open All Channels
seplocked Warfare & Tactics
blankseplocked Caldari missile boat viability?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Iaoth
Posted - 2010.02.04 15:32:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Iaoth on 04/02/2010 15:32:52
I am currently finishing training the last of the missile support skills to V. I've been told by some that I've wasted my time, that Caldari missile boats are fail. What say the general audience?

dtyk
Posted - 2010.02.04 15:45:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: dtyk on 04/02/2010 15:50:16
You've been listening to someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. The only thing missiles are bad for is large long range gang pvp. For small gangs (when the targets don't pop instantly when locked) or at short ranges (when missiles take at most a couple seconds to get to the target), they are good.
The problem with RRBS fleets is that caldari generally shield tank. A scorpion can fit an ok armor tank though, since it doesn't need to save lows for damage mods like the actually armor tanking BSs. A rokh is a sniper, so the question of tank is kinda meh anyway (but then, neither of these is a missile ship really...) But a raven can be fit for lower tank but huge gank even if you throw in a couple of armor mods.
And most fleets/gangs of smaller ships fit shield tanks anyway. So there's no problems with missiles unless you want to be in a large sniping fleet with them.

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2010.02.04 15:46:00 - [3]
 

all ships have their pro's and cons.

Yes as a missile user you have to wait to deal damage, but you also can choose what damage type you deal, dont have to worry about tracking/velocities too much.

(Dont use Rockets atm though)

I think the biggest thing about Caldari ships is they are shield tanks where most fleets will be armour tanks.

Iaoth
Posted - 2010.02.04 15:47:00 - [4]
 

That is why I am asking here. I found the comment rather hard to digest. Especially after training nearly 3 months straight just on the support skills. 2 of them alone were almost a month each.


Vincent Death
Inglorious-Basterds
Posted - 2010.02.04 16:26:00 - [5]
 

If you were prepared to spend such a large chunk of time getting your skills to V you must have been a fan of missile boats in the first place. Who cares if your fotm, if you like it fly it.

James'Tiberius Kirk
Posted - 2010.02.04 16:55:00 - [6]
 

They are talking rubbish.

Yes, Missile boats have a few drawbacks. They also have some incredible advantages over guns.

There are many incredible damage dealing and effective PVP ships that use missiles such as the Torp Raven and HAM Drake.

And also missiles are excellent at PVE situations.

Where missiles tend to fall down at the moment, is at the Frigate Sized level, mainly with Rockets. And this is basically because they need to be fixed. Above frigate level, they are devastating and with all support skills to 5 you will be hitting hard.

I would say at the moment really, anyone who trained blasters has wasted their time more than Missiles in the current climate.

Iaoth
Posted - 2010.02.04 17:02:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: James'Tiberius Kirk
They are talking rubbish.

Yes, Missile boats have a few drawbacks. They also have some incredible advantages over guns.

There are many incredible damage dealing and effective PVP ships that use missiles such as the Torp Raven and HAM Drake.

And also missiles are excellent at PVE situations.

Where missiles tend to fall down at the moment, is at the Frigate Sized level, mainly with Rockets. And this is basically because they need to be fixed. Above frigate level, they are devastating and with all support skills to 5 you will be hitting hard.

I would say at the moment really, anyone who trained blasters has wasted their time more than Missiles in the current climate.


This comment confuses me, only because I never saw the need for rockets. On my Kestrel I use 4 T2 standard launchers. Did I miss something about rocktes, was there a use that I could not see?

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.02.04 17:24:00 - [8]
 

Yeah, it's related to the extra range of SMLs not being particularly useful if you expect to operate within tackle range and the difficulty of fitting much else on a Kestrel after fitting 4x SML IIs. The existence of the AML Caracal is also a factor.

Iaoth
Posted - 2010.02.04 17:30:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Yeah, it's related to the extra range of SMLs not being particularly useful if you expect to operate within tackle range and the difficulty of fitting much else on a Kestrel after fitting 4x SML IIs. The existence of the AML Caracal is also a factor.


Tackle range isn't of interest to me. I fly in small gangs, others tackle. Nobody does solo work anymore anyway.

