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Cecilia Syal
Minmatar
Blood Inquisition
Posted - 2010.01.15 12:03:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Cecilia Syal on 15/01/2010 12:07:35

Right now i am training for Minmatar ships & Amarr secondary. I'm "not" going to train: destroyers, electronic attack frigates, battleships, mining barges, indictors, hacs, exhumers etc, & only training industrial for Minmatar.

When i thought about it, the only ships i want are interceptors, assault frigates, covert ops, recon ships, logistics, and command ships.. so i marked a lot off my list to train.

Interceptors for when i need to tackle in pvp.
Assault frigates for small pvp gang ops. & heavy tackler
Covert ops for scouting or getting to 0.0 with bpc's etc.
Recon ships seem useful and nice & i love the bellicoise
Command ships look like a mean version of battlecruisers.
Also Logistics for boosting in gangs

I thought then if i keep to command ships maximum i can specialize faster & be a better pilot in a handfull of ships, right now since i'm new i do level 3 missions in a Bellicoise i could do level 4's with a friend in a command ship without leadership skills or a problem i am sure, so I marked off my list what I won't need...

Heavy Drones 5
Most Leadership skills
Large Laser/Projectile Turret 5 + no specializations
Cruise Missiles / Torpedo's 5 + no specializations
Battleship 5 for Amarr/Minmatar
Jump Drive Skills

Not a whole lot of skills, but I really don't like larger ships. do you think a lot more people are choosing not to go battleship+, dreads, carriers, etc. and do you think there will be any issues if i dont ?

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2010.01.15 12:52:00 - [2]
 

depends who you fly with, but your reasoning looks solid.

Harkwyth Mist
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.01.15 12:52:00 - [3]
 

Command Ships work much better when you have some leadership skills trained, maybe not personally for you, but the other people your fleeted with will notice the difference, you might want to think about adding those leadership skills to your training plan



theres nothing wrong in not wanting to fly BS+ sized ships

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.01.15 12:57:00 - [4]
 

You will need torpedoes if you fly stealthbombers.

Regardless if you want to or not you will be able to fly HACs as part of the skill tree for command ships.

Cecilia Syal
Minmatar
Blood Inquisition
Posted - 2010.01.15 13:46:00 - [5]
 

Not sure if i want Heavy Assault ships but just noticed Sleipneir needs it, so guess it just means slower progression to my final plan, i plan to get all these to level 4 then from bottom up get every ship to V, after i get gunnery specializations up to 4.

so i'll then start to get everything fully specialized to 5, from frigate guns to ships, then cruiser+ since eve is a long term game, wanted to figure it all out before i even train a battleship or heavy turret/drone skill i'll never use & hate seeing it at level 3 unable to delete, i just wanted to see if it was dumb, or else i would specialize less and go for BS to

Also thought stealth bombers use bombs for the version not fitted for scouting/scanning ?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.01.15 14:22:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Cecilia Syal
Also thought stealth bombers use bombs for the version not fitted for scouting/scanning ?


The Covert Ops ships used for scanning don't use any weapons at all. The stealth bombers use both torpedoes and bombs.

Juwi Kotch
KOTCH Construction and Anchoring
Posted - 2010.01.15 14:42:00 - [7]
 

I myself haven't bought a battleship skillbook before I was around 60 mil SP, and I only bought it, because I want to be able to fly all Gallente ships, what in the end led to battleship lvl5 to be able to fly the Marauder and Black Ops.

Now the Dominix is my bread-and-butter utility ship when I need to shoot something.

I did fine without that for many years.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.01.15 15:55:00 - [8]
 

I decided never to train the BS skill a year and a half ago – haven't had any reason to change my mind so far.

Yarinor
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.16 04:00:00 - [9]
 

Well, you don't have to train a battleship, but I just quote the good old

"Sometimes, battleship is not an option".

And really, maxing battleships is only like 4m sp.

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2010.01.16 13:35:00 - [10]
 

You dont really need battleships but they are often useful because they give you tons of EHP and DPS for your buck. They are also considerably cheaper than CS (insurance). If you find yourself in situations where you often need lots of DPS and EHP, battleships is a better choice than commandships except you dont know where to put all your ISK.

