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Nahia Senne
Gallente
Initium Malum
Posted - 2010.01.11 07:11:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Hahahaha, I really hope yall believe this.


Don't be delusional.

Sator deHarak
Caldari
Templars of Space
Posted - 2010.01.11 07:15:00 - [62]
 

I have no idea what you all are complaining about, this thread delivered what you'd expect in a decent caod thread: hijinks, humiliation, and peter quarsama being a raving ******.

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2010.01.11 07:22:00 - [63]
 

wow, don't the goons understand why they're in 49- repping a station? lolz


Moon Kitten
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.11 07:23:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Agaue

I know I am going to regret trying to discuss anything with goons on CAOD, but here goes.

Originally by: Petar Quaresma
How would you know about sov mechanics? All the systems you claimed were basically handed to you without a fight.


This statement is wrong on two fronts, the first is sov mechanics is the process of placing SBU's, reinforcing ihubs/stations if present, and then killing TCU and finally placing your own TCU. If there are no hostiles there then a system can be taken without a fight, but you still get a good knowledge of sov mechanics. Not all the station systems IT have taken in fountain were sov neutral.

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Almost like you have to have superiority over the enemy to take their system. ****ing amazing concept.


if you define superiority as having more numbers than the defending alliance for more than 4 days consecutively, then your statement has merit. however due to the timezone differences this is extremely difficult. For example, I doubt there is one european based station holding alliance that goons could outnumber for more than 4 consecutive days. Though this doesnt mean that goons are less "superior" than all european based station holding alliances.

Originally by: Moon Kitten
Not thinking it through? You're the one not thinking. The alternative is station ping pong. CCP moved away from station ping pong for a reason. Station ping pong doesn't work very well with the treaties feature CCP plans to add. Ergo you're dumb.


I did not mention station ping pong, only you did, and if station ping pong is the only solution that you can think of then you shouldnt comment on sov. Just a few example off the top of my head could be;
1) introducing a stront type timer for stations/ihubs, so attacking alliances could "kite" the reinforce timers of stations/ihubs.
2) make the reinforcement timers on stations/ihubs more random (ie. +/- 8 hours of the defenders desired reinforcement time.
3) both of the above ideas combined.
4) move back to only 1 reinforement timer on stations/ihubs instead of 2.
5) have a single "sovereignty" POS.

The current sov system is better than station ping pong or POS spamming, but is too heavily tilted to the defenders advantage, and is leading to the massive battles we are seeing at the moment (which imo would be a good thing if the servers could handle them).

Now feel free to spam away.

You shouldn't comment on sov if you mention 8+- timers as a proposal. Did you miss part about system infrastructure upgrades? The new infrastructure hub? CCP put in several reinforce timers to promote stability. Take a look at the larger picture.

Why would anyone upgrades their system if there's a chance that their sov would end up being timed 8 hours before(when they are at work) or after(when they are sleeping) their prime time. CCP wants 0.0 to have more people in it, not less.

It's the economy, stupid.

Moon Kitten
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.11 07:28:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Moon Kitten on 11/01/2010 07:28:34
Originally by: Butter Dog
wow, don't the goons understand why they're in 49- repping a station? lolz

probably because mercenary coalition killed aaa from the inside

edit: or well what was left of it

Hawkcrest
Caldari
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.01.11 07:58:00 - [66]
 

Nice fights, I dont know the overall numbers but here was my corps Goonies

w0rmy
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.01.11 08:03:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Petar Quaresma
How would you know about sov mechanics? All the systems you claimed were basically handed to you without a fight.



Sorry, I missed the first page, are we talking about delve?




Petar Quaresma
Caldari
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2010.01.11 08:08:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Hawkcrest
Nice fights, I dont know the overall numbers but here was my corps Goonies


My corp was at least 5:0 KD ratio

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.11 08:13:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: Petar Quaresma
How would you know about sov mechanics? All the systems you claimed were basically handed to you without a fight.



Sorry, I missed the first page, are we talking about delve?






