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Gaufres
Posted - 2010.01.08 21:10:00 - [1]
 

I would like to see all the miners withhold selling of any minerals for a period of 2 months or more. The economy would grind to a halt without us.

Unfortunately, we miners are a independent bunch and would not band together to do this, be imagine the result.

Koldosa
Posted - 2010.01.08 21:27:00 - [2]
 

It's all a part of the NEW GALACTIC ORDER's plan to turn us against each other... this man is right... people should be stockpiling tritanium right now. A noob labor union is in order as well!

Olvel
Posted - 2010.01.08 21:36:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Gaufres
I would like to see all the miners withhold selling of any minerals for a period of 2 months or more. The economy would grind to a halt without us.

Unfortunately, we miners are a independent bunch and would not band together to do this, be imagine the result.

Seriously?

Any miner worth his exhumer is going to make a killing off of this.

It isn't hard to avoid being ganked. I've dodged several gank attempts myself (not during this Hulkageddon thing, mind you, I'm too smart to undock a ship with a giant "Kick Me" sign strapped to it).

With the herd thinned a bit, there'll be less competition on the market. And with so many ships being destroyed, there'll be increased demand for minerals. Which means that miners should be able to turn a tidy profit over the next couple of weeks, if they aren't already doing so.

Why on earth would I withhold selling my minerals? So I can miss out on the huge windfall? So I can slightly inconvenience some industrialist who's trying to cash in on all these destroyed ships? So I can tack a few ISK onto the pricetag of some ganker's new ship?

And all for what - to get back at someone for organizing one hell of a community event that's given me a terrific opportunity to make tons of ISK?

Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Posted - 2010.01.08 21:38:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Gaufres
I would like to see all the miners withhold selling of any minerals for a period of 2 months or more. The economy would grind to a halt without us.

Unfortunately, we miners are a independent bunch and would not band together to do this, be imagine the result.


The economy depends on PvP, not mining. PvP is where the demand comes from.

Other sources of minerals:

Mission reprocess loot
Drones

What it would do is raise mineral prices. If they raised enough, producers would stop or slow down production on T1 stuff. Lower supply with the same demand would likely raise T1 prices. If they rise too high people would switch to named/T2 modules or T2 ships. Skill requirements can be limiting for those, though, so some would switch down to smaller ships.

If PvP stopped, though, the economy would grind to a halt.

Mad Constructor
Mad Industrys
Posted - 2010.01.08 21:40:00 - [5]
 

Sure mineral prices would rise... but missions runners would produce enough from reprocessing loot to keep the game going.

That and theirs probably enough minerals in storage to fuel all real losses (no insurance fraud) for several months.

Shaaktii
Posted - 2010.01.10 00:18:00 - [6]
 

As a miner, im glad that so many ships are being taken out. Ive been watching the Hulkageddon kill boards with great anticipation. Hopefully people will continue to do this for fun for a long time after its over. Hit those macro miners where it hurts.

Forum Reprentative
Posted - 2010.01.10 05:15:00 - [7]
 

All miners should move to run missions.

they'd earn more Isk, get more fun, be more safe from gankers, and the minerals from the loot would be far more than enough to cover demand.

mining is a dead profession, its a matter of time.

S'totan
Minmatar
Impending Judgement
Scelus Sceleris.
Posted - 2010.01.10 07:01:00 - [8]
 

The vast majority of minerals in the game come from drone regions and lvl 4 mission loot. Sorry to tell ya.

TwoThree
Posted - 2010.01.10 14:32:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Gaufres

If PvP stopped, though, the economy would grind to a halt.



i wouldnt say just pvp, i mean dont get me wrong pvp is a good part of the Economy but after watch "EVE Online Fanfest 2009 - The Economy" on youtube, theres more to eve Economy then just pvp ship supplies. mining and R&D help to make PvP supplies and POS etc. but each to there own.

