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Ivelios d'Sanquine
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:41:00 - [1]
 

I am looking for the best interceptor/frigate dogfighter, can u help me..

its for small PvP operations against other small ships, perhaps a wingman for a heavier ship but it has to be able to shoot down interceptors and fast frigates without getting destroyed.

skills is not an issue, isk (for the ship) is not an issue, only isk spend on part to the ship has to be kept low (tec two is okay but not faction parts).

Lillian Blu
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:42:00 - [2]
 

Taranis.

Marcus Druallis
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:43:00 - [3]
 

Dramiel

drones man
Oberon Incorporated
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:43:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Lillian Blu
Taranis.


/thread

Veldsparmonster
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:47:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: drones man
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Dramiel


/thread


Fixed that for you.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:48:00 - [6]
 

Dramiel is far superior to Taranis.

Daredevil is better 1on1, but as a wingman nothing even comes close to how efficient the Dramiel is. Nothing at all.

Ivelios d'Sanquine
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:50:00 - [7]
 

the dramiel is def a nice ship but what if i was to exclude factionship (dont have eve right now) my friends are poor and he/I would like to buy somthing cheeper (dont remember the cost of the dramiel

James Tritanius
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:51:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: James Tritanius on 28/01/2010 22:52:00

Poasting to confirm that Dramiel is indeed FOTM.

If you are looking for non-faction stuff, try Ishkur, Jaguar or Taranis.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:53:00 - [9]
 

Confirming that I am an idiot - I know the Dramiel is good but what makes it like 1000x better than every other frig forever (a slight exaggeration from the forums but you know what I mean) ?

OP: The best ship to use against other frigs/interceptors is a destroyer :p

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.01.28 23:47:00 - [10]
 

Including faction stuff: Dramiel, then Daredevil
Not including the faction stuff: Crusader, then Taranis

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2010.01.28 23:56:00 - [11]
 

I love sader, but i have to say that +1 mid on ranis makes it better dog fighter.
Also 'land scram and facemelt' reality is much more relaxing than kiting 3,5k/s 300 dps inties at 16k /but maybe you will like it/.

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.01.29 00:31:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
I love sader, but i have to say that +1 mid on ranis makes it better dog fighter.
Also 'land scram and facemelt' reality is much more relaxing than kiting 3,5k/s 300 dps inties at 16k /but maybe you will like it/.


This is going to sound astonishingly arrogant, but yes, for most pilots the Taranis is the better choice. The third mid for a web makes a lot of sense, particularly for a blaster-ship but I have yet to be defeated by one in my current 'sader fit. In fact, most fights were so one sided it was ridiculous (one memorable pilot failing even to reach my armour before he popped).

I scram-fit it and will happily go toe-to-toe with a Taranis. The dps might not match up, but I wouldn't call 171 with Scorch at 9km shabby. Couple that with more EHP than a standard 'ranis and an overloaded repper and it's nowhere near as clear cut as you might think. 'Sader is faster and more agile outside scram range too, which can be very handy for picking your fight.

Even if he gets to point blank range VERY quickly (which he'll need to to avoid falling too far behind in the damage race) a swift crystal switch and obscene skills have been enough for me. Most engagements against a decent opponent (decent, not excellent) have ended with me at 90-95% structure (gotta love damage controls) and some nice loot.

In the hands of someone who knows what they're doing the Crusader is terrifying. Much as I love the locus fit, I'm finding my current one SO much more effective for what I use it for.

I fear the Claw more than the Taranis in mine; actually for pure dogfighting the plated-neut-Claw is a solid choice when going against an frigate opponent who relies on cap.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.01.29 00:35:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Stuart Price
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
I love sader, but i have to say that +1 mid on ranis makes it better dog fighter.
Also 'land scram and facemelt' reality is much more relaxing than kiting 3,5k/s 300 dps inties at 16k /but maybe you will like it/.


This is going to sound astonishingly arrogant, but yes, for most pilots the Taranis is the better choice. The third mid for a web makes a lot of sense, particularly for a blaster-ship but I have yet to be defeated by one in my current 'sader fit. In fact, most fights were so one sided it was ridiculous (one memorable pilot failing even to reach my armour before he popped).

I scram-fit it and will happily go toe-to-toe with a Taranis. The dps might not match up, but I wouldn't call 171 with Scorch at 9km shabby. Couple that with more EHP than a standard 'ranis and an overloaded repper and it's nowhere near as clear cut as you might think. 'Sader is faster and more agile outside scram range too, which can be very handy for picking your fight.

Even if he gets to point blank range VERY quickly (which he'll need to to avoid falling too far behind in the damage race) a swift crystal switch and obscene skills have been enough for me. Most engagements against a decent opponent (decent, not excellent) have ended with me at 90-95% structure (gotta love damage controls) and some nice loot.