Sorry dude you should go back a page where your alliance m8m8m8m8m8m8m says your alliance was not involved in Delve.

w0rmy
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.01.11 08:17:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: Petar Quaresma
How would you know about sov mechanics? All the systems you claimed were basically handed to you without a fight.



Sorry, I missed the first page, are we talking about delve?






Sorry dude you should go back a page where your alliance m8m8m8m8m8m8m says your alliance was not involved in Delve.



Thats very lovely, completely unrelated to my post, but lovely all the same Confused



EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.11 08:20:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: Petar Quaresma
How would you know about sov mechanics? All the systems you claimed were basically handed to you without a fight.



Sorry, I missed the first page, are we talking about delve?






Sorry dude you should go back a page where your alliance m8m8m8m8m8m8m says your alliance was not involved in Delve.



Thats very lovely, completely unrelated to my post, but lovely all the same Confused





Well since it was a goon talking about someone else being given systems and the only two entities to own delve are us and Bobitzoku either you were trying to make his post mean something it didn't mean or you're stupid. Which is it :)

Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2010.01.11 08:26:00 - [72]
 

The iHUB is still reinforced in it's second timer tho. When it comes out of reinforced and attacker manages to drop new SBU's then he does not need to start from zero. The reinforcement timer of iHUB tho is still somewhat uncomfortable for EU timezone. On the other hand it's not that comfortable for US timezone either. More like Australian timezone or something like that ;)

And I do agree to statements that new sov stuff sucks damn hard. POS spam was crap way to do it but current system seems to be even worse (from the grunts perspective, I'm sure those who did all the hauling under last system are still dancing in joy).

w0rmy
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.01.11 08:29:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources

Well since it was a goon talking about someone else being given systems and the only two entities to own delve are us and Bobitzoku either you were trying to make his post mean something it didn't mean or you're stupid. Which is it :)


Good to see the trolls are hungry this evening Laughing


You wouldnt by chance be implying you earnt delve would you Question


Tzujeih
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2010.01.11 08:30:00 - [74]
 

Allow all stations to be blown the **** up, and add station services in the form of pos modules.

Zaeyla
Minmatar
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2010.01.11 09:23:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: w0rmy

You wouldnt by chance be implying you earnt delve would you Question



You have "earnt" an "A" in English in my book.

xttz
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.11 09:52:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: xttz on 11/01/2010 09:52:00
Originally by: w0rmy

You wouldnt by chance be implying you earnt delve would you Question


Hey we put loads of effort into conquering Delve. Much like yourselves in taking all those SoT stations.

Kola XXX
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Aeternus.
Posted - 2010.01.11 09:52:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Zaeyla
Originally by: w0rmy

You wouldnt by chance be implying you earnt delve would you Question



You have "earnt" an "A" in English in my book.



Zaeyla
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm

about your book ...

Vom Kriege
Amarr
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:02:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: w0rmy

You wouldnt by chance be implying you earnt delve would you Question




We rather had a lot more ~good fights~ but leveling the battlefield by a single press of a buttan was enough to make thousands of ~elite pvp'ers~ run back to empire for shelter.

Scavok
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:08:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Scavok on 11/01/2010 10:14:38
If you think it's difficult to take space from us now, just imagine under the old system. Bridges under cynojammers that supercapitals could fit through, cynojammers in every system in range of stain, and sov 4 in every constellation with a station. Even if you did manage to put together a big enough coalition that you could beat us in any timezone, under that system it still would have taken you probably a year to take our 43 stations.

Also look at the other side. The only people whining about the mechanics are the people we're fighting because they happen to be on the offensive right now, but it's exactly the same for us. The only difference is that we'll NEVER take a station under these mechanics because every other alliance in 0.0 has a European primetime. At least as a european alliance you can attack any alliance in 0.0 besides us and they'll likely share your primetime.

Originally by: Dark Sidhe
LOL Farham.

Lots of losses on both sides (check)
Good guys held the field with each battle (check)
Strategic objective met (check)

Its been reported by folks on both sides that lots of losses never generated mails. I know because my Claw mail never appeared-folks on the other side said the same. Even assuming (had all mails registered) that Goons killed more ships, we held the field and completed the r/f of the iHub.

