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blankseplocked Carrier to Super-carrier line up. Minni "needs some work"
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Groot T
The Scope
Posted - 2010.02.08 21:43:00 - [1]

Edited by: Groot T on 09/02/2010 10:22:33
So, let me outline what I'm going on about here.

Motherships have had a name change to Super-carriers. This implies that they are burlier versions of their carrier counterparts.

Amarr, Archon - Aeon
Gallente, Thanatos - Nyx
Caldari, Chimera - Wyvern

All of these are completely linear, allow me to elaborate.

Amarr EHP Screeny
5.6x more shield, 8.0x more armor, 4.2(ish)x more Hull HP (RAW)
Armor Resist bonus is consistent in the range.
One additional slow to main tanking ability from carrier to super-
i.e. Bonus to tanking HP & slot formation for that tank.

Gallente EHP Screeny
5.4x more shield, 8.4x more raw armor, 4x more Hull HP (RAW).
DPS Bonus is consistant
One additional slot to main tanking ability from carrier to super-carrier(Lows)
i.e. Bonus to tanking HP & slot formation for that tank.

Caldari EHP Screeny
8x more shield, 5.9x more raw armor, 4.4x more Hull HP (RAW).
Shield resist bonus is consistent throughout the range.
One additional slot to main tanking ability from carrier to super-carrier (mids)
i.e. Bonus to tanking HP & slot formation for that tank.

Now, lets look at minmatar. EHP Screeny

Nidhoggur to Hel, entirely inconstant re: the trends above.
8.8x more shield, 5.3x more raw armor, 4.4x more Hull HP (RAW).
One LESS slot to main tanking ability from carrier to super-carrier (lows)
i.e. No such tanking HP bonus and a REDUCTION in slot-configuration for its tanking ability.

As such I state that there is an abnormality here and this needs to be addressed. The abnormalities here are;
Slot configuration
HP Bonus' through out the range.

I propose the slot configuration be changed to;
6 Highs
5 Mids
7 Lows

And the HP amounts to be;
5.2x Niddy shield, giving the Hel 585,500 raw Shield HP
8.2x Niddy armor, giving the Hel 992,500 raw Armor HP
4.1x Niddy Hull, giving the Hel 461,250 Raw Hull HP

If at the very least;
6 Highs
6 Mids
6 Lows

HP amounts;
7.0x Niddy shield, giving the Hel 787,000 raw Shield HP
7.0x Niddy armor, giving the Hel 787,000 raw Armor HP
4.1x Niddy Hull, giving the Hel 461,250 Raw Hull HP

Minnie range of carriers & super-carriers does not follow the trand of the other three races.
Hels is vastly inferior (tanking ability wise) in comparison to its peers
Niddys can be utilised as an effective shield or armor tanker. This is not reflected in the Hel.
The sub-standard thinking of "two shield tankers, two armor tankers" needs to be purged and the situation re-evaluated.
As such it needs balancing.

Thanks for your time & support.


EDITED to include the idea that Minnie should be flexible and proposing that the Hel should be a 100% dedicated armor tanker it too biased as such middle ground of 6/6/6 & even armor & Shield HP should be entertained (echoing that of the Nidhoggur)

Posted - 2010.02.08 21:45:00 - [2]

Agreed & supported.

Omega Will
Posted - 2010.02.08 21:46:00 - [3]

Yes I completely agree the Hel needs adjusting to be in-keeping with the other carrier to super-carrier range.

The Nova
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.02.08 21:49:00 - [4]

Indeed, Hel is far behind the other super carriers. Sort its HP/slots.

Jins Dragon

Posted - 2010.02.08 21:54:00 - [5]

Agreed, fully support Groot T's proposal.

Entropy Zero
Posted - 2010.02.08 21:55:00 - [6]

Couldn't agree more.

Sleep Deprivation
Posted - 2010.02.08 21:58:00 - [7]

Finally someone proposed it.

Regina Scintilla
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:03:00 - [8]

Edited by: Regina Scintilla on 08/02/2010 22:02:52
The Hel is too vulnerable to multiple doomsdays. A nicely fit armor Hel will only have around 33% of the effective HP of an Aeon. This needs changing.

Edit - supported.

Mr Bright
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:14:00 - [9]

Ya, CCP would have to give a very good reason NOT to buff it :( WTB Better hel's!

Posted - 2010.02.08 22:14:00 - [10]

Edited by: malet on 08/02/2010 22:20:08
Fully support this

The Hel needs a serious revamp to bring it into line


Posted - 2010.02.08 22:18:00 - [11]

Give the flying Flying Roof some lovin!

full support here =)

Trojan Trolls
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:24:00 - [12]


<3 Niddy & Hel 4eva

Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:25:00 - [13]

What do you expect from a giant rust bucket? That said, OP is correct in that the Hel does not follow the same trend as other super carriers.

However, considering the Hel has the second most shields and the second least armor, it should logically be shield tanked. Unless of course we are broaching the topic of capital shield tanks not being on par with capital armor tanks again.

Oghma Grianainech
Wise Guys
Exquisite Malevolence
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:26:00 - [14]

crusader king
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:28:00 - [15]

Edited by: crusader king on 08/02/2010 22:29:08
Edited by: crusader king on 08/02/2010 22:28:26
The need to sort this ship out has been going on for sometime. Personally, I taken the time to train up for triage, seeing as this ship will be responsible for helping to keep other moms/carriers alive with what is effectively half a tank,this makes the Hel an expensive waste of time. This thread really need to be taken notice of and something finally done.

Gaiden R
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:28:00 - [16]

i agree

lady manman
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:29:00 - [17]


sheree g
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:32:00 - [18]


NoMercy uk
The 8th Order
Mean Coalition
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:32:00 - [19]

agree & supported

Ministry of War

Posted - 2010.02.08 22:33:00 - [20]


Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:38:00 - [21]

I have a feeling that CCP will not be willing to switch the Hel to an armor buffer layout, but it would be nice. At the very least could you give the ship a worthwhile bonus?

Posted - 2010.02.08 22:40:00 - [22]

Agreed and supported.

Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2010.02.08 22:40:00 - [23]

Get's my vote

White Noise.
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:44:00 - [24]

The point here is clear as day. The Hel, compared to others has an imbalance that really needs to be balanced, as per the trend of others.

Vader Crane
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:46:00 - [25]

Supported. Down with minmatar hate! :)

Nikita Takeaway
Posted - 2010.02.08 22:55:00 - [26]

Agreed and supported :)

Jack Sparroxx
Posted - 2010.02.08 23:02:00 - [27]

more love to the slaves Cool

Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2010.02.08 23:12:00 - [28]

Agreed. There's no reason Minmatar need to be as disfunctional as they are right now.

Larkonis TrassIer
State Breast Inspectorate

Posted - 2010.02.09 00:29:00 - [29]

The Hel seems to have been overlooked when the slot layout of the Nid was changed some years ago from 5/6/5 to 5/5/6 meaning those Nid pilots looking to upgrade have to train shield skills (although any Minmatar pilot at that level who doesn't have them already should probably end his life).

Either give the Hel more shield HP (and possibly revert the Nid to its original slot layout to give Minmatar a full line up of caps geared towards shield tanking) or do as the OP suggested.

Lord Elminster
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.02.09 00:53:00 - [30]

Agreed. YARRRR!!

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