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Samantha U
Posted - 2010.02.06 12:02:00 - [61]
 

I understood the nature of the game before I subscribed and actually enjoyed playing something that didn't hold my hand, where I could use my wits and ability to solve problems to good use. It's a breath of fresh air compared to some games. If you have a situation you need to deal with, chances are the tools are available, all it requires is for you to use some initiative or common sense to find the means to solve the problem.

I don't grief rookies or pirate in low sec, but I'm defending EVE for the great game it is simply because it has that nietzschean element that appeals to me.

Che Molex
Posted - 2010.02.06 17:42:00 - [62]
 

Dear Pathetic TROLL:
Even I, a Total High Sec CareBear, is discussed by these Lies!

1) "...imagine this happening every. single. time."
MOVE !

I've mined 3+yrs all over the Amarr regions with little grief except near schools and market hubs.
I've cut through Low Sec and even done some missions and Jaspet Mining. I've lost a couple cruisers, that's it, so what.

2) re CCP and complaints: Dude, EVE is PvP by design,
But, you can do loads of stuff and rarely even be targeted.
I've gone AFK across EVE in a freighter full of Kernite many times, Mining Missions is 99.99% safe, never had mission loot probed out (only read it has been done in the very busiest L-4 Q+20 systems), I've had a HiSec POS up 4-6 wks three times, visited WH space, omg, there is not room to explain the 99% safe content of EVE.

3) Johnny Juice (troll) has done ZERO (0) agent work in game - 0.0 Sec Status - No Bio - just an ugly face and we get this Pity Party Post ?! - this guy's three old trial acct is for writing NOT playing.
Why don't you edit your post to include some lie about how you were ripped off on a contract or by some trade window scammer. That I could at least believe (as I laugh). The stuff you wrote just is not true.

But I give this reply not for you Troll.
I post here because I've quit EVE again and again looking for something better, Then...
Found it is WoW, PoBS, and STO that are non-sence BECAUSE there is so little risk, danger, and therefore little realism!!!

EVE is real contact football.
Not Flag-footbal or No-touch or No Score.
Real, play for keeps, get hurt and you sit till better Sport.

But EVE is not an back street gang fight or even a MMA cage match, High Sec has loads of limits on PvP and suicide gankers are very rare.

And, even as in RL US NFL 'football' there are position players who rarely get hurt. Again, there are 1000's of
safe and happy CareBears playing EVE and forum threads
explaining how to be one.

I post to tell peeps who have yet to try EVE - Dare !
The truth is even an industious CareBear can make enough ISK to play for free in a year or less. And the crazy part about CCP is they have continued to expand the game with legal PLEX's.

HOW? easy, peeps, like me, love the game so much they want more than free, they want the thrills of collecting hangers full of stuff -or- daring to control systems. Even with 1.5 Billion in cash ISK I pay-to-play because I Love collecting.

It is not "griefing" everytime peeps lose stuff, it is as PC Gamer said, typical EVE "Shenanigans", Best MMO of the Year.

PS: If you or anyone wants help enjoying EVE's Missions, Mining, Manufacturing, and Exploration with 99% safety ... I'm a real player (not a troll), contact me ingame. o/

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.02.06 20:02:00 - [63]
 


Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2010.02.06 21:09:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Elena Laskova
But ofc this means OP is right too. EvE is en excellent game if you're a griefer, or if you like being a victim.


Huh.. either you're incorrect or I'm doing something wrong and so is every other pilot I know who is not a griefer, not a victim, and enjoying the hell out of this game.

Chal0ner
Amarr
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.02.07 08:35:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Chal0ner on 07/02/2010 08:36:28
The main reason I play EVE is because "anything goes". That - and the fact that it too a very large degree is player driven. Anything you use in it someone built, in competition with other players. The essence of EVE is it's all the various forms of PvP - be it combat, economics or something else ...

Complaining that EVE is EVE is pretty fail, imho. Someone must have missed the basic facts about the game.

This is from an industry character currently living in 0.0. The possibility of making a ****load of iskies while at the same time facing the risk of getting blown up (or the chance of blowing someone else up) every day is great fun Very Happy

EVE is a sandbox with landmines ... deal with it ...

Elena Laskova
Posted - 2010.02.07 09:09:00 - [66]
 

@ Santiago Fahahrri: You're "cherry-picking" - you found one line in my post that could be misconsrued, added some fake evidence, and you imagine you've made a point.