The price difference between the Kessie and the krackle, plus the slowness of the cruiser over the frigates makes the Kessie more attractive to me.

Different strokes, I suppose, but I never saw any interest in the rockets. Not enough damage to bother with in my opinion.


Julian Darklight
Posted - 2010.02.04 17:37:00 - [10]
 

missle boats do enormous damage. however thier ETA on target leavs somethin to be desired. an i use guns on my caldari ships for the main reason that i like a challenge an missles dont take as much skill. however, whoever told u missles were fail is a fool or just hates missles. i know i do. lol but tehy are far form useless

Smabs
Posted - 2010.02.05 01:58:00 - [11]
 

Missile boats are just fine. If you've trained all the support skills to V then I'd say your missile boats would be pretty awesome.

The advantages of missiles are that they're capless, aren't susceptible to tracking disruption, have an extremely long range with no damage falloff and are pretty easy to use (you don't have to worry so much about transversal). On the downside you have delayed damage and will on average be doing slightly less damage than a similar class of gunboat. Caldari missile boats work very well in smaller gangs.

As for rockets, well, they're supposed to be like a frigate sized HAM. Sadly the damage is too low and the explosion velocity isn't good enough to hit other frigates properly. I'm living in the hope that they fix rockets one day.

Taudia
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2010.02.05 10:29:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Iaoth
Edited by: Iaoth on 04/02/2010 15:32:52
I am currently finishing training the last of the missile support skills to V. I've been told by some that I've wasted my time, that Caldari missile boats are fail. What say the general audience?



Are we talking fleet or small gang pvp? Fleets are most often based around guns and thus missiles are at a disadvantage (not drake fleets ofc. but they're not that common anyway). In small gang pvp I am a big fan of heavy missile drakes and torp ravens and atm in corp we have a newer player who's having success with solo caracal (I have no clue why it works, but he is getting kills).

The conception that caldari and missiles suck at pvp is prevalent partly because missiles used to be worse in some aspects and partly because they have the best pve boats and thus a fair chunk of people beginning to pvp or who are dragged on ops by their corp will be flying caldari and badly at that.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2010.02.05 15:29:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Iaoth

This comment confuses me, only because I never saw the need for rockets. On my Kestrel I use 4 T2 standard launchers. Did I miss something about rockets, was there a use that I could not see?



The use of rockets is that when combined with the caldari range bonus and good skills they can hit from the very edge of scrambler range with no falloff or tracking issues, ideal for use on faster frigates like the hookbill.

Rockets were one of the first weapons in the game and were good in the past, though the current iteration sucks. There have been hints that this will change and I'm hoping for a rebalance when T3 frigates arrive.

I'm also hoping they fix the hawk one day, perhaps eve is making me delusional.

The various caracal hulls, blackbird, rook, scorp, drake and torp raven are all good ships for small gangs so you will be rewarded for your specialization by having more firepower in these ships.

As a bonus you'll have a whole new world of tactics to explore when you do train for guns.

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.02.05 23:08:00 - [14]
 

The Drake is anything but useless, excelent as a solo ship with both HAM's and HML's, great as a small gang ship, and works pretty well as part of an antisupport group for larger fights

Platoon Sergeant
Posted - 2010.02.05 23:51:00 - [15]
 

Missiles are better than most people will admit. They might do less damage than guns, but their damage is considerably more reliable. If a missile user brings FOFs, they can't even be jammed out.

And as someone that enjoys both missile and gunboats in pvp, I wouldn't say guns are more challenging either. While a player flying a Harbinger might have to watch their tracking, a player flying a Drake might have to estimate how much damage they have in the air and whether or not they should preempt a switch to secondary. Additionally, it's not like a knowledge of tracking and falloff is lost in a missile user, since the flip side of maximizing outgoing damage is minimizing incoming damage.

Grut
The Protei
Posted - 2010.02.06 09:23:00 - [16]
 

Its more weapon systems being fail then all missiles.

