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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.01.31 10:58:00 - [1]
 

Now that webs are no longer able to cover up poor blaster tracking the Hyperion's role as an assault (read: offensive) battleship has been pretty much erased.

It used to be my go-to ship for solo gate work in lowsec, but now it's completely redundant. The whole point of it's existence in my opinion was to be able to fit a sensor booster for a faster lock speed, and in doing so differentiate itself from the Megathron. Now that it has to fit dual webs in order to be able to hit anything it doesn't have a lock speed advantage to make one want to choose it over the cheaper and just as effective Megathron.

The other downside is that while the Megathron has superior tracking and an extra high slot for a neutralizer, if the Hyperion removes only a single gun to be replaced by a neutralizer then it loses any DPS advantage it had over the Megathron. And the Mega is much less expensive to buy, insure and fit than the Hyperion is. In short, it's redundant.

The Hype was fine before the web nerf, so I guess the answer here isn't to change the Hype but fix blasters instead. Barring that, it needs something to set it apart from the Megathron.

Direstorm
Posted - 2010.01.31 11:08:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Direstorm on 31/01/2010 11:10:24
PVP . . . . . = MOAR CHEAP DPS
Megathron = CHEAP DPS
Hyperion . = EXPENSIVE REPPER TANK

I'm sure you can figure out the rest. kthxbai

[edit: Why is the font different on edit vs view? Fail.]

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.01.31 11:16:00 - [3]
 

Mega doesnt have enough mids for shield tank, hype does.

[Hyperion, Shield blaster buffer]
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Extender II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Berserker II x3
Valkyrie II x2

15+26 range with null, pretty good for blasters.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2010.01.31 11:38:00 - [4]
 

Armor Brutix is dead, long live the shield Brutix. same applies here really.

Trader20
Posted - 2010.01.31 13:51:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Trader20 on 31/01/2010 13:53:52

Hyp has also been sub-par in pvp since active tanking in pvp is lol anyway. I know all you experts on sing say active tankin is awsome, you might want to join us on tranq sometime and see the power of blobs.

If only hyp had its bonus changed from armor repair to armor rr. Hype rr gangs wouldn't be op Twisted Evil

Edit: Lol why is "Shi-z" censored?

Marko Riva
Posted - 2010.01.31 14:48:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 31/01/2010 13:53:52

Hyp has also been sub-par in pvp since active tanking in pvp is lol anyway. I know all you experts on sing say active tankin is awsome, you might want to join us on tranq sometime and see the power of blobs.

If only hyp had its bonus changed from armor repair to armor rr. Hype rr gangs wouldn't be op Twisted Evil

Edit: Lol why is "Shi-z" censored?


I didn't know that all PVP was massive blobs?

Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2010.01.31 15:01:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Kessiaan on 31/01/2010 15:01:31
Only thing I use my Hype for is shooting POS's, it's actually pretty good at it.

Hyperion, POS Shooter

HIGH:
8x 350mm Railgun II (Antimatter Charge L)
MID:
100MN Afterburner II
2x Tracking Computer II (Optimal Range)
2x Cap Recharger II
LOW:
Damage Control II
Large Armor Repairer II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer
DRONE:
4x Garde II

.. for actual PvP though the Hype is completely inferior to the Megathron, imo. No tracking bonus (which is critical on large blasters), useless 2nd bonus (since you have to give up damage mods for a strong active tank, a plated mega w/ 2 or 3 magstabs is better, even for solo), it doesn't lock fast enough to be useful for solo gate camping, etc. Just my opinion, ofc

Grut
The Protei
Posted - 2010.01.31 15:40:00 - [8]
 

Uses?

1. Shield gank ~ 1500dps with 130k ehp no scram though.
2. Owning lowsec BC gangs - 1000 dps tank with 1000 dps tank means you can take on 4v1 odds vs some low skilled bcers.
3. erm

So not 2 much then.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.01.31 15:56:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Mega doesnt have enough mids for shield tank, hype does.

[Hyperion, Shield blaster buffer]
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Extender II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Berserker II x3
Valkyrie II x2

15+26 range with null, pretty good for blasters.


Ignoring all the other obvious issues (no point for example), how is it supposed to hit *anything* if it doesn't even have one web, much less two?

Except under extremely narrow circumstances shield tanked Hypes are nothing more than a novelty at best.