Mona X
Caldari
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.01.16 13:37:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Mona X on 16/01/2010 13:37:08
...

Myn Daern
Posted - 2010.01.18 12:24:00 - [12]
 

I'm with the same logic TBH

Battleships are not the way I want to fly in eve, big ships have there place, but small ships are just as fun, especially CovOps Very Happy

I say good for you in your choice,

Myn Daern

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.01.19 03:58:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 19/01/2010 03:59:13

Nobody mentioned Strategic Cruisers? Battleships in cruiser-sized packages.

Well, not quite, but they can certainly do level 4 missions.


Robert Hansson
Caldari
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2010.01.19 10:00:00 - [14]
 

Well, you don't need to fly battleships..
The thing is that battleships does lvl 4 missions better or at least as good as a command ship, and are easier to train for and cheaper. (both are important factors)

The thing is, no matter what you do, you will need to make money someway and that is the biggest factor ever, bigger then everything else, cause isk gives you ships to pvp and have fun in, isk gives you a choice.

Anyway.. there are some things that only battleships does,
1 Fleet snipers, now days hacs are more used but battleships still have more range and dmg even if they are less agile.
2 Remote reppers, here a command ship would do, but not to many of them (sure a damnation is good to have but you don't need 5 of them) also logistics can be used here but both of those cost more then a battleship (and if you show up in a RR Fleet with an battlecruiser you fail to see the point and are going to die).

I wouldn't recommend anyone form skipping battleships but if you want to do that, then it is doable but difficult (specially as both minmatar and amarr Field command ships are gun dependent and for that matter not so good in missions)

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.01.19 15:03:00 - [15]
 

I dont particularly like flying battleships either, but the plain fact is that for some situations you need to be able to bring the heavy metal.

Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.01.19 17:29:00 - [16]
 

Whilst I understand why you want to skip them, to a great extent what you are going to do is miss out on one of the main bread and butter ships that all combat orientated EvE Pilots must fly.

Frigate - Cruiser - BC - Battleship

I think to be honest should all be trained. It's the tech 2 ships that you should pick and choose.

But you can do what you want, your game, your character and if you want to do it, go for it.

Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2010.01.19 18:27:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
I dont particularly like flying battleships either, but the plain fact is that for some situations you need to be able to bring the heavy metal.
Agreed.

They can be surprisingly flexible in the right situations, and pretty cheap to lose when tied into the right corp ship replacement schemes, having said that I suspect many corps won't expect you to have them depending on what they do and it sounds like you want to be ones that don't use them.

While a BS is nice for missions there are other options that do almost as well and for ratting other ships will suffice, though maybe not earn you quite as much as a BS.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.01.19 19:48:00 - [18]
 

It's worth noting that if you can fly a T2-fitted Cruiser, then you're only going to have to invest about 1.6M SP to be able to use a T2-fitted battleship moderately well (Large Turret V, BS IV, 2x large turret spec III). That's pretty much exactly a month of training. Not so much, really.

Once you can fly a fully T2 Battlecruiser or HAC, I think that's a month well invested.

cal nereus
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.01.19 19:57:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: cal nereus on 19/01/2010 20:00:56

The ships you are training for are great. Minmatar/Amarr 'Ceptors, Covert Ops, Recons, Command Ships, and Logistics are all useful. You'll be well liked in gang PvP, for sure.

Battleships are the bread and butter of fleet PvP, but if you're only roaming in gangs or sitting on a gate, you don't necessarily need to train it. The jump from Command Ship to Battleship isn't that far, though. It's up to you.

For all the other ships, it's the same story. If you don't want to train it, you don't have to. Ask your Corporation/Alliance what exactly they are looking for, and if you can focus exclusively on the ships you want to fly. Personally, I think you'll be alright, given the right circumstances.

Incipus
Posted - 2010.01.19 20:00:00 - [20]
 

Just one thing to be aware of:

The ships you plan on flying are not very insurable, so their loss is expensive. Even the smallest ship probably costs more to lose than a battleship hull.

Battleships(for the ISK) really do bring a lot to the table... Especially now that t2 is even more expensive.