Rockets - fail
Lights - OK
HAMs - Good
HMLs - Good
Torps - Good
Cruise - Fail

Aslong as your not trying to go close range in a friggie or medium / long range in a BS your ok.

Ships worth mentioning are
Drake - its uber, one of the best if not the best sub bs combat hulls.
Rook - need no more introduction.
Tengu - expensive but basically the best t3.
Cerb - good but only in very specific situations
Caracal - cheap and cheerful good anti friggie.
Raven - good but situational - rocks in small close range gangs without rr. Most rrbs gangs will be armour so a ravens not a good choice. The failness of cruise mean its no good at range either.

And one ship that hasn't been mentioned so far - the Typoon, its really rather good. Quick to crosstrain for and lets you spam torps to your hearts content in an rrbs gang.


Yuki Sanada
Caldari
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2010.02.06 11:52:00 - [17]
 

For the guys that are telling you that, I'd like to point out this:

Win.

Taudia
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2010.02.06 13:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Grut

And one ship that hasn't been mentioned so far - the Typoon, its really rather good. Quick to crosstrain for and lets you spam torps to your hearts content in an rrbs gang.




The topic is "Caldari missile boat viability?", hence the lack of phoon ^^.

Oddymandius
Minmatar
Red Federation
Posted - 2010.02.06 16:06:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Oddymandius on 06/02/2010 16:33:49
Originally by: Iaoth

Tackle range isn't of interest to me. I fly in small gangs, others tackle. Nobody does solo work anymore anyway.

Perhaps you'll like:

[Kestrel, New Setup 1]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Co-Processor II

1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Small Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

Standard Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I


107 DPS from ~40km; 2938 EHP with the invuln overloaded. Requires the Ancillary Current Router rig and good fitting skills. Basically never requires you to put yourself in harm's way.

Rockets suck v.s. frigates, but anything larger will take much closer to EFT damage because of the way missile damage reduction is calculated (the tiny explosion radius of a rocket will make up for the low explosion velocity). And in a gang where a target is likely going to be webbed and scrammed they do fine even against frigs.

James'Tiberius Kirk
Posted - 2010.02.06 17:22:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Iaoth
Originally by: James'Tiberius Kirk
They are talking rubbish.

Yes, Missile boats have a few drawbacks. They also have some incredible advantages over guns.

There are many incredible damage dealing and effective PVP ships that use missiles such as the Torp Raven and HAM Drake.

And also missiles are excellent at PVE situations.

Where missiles tend to fall down at the moment, is at the Frigate Sized level, mainly with Rockets. And this is basically because they need to be fixed. Above frigate level, they are devastating and with all support skills to 5 you will be hitting hard.

I would say at the moment really, anyone who trained blasters has wasted their time more than Missiles in the current climate.


This comment confuses me, only because I never saw the need for rockets. On my Kestrel I use 4 T2 standard launchers. Did I miss something about rocktes, was there a use that I could not see?



Why are you confused?

Rockets would be better than Standard missiles, because looking at them in line with all the rest of the missile systems, they should do more damage than standard missiles, but have less range. Like Torps or HAMS.

Like Autocannons, Blasters, and Pulse lasers. High Damage, close range.

Unfortunately as they stand, rockets are low damage, close range and can't hit **** all.

Whilst YOU may not see a use for them, as they stand, that is because they are broken and don't work.

I would really like to fly a Rocket Hawk/Crow/Kessie and have comparable DPS as say, a Jaguar, Claw or Rifter. And if not that, just some reason to use them other than the ease of fitting.

If you are bringing a Kessie as a standoff Missile supression platform then fine. But wouldn't it be nice to be able to make the Kessie into a close range rocket spewing death machine as well?

Caldari don't get the choice, which is a little unfair.

Oddymandius
Minmatar
Red Federation
Posted - 2010.02.06 19:21:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: James'Tiberius Kirk
I would really like to fly a Rocket Hawk/Crow/Kessie and have comparable DPS as say, a Jaguar, Claw or Rifter.
You can, if you limit yourself to attacking larger targets, as mentioned above. A Kestrel ought to be one of the few frigates that can kill a Thrasher.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only