Your attempt to suggest that there are no griefers can never succeed, because every new player to the game meets griefers. Smart ones can avoid the cosequences via rule one: "Don't trust anybody, ever". I found it very interesting that this is the most important thing for rookies to learn abut EvE, since it's the best imaginable filter to exclude people who value social interaction.

New players following the tutorials aren't likely to meet other players at all. Of the few who are experienced players, they're far more likely to be looking for slaves or killmails than social contact. If there were an appreciable number of nice people among the experienced players, they would make their presence felt.

EvE fills a definite niche in the MMO world, and it's positive in a way, because it removes the worst trash from other games. But as OP suggested: a game that's great for scumbags isn't necessary worth the effort for normal gamers.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2010.02.07 09:45:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Elena Laskova
*snip*since it's the best imaginable filter to exclude people who value social interaction.
You should just be picky about who your trust, that's all. I've been having a blast in all my corps.

Originally by: Elena Laskova
New players following the tutorials aren't likely to meet other players at all. Of the few who are experienced players, they're far more likely to be looking for slaves or killmails than social contact. If there were an appreciable number of nice people among the experienced players, they would make their presence felt.
Again you people go over fire to fit all of "us" into one giant basket of crap. If you actually left high sec and spent some time in 0.0 or low sec, and I mean really living there, you'd see that most of the people there aren't the rabid hyenas everyone in high seem hellbent on believing. Most of them are actually quite nice.

Problem is, the clueless (dumb) and whiny people huddle in high sec, afraid of all the "dangers" of unsecure space, and OF COURSE the ones wanting to prey on stupidity go there too. It's not so hard to figure out, is it?

Originally by: Elena Laskova
EvE fills a definite niche in the MMO world, and it's positive in a way, because it removes the worst trash from other games. But as OP suggested: a game that's great for scumbags isn't necessary worth the effort for normal gamers.
That's just low. The worst trash of "other games" are the ones that can go on a 10 minute ragefest over being ganked in World of Warcraft, a game where you lose NOTHING by being killed. It can involve real life threats and offensive words you never want to hear again.

People who are willing to make their stand and play the game by its rules in EVE, those I respect. People who do nothing but whine...not so much.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.02.07 09:48:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Elena Laskova

EvE fills a definite niche in the MMO world, and it's positive in a way, because it removes the worst trash from other games. But as OP suggested: a game that's great for scumbags isn't necessary worth the effort for normal gamers.


Since you appear to have a negative opinion of EVE, why are you still subscribed, or indeed why do you bother posting?

I like EVE simply because there are consequences for my actions. I've played a number of MMOs over the years and EVE epitomises the sandbox style of play best.
You get taught the basics, then get thrown into the sharkpool with all the other inhabitants. You can learn to succeed on your own, band together with other like-minded people trying to succeed (EVE University is a corp dedicated for this), or give up and quit.

EVE is designed for a niche market. If it's not your niche, vote with your wallet and just move on to your next game.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2010.02.07 09:51:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Marine HK4861
I like EVE simply because there are consequences for my actions. I've played a number of MMOs over the years and EVE epitomises the sandbox style of play best.
You get taught the basics, then get thrown into the sharkpool with all the other inhabitants. You can learn to succeed on your own, band together with other like-minded people trying to succeed (EVE University is a corp dedicated for this), or give up and quit.

EVE is designed for a niche market. If it's not your niche, vote with your wallet and just move on to your next game.
That, sir, was a beautifully put together post. I applaud you! I could not have said it better myself.

/bow

Elena Laskova
Posted - 2010.02.07 10:23:00 - [70]
 

@Marine HK4861

EvE is a sandbox, and as many have pointed put when trying to defend their exploitative and anti-social behavior, it accepts many play styles. Including mine, which is neither.

I play because I want to. You should be ashamed to suggest that I have no right to this choice.

Of course ganker trash don't see it this way ... in their eyes you're either oppressor or victim /lol. If this was a combat game it would be more fun, but it's PPPPPvP all the way - gangs of losers vs helpless victims.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.02.07 11:15:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Marine HK4861 on 07/02/2010 11:15:43
Originally by: Elena Laskova

EvE is a sandbox, and as many have pointed put when trying to defend their exploitative and anti-social behavior, it accepts many play styles. Including mine, which is neither.

I play because I want to. You should be ashamed to suggest that I have no right to this choice.