There, that should be clear enough for you to understand.


You guys got smoked while having a numerical advantage of around 150. It wasn't only goonswarm lossmails that failed to generate. You have like 7 alliances here so the goonswarm killboard is by far the most accurate. Suck it up. We didn't fully commit to accomplish the strategic objective since it wasn't worth triggering an even cap fight when we knew the next day you wouldn't be able to get even half of the numbers you did. We're not going to make this fun for you at all.

RabbitofDoom
Caldari
Death Wish.
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:11:00 - [80]
 

Its simple station systems must be conquerable within 72h window. Curent sov mechanic is about who will get bored/runs out of ships first.

Scavok
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:16:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Scavok on 11/01/2010 10:16:13
Originally by: RabbitofDoom
Its simple station systems must be conquerable within 72h window. Curent sov mechanic is about who will get bored/runs out of ships first.


Yeah that'd be nice for weekend warrior coalitions like the one you've put together, wouldn't it? Attrition and dedication sound like much better factors in determining who gets to own a station to me.

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:19:00 - [82]
 

The current sov system wouldnt be terrible if there was slightly more timer variance. A maximum of 5 hours either side would be about right, and allow fights in the transitional zone of timezones.

As it currently stands, an EU or US based alliance has zero chance of taking a station from an opposite TZ entity, if the defenders are even moderately competent. Allowing 'timezone blur' (not taking it away from the defender completely) would be a good thing.

But yeah, the current system is terrible, you can't even kite the timers.

I'll give you an example - if Goonswarm attacked a small alliance like Coven in an ~honourable~ 1-on-1 fight, they would have zero chance of taking stations simply because they cannot get numbers in the very small window permitted.

RabbitofDoom
Caldari
Death Wish.
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:28:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: RabbitofDoom on 11/01/2010 10:29:46
Edited by: RabbitofDoom on 11/01/2010 10:29:02
Originally by: Scavok
Edited by: Scavok on 11/01/2010 10:16:13
Originally by: RabbitofDoom
Its simple station systems must be conquerable within 72h window. Curent sov mechanic is about who will get bored/runs out of ships first.


Yeah that'd be nice for weekend warrior coalitions like the one you've put together, wouldn't it? Attrition and dedication sound like much better factors in determining who gets to own a station to me.


You are actualy aware that averange age of eve player is higher than in most of mmo. My GF would forgive me playing at 4 am in the morning during weekend from time to time. Playing eve is a poor excuse to give a boss when explaining why you were not at work on monday. Atrition maybe no life mode no, i sub to eve because its not another stupid must be nolife to get anywhere mmo.

Gryana
Gallente
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:36:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Scavok
Edited by: Scavok on 11/01/2010 10:14:38
If you think it's difficult to take space from us now, just imagine under the old system. Bridges under cynojammers that supercapitals could fit through, cynojammers in every system in range of stain, and sov 4 in every constellation with a station. Even if you did manage to put together a big enough coalition that you could beat us in any timezone, under that system it still would have taken you probably a year to take our 43 stations.

Also look at the other side. The only people whining about the mechanics are the people we're fighting because they happen to be on the offensive right now, but it's exactly the same for us. The only difference is that we'll NEVER take a station under these mechanics because every other alliance in 0.0 has a European primetime. At least as a european alliance you can attack any alliance in 0.0 besides us and they'll likely share your primetime.

Originally by: Dark Sidhe
LOL Farham.

Lots of losses on both sides (check)
Good guys held the field with each battle (check)
Strategic objective met (check)

Its been reported by folks on both sides that lots of losses never generated mails. I know because my Claw mail never appeared-folks on the other side said the same. Even assuming (had all mails registered) that Goons killed more ships, we held the field and completed the r/f of the iHub.

There, that should be clear enough for you to understand.


You guys got smoked while having a numerical advantage of around 150. It wasn't only goonswarm lossmails that failed to generate. You have like 7 alliances here so the goonswarm killboard is by far the most accurate. Suck it up. We didn't fully commit to accomplish the strategic objective since it wasn't worth triggering an even cap fight when we knew the next day you wouldn't be able to get even half of the numbers you did. We're not going to make this fun for you at all.


