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blankseplocked Walking in Station, if you die while walking around, do you die die?
 
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Ammy Azimuth
Posted - 2010.01.18 01:54:00 - [1]
 

I remember reading in the backstory that external clone snapshots were unreliable and thus its why pods were so good since they could do the neural snapshot and inject the poison at the same instant your egg starts to crack.

How are they going to address this in Incarna?

Some more roleplaying backstory or is this gonna be incorporated into the gameplay that you can die die. Or have partial skill loss because of newer external clone snapshot devices?

Moni Toimikone
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.18 01:58:00 - [2]
 

I don't think that you can die in Incarna. Atleast I haven't heard of any plans to make combat inside stations possible.

Ammy Azimuth
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:01:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Ammy Azimuth on 18/01/2010 02:01:40
Edited by: Ammy Azimuth on 18/01/2010 02:01:22
Why not? Theres people. Eve is pvp. People kill each other. Pretty sure you can choke a b****.

Apollo Manton
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:02:00 - [4]
 

If you read into other info in Incarna you'll see there really shouldnt be anyway for you to die while in station. You cant die if no one can kill you so you shouldnt have to worry about it.

Ammy Azimuth
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:09:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Ammy Azimuth on 18/01/2010 02:09:31
Can I get a link to that info? Would be really nice. And I still don't see why you won't be able to die in station. You can strangle someone to death. You can shank someone with like a fork or pen thats shaved. I'd just like a roleplaying answer to this really, not a pure gameplay answer of thats not how it works.

Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:12:00 - [6]
 

dust people won't die, so i dont' see why we would.

Ammy Azimuth
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:16:00 - [7]
 

Really? What's the reasoning behind that? Just when I think about it, it doesn't make sense.

Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:20:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Really? What's the reasoning behind that? Just when I think about it, it doesn't make sense.


well baiscly they take out clones in dust, so if you die, you lose the memories of the past since you were out of your body.

but you don't die.

Were already in a clone, if we died I'm sure we have lots of backups around.

Pulivin Motic
Caldari
Outer Limits Trading Company
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:20:00 - [9]
 

what if my char has a heart attack while walking in stations.... DO I HAVE TO MAKE A NEW CHARACTER!?!?!?!?

Ammy Azimuth
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:25:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Peryner
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Really? What's the reasoning behind that? Just when I think about it, it doesn't make sense.


well baiscly they take out clones in dust, so if you die, you lose the memories of the past since you were out of your body.

but you don't die.

Were already in a clone, if we died I'm sure we have lots of backups around.


So are you saying its going to be a ghost in the shell explanation?

But instead replace the brain inside a shell with pod (brain) remote controlling an android avatar?

Hmm, that would make sense, but I haven't heard anything of it.

Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:28:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Originally by: Peryner
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Really? What's the reasoning behind that? Just when I think about it, it doesn't make sense.


well baiscly they take out clones in dust, so if you die, you lose the memories of the past since you were out of your body.

but you don't die.

Were already in a clone, if we died I'm sure we have lots of backups around.


So are you saying its going to be a ghost in the shell explanation?

But instead replace the brain inside a shell with pod (brain) remote controlling an android avatar?

Hmm, that would make sense, but I haven't heard anything of it.


no no I'm taking about what we have right now.

when you die, your memories and such are moved to a new clone of you.

wait did you know about this?

Anyways, it's the same thing, but in a pod we have the tech to download your brain right as your die.

I guess what I was thinking was that if you weren't hooked up to the brain scner in the pod, your new clone would jsut have all of the memories form before you left.
and maybe there is a device that records stuff that happens when your out of pods, and those memories are implanted once you wake up in your new clone.

Triple Entendre
Atrocity.
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:30:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Pulivin Motic
what if my char has a heart attack while walking in stations.... DO I HAVE TO MAKE A NEW CHARACTER!?!?!?!?


If it's a station in Motsu it'll be about 25 seconds until the Ninja Organ Harvesters run up to your body. Wink

Ammy Azimuth
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:35:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Ammy Azimuth on 18/01/2010 02:37:50
Edited by: Ammy Azimuth on 18/01/2010 02:37:07
Originally by: Peryner

no no I'm taking about what we have right now.

when you die, your memories and such are moved to a new clone of you.

wait did you know about this?

Anyways, it's the same thing, but in a pod we have the tech to download your brain right as your die.

I guess what I was thinking was that if you weren't hooked up to the brain scner in the pod, your new clone would jsut have all of the memories form before you left.
and maybe there is a device that records stuff that happens when your out of pods, and those memories are implanted once you wake up in your new clone.


Yea I know the backstory. But what we have now is that our pods take a snapshot of our brains the instant we die, while injecting a lethal neurotoxin that instantly kills us. This is determined when the egg starts cracking which means = dead.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/eggers/egg_02.asp

And if we applied the current clone technology to what would happen. What would happen is this.

You die in station. Theres no snapshot, no brain shot is taken of your clone. No brain image is transfered to your clone. Means = dead person. No more character.