Where in my post did I suggest you have no right to play the game in the style you wish? I was merely questioning that since you appeared to have a negative opinion of the game, why were you paying to play it?

Originally by: Elena Laskova

Of course ganker trash don't see it this way ... in their eyes you're either oppressor or victim /lol. If this was a combat game it would be more fun, but it's PPPPPvP all the way - gangs of losers vs helpless victims.


As you've said yourself, the game is a sandbox - if something is irritating you in game, you have the option to go do something about it.

How you decide to do this is entirely up to you - you could organise your own gang of 'victims' and chase after them, join an anti-pirate corp, evade them with suitable ships or anything else you can devise.

Complaining about them on the forums and discouraging new players from trying out the game would be the least productive choice in my opinion.

Edit: fixed formatting

The AEther
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.02.07 11:39:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: The AEther on 07/02/2010 11:42:35

Remove these so-called "griefers", these "anti-social" players, these "gankers" who log on just to prey on their "victims" and to ruin their gaming experience, and suddenly those times where you did progress somewhere in EVE become much less rewarding, less meaningful, the whole road to the top stops being challenging. That's because you wouldn't know what it feels like to win if you have never lost. And you would never lose in this game if these ebil griefer people didn't make you lose. These griefers who are ruining the game for you one day are in fact enhancing your gaming experience on those other days when you do win. So you can choose to wallow in righteous indignation every time you get ganked or you can learn to see the bigger picture.

Elena Laskova
Posted - 2010.02.07 12:31:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Elena Laskova on 07/02/2010 12:50:17

@ The AEther

Of course it's the victim's fault. It always is /lol.

Of course it's good for a rookie to have their time wasted by ten high-SP players who get their fun by dealing out misery. Nothing is more instructive than unnecessary pain.

So we ask ourselves, what should the victim do to avoid being at fault?. Perhaps OP's advice wasn't wrong after all?

If any of you had a shred of self-respect, you'd use your gank-alts to keep 0.4 clear, instead of viewing a gank-alt with a huge tally of rookie-ship kills as a sign of superior play.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2010.02.07 14:20:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Elena Laskova
@ Santiago Fahahrri: You're "cherry-picking" - you found one line in my post that could be misconsrued, added some fake evidence, and you imagine you've made a point.

Your attempt to suggest that there are no griefers can never succeed, because every new player to the game meets griefers. Smart ones can avoid the cosequences via rule one: "Don't trust anybody, ever". I found it very interesting that this is the most important thing for rookies to learn abut EvE, since it's the best imaginable filter to exclude people who value social interaction.

New players following the tutorials aren't likely to meet other players at all. Of the few who are experienced players, they're far more likely to be looking for slaves or killmails than social contact. If there were an appreciable number of nice people among the experienced players, they would make their presence felt.

EvE fills a definite niche in the MMO world, and it's positive in a way, because it removes the worst trash from other games. But as OP suggested: a game that's great for scumbags isn't necessary worth the effort for normal gamers.


I wasn't suggesting there are no griefers. I am suggesting there are far more types of players in this game than the two groups you seem to be suggesting we all fall into - griefers or victims.

The advice I give to rookies is not "Don't trust anybody, ever". That's as myopic as the classic "you MUST train ALL learning first". I advise them to find a good corp early and to be very selective about what corp they join. Success in this game doesn't come from never trusting, it comes from finding a good crew of pilots who you can fly alongside with *gasp* mutual trust.

When I was a new pilot, I felt the presence of these apparently imaginary "nice veterans". I was fortunate to find a good corp based out in 0.0 who took me in and taught me the ropes. Flying alongside experienced and teamwork oriented pilots very early on taught me things that would have taken far longer to learn on my own including learning to see past the foolish "Don't trust anybody, ever" mentality.

Tesco Yogurt
Posted - 2010.02.07 20:26:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Tesco Yogurt on 07/02/2010 20:28:02
This thread is great! Very informative and helpful for people wishing to see what the differences between bad players and good ones are.

@Elena: While you have the right to play any game you want since it's your money, I question the intelligence in choosing to pay for a game you clearly do not enjoy as stated by yourself in numerous posts. Could be that you like griefing yourself by playing the game. That's fine too. I mean, it's not as if when you started, the game was all warm and fuzzy and ccp/players changed it to the environment it is now. (I too, played chess for a bit and decided that I hated white and black squares, but instead of not playing chess, i'll just whine about it until they change it to pink and purple squares. (edit: Also, the only definition of 'griefing' in this game is the one given by CCP. Don't agree with it? Write a petition to get it changed.)