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2010.01.31 16:06:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Furb Killer
Mega doesnt have enough mids for shield tank, hype does.

[Hyperion, Shield blaster buffer]
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Extender II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Berserker II x3
Valkyrie II x2

15+26 range with null, pretty good for blasters.


Ignoring all the other obvious issues (no point for example), how is it supposed to hit *anything* if it doesn't even have one web, much less two?

Except under extremely narrow circumstances shield tanked Hypes are nothing more than a novelty at best.



i tought it was pretty obviuos its not a solo setup

Rajere
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2010.01.31 16:35:00 - [11]
 

Jita Ganking ofc

Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.01.31 17:00:00 - [12]
 

My pvp perspective lies between solo bs pvp and blobs.

Small gangs.

Hyp is good as a bigger shield gank brutix setup - I always fit a point though - I also would fly it with logistics support. I leave webbing to smaller class ships that grab tackle before I do. The pirate frigs/cruisers with 90% webs are my blaster bs's best friends.

I also fit it for rr armor bs gangs - the extra mid being eccm and ensuring the rr circle is broken a lot less often.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.01.31 17:46:00 - [13]
 

If you want you can replace the cap booster with whatever ewar you want, but makes you bit really cap hungry. However it looked pretty obvious to me that such a ship is meant to be pretty much a pure dps ship, not a solo ship. Not everything needs to be solo ships.

Griplick
Posted - 2010.01.31 20:03:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 31/01/2010 13:53:52

Hyp has also been sub-par in pvp since active tanking in pvp is lol anyway


lol

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:48:00 - [15]
 

Shocked... just wow at the responses to this thread. Shield tanked hype is fail, I don't even need to load eft to determine that. Could probably solo such a ship in an omen.Rolling Eyes Not everything is blob warfare either, in fact, that stuff is actually kinda rare. Lots of people engage in blob warfare, hence where the blob comes from but the actual blob fights are not very common as both sides blob and none want to fight without a 4 to 1 ship advantage.

Smaller fights are far more common. My personal record is 27 solo/duo kills in 24 hours. And when I look for fights, I often find a dozen or more small skirmishes in a day. Active tanks work in small scale combat and in 1v1 or 2v2, are in many cases superior to buffer or hybrid setups. But all this is OT.

I agree that blasters need a bit more tracking. They are by far the shortest range weapon system and yet don't have the tracking to make up for it. Undoing the web nerf isn't really a very good solution since the web nerf was needed but the tracking can certainly be doubled without screwing anything up.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2010.01.31 22:02:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
Undoing the web nerf isn't really a very good solution since the web nerf was needed but the tracking can certainly be doubled without screwing anything up.


Tracking is fine, people just need to realize BS guns arent designed to track frigates or cruisers well.

Against the intended target size, a single webbed target will never pull enough transversal to give you any trouble unless you are doing something very wrong.

Footoo Rama
Gallente
Beyond Control.
Posted - 2010.01.31 22:10:00 - [17]
 

Been saying this for awhile, the hyperion is pure hype. In PvP the hype does not have an edge over the Mega even if you take price out of the equation. In PvE the Domi is so much better. Sure flying a Hype in a BC gang gives it an edge but a sniper/blaster mega or nuet/sentry Domi is just as usefull. Also for POS bashing is the hype really better then a sentry Domi?

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.01.31 22:20:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
Shocked... just wow at the responses to this thread. Shield tanked hype is fail, I don't even need to load eft to determine that. Could probably solo such a ship in an omen.Rolling Eyes


Nah, you'd get face ****d man. You would not believe the pain that thing can bring - and it even has relatively good tracking too. :)

As to the OP, I see two things that the Hype has over the Mega:
- 5 Mids allows for shield buffer tanking or ECCM/SeBo.
- Rep tanks are pretty good if you have a SOLID knowledge of how many people they have.

-Liang

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2010.01.31 22:32:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: King Rothgar
Undoing the web nerf isn't really a very good solution since the web nerf was needed but the tracking can certainly be doubled without screwing anything up.


Tracking is fine, people just need to realize BS guns arent designed to track frigates or cruisers well.

Against the intended target size, a single webbed target will never pull enough transversal to give you any trouble unless you are doing something very wrong.