Daenosa
Ghost Festival
Posted - 2010.01.10 22:51:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: S'totan
The vast majority of minerals in the game come from drone regions and lvl 4 mission loot. Sorry to tell ya.

the only CCP quote i have seen regarding this is the opposite.
PVPers need the miners and the miners need the PVPers

Mcfarlen
Caldari
Corax.
New Eden Retail Federation
Posted - 2010.01.11 01:08:00 - [11]
 

I really doubt see why theres this huge debate in economy of getting rid of or not getting rid of mining. I like the fact that corps can self sustain themselves by having mining operations to make ships and fittings while their pvpers go get themselves blown up (although that's not the goal). But yes id love to see this "stop mining" thing and see how the pvpers survive when they go dock and find out the only available ship for sale is 11 jumps away.

So in a way i do agree with Gaufres. Something i noticed quite recently, the price of hulks doubles from November. I dont know if its jsut alot of people not making um or if in fact people are destroying them faster. But what if every ship was twice the price? How would new people come to eve and survive? Stop with the carebear bs... we need um. Who else will we gank?

James Tritanius
Posted - 2010.01.11 04:46:00 - [12]
 

It's okay, guys. The miners will never get organized. Industry is a competitive profession; there will always be greedy people who want to use this opportunity to turn over a giant profit than the "sticking it to the pvp'ers" thing that they don't even care about.

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.01.11 07:33:00 - [13]
 

The fact that even killing a thousand exhumers (and indeed we are perilously close to that) does not affect mineral prices in the slightest highlights the grievous and ludicrous fact that most mineral don't, in fact, come from miners.

The related dev blog (cba to go dig it out) indicates that about 42% comes from miners the rest coming from reprocessed mission loot and drone compounds from the drone regions.

I believe this is a terrible, terrible design error in EVE and it should be corrected so that mining once again becomes the principle source of minerals.

Contrary to what people believe (and my semi roleplay games) I do not hate miners at all, but I do hate people that think they should play the game AFK and rake in tons of cash at no risk at all.

What I want are the following things:

-L4 income nerfed, t1 drops removed. Greatly removing mineral income from this source, making mining more profitable
-Mining mechanics altered to require actual attention and engagement from the player for optimal yield, no more AFK mining
-Low sec buffed to make it worth the risk of braving the piracy to engage in "carebear" activities (means we no longer have to go into highsec to shoot people ffs)
-A more concerted effort by CCP to get rid of macro miners, since we find dozens and dozens each day during this event.
-A good, long, hard look at ALL the bizarre side effects of the insurance system (free ganking, poopy value-for-isk on T2 ships, artificial price ceilings)

I know I put on quite a show on the forums and blogosphere, this is of course to motivate my participants and to present my character as the Devil of New Eden (hey, I deserve *something* for my efforts, even if it is notoriety), but I am certainly not stupid or crazy and I hope my event serves to highlight some of these unaddressed issues with our favorite game.

Walking in stations is nice and swell, but I'd rather have CCP fix some of the glaring problems that have been wrong with EVE for years now.

I hope this clarifies the situation a bit for the more angry amongst you :)


Captn Charisma
Posted - 2010.01.11 08:12:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Captn Charisma on 11/01/2010 08:15:36
Originally by: Helicity Boson
The fact that even killing a thousand exhumers (and indeed we are perilously close to that) does not affect mineral prices in the slightest highlights the grievous and ludicrous fact that most mineral don't, in fact, come from miners.

The related dev blog (cba to go dig it out) indicates that about 42% comes from miners the rest coming from reprocessed mission loot and drone compounds from the drone regions.

I believe this is a terrible, terrible design error in EVE and it should be corrected so that mining once again becomes the principle source of minerals.

Contrary to what people believe (and my semi roleplay games) I do not hate miners at all, but I do hate people that think they should play the game AFK and rake in tons of cash at no risk at all.

What I want are the following things:

-L4 income nerfed, t1 drops removed. Greatly removing mineral income from this source, making mining more profitable
-Mining mechanics altered to require actual attention and engagement from the player for optimal yield, no more AFK mining
-Low sec buffed to make it worth the risk of braving the piracy to engage in "carebear" activities (means we no longer have to go into highsec to shoot people ffs)
-A more concerted effort by CCP to get rid of macro miners, since we find dozens and dozens each day during this event.
-A good, long, hard look at ALL the bizarre side effects of the insurance system (free ganking, poopy value-for-isk on T2 ships, artificial price ceilings)

I know I put on quite a show on the forums and blogosphere, this is of course to motivate my participants and to present my character as the Devil of New Eden (hey, I deserve *something* for my efforts, even if it is notoriety), but I am certainly not stupid or crazy and I hope my event serves to highlight some of these unaddressed issues with our favorite game.