@OP: Discourage people all you want. Posts like yours are pretty funny to read. Kinda like a journal or 'Confessions of a bad eve player'. Certainly I know I don't write essays on a game if I suck terribly at it. It's ok though, not everyone is good at everything, and just like I'm not good at FPS games, you're pretty bad at this game. The main thing is to understand that IT'S OK TO BE BAD AT A GAME.

Tsear Shadowstalker
Posted - 2010.02.07 21:00:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Elena Laskova
Edited by: Elena Laskova on 07/02/2010 12:50:17
If any of you had a shred of self-respect, you'd use your gank-alts to keep 0.4 clear, instead of viewing a gank-alt with a huge tally of rookie-ship kills as a sign of superior play.


What kind of moron would gank a rookie ship? What kind of idiot rookie would give a **** about it?

Tason Hyena
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.02.07 21:47:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: The AEther
Edited by: The AEther on 07/02/2010 11:42:35

Remove these so-called "griefers", these "anti-social" players, these "gankers" who log on just to prey on their "victims" and to ruin their gaming experience, and suddenly those times where you did progress somewhere in EVE become much less rewarding, less meaningful, the whole road to the top stops being challenging. That's because you wouldn't know what it feels like to win if you have never lost. And you would never lose in this game if these ebil griefer people didn't make you lose. These griefers who are ruining the game for you one day are in fact enhancing your gaming experience on those other days when you do win. So you can choose to wallow in righteous indignation every time you get ganked or you can learn to see the bigger picture.



Not really. EVE isn't balanced enough for that to be any more than a nuisance. If we are talking griefing or heavily unbalanced fights, they don't add anything to the play experience at all, and the common advice to dealing with them is not playing along. Using alts, playing station games, dropping corp, etc.

Risk doesn't add that much except when people opt in to it, which is why you don't see people going to mine in lowsec, and why every alliance in 0.0 is NBSI. Progress is a reward in itself, and mining for example doesn't become any more meaningful when you get blown up every 5th ship than when you don't.

The AEther
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.02.07 22:03:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: The AEther on 07/02/2010 22:05:13
Originally by: Elena Laskova
@ The AEther

Of course it's the victim's fault. It always is /lol.

Of course it's good for a rookie to have their time wasted by ten high-SP players who get their fun by dealing out misery. Nothing is more instructive than unnecessary pain.

So we ask ourselves, what should the victim do to avoid being at fault?. Perhaps OP's advice wasn't wrong after all?

If any of you had a shred of self-respect, you'd use your gank-alts to keep 0.4 clear, instead of viewing a gank-alt with a huge tally of rookie-ship kills as a sign of superior play.


Where you see anti-social gankers and victims I see people enjoying a competitive game competing against the most resourceful opponent you can find in an MMO - other players.

It is really like sports irl. When you see a strong team utterly decimate a weaker team you don't sit there and go "OMG, these guys are such griefers, ganking these poor noobs who haven't learned how to play well out of the field". When there is a match between a really strong team competing with a weak team you don't cry foul and call the stronger team jerks for entering a match that they are 97% likely to win - you say "good try" to the weaker team. But when it comes to a computer game, you refuse to apply this logic. Your competitors have become bad people to you, some kind of societal rejects with emotional and mental issues. I mean I understand that it is easier to come to terms with your losses by putting your opponent down and imagining him to be some 30 y.o. psycho with no life living in mother's basement, but do you realize how silly you sound posting this?

The end result of competition in EVE is that nobody really gets hurt, no children go starving, nobody really dies or gets scammed in real life. The losing team or individuals just lose some of their time and experience a setback in their progression though the game. Many players out there understand this and willingly engage in this competition. And if anyone breaks the rules of the game any newbie can open up petitions and contact the GMs about it.

And yes it is good for rookies to engage high-sp players. I have been in rookie corporations that got repeatedly wardec'd. The guys who came out to fight lost ISK, ships, implants so their skill progression was slower. But in the end they had fun and subscribed to the game. The guys who sat in station ship-spinning through the wars quit EVE.

