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blankseplocked [propos] Increase max fleet size to 1281 pilots (new leadership skill)
 
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.02.03 03:13:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Soldier Wing
This Arbitarry limit needs raising as the EVE population raises.

This be stupidity.

Blobs grow larger and your solution is to throw ever more resources at it? Increasing the fleet sizes solves few of the real problems with large battles.

What is needed is inter-fleet coordination tools. Ability to share cynos, targets, warp-ins, fleet channels and more.

wert668
Posted - 2010.02.03 18:03:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Blobs grow larger and your solution is to throw ever more resources at it? Increasing the fleet sizes solves few of the real problems with large battles.

What is needed is inter-fleet coordination tools. Ability to share cynos, targets, warp-ins, fleet channels and more.
Players decides how they want to play, not you. If they want large fleets it is up to them. And then CCP need to solve the problem not to trow it away.

Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2010.02.03 18:15:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
no support. Bigger fleets do not need more help, they need less.

Precisely.

/Ben


Okay, this attitude I simply don't understand. Do you know how 0.0 fleet sizes are determined? You take everyone who can show up, and you put them in a fleet. It doesn't matter how much support or opposition there is from CCP, and it definitely doesn't matter how big the in-game fleets are, because everyone just uses Vent to FC with anyways. The only difference that this would make is that the game would be less annoying, and there'd at least be a slight chance of people using in-game tools at least a little bit. This isn't about encouraging big fleets, it's about acknowledging reality and trying to help ease things a little with it instead of trying to resist it futilely.


You've obviously never been in major 0.0 fights. The last thing we need to do is encourage more blobbing in 0.0 and more tactic based fights. The OP's suggestion caters right to this. If you get everyone in that fleet, you'll basically be able to move fleets very quickly and efficiently. in blob form

Its fine as-is.


Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.02.03 18:56:00 - [34]
 

Reducing lag goes through reducing fleet sizes in a natural way, or splitting them in different solarsystems with a mechanic that gives and advantage in doing so.

This proposal goes weak against what is urged to fix lag in big engagements.




Jonah Pod
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.03 19:34:00 - [35]
 

Please don't mix up different intentions. From what I understood, this propposal is in no way related to "lag". Instead it just attempts to solve a rather organisational issue (or inconvenience) with fleets. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be surprised to find this, if implemented, being able to reduce lag.

Just to add another interesting point to the discussion: Today a colleague of mine (old 0.0 citizen and major ally member) objected and pointed out that already today fleets of 200+ would be pain to keep "in line" and having multiple smaller fleets instead would be more feasible. (However, the proposal doesn't force anyone to set up such kind of giant fleet)

Still supported, btw.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2010.02.03 20:56:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
no support. Bigger fleets do not need more help, they need less.

Precisely.

/Ben


This isn't about encouraging big fleets, it's about acknowledging reality and trying to help ease things a little with it instead of trying to resist it futilely.


You've obviously never been in major 0.0 fights. The last thing we need to do is encourage more blobbing in 0.0 and more tactic based fights. The OP's suggestion caters right to this. If you get everyone in that fleet, you'll basically be able to move fleets very quickly and efficiently. in blob form

Its fine as-is.




You obviously haven't been in 0.0 in a capacity other than the wide-eyed noob sneaking in with a few others to try to rat. It most definitely is NOT fine as is.

Fleets larger than 256 are already being formed, using tools outside Eve. The cap placed on fleets in game does nothing to prevent this. Raising the cap will not change the size of fleets, it will only remove some of the artificial annoyances created by shortsighted coding.

Vance Black
Caldari
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Posted - 2010.02.03 23:48:00 - [37]
 

So in a year we are going to be having 10k v 10k battles and asking for fleet sizes to be increased to 20k?


Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2010.02.04 09:42:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
no support. Bigger fleets do not need more help, they need less.

Precisely.