Walking in stations is nice and swell, but I'd rather have CCP fix some of the glaring problems that have been wrong with EVE for years now.

I hope this clarifies the situation a bit for the more angry amongst you :)




Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Polly Prissypantz
Dingleberry Appreciation Society
Posted - 2010.01.11 09:30:00 - [15]
 

Quote:
What the Miners response to hulkageddon should be

"Meh" is the appropriate response. If there's one thing constant about these forum posting attention wh*re gankers, it's having an attention span of a 5 year old suffering ADD.

My Postman
Posted - 2010.01.11 12:03:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: My Postman on 11/01/2010 12:17:01
Originally by: Helicity Boson
The fact that even killing a thousand exhumers (and indeed we are perilously close to that) does not affect mineral prices in the slightest highlights the grievous and ludicrous fact that most mineral don't, in fact, come from miners.

The related dev blog (cba to go dig it out) indicates that about 42% comes from miners the rest coming from reprocessed mission loot and drone compounds from the drone regions.

As we met before on more than one of those thousand topics about hulkageddon, pro or con, i do appreciate your post.

For one itīs ridiculous that "only" 42% of all ore comes from mining, you are right that T1 loot HAS to be removed (or at least clearly downcutted).

And i hope hulkageddon will get hell of a lot of macroes and afkers - even if this wonīt solve this problem for long, as unholy rage told us.

But what ccp can easily do is, to give me a 10 min timer on my strip for one circle (like ice), if they give me a more proper view to time the circle manually. This would drive those afkers mad to see them coming out with 78 units of trit after 10 min for the whole circle. And iīm sure it will cut those macroes income as well.
But that might be in another topic.

Good luck.

I believe this is a terrible, terrible design error in EVE and it should be corrected so that mining once again becomes the principle source of minerals.

Contrary to what people believe (and my semi roleplay games) I do not hate miners at all, but I do hate people that think they should play the game AFK and rake in tons of cash at no risk at all.

What I want are the following things:

-L4 income nerfed, t1 drops removed. Greatly removing mineral income from this source, making mining more profitable
-Mining mechanics altered to require actual attention and engagement from the player for optimal yield, no more AFK mining
-Low sec buffed to make it worth the risk of braving the piracy to engage in "carebear" activities (means we no longer have to go into highsec to shoot people ffs)
-A more concerted effort by CCP to get rid of macro miners, since we find dozens and dozens each day during this event.
-A good, long, hard look at ALL the bizarre side effects of the insurance system (free ganking, poopy value-for-isk on T2 ships, artificial price ceilings)

I know I put on quite a show on the forums and blogosphere, this is of course to motivate my participants and to present my character as the Devil of New Eden (hey, I deserve *something* for my efforts, even if it is notoriety), but I am certainly not stupid or crazy and I hope my event serves to highlight some of these unaddressed issues with our favorite game.

Walking in stations is nice and swell, but I'd rather have CCP fix some of the glaring problems that have been wrong with EVE for years now.

I hope this clarifies the situation a bit for the more angry amongst you :)




My post just vanished - for one of the thousand times - hell fix that ccp!

Ok - second attempt - as we met before one more than one of those 1000 posts about hulkageddon, here im very with you, helicity!

Itīs ridiculous that "only" 42% of mineral amount comes from mining, this has to be fixed. So, for gods sake, remove this worthless T1 loot from rat drop!

And what ccp can easily do is to give me a 10 min timer on my strip, if they give me a more proper instrument to measure the time for a manual shutdown. I would lough my **s off to see those afkers and macroes sitting there with 78 units of trit after a 10 min circle. Make the circle brake randomly, if you donīt "accept" within 10 sec or so. Or something like that, but thats another topic.

Good luck on hunting afkers and macroes, and good luck to every honest miner to withstand the gank!

Cheers!