Blaster tracking is broken(or mostly webs in my opinion), people just need to realize that they are supposed to horribly die at close range in front of a blaster ship with next to zero damage reduction. Neutral

Also BS couldn't even hit Frigs with 90% webs back in the days, not even the feared Neutron Mega, if the pilot was not a complete moron. Drones mostly did this, true story.

Also ST Hype is crap to, it lacks the damage advantage that you would need to make a ST blaster BS work for solo and the utility the mega brings to smaller gangs.
Bringing Logistics to make a ST Hype work is also completely ******ed as you could simply use a Mega in a RR gang.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2010.02.01 00:28:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: King Rothgar
Shocked... just wow at the responses to this thread. Shield tanked hype is fail, I don't even need to load eft to determine that. Could probably solo such a ship in an omen.Rolling Eyes


Nah, you'd get face ****d man. You would not believe the pain that thing can bring - and it even has relatively good tracking too. :)

As to the OP, I see two things that the Hype has over the Mega:
- 5 Mids allows for shield buffer tanking or ECCM/SeBo.
- Rep tanks are pretty good if you have a SOLID knowledge of how many people they have.

-Liang


I call bull****. A shield hype if it has a point and a mwd, both of which are absolutely mandatory in small gang or solo pvp, will have less than 100k EHP. A standard t2 fitted buffer tank BS has around 150k EHP without leadership bonuses. The dps difference between the two is only around 10% thanks to stacking penalties on damage mods. So umm, yeah, 10% damage boost at the cost of 33% of your standard passive tank. Yeah, that's a great tradeLaughing. I'd love to 1v1 a shield hype in my completely ordinary t2 fitted abaddon. In fact, I'd even be willing to try it with my harbinger. And I'm just talking about buffer tanking it, active tanked it becomes a real monster in a small gang situation, still can't track worth **** though.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.02.01 00:40:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 01/02/2010 00:43:00
Originally by: King Rothgar

I call bull****. A shield hype if it has a point and a mwd, both of which are absolutely mandatory in small gang or solo pvp, will have less than 100k EHP. A standard t2 fitted buffer tank BS has around 150k EHP without leadership bonuses. The dps difference between the two is only around 10% thanks to stacking penalties on damage mods. So umm, yeah, 10% damage boost at the cost of 33% of your standard passive tank. Yeah, that's a great tradeLaughing. I'd love to 1v1 a shield hype in my completely ordinary t2 fitted abaddon. In fact, I'd even be willing to try it with my harbinger. And I'm just talking about buffer tanking it, active tanked it becomes a real monster in a small gang situation, still can't track worth **** though.


Comments:
- Your ship fitting skills apparently suck, because its somewhat trivial to break 100K EHP with both MWD and point.
- Shield buffer tanks are always weak to lasers... Rolling Eyes (But just to be clear, I'm near 100% sure that your Harby would die to a Hype fit like that. It wouldn't be the first one IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN).
- Shield hypes have way better mobility and come with a built in "free" rep.

-Liang

Ed: Also, fitting up an plate/rep Hype (my favorite hype btw) still leaves you terribly weak to Fusion. Maybe someone should talk **** about armor hypes because of the explosive hole? Rolling Eyes

DOARota
Gallente
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2010.02.01 01:06:00 - [22]
 

It exists to make the Domi feel less self conscious about it's looks. The hype has to be one of the flat out ugliest ships in the game.

Harotak
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2010.02.01 03:36:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Harotak on 01/02/2010 03:36:24
The shield hype is so 2009. Everyone knows it all bout the shield vindy now. Oh and lol at thread derailment.

Grapez
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2010.02.01 06:08:00 - [24]
 

I was thinking about this just today in fact.

I've pretty much come to the same conclusion as the OP; the Hyperion is a failure of a PvP boat. At any skill level or specialization, it's outdone by either the Dominix and Megathron in either (real-world) tank or (real-world) DPS or both. Outside of Gallente ships, it's outdone in one or both areas by every other BS, with the exception of the Typhonn (a Hyp is arguably better for low-skilled pilots) and the Scorpion (which has a fairly unique, non-DPS non-tank role in PvP).

That said, I started fiddling around with one on the hopes that I could sock one away in a high-sec hanger for the odd day that I want to run missions. The only fit that I could find that would out-DPS and tank marginally better than my tried and true mission Dominix required an ACR, and would absolutely need BS5 and AWU4. I have these skills, and I can afford to pay near THREE TIMES what a Dominix costs for a mission Hype, but, really, why?

