money, you'd increase your income by a lot more than 5 bucks a month.

Still, if I can AFK for 10 minutes and make 6 mil, I'm doing that. No overhead at all. Hell if I could just fly around EVE all night making 6 mil every 10 minutes, I probably would. No market analysis needed. No setting up any orders etc.

Probably better to liken this whole thing to the convenience store model. Sure the grocery store in the same shopping center has orange juice for a buck less, but do I really want to stand in line for 10 minutes behind someone with 200 items to save 1 dollar? Not really. lol

Back to the blueprint thing: Instead of buying an ME0 print for 30% above NPC, just buy a researched one at 30% above NPC. Chances are there's one or more on contract right now.

Vanlade
Amarr
Cruor Aquila
Posted - 2010.02.10 17:27:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Vanlade on 10/02/2010 17:26:57
Originally by: Korvin Eeex
Original Post


Thanks for taking the time to post.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.10 18:14:00 - [29]
 


No wonder you're burnt out, it really shows how much hard work people are prepared to put into making ISK. However there are easier ways. All power to your elbow for posting your experiences.

Alater Caedo
Posted - 2010.02.11 13:41:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Eat Bunnies

Sooo... Basically you put way too much time into a market niche with horrible returns compared to time spent... Congratulations.

I could think of countless things that'd pay more a day, take less investment - and less time.

But hey, at least you just killed the little potential it might have had.

Woohoo.


Originally by: SetrakDark
underwhelming


Originally by: Akita T
Sooo.... you played for roughly 4 years, still have 4 accounts ("but soon they'll be gone"), you have (probably) been doing this "specific thing" of your for at least one year if not two years, you needed to be online up to 5 times a day on each of your 8 trade characters to do it right... and all you got to show for is 100 bil ISK ?!?
No wonder you burned out.
You can relatively leisurely make 1 bil ISK per month with a single character on a single account in a single location logging in not even daily if you're smart about it.
But you weren't necessarily smart about it... you simply used brute force. Which, ok, granted, it worked, but look what it brought you - you feel like THE GAME makes you "work so hard for a little fun", when it was you all alone the one who was working itself so hard for no good reason whatsoever.



MD - Trolls trolling flamers flaming scammers trolling scammers flaming e-peen erectile dysfunction sufferers.

Laughing


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