Rannarl
Posted - 2010.01.11 14:24:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Rannarl on 11/01/2010 14:27:12
Originally by: Helicity Boson
The fact that even killing a thousand exhumers (and indeed we are perilously close to that) does not affect mineral prices in the slightest highlights the grievous and ludicrous fact that most mineral don't, in fact, come from miners.

The related dev blog (cba to go dig it out) indicates that about 42% comes from miners the rest coming from reprocessed mission loot and drone compounds from the drone regions.



No, if prices haven’t increased in the slightest after killing 1,000 exhumers that merely indicates killing 1,000 exhumers hasn’t made a dent on mining efforts, trying to play down the fact a smaller proportion of gamers produce nearly half the games minerals compared to a much larger proportion of gamers who mission run is hilarious :D

The Hulkagedon channel never has more than 250 people in it yet the server has nearly 45k gamers logged in, you're really over estimating your events impact on this game Smile it's kinda cute, bless ya' Laughing

Grunanca
Final Agony
B A N E
Posted - 2010.01.11 15:44:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Gaufres
I would like to see all the miners withhold selling of any minerals for a period of 2 months or more. The economy would grind to a halt without us.

Unfortunately, we miners are a independent bunch and would not band together to do this, be imagine the result.


Yeah omg! I can imagine it now! Mission runners refining their loot like always and making ships from it. I really see your point, eve wouldnt change a bit!

Domestic Abuse
Posted - 2010.01.11 22:06:00 - [19]
 

As a miner and industrialist, I can't say how pleased I am with Hulkaggeddon. Hold back minerals? Whateverthe**** for?

Dead hulks mean increased demand, and fulfilling that demand is what miner/industrialists are about.

I think it's great that HAGDN means more idiots on the forums spouting conspiracy theories and proposing labor unions. It's great entertainment.

I've read the results of more than a few people contemplating what would happen if pirates 'got rid of' all the miners. Pure gold, folks. Pure gold.

Zethro
Posted - 2010.01.12 01:24:00 - [20]
 

To all you carebears out there who hate this hulkaggedon thing why dont you guys raise the price of the ore and mats if the ore goes up enough it will cost to much to to build there ships dont you get it think about if it cost 10 mill to buy a distoryer and it only pays out 1.5 mill do you think there would be all this ganking RAISE THE PRICE GUYS IF YOU WANT THEM TO STOP KILLING YOU RAISE THE PRICE

Gordo Fartis
Caldari
13th Squadron
E C L I P S E
Posted - 2010.01.12 03:07:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Gordo Fartis on 12/01/2010 03:15:57
Originally by: S'totan
The vast majority of minerals in the game come from drone regions and lvl 4 mission loot. Sorry to tell ya.


That might be true on overall numbers but no one moves trit, pye, mexa, iso or nocx from low sec or 0.0 and the minerals from lots although large in quantity are too dispersed... you could see the eve landscape as a beach where the sand are is the minerals comming from reprocesing and the rocks in between are the concentrations from miners and mission hubs... As an industrialist I hardly ever waste time moving trit and other low end minerals unless I am short in my industrial system..

All this said Hulkaggedon will have an effect on the mineral availability in the market at some point and for a short while as all other mineral sinks carry on working, which will benefit the pure miners... Industrialists will not be afected as we either have large stock piles or buy the minerals required and pass the cost to the customers if the item is worth producing.

My personal opinion is that I dont care if people mien afk, is not a big deal and in a way anyone who has 2/3 accounts will have the mining char on window and check it from time to time if they have one...

I am not certainly interested in having less minerals available and/or having to spend a lot of time collecting little bits here and there considering that I use roughly 2.3 billion units of trit a day

I do agree with felicity is on the need to buff low sec so that it is easier to produce there

Ammandon
Posted - 2010.01.12 11:18:00 - [22]
 

what about minerals in hauler spawns in 0.0 ? isnt that quite a big income of minerals or has that been taken out of the game now ?

Lady Ayeipsia
Posted - 2010.01.12 14:47:00 - [23]
 

The problem with suggesting all miners ban together and not sell minerals for 2 months is... well... plain human greed. Assuming you do manage to start raising prices on the market by a 2 month ban, what do you think would happen?