Scavok you're delusional, but then this is CAOD so you're prolly just trolling. You didn't trigger a cap fight because apart from the first day the good guys didn't use caps.

The coalition held the system for almost the whole weekend, and only when we went to get a fight and RF IHUBs in Catch did you get a look in. Then you blockade the system and remove the numerical advantage as they couldn't jump back in. 250 in fleet 150 out of system, V 3-400 of you.

You're right that this version of Sov warfare is an improvment on the previous POS bashing.

Scavok
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:36:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: RabbitofDoom
Edited by: RabbitofDoom on 11/01/2010 10:29:46
Edited by: RabbitofDoom on 11/01/2010 10:29:02
Originally by: Scavok
Edited by: Scavok on 11/01/2010 10:16:13
Originally by: RabbitofDoom
Its simple station systems must be conquerable within 72h window. Curent sov mechanic is about who will get bored/runs out of ships first.


Yeah that'd be nice for weekend warrior coalitions like the one you've put together, wouldn't it? Attrition and dedication sound like much better factors in determining who gets to own a station to me.


You are actualy aware that averange age of eve player is higher than in most of mmo. My GF would forgive me playing at 4 am in the morning during weekend from time to time. Playing eve is a poor excuse to give a boss when explaining why you were not at work on monday. Atrition maybe no life mode no, i sub to eve because its not another stupid must be nolife to get anywhere mmo.


Then recruit americans or attack a european alliance.

Kayl Breinhar
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:42:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 11/01/2010 10:43:56
Originally by: w0rmy
You wouldnt by chance be implying you earnt delve would you Question

~500 dead towers in two weeks, moving our entire alliance and assets halfway across the "galaxy" in the space of 48 hours at the drop of a hat, marshaling allies to conduct 23/7 ops, establishing and maintaining a camp on your NPC "bunker" station non-stop for nearly a month...not to mention stay alive merely for the chance to **** in your cereal bowl for trying to make us your scapegoats for everything that was wrong with EVE so people wouldn't notice the corruption in BoB?

Yeah, we totally didn't earn Delve.

But we are *horrible* at this game. The biggest irony is that if you guys weren't so vain and bitterness-prone your chestbeating and posturing wouldn't have given us the desire to stick around and "ruin your game" as you're so fond of saying.

Scavok
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2010.01.11 10:44:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Gryana

Scavok you're delusional, but then this is CAOD so you're prolly just trolling. You didn't trigger a cap fight because apart from the first day the good guys didn't use caps.

The coalition held the system for almost the whole weekend, and only when we went to get a fight and RF IHUBs in Catch did you get a look in. Then you blockade the system and remove the numerical advantage as they couldn't jump back in. 250 in fleet 150 out of system, V 3-400 of you.

You're right that this version of Sov warfare is an improvment on the previous POS bashing.


So pretty much you spent your whole weekend spinning spaceships in a mostly undefended system, lost a lot of ships and killed few when you reinforced the ihub despite having the numerical advantage, and then inevitably you failed strategically. What point are you trying to make?

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2010.01.11 11:40:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Scavok
you failed strategically. What point are you trying to make?


The point is you don't seem to understand the purpose of the assault on 49- Laughing

Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.11 11:58:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: RabbitofDoom
Its simple station systems must be conquerable within 72h window. Curent sov mechanic is about who will get bored/runs out of ships first.


72 hours seems like a pretty random number, why not 2 hours or 102?

Unless you have some ulterior motive for suggesting 72 hours. Hrmm.

Kayl Breinhar
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.11 12:01:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Scavok
you failed strategically. What point are you trying to make?


The point is you don't seem to understand the purpose of the assault on 49- Laughing

Let me guess. It probably was:

"Let's attack 49-U again and force teh goonies to abandon PL and SoT which we can harp on and fail to troll them about for weeks/months."

But when PL imploded it became the ol' faithful:

"We were testing your response time/defenses/morale/fleet composition/tactics!"

Butter Dog, ladies and gentlemen. EVE's Fredo.


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