It's like how the explanation is when you delete a character. "Uh oh there was an issue with the cloning transfer, your character is dead now."

And if what you said, is correct, you would lose sp as well since time has elapsed since you got out of the pod and you died.

Hmm, still doesn't make sense.


Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:42:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Edited by: Ammy Azimuth on 18/01/2010 02:37:50
Edited by: Ammy Azimuth on 18/01/2010 02:37:07
Originally by: Peryner

no no I'm taking about what we have right now.

when you die, your memories and such are moved to a new clone of you.

wait did you know about this?

Anyways, it's the same thing, but in a pod we have the tech to download your brain right as your die.

I guess what I was thinking was that if you weren't hooked up to the brain scner in the pod, your new clone would jsut have all of the memories form before you left.
and maybe there is a device that records stuff that happens when your out of pods, and those memories are implanted once you wake up in your new clone.


Yea I know the backstory. But what we have now is that our pods take a snapshot of our brains the instant we die, while injecting a lethal neurotoxin that instantly kills us. This is determined when the egg starts cracking which means = dead.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/eggers/egg_02.asp

And if we applied the current clone technology to what would happen. What would happen is this.

You die in station. Theres no snapshot, no brain shot is taken of your clone. No brain image is transfered to your clone. Means = dead person. No more character.

It's like how the explanation is when you delete a character. "Uh oh there was an issue with the cloning transfer, your character is dead now."

And if what you said, is correct, you would lose sp as well since time has elapsed since you got out of the pod and you died.

Hmm, still doesn't make sense.




well yeah you would lose sp.

I mean if you can take a snapshot of your brain I always assumed you could take that snapshot even if you weren't dead yet.

Ammy Azimuth
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:46:00 - [15]
 

This is the main paragraph of interest.

"Despite the advances made in cloning tech, in almost every single environment retransplantation of the mind at time of death is still risky ground. The crucial element in the process relies on a brain-scan snapshot being taken at the precise time of death and transmitted to the waiting clone, and so the transneural burning scanner required to do so needs to be mounted somewhere close to the person at all times. Since the snapshot itself causes massive physical damage to the gray matter, there can be no margin of error; it needs to be done at the exact time of death. In planetary vehicles, the cloning companies have experimented with mounting the transneural scanner in a variety of locations, but the almost limitless potentiality of planet-bound environments has proved time and again that it just isnít safe Ė snapshots either go off due to false stimuli, leaving healthy clients in a vegetative state, or fail to go off due to circumstances unforeseen by the safeguard mechanism, leaving clients dead with no chance of retransplantation."

So I'm just looking for explanation on how they going to do walking in station deaths.

Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.01.18 03:04:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
This is the main paragraph of interest.

"Despite the advances made in cloning tech, in almost every single environment retransplantation of the mind at time of death is still risky ground. The crucial element in the process relies on a brain-scan snapshot being taken at the precise time of death and transmitted to the waiting clone, and so the transneural burning scanner required to do so needs to be mounted somewhere close to the person at all times. Since the snapshot itself causes massive physical damage to the gray matter, there can be no margin of error; it needs to be done at the exact time of death. In planetary vehicles, the cloning companies have experimented with mounting the transneural scanner in a variety of locations, but the almost limitless potentiality of planet-bound environments has proved time and again that it just isnít safe Ė snapshots either go off due to false stimuli, leaving healthy clients in a vegetative state, or fail to go off due to circumstances unforeseen by the safeguard mechanism, leaving clients dead with no chance of retransplantation."

So I'm just looking for explanation on how they going to do walking in station deaths.


well

"in almost every single environment retransplantation of the mind at time of death is still risky ground."

so it's not risky if it's not at the time of death then right?

Ammy Azimuth
Posted - 2010.01.18 03:10:00 - [17]
 

Isn't that the main point of doing the cloning transfer though? At the point of death.

And at the end they give an example where they tried it on planets, but found it impractical. So do we just assume that is what would happen in station?

Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.01.18 03:11:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Peryner on 18/01/2010 03:11:13
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
Isn't that the main point of doing the cloning transfer though? At the point of death.

And at the end they give an example where they tried it on planets, but found it impractical. So do we just assume that is what would happen in station?


no way, it's called clone jumping we do it everyday without killing our old body.

Ammy Azimuth
Posted - 2010.01.18 03:22:00 - [19]
 

Ah right, Jump cloning. That's basically doing the scan without the poison to kill you, yea?

But how's that deal with the fact you need to scan before you're dead in a station?

I think what you're thinking is the backup clone has memories backed up periodically like how you backup files. But they explain it that the memories aren't stored from time to time.
http://www.eveonline.com/background/cloning/clon_03.asp

The clones are blank slates, and then they're overwritten and the synaptic connections are made when the snapshot is taken and the scan gets burned into the new clone.

They didn't formally explain the jump clones. But I assume they use a variant of that, where they just overwrite the synaptic connections each time you jump clone, scanning back and forth without adding the kill factor. And just keep them in sleep instead.