When you say "have their time wasted" you mean that the ultimate goal for newbies in this game is to accumulate SP, money, and resources ad infinitum. Anything preventing them from doing that is correspondingly an evil. This might come as news to you that the goal of this game is not to continuously accumulate resources. It's to have fun while competing against other players. People who don't enjoy that and want to simply build xp and wallet ad infinitum and never ever lose any of it via player-vs-player competition are welcome to play a myriad of other games out there because EVE is just not the game they are looking for.

shivasdarth
Posted - 2010.02.07 23:57:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: shivasdarth on 08/02/2010 00:01:00
the only thing u newbies need to know is that CCP doesn't give a rats ass about you or your possessions. they will not give you any benefit of the doubt and unless you have hard-copy proof, even when it's they're fault, forget it. you will get nothing. and it will usually take them weeks to figure it out. their support centers are located off shore, (you'll recognize the accent even in the typing). this may be their downfall, for people are leaving this game with good reason and CCP has absolutely NO CUSTOMER APPRECIATION.

good luck (i doubt it)
your friend
darthshiva

Samantha U
Posted - 2010.02.08 00:36:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: shivasdarth
Edited by: shivasdarth on 08/02/2010 00:01:00
the only thing u newbies need to know is that CCP doesn't give a rats ass about you or your possessions. they will not give you any benefit of the doubt and unless you have hard-copy proof, even when it's they're fault, forget it. you will get nothing. and it will usually take them weeks to figure it out. their support centers are located off shore, (you'll recognize the accent even in the typing). this may be their downfall, for people are leaving this game with good reason and CCP has absolutely NO CUSTOMER APPRECIATION.

good luck (i doubt it)
your friend
darthshiva


By 'offshore' do you mean not in your country? This may be because they're Icelandic.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.02.08 00:42:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: shivasdarth
about you or your possessions.

You mean "you or their possessions". Everything ingame belongs to CCP, including your character and its possessions.

Originally by: shivasdarth
they will not give you any benefit of the doubt

Great thinking Sherlock. Any 'benefit of the doubt' will soon be abused by everyone and their grandma.

Originally by: shivasdarth
their support centers are located off shore, (you'll recognize the accent even in the typing).

That's false. Support centers are located in Reykjavik and Atlanta. There may be smaller centers in countries with localized clients (pretty sure there's one in Germany).

Originally by: shivasdarth
for people are leaving this game with good reason

EVE is pretty much the only MMO which has been growing consistently since it started.

Tason Hyena
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.02.08 01:48:00 - [82]
 

Quote:
It is really like sports irl. When you see a strong team utterly decimate a weaker team you don't sit there and go "OMG, these guys are such griefers, ganking these poor noobs who haven't learned how to play well out of the field".


It's not the best analogy, because sports usually self-segregates by skill. If a professional sports team infiltrated your local baseball league, and forced you to play with them with money on the line it might be a little closer to the truth.

TBH engagements often being one-sided doesn't help either. Too many times the only options are run away or lose your ship, because of the nature of open-world pvp. Sport has to be balanced, even accounting for weaker players, to be fun. No one plays basketball with 6 people on 1 team and 1 on the other.

I'm not saying it can't be fun, but the point is you have to opt in to PvP for it to be enjoyable. Not just playing the game, but you need to choose to embrace PvP and seek it for it to be meaningful. It isn't when you aren't, which is a lot of the incidental PvP you get when traveling or wardecced.


Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.02.08 02:43:00 - [83]
 

I'm mainly a miner/industrialist, though I also do missions, and will group PvP to protect me corporation and its interests.

The first time my jetcan was flipped, I was really impressed. The cruiser used a MicroWarp drive to repeatedly knock my ship out of tractor beam range. I left the area and returned in an Industrial. As the thief was gone I reclaimed all my ore, returned to the station, and waited-out the aggression timer.

The second time my jetcan was flipped, I again returned to the station to get my Industrial. As I landed back on grid, I noticed another Industrial marked as a thief leaving the grid. He had taken a good amount of my ore, but not all of it. I reclaimed the rest of my ore, returned to the station, and waited-out the aggression timer.

I then left the system looking for a less busy system (fewer people in local than the number of asteroid belts). I found a 0.5 system where I happily mined away. I've never had a jetcan flipped again.

I now live in w-space which is 0.0 meaning anything goes. It isn't uncommon for me to play a game of cat and mouse (I'm usually the mouse) against potential gankers. I've come close to losing Hulks and an Orca, but to date this mouse hasn't lost.

I own a Charon freighter, and I frequently haul cargo worth about 1 billion or so through some of the most hisec-ganker infested gates in EVE. I've never been attacked, though I have been locked and scan several times.