So, to review:
*no role in PvP
*no realisitc role in PvE
*expensive, skill-intensive

My suggestion: Remove the hype entirely from the game and replace it with yet another torp-spewing Raven hull.

Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2010.02.01 12:58:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Kessiaan on 01/02/2010 13:07:14
Originally by: Footoo Rama
Also for POS bashing is the hype really better then a sentry Domi?


Yes

350mm rail hype w/ 3 damage mods + gardes - cap stable, 35km optimal w/ plain T1 Antimatter, 812 DPS - better than anything except an Abbadon using Scorch, and with a local rep it can tank the guns itself without needing RR.

Sentry Domi (with no guns) using Gardes - 450 DPS. I suppose you could strap some rails on it but then your gangmates will hate you for not bringing RR.

JingJangJung
Posted - 2010.02.01 13:23:00 - [26]
 

Well, Hyp is missing tracking, but if u look at it closely, its best solo BS available.

check out this fitting:
[Hyperion, tripple LAR]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Corpus A-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II

Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Shadow Serpentis Warp Scrambler
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II

Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Berserker II x4

1835 dps tanked, cap holds for 4minutes. Thats without gang bonuses. If i apply some damnation mods gang bonuses i get whooping 2865dps tanked. Throw in some standard exile and u are at 3440dps tanked. Calculate in some implants and u have a winner.

Ofc, u can drop deadspace LAR and fit a t2 rig with faction lar or whatever.

It can be awesome solo pvp ship, but u have to use your tactics of scouting more..

But yeah, i do agree blasters need 25% better tracking for start..Remove all the falloff bonuses and add them with 50% tracking bonuses and we have a winner..
arrange fittings if u need mwd with downgrading

Noguchi Raijin
Motorbreath Inc.
Posted - 2010.02.01 14:00:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: JingJangJung
Well, Hyp is missing tracking, but if u look at it closely, its best solo BS available.

check out this fitting:
[Hyperion, tripple LAR]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Corpus A-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II

Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Shadow Serpentis Warp Scrambler
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II

Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Berserker II x4

1835 dps tanked, cap holds for 4minutes. Thats without gang bonuses. If i apply some damnation mods gang bonuses i get whooping 2865dps tanked. Throw in some standard exile and u are at 3440dps tanked. Calculate in some implants and u have a winner.

Ofc, u can drop deadspace LAR and fit a t2 rig with faction lar or whatever.

It can be awesome solo pvp ship, but u have to use your tactics of scouting more..

But yeah, i do agree blasters need 25% better tracking for start..Remove all the falloff bonuses and add them with 50% tracking bonuses and we have a winner..
arrange fittings if u need mwd with downgrading



Triple J is right. This is indeed a great solo fit. All Hype pilots please make it so.

Snyderm
Posted - 2010.02.01 14:41:00 - [28]
 

In terms of missioning, I think I found what a hype can do better than a megathron. Perhaps take it with a grain of salt because I am a rather low SP player.

Something like this:

Mission Hype
Low
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
EANM II
EANM II
Explosive Hardener II
Magnetic Stabilizer II
Mid
100mn Afterburner II
Cap Recharger (x4)
High
350mm Prototype Rail (x8)
Rigs
CCC (x3)
Drones
5x Hobgoblin II
5x Hammerhead II

Basically what it does is give you much greater Tank (~500dps omni) and still as good or better speed (350-400) compared to a megathron at the expense of tracking.

The reason this might be desirable is that for a relatively new player, it is tough to die in a level 4 mission when you have that much tanking plus that much speed. Although it does have more damage as well, results may vary due to the lack of tracking over a megathron. You start to lose your advantages when you add in a Tracking modlue.

I really want to think CCP had a grand design for the Hyperion and it is in fact deserving of tier 3 status, but obviously its a struggle.


Beverly Sparks
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:38:00 - [29]
 

The Hyp is there to fight one on one with the Maelstrom on Sing server.

Verton
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:14:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Grut

1. Shield gank ~ 1500dps with 130k ehp no scram though.
2. Owning lowsec BC gangs - 1000 dps tank with 1000 dps tank means you can take on 4v1 odds vs some low skilled bcers.
3. erm


Any chance you could post this shield tanked beast?

-=Verton=-


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