Audri Fisher
Caldari
Burning Bush Enterprises
Posted - 2010.01.18 03:30:00 - [20]
 

Advances in cloning technology since the back story was written.

Hienz Doofenshmirtz
Posted - 2010.01.18 03:51:00 - [21]
 

there have been many advances in cloning tech in the last 6 months, these will be explained in the new book being published soon. as to fighting in station it is restricted. we may be a bunch of blood thirsty jerks in space, but in front of the civs on the ground we act like the minor deity's we are

Aloriana Jacques
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2010.01.18 03:57:00 - [22]
 

No, you cannot die while running around stations in Incarna. The devs will not allow anybody to "kill the leader of a large alliance with a spoon", their words. Simply for the fact that while a pod pilot is not in their pod they are vulnerable, and death outside of the mind scan would be permanent.

The DUST method of cloning is a completely different cloning system than the one used by pod pilots and will be explained in detail in the upcoming EVE book.

Isurus Paucus
Posted - 2010.01.18 04:13:00 - [23]
 

No plans for combat in stations that I know of. And yeah, try not to look too closely at the means of immortality in-game. It's going for "sounds good" rather than "plausible" or even "possible."

LordSwift
Caldari
The Riot Act
Sacra Cupola
Posted - 2010.01.18 04:15:00 - [24]
 

Their is mention somewhere in the lore that the scan is done passively in normal situations, but this is not fast enough to do when in a combat situation. So a Snapshot is taken which scans everything at once.
So the way i think of it is that our brain state is constantly being saved as we go about our daily lives out of our capsule. So when we die this could be downloaded to an awaiting clone.

cal nereus
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.01.18 04:32:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Aloriana Jacques
No, you cannot die while running around stations in Incarna. The devs will not allow anybody to "kill the leader of a large alliance with a spoon", their words. Simply for the fact that while a pod pilot is not in their pod they are vulnerable, and death outside of the mind scan would be permanent.

The DUST method of cloning is a completely different cloning system than the one used by pod pilots and will be explained in detail in the upcoming EVE book.

Quoting this.
This is the only answer I need until Incarna actually comes out.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.01.18 05:41:00 - [26]
 

Snapshots

The scan done in a pod needs to be very quick, thus it is a destructive process. Clone jumps however use a slow process that is not damaging and the snapshot can be stored for later use.

Thus out-of-pod deaths for us capsuleers is not the final word.

Spoon scenario

In Incarna we will never be stepping outside of a high-security area and trying to spoon another capsuleer would likely get you killed quite quickly.

Getting killed would suck if the victim gets restored while your snapshot ends up being thrown in the recycling bin.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.01.18 06:03:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
I remember reading in the backstory that external clone snapshots were unreliable and thus its why pods were so good since they could do the neural snapshot and inject the poison at the same instant your egg starts to crack.

How are they going to address this in Incarna?

Some more roleplaying backstory or is this gonna be incorporated into the gameplay that you can die die. Or have partial skill loss because of newer external clone snapshot devices?


While walking in station, you wont be able to kill or be killed. That is what CCP have told in in earlier posts. The problem lies in cloning. As long you are in your ship you can clone, but out of your habitat - the pod - you are not able to clone. So if you die, you would die, and wether you have a clone or not wont help since the cloning would not be activated as long you are out of your pod.

At a later time though this might change.

Epegi Givo
Amarr
Department of Redundancy Dpt.
Posted - 2010.01.18 07:39:00 - [28]
 

New tech: Something that can take ranged snapshots anywhere in the station. Maybe getting killed while in station always has the effect of dying without an updated clone, because of minor inaccuracies of the safeguard.

Mister Xerox
Posted - 2010.01.18 08:13:00 - [29]
 

Simple: Neural Stack

A memory device that stores snapshots of key periods experienced by the pilot up to the point of death. It's a passive, slow process but it's as accurate as the flash-scan of a pod brain imager. It uses a small (approximately the size of you your thumb's first knuckle) quark-paired storage device to maintain your current scan at a remote location.

On death it would act the same as any other clone activation with, at most, a minor hiccup in memory lost due to loss of the hippocampus (SP) during or shortly prior to clinical death.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.01.18 08:13:00 - [30]
 

It was mentioned in an Eon story about a man who woke up and lost all of his SP and couldnt pilot anymore from his death in space. He tried to continue on living as a normal person and eventually came to terms that being normal wasnt all that bad. Then the clone company called saying that they fixed the problem the issue was that it would wipe all of his memories he gained since he awoke from dying last time. He then mentions this to his wife to be and then tells her about him remaining normal, the fiancee didnt take it to well and shot him.

Later he woke up remember him getting killed out in space and with all of his SP returned.

Im pertty sure Eon Stories are mostly cannon and from the sounds of it its possible to get cloned while getting killed out of your pod.

You also have to remember the up and comming Dust Marines are in essence like us, able to never truely die, well... as far as weve been told.


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