I own a Crane Blockade Runner Transport, and I frequently go through lowsec as I take shortcuts to trade hubs. The only system on my avoid list is Rancer, as it is notorious for smartbomb gatecamps. Once after jumping through a gate, I came out in the middle of a large (20+ ships) all red gatecamp. When I went to cloak I got the message, something like: "You can't do that right now, as X's Heavy Interdictor is within 2,000 m". As there was no escape, I just made a run for it: I began to warp, activated my MWD and all my shield modules, overheated all my modules, and... I got clean away without ever getting locked.

I haven't yet lost a ship to another player. I've come really close though. Last time it was when I was PvPing and made the stupid mistake of warping into our own mobile warp disruptor bubble on a gate rather than to the scout 100 km off the gate. I got away with 96% structure, as I PvP in ECM boats (currently a Scorpion battleship). I learned my lesson and won't do that again!

Recently I did the Caldari epic arc solo, and one of the missions requires going into nulsec. The LAST gate was camped of course, so I simply waited them out while I made safe-spot bookmarks all over the system. They smack-talked me in local, but I just ignored them and never responded. Once they left, I waited some more expecting that they were just camping the other side of the gate. Sure enough they soon came back, smack-talked some more, and left again. After an hour I DECIDED TO RISK IT, and warped to the gate and jumped. The area was clear, so I warped to my destination, claimed my 40 million ISK mission reward, and returned to hisec unscathed.

So all I can say to the OP is that one of us must be playing EVE wrong.


Zartanic
Posted - 2010.02.08 03:15:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 08/02/2010 03:20:16


Originally by: Johnny Juice
Thanks everyone, for confirming all my comments in the first post. The whole OP was to warn new and potential new players that this game is specifically geared towards gankers, and you guys have just proven it beyond any doubt. I wasn't complaining, I wasn't even always talking from personal experience. I was warning people who are not total a*s-holes about what total a*s-holes are playing this game. And again, you guys have proven my point most excelently. I'll be using this thread to warn anyone I can reach, by posting links here from anywhere I can make posts. Thank you for having made my job so incredibly easy.

Another point I made in the OP, was that CCP is actively supporting griefing, trolling, ganking and ore-theft. The whole game is so favoravely skewed towards abhorrent, anti-social behaviour that it's hard to imagine that it's made for anything else. This point, you've also proven beyond doubt.

Have you guys ever concidered that being able to do something doesn't mean doing it is a good thing? Also, just the fact that you guys are ganging up on me like this, and still not being able to get a coherent point across is just another point against you.

Lastly, some douche made the point that eve=RL, this is stupid (straight up ret*rded, in fact), because nowhere in the civilized world can you steal, kill and destroy with no danger of repercussions. In RL we have rules and people to enforce those rules, and no whining about carebearism is getting you around that point.


You want a coherant point? You're moaning about a game without understanding it. You don't understand it so you don't realise what people are telling you. Trying to explain EVE to you would be like trying to teach calculus to my dog, it would be pointless. Most players either get EVE in the first week or quit.

If you don't like the game just go play something else.

I have never once been griefed in EVE. I never grief either but I don't care if people want to. I've never been griefed for the simple reason I learn from my mistakes and I enjoy the fact people would happily try and make my game experience a misery. So I never let them. It gives me a buzz other games never could. If you can't grasp that and learn to deal with it you're in the wrong game. Maybe you should look at your aggressive and imperious attitude before you start blaming others.

I came across a lot more nasty, selfish, stupid, lazy and arrogant players in WOW than I ever did playing EVE. This game filters those players out, seems you slipped through the net.


Johnny Lurch
Minmatar
Professional Dockers
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2010.02.08 05:11:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Tason Hyena
I'm not saying it can't be fun, but the point is I have to opt in to PvP for it to be enjoyable. Not just playing the game, but I need to choose to embrace PvP and seek it for it to be meaningful. It isn't when I'm not, which is a lot of the inherent PvP you get when traveling or wardecced.


Fixed it since you're not speaking for all of us. In EVE, when you log in you opt in for PvP. There's no "OK I'm ready now" button that flags you. Not that kind of game. I notice that it's those who see PvP as an interruption to their game rather than an inherent part of the game that tend to have these rage issues.