In the hands of someone who knows what they're doing the Crusader is terrifying. Much as I love the locus fit, I'm finding my current one SO much more effective for what I use it for.

I fear the Claw more than the Taranis in mine; actually for pure dogfighting the plated-neut-Claw is a solid choice when going against an frigate opponent who relies on cap.

Would you be willing to share your fit? I gave up on the crusader and moved to the navy slicer because the locus fit wasn't working well for me on the crusader anymore, but I love the ship (and it's half the cost of a slicer to boot).

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.01.29 00:42:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Would you be willing to share your fit? I gave up on the crusader and moved to the navy slicer because the locus fit wasn't working well for me on the crusader anymore, but I love the ship (and it's half the cost of a slicer to boot).


Since it's not top secret (it's been posted before, I just modified it slightly), here you go:

4 x Gat Pulse II (Scorch 95% of the time, faction MF the rest)

1 x Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thruster
1 x Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

1 x Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
1 x SAR II
1 x ANP II
1 x Heat Sink II

1 x Burst Aerator I
1 x Collision Accelerator I

Overload the crap out of the guns and repper for pretty much the entire fight, MWD and scram on approach. Against stuff that likes to scram, pretend to keep some distance but let them catch you, preferably on the edges of scram range so your 9km optimal comes into play before they get into optimal themselves.

Against Crows and stuff it's simple: overload, catch them, kill them.

Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
Posted - 2010.01.29 00:44:00 - [15]
 

Posting in a stealth dramiel nerf thread.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2010.01.29 00:49:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 29/01/2010 00:55:15
Well at least against claw you can disengage at will if you cant destroy its 400rt buffer with high em/th resists, vs ranis you will probably die if pilot actually does some manual piloting and doesnt overshoot you.
E: ah you cant, i thought you use 2x od like me on sader


Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.01.29 00:51:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Terianna Eri on 29/01/2010 01:07:10
Originally by: Stuart Price

4 x Gat Pulse II (Scorch 95% of the time, faction MF the rest)

1 x Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thruster
1 x Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

1 x Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
1 x SAR II
1 x ANP II
1 x Heat Sink II

1 x Burst Aerator I
1 x Collision Accelerator I


Ah, gatling pulse. I pretty much arrived at that fit but couldn't get it to fit with the 2 damage rigs and dual light pulse - but it almost fits with that too.

Thanks!

EDIT: Amusing fact - if you drop the scram for an "initiated harmonic" you can swap the T2 rep for best named and fit a T2 damage control... you gain about 200 ehp (pushes you over 4k) and rep 36 dps instead of 39, but you lose 1.1 km of range (down to 7.9). As a bonus, T2 DCs are cheaper than pseudoelectrons.
Worth considering; seems like you'd cap yourself out before you made up the difference in damage repped, so the big trade is the range hit.

Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
Posted - 2010.01.29 00:53:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Stuart Price

4 x Gat Pulse II (Scorch 95% of the time, faction MF the rest)

1 x Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thruster
1 x Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

1 x Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
1 x SAR II
1 x ANP II
1 x Heat Sink II

1 x Burst Aerator I
1 x Collision Accelerator I


Ah, gatling pulse. I pretty much arrived at that fit but couldn't get it to fit with the 2 damage rigs and dual light pulse - but it almost fits with that too.

Thanks!


Exactly the same thing myself.

that fit is a thing of beauty, although I'd have to improve my fitting skills or fit a coreli c-type SAR to get it all on.

London
Imminent Ruin
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2010.01.29 05:34:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Stuart Price
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
I love sader, but i have to say that +1 mid on ranis makes it better dog fighter.
Also 'land scram and facemelt' reality is much more relaxing than kiting 3,5k/s 300 dps inties at 16k /but maybe you will like it/.


This is going to sound astonishingly arrogant, but yes, for most pilots the Taranis is the better choice. The third mid for a web makes a lot of sense, particularly for a blaster-ship but I have yet to be defeated by one in my current 'sader fit. In fact, most fights were so one sided it was ridiculous (one memorable pilot failing even to reach my armour before he popped).

I scram-fit it and will happily go toe-to-toe with a Taranis. The dps might not match up, but I wouldn't call 171 with Scorch at 9km shabby. Couple that with more EHP than a standard 'ranis and an overloaded repper and it's nowhere near as clear cut as you might think. 'Sader is faster and more agile outside scram range too, which can be very handy for picking your fight.

Even if he gets to point blank range VERY quickly (which he'll need to to avoid falling too far behind in the damage race) a swift crystal switch and obscene skills have been enough for me. Most engagements against a decent opponent (decent, not excellent) have ended with me at 90-95% structure (gotta love damage controls) and some nice loot.

In the hands of someone who knows what they're doing the Crusader is terrifying. Much as I love the locus fit, I'm finding my current one SO much more effective for what I use it for.