Yarinor
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.20 10:41:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
It's worth noting that if you can fly a T2-fitted Cruiser, then you're only going to have to invest about 1.6M SP to be able to use a T2-fitted battleship moderately well (Large Turret V, BS IV, 2x large turret spec III). That's pretty much exactly a month of training. Not so much, really.

Once you can fly a fully T2 Battlecruiser or HAC, I think that's a month well invested.


While I agree the battleship train should be done you're forgetting that large turret specs require sharpshooter/motion prediction, that's around 800k sp in addition to what you had.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.01.20 11:18:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Yarinor
Originally by: Malcanis
It's worth noting that if you can fly a T2-fitted Cruiser, then you're only going to have to invest about 1.6M SP to be able to use a T2-fitted battleship moderately well (Large Turret V, BS IV, 2x large turret spec III). That's pretty much exactly a month of training. Not so much, really.

Once you can fly a fully T2 Battlecruiser or HAC, I think that's a month well invested.


While I agree the battleship train should be done you're forgetting that large turret specs require sharpshooter/motion prediction, that's around 800k sp in addition to what you had.


I should have been more clear: 1.6M SP on skills that are only useful in a battleship.

Those skills are useful for all turrets. In fact I would say that motion prediction 5 is mandatory for any T2 gunner. IMO it is the second gunnery support skill you should train to 5, after Weapon Upgrades.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.01.20 20:58:00 - [23]
 

I only got into battleships after like 1.5 years. Well, I took level 2 in the skill at some point but never actually flew them. For PVE you'll want a battleship to run through level 4's quickly though, but you can certainly do with only a moderate amount of sp, especially if you crosstrain caldari for that purpose (not a big effort as a minmatar pilot, you already have shield tanking and missile skills).

Once you have alot of support skills, battleships really start to shine though. I kinda like them now.

Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2010.01.21 04:46:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Kessiaan on 21/01/2010 04:47:59
I didn't train Battleships 'till this character was two years old and the only thing I needed to be a good BS pilot was Gallente BS V and Large Hybrids V.

The only thing you'll miss out on if you hold out on battleships for a long time is lv. 4 missions. I hate missions and always have so I've never depended on them for income, thus this wasn't a problem for me.

I actually suggest to people they hold off on battleships. Support skills are huge at the BS level - a well-fit BS flown by an experienced pilot with solid support skills is very powerful. In the hands of a rookie pilot they lack the grid for a decent fit, can't hit anything, don't do any damage even when they do manage to hit something, and can't tank well. It's like night and day.

Draulin
Independent Faction
Posted - 2010.01.22 06:19:00 - [25]
 

I've very happy doing everything from L4s to C3s in my Nighthawk. I'd say you wont be terribly unhappy in Command Ships.

Hound Halfhand
Minmatar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2010.01.22 19:58:00 - [26]
 

I am the exact opposite and ran right to battleships when I first started playing, and I lost a ton of Ravens doing so but I was determined. Very Happy

I cannot stand flying around in frigates and cruisers, have little interest in T2 ships and basically won't do anything that requires me to fly a frigate. I even purchase books in a Raven sometimes. Smile

I sometimes do settle for battle cruisers when someone insists on it however I always end up back in a battleship. In the end its all about what makes you happy. I pay $14.95/month to enjoy myself not work a 2nd job. I simply won't join a corp or pick a profession that requires frigates, cruisers and small T2 ships. It hasn't seemed to hurt me at all.

Darthewok
Perkone
Posted - 2010.01.23 03:14:00 - [27]
 

BS is the MONSTER TRUCK of EVE.
u know u want 2.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2010.01.25 08:51:00 - [28]
 

tbh just look at what you want and train that, don't worry about what you don't need.

although tbh if there is a spot for a ship it is likely on my training list. and well pretty much all the ships in the race/class you mentioned are there somewhere. that should keep ya busy for a while.

I really like the way Kessiaan put it, if you get all that stuff done you are essentially bs 5/large turret5 away from being a perfect bs pilot.

although when you say most leadership skills what do you mean by that? having skirmish and armor warfare links available is rather nice. (also nice to have info and shield to at least 4)


 

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