Elena Laskova
Posted - 2010.02.08 05:26:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Elena Laskova on 08/02/2010 06:07:35
Originally by: Tesco Yogurt
@Elena: While you have the right to play any game you want since it's your money, I question the intelligence in choosing to pay for a game you clearly do not enjoy as stated by yourself in numerous posts. Could be that you like griefing yourself by playing the game. That's fine too.
<......>
(edit: Also, the only definition of 'griefing' in this game is the one given by CCP. ....

I play the game because I enjoy it. Unlike the brainwashed "elite" of EvE though, I don't think it's perfect just because I enjoy it. So I don't resort to the "go back to Hello Kitty"-style of response as a substitute for a reasoned argument.
And FWIW there's a consistent theme in my posts (along with their being amusing to write of course). If you read and understood a few of them you'll see what I react to, though probably not why.

"Griefing" (like "PvP") is a common MMO gaming term that has been weirdly redefined in EvE. This is the only game I've ever heard of where reducing the market price of something PvP. Not even Second Life would sink so low. In every other game, PvP implies combat.

Every MMO gamer knows what griefing means, and it isn't "behavior not allowed by the game's EULA". Changing the name doesn't change the action it describes.

It's a great shame the "Whats so bad about goonfleet" thread was moved, because it was the funniest thread ever. Goonfleet's sins, as described by hordes of outraged "EvE good guys" (/lol), were exactly the normal activities that rookies are exposed to: lying, cheating, ganking, stealing, raw comments in chat channels and so on. The dissonance between what you all pretend you're here for, and what you actually do, is half the fun of posting in the EvE forums. The average level of discussion about the game's nature is like listening to ceationists using pseudo-science to prove that EvE was created from the jawbone of an assyrian in 4004 BC.

Originally by: Tsear Shadowstalker
What kind of moron would gank a rookie ship? What kind of idiot rookie would give a **** about it?
My thoughts exactly Shadowstalker. Why are the 0.4 systems that L1 agents send players to the most heavily patrolled in all of lowSec? The likely answer is that it's PPPPPvPer ganker trash who get a special kick from wasting a rookie's time.

And why shouldn't the rookie care? If they're gamers, they're thinking "is this the kind of loser I'll meet in every single Corp I join?". If they're natural material for EvE, they're crying over the hit to their lifetime K/D ratio, and not looking forward to the recommended grovelling to the ganker trash in the hope that they'll deign to provide some PvP pointers (as if you need skill for PPPPPPvP against rookies /lol).

Cyenwulf
Posted - 2010.02.08 07:51:00 - [87]
 

It seems your having trouble getting into Eve.. maybe this guide will help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkzv-3vJn4w

Tesco Yogurt
Posted - 2010.02.08 07:53:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Tesco Yogurt on 08/02/2010 08:06:31
Originally by: Elena Laskova
I play the game because I enjoy it. ... If you read and understood a few of them you'll see what I react to, though probably not why.


You enjoy it? Really? REALLY?!? The only consistent thing I see in your posts so far have been whining, more whining and again more whining about the fact the people can and will shoot whoever they want or feel like. Looking at your post history just shows you to be bitter and doesn't make it look like you enjoy this game at all. In fact, if you genuinely do, and think it's not perfect, you'd be making a lot more constructive posts to improve the game rather than whining constantly, in each and every single post.

In fact, the majority of your posts, especially those in the Newbie section seem to consistently hand out bad, really bad, advice to new players. That or assume that everyone is like you and will not enjoy the game for what it is.

Originally by: Elena Laskova
"Griefing" (like "PvP") is a common MMO gaming term that has been weirdly redefined in EvE. This is the only game I've ever heard of where reducing the market price of something PvP. Not even Second Life would sink so low. In every other game, PvP implies combat.

Every MMO gamer knows what griefing means, and it isn't "behavior not allowed by the game's EULA". Changing the name doesn't change the action it describes.


PVP stands for 'player versus player'. I'm sorry if you insist on entrenching yourself in the mindset of other generic MMOs, but it's not really any of our faults. The way I see it, the definitions of 'PVP' and 'griefing' in a game are defined by the rules set by that game. In most other games, PVP or player vs player type of interactions are largely limited to combat, so I can see how you might misunderstand the term. The thing is, activities construed as griefing in other games may not necessarily be so in EVE-O, due to the very nature of the game itself. Scamming, extortion, piracy etc are all within the rules of the game, and are part of the game AS MARKETED BY CCP. As such, only THEIR definition matters, not what other players who aren't playing the game they made define it as.