I fear the Claw more than the Taranis in mine; actually for pure dogfighting the plated-neut-Claw is a solid choice when going against an frigate opponent who relies on cap.


You fail to mention this is against the broken blaster ranis (CCP needs to change this **** and fix blasters already!).
A rail-ranis has scram/web optimal with antimater, and still plenty of dps to take down your sader.




Omara Otawan
Posted - 2010.01.29 05:48:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: London

You fail to mention this is against the broken blaster ranis (CCP needs to change this **** and fix blasters already!).



Broken blaster ranis? Jeez, the whines get crazier every day...

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.01.29 05:55:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: London
You fail to mention this is against the broken blaster ranis (CCP needs to change this **** and fix blasters already!).
A rail-ranis has scram/web optimal with antimater, and still plenty of dps to take down your sader.


The rail fits I've been fighting haven't.

Also: Blaster 'ranis broken? I think not. Have you tried using Null and overloading lately? Didn't think so.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.01.29 06:36:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: London
You fail to mention this is against the broken blaster ranis (CCP needs to change this **** and fix blasters already!).


ok I know that blasters in the medium and large variant could use a fix or summat, but a b-ranis sucks?

what the hell?


also, best dogfighters are the dramiel, daredevil and taranis, no exceptions, accept no substitutes.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2010.01.29 09:25:00 - [23]
 

Claw's my fav.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.01.29 11:04:00 - [24]
 

Stuart, a good Ranis will still shred you. The simple fact that you think the 3rd mid on a Taranis is used for a Web implies just how incompetent you are.

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Confirming that I am an idiot - I know the Dramiel is good but what makes it like 1000x better than every other frig forever (a slight exaggeration from the forums but you know what I mean) ?

OP: The best ship to use against other frigs/interceptors is a destroyer :p


A well-fitted Dramiel has:

Solid EHP (~6.5k) coupled with innate high explosive resistance (Warriors)
Amazing speed (~5.5k+ at MWD, ~2k+ AB before overload)
Solid DPS (~200+ DPS before overload)
Dual propulsion (absolutely amazing for tanking drones and getting away from tight spots)

Compare that to a Taranis or other standard dogfighters (that also function as small gang tacklers) and you will see them lose out on many of these points.

For much of the fighting you encounter in small gang PvP it is a Godsend.

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2010.01.29 11:09:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Stuart Price

Since it's not top secret (it's been posted before, I just modified it slightly), here you go:

4 x Gat Pulse II (Scorch 95% of the time, faction MF the rest)

1 x Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thruster
1 x Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

1 x Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
1 x SAR II
1 x ANP II
1 x Heat Sink II

1 x Burst Aerator I
1 x Collision Accelerator I


Looks like it would die horribly against a neut/web or neut/AB rifter. Confused

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2010.01.29 11:13:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Looks like it would die horribly against a neut/web or neut/AB rifter. Confused

Depends if neut will have enough time to take effect, but id always go for it in neut rifter if i saw sader mwding /vs ab sader its suicide/.

Shiroi Okami
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.01.29 11:42:00 - [27]
 

The best non faction dogfighters out there are (In this order) The Taranis, Claw, and crusader. The dramiel does what all three can do but better. But it's more than three times to cost of any, so its a tradeoff.

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.01.29 12:24:00 - [28]
 

Daredevil might be it for pure 1v1's but there's no such thing - so Dramiel. Both are already pretty well feared though.

The DeathClaw
Posted - 2010.01.29 12:58:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: drones man
Originally by: Lillian Blu
Taranis.


/thread


That used to be the case before faction frigs. Now the dramiel is the best.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2010.01.29 13:39:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Stuart Price
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Would you be willing to share your fit? I gave up on the crusader and moved to the navy slicer because the locus fit wasn't working well for me on the crusader anymore, but I love the ship (and it's half the cost of a slicer to boot).


Since it's not top secret (it's been posted before, I just modified it slightly), here you go:

4 x Gat Pulse II (Scorch 95% of the time, faction MF the rest)

1 x Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thruster
1 x Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

1 x Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
1 x SAR II
1 x ANP II
1 x Heat Sink II

1 x Burst Aerator I
1 x Collision Accelerator I

Overload the crap out of the guns and repper for pretty much the entire fight, MWD and scram on approach. Against stuff that likes to scram, pretend to keep some distance but let them catch you, preferably on the edges of scram range so your 9km optimal comes into play before they get into optimal themselves.

Against Crows and stuff it's simple: overload, catch them, kill them.


Pretty similar to mine:

[Crusader, sader]
F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Small Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Gatling Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Gatling Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Gatling Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Gatling Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Small Energy Burst Aerator I
Small Energy Collision Accelerator I

I am cheaper on the DC and MWD :P


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