Okay, this attitude I simply don't understand. Do you know how 0.0 fleet sizes are determined? You take everyone who can show up, and you put them in a fleet.

And therein lies the problem. It's currently too easy for people to congregate from all over the map to join up with the uberblob of the day. All that results in is people staring at black screens for hours and whine threads in General Discussion.

I agree that it may well make things "less annoying" when it comes to larger scale fleet organisation, but my beef is the fact that other mechanics allow such large fleets to form to begin with. And so, as I believe this idea would only further enable that trend in the wrong direction if enacted, I cannot support it.

/Ben

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2010.02.04 10:42:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Dek Kato
No. I think its a good limit because it forces such a MASSIVE fleet to have multiple commanders with excellent leadership skills. Allowing one person to bonus across 1000+ people is ridiculous.

I can see where you're coming from, but training a rank 16 skill should have its benefits, right?
Meanwhile, I also like Marlonas proposal:
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Only if you include some cool heavy duty battleship+ size ship that gives out new bonuses.

This could be the cue for introducing T2 tier three BSs. Limit Command Ships to giving bonuses to a single fleet branch and below, while these new Command BSs can do so for the whole fleet superstructure. Other than that, give them awesome tank and low dps, like Fleet Command Ships. Also, with cost similar to a marauder and without the backup of insurance, it sure is a nice risk vs. reward balance.

Originally by: Vance Black
So in a year we are going to be having 10k v 10k battles and asking for fleet sizes to be increased to 20k?

I really hope that improved game mechanics will decrease the incentive for blobbing. And just fyi, the next fleet step size would be 6406.

Originally by: Ben Derindar
And therein lies the problem. It's currently too easy for people to congregate from all over the map to join up with the uberblob of the day. All that results in is people staring at black screens for hours and whine threads in General Discussion.

That is a technical problem not related to this proposal.
Quote:
my beef is the fact that other mechanics allow such large fleets to form to begin with. And so, as I believe this idea would only further enable that trend in the wrong direction if enacted, I cannot support it.

I already said I'd also favor game mechanics that didn't give incentive to blob, but in keeping with the games sandbox philosophy, the tools shouldn't be the limiting factor for emergent gameplay.

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
What is needed is inter-fleet coordination tools. Ability to share cynos, targets, warp-ins, fleet channels and more.
I like this. But once you do that, the effect will almost be the same as having one large fleet...

pHenomena1337
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2010.02.04 12:48:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: pHenomena1337 on 04/02/2010 12:48:05
Sure

Varelen
Caldari
Posted - 2010.02.04 19:05:00 - [41]
 

I agree with this.

I suggest the skill be named......Space Marshal

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2010.02.05 07:46:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
no support. Bigger fleets do not need more help, they need less.

Precisely.

Okay, this attitude I simply don't understand. Do you know how 0.0 fleet sizes are determined? You take everyone who can show up, and you put them in a fleet.

And therein lies the problem. It's currently too easy for people to congregate from all over the map to join up with the uberblob of the day. All that results in is people staring at black screens for hours and whine threads in General Discussion.

I agree that it may well make things "less annoying" when it comes to larger scale fleet organisation, but my beef is the fact that other mechanics allow such large fleets to form to begin with. And so, as I believe this idea would only further enable that trend in the wrong direction if enacted, I cannot support it.

/Ben



I remember the days when a 10 person fleet was called a "blob" - oh wait, that was today. People use the word "blob" for any fleet larger than their fleet or any fleet large enough that they no longer feel special. This is a multiplayer game - it is designed and marketed as a game where you can join a big fleet and shoot at another big fleet.

Eve isn't going to stop having large fleets. Limiting a fleet size to 256 clearly does nothing to stop people from forming large fleets. Fix the shortsighted fleet limitation.