Originally by: Elena Laskova
And why shouldn't the rookie care? If they're gamers, they're thinking "is this the kind of loser I'll meet in every single Corp I join?". If they're natural material for EvE, they're crying over the hit to their lifetime K/D ratio, and not looking forward to the recommended grovelling to the ganker trash in the hope that they'll deign to provide some PvP pointers (as if you need skill for PPPPPPvP against rookies /lol).


Instead of projecting your own way of thinking on others, maybe try looking at things from a different point of view. Linkage Also, grow up. Name calling is pretty juvenile behaviour from someone who is pretending to have an intelligent discussion. Ganker trash? Lowlife griefers? Losers? It's people like you that cause all the hate in this world. Someone doing things you don't agree with, or different to you, merits all the insults you're hurling? I can see why racism and other forms of discrimination are so rampant with idiots like you running around.

Typed out a bunch of stuff to answer each point raised by your post, but then I can't be arsed to mess around with character limits. Also, I realized that everything I want to say has been said to you before and pretty much ignored, so you're most likely trolling for responses like mine. That or you just don't "get it", which is fine. Not everyone does, but most of them just stop playing without kicking up a fuss.

edit: Looking back at your post history, I take back the 'constantly whining' part of my posts. You pretty much just sound like someone who either genuinely doesnt 'get it' but thinks he does, or a pretty successful troll.

Androgine
Posted - 2010.02.08 09:12:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Johnny Juice
Originally by: Chribba
tbh I hear these stories now and then, and they usually pop up after "OP" has smacktalked, or in some other way ****ed off the aggressors to make them hunt them over and over again.


That's not the case here, nor in most of the cases I've heard about. I NEVER provoke. I NEVER talk "smack". I hardly ever even talk in Local, and I NEVER initiate a conversation with someone I don't know (unless it's to warn them of ore thieves in the area). And there's no bloody reason why I should. Why the hell would I want to detract from other peoples enjoyment of the game for no reason? My parents raised me, you see. Not like you gankers and griefers who obviously have no respect for other people, and no morals at all.

Also, it's worth noting that I personally haven't been ganked like this for a long long time (curiously enough, solo griefers stay away when they have a fair fight on their hands). That's not why I made this post. I've been hanging out in Jita for a bit lately, and there are dozens (literally) of gankers just hanging around the stations and gates just waiting for new players to prey upon. This in a 1.0 sec system, so this blows your low sec. theory out of the water.

Also, whenever (100% of the times) I've been threatened by gankers, gate campers and griefers, it's been COMPLETELY unprovoked. Most of the time I had just warped to a gate, and the second I came out of warp, I had 4-5 people target locking me. And this is the story I hear over and over again.

...

No, they can't simply move to a more quiet system. I've been practically nomadic in this game, trying to find a quiet area to mine, but no matter where I go, after a while (often just minutes), an ore-thief always comes along.

...

Yes, yes. I know ridicule is always the first option for you trollers. Problem is, that just cements my original point, that this game is full of people who only respect themselves, and that the devs of this game actively supports that kind of behaviour.


The fact that you have replied to the responses here tells me that maybe, just maybe, your post is not a troll. Even if it is, hey, replying here beats working :)

Anyway, yes, you're right, this game doesn't punish griefers and gankers per se. But that's the point of it. The punishments, and indeed pretty much all the content, are done by other players. Joining a corp will help you exact revenge, should that be your wish.

I don't know how new you are, but there are things that you can do to protect yourself. You mention mining into a jetcan. I suggest using secure containers as they are password-protected (by you) and generally speaking, can not be broken into. They do not hold as much stuff as jetcans, but hey-ho, you win some, you lose some. For ganks and gate camps, etc. learn to use the directional scanner, learn to use scan probes, learn to use bookmarks to make safe spots, and experiment with warping to 100km off a gate you suspect has nasties hanging around it :)

Finally if all the replies here seem a little insensitive, it's because of the number of people who post genuine trolls about this same subject, and the number of people who refuse to appreciate this aspect of Eve. It can, I'm certain you'll agree, be a little wearing.

Anyway, good deed done for the day. Where did you say you mined again? ;)

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2010.02.08 10:18:00 - [90]
 

Anything bad that happens to you in Eve is YOUR OWN FAULT one way or another and could have been prevented in 99% of all cases by not beeing lazy, ignorant or just plain stupid.

Yes, the game is harsh and is not suited for everyone.


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