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blankseplocked Is there a market PVP reason for sell orders right above buy orders?
 
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jjit
Posted - 2010.02.02 18:41:00 - [1]
 

What prompted this was some rigs in Jita: at some point there were 3 orders totaling 8 units for 11,000,000 and then someone comes along and tries to sell 20 for 10 (ten) ISK above the highest buy.
I thought that with skills and 10 standings with Caldari and Corp the market fee would still be above this .0001%? So I would have expected the seller to have just filled the 8 orders.

It could have been a bot or someone who can't do math or someone who doesn't care about an extra 100k, although if timely sale is more important than max price, nothing is quicker than an immediate sale.

Unless it is your secret algorithm, can you tell me why someone would do that? I think I noticed it at least once before, on implants IIRC. Perhaps it is not a coincidence that was also a byproduct of mission farming?

Yarinor
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.02 19:47:00 - [2]
 

This may be completely false, but it may be that he's trying to get people to lower their prices so he can buy them out.

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2010.02.02 20:14:00 - [3]
 

Or he has sat on them long enough and just wants them sold as quickly as possible to recover at least some ISK.

Tesal
Posted - 2010.02.02 21:09:00 - [4]
 

If the rigs are crappy rigs that do not sell well, you can put up a small sell order below build cost and very close to the buy orders. You then make sure you have the highest buy order. This will drive people to dump the rigs on your buy orders. You will buy more than you sell, and you will probably not lose any isk. This also crashes the market, and people freak out and take down their sell orders and dump them on your buy orders. You are happy because you are buying below build cost. You then melt these rigs and sell the bits or build new rigs of a different kind that is profitable. Then you are rich.

Omg Corn
Gallente
Alcoholocaust.
Posted - 2010.02.02 21:10:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: SencneS
Or he has sat on them long enough and just wants them sold as quickly as possible to recover at least some ISK.


If they were trying to do that, they might as well sell to the buy orders.

I've priced sell orders at just above buy orders accidentally several times when updating 50+ orders. It happens when I get distracted by something in the middle of updating a large amount of orders.

Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
Posted - 2010.02.02 21:15:00 - [6]
 

Omg corn said it. Happens all the time.

Also, I know at least one example where a guy did it out of frustration of being 001 isked all the time.

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2010.02.02 21:21:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Omg Corn
If they were trying to do that, they might as well sell to the buy orders.

I've priced sell orders at just above buy orders accidentally several times when updating 50+ orders. It happens when I get distracted by something in the middle of updating a large amount of orders.


There are a some rigs that the lowest sell order is maybe 20-30mil and there are no buy orders or the buy order is for maybe 10 ISK.

Undercutting down a few mil at a time on something you're sitting on until the other guy finally buys your stuff is the smart thing to do. Unless you have good refine skills then it might be better the reprocesses and sell the salvage. But until that time undercutting by big numbers is the way to go.

Omg Corn
Gallente
Alcoholocaust.
Posted - 2010.02.02 21:34:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Omg Corn
If they were trying to do that, they might as well sell to the buy orders.

I've priced sell orders at just above buy orders accidentally several times when updating 50+ orders. It happens when I get distracted by something in the middle of updating a large amount of orders.


There are a some rigs that the lowest sell order is maybe 20-30mil and there are no buy orders or the buy order is for maybe 10 ISK.

Undercutting down a few mil at a time on something you're sitting on until the other guy finally buys your stuff is the smart thing to do. Unless you have good refine skills then it might be better the reprocesses and sell the salvage. But until that time undercutting by big numbers is the way to go.


I agree, but in the situation the op listed there is no benefit to dropping sell orders to just above buy orders. So it was most likely either carelessnes or stupidity, not some secret plot to manipulate the market. Of course they could have been attempting to fool other traders (and their bots) into dropping their sell orders, but for such a cheap and low volume item I doubt it.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.02 22:19:00 - [9]
 


There is not enough information to draw a good conclusion, one of the following seems mostly likely. 1) Ignorance of the price and selling at the market average. 2) Accidental miss pricing. 3) A deliberate attempt reduce the margin to drive others from the market.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.02.03 01:06:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

There is not enough information to draw a good conclusion, one of the following seems mostly likely. 1) Ignorance of the price and selling at the market average.


Not always.

Quote:
2) Accidental miss pricing.


Possibly

Quote:
3) A deliberate attempt reduce the margin to drive others from the market.


I love doing this. Yesterday I took a crapload of T2 modules I had built to Jita and after 30 minutes set them 0.01 ISK above sell orders. I watched some lemming (or bot) sell over 1100 T2 modules to a buy order, not once, not twice, but all 3 times I did this on the same module.

The best part is that 90% of the buy orders still allow me to make a profit on them after invention, production, and POS fuel cost, but I love watching idiots try to 0.01 ISK me.


 

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