As to the question of will we ask for the limitation to be raised when fleets start rolling out in the thousands rather than hundreds - yes. If CCP invests in hardware and "need for speed" to allow even larger fleets (then boasts about the size of fleet fights because of their work), it would only make sense that they would put a few man hours of programming into increasing the in-game fleet max to correlate with all the other effort and money they put into the issue.

irion felpamy
Minmatar
Assisted Genocide
Unprovoked Aggression
Posted - 2010.02.05 13:14:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
no support. Bigger fleets do not need more help, they need less.

Precisely.

/Ben


Okay, this attitude I simply don't understand. Do you know how 0.0 fleet sizes are determined? You take everyone who can show up, and you put them in a fleet. It doesn't matter how much support or opposition there is from CCP, and it definitely doesn't matter how big the in-game fleets are, because everyone just uses Vent to FC with anyways. The only difference that this would make is that the game would be less annoying, and there'd at least be a slight chance of people using in-game tools at least a little bit. This isn't about encouraging big fleets, it's about acknowledging reality and trying to help ease things a little with it instead of trying to resist it futilely.


You've obviously never been in major 0.0 fights. The last thing we need to do is encourage more blobbing in 0.0 and more tactic based fights. The OP's suggestion caters right to this. If you get everyone in that fleet, you'll basically be able to move fleets very quickly and efficiently. in blob form

Its fine as-is.




The fleet limit as is dos not reduce the number of people turning up to a fight, it just makes things awkward.

supported

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.02.05 21:00:00 - [44]
 

Good idea.

wavre
Posted - 2010.02.16 10:24:00 - [45]
 

There is nothing wrong with blobbing and they will be the same size no matter what the fleet limit is. By increasing the size you will simply increase the variety of tactics that can be used and that will make EvE batter for all of us. Honesty atm people just run 4 fleets at a time. No one is put off form bringing numbers because of some 256 small man sized game mechanic. 256 was made the limit not to limit fleets but simply because that was the greatest fleet size imagined of at the time.

wavre
Posted - 2010.02.16 13:01:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Vance Black
So in a year we are going to be having 10k v 10k battles and asking for fleet sizes to be increased to 20k?




Thats a good thing btw. It plays on what eve can do that no other game can do.

Anita Blonde
Posted - 2010.02.22 21:46:00 - [47]
 

yes please

Wonder Guy
Posted - 2010.02.22 21:47:00 - [48]
 

+1

MataHarry
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.02.22 21:47:00 - [49]
 

aye !

Wikis
Posted - 2010.02.22 21:51:00 - [50]
 

please do that, will make life so much more easier

besides (well im not a dev just a wild guess here), but maybe it will be possible to combat lag mosnter by streamlining IO information flows by grouping them in a single fleet rather than managing IO of several fleet seperatelly

my guess that right now IO is not based on fleet anyway, but rahter on every individual account, however maybe we could implement it this way so that they are grouped somehow by fleet

maybe single fleet IO load on server could be allocated to a dedicated processor cluster based on size of fleet

so if fleet is small, then process it as normal, if fleet grows very large then get a dedicated cluster of processors managing it

smth like that

/wearing flame resistant suit and supporting the idea

Gizan
Hounds Of War
R-I-P
Posted - 2010.02.24 05:52:00 - [51]
 

I support this. Limiting the number of players in fleet is difficult to manage the fleet. instead there are 2-3 fleets of 256 players.

we need larger fleets..

having larger fleet sizes isnt going to make the blobs bigger(by much) its just goona allow the ease of play.

Yes fleets will get larger becuase people wont have to deal with the issues, but the increase in the watch list needs to get fixed along with this.

Snypar Australis
Shadow Confederate
Payment on Demand
Posted - 2010.02.24 16:01:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Vance Black
So in a year we are going to be having 10k v 10k battles and asking for fleet sizes to be increased to 20k?




I'm not sure i see where the problem is with this!
how awesome would it be to see 10,000 people lining up on each side! 20,000 players all interacting (destroying each other) in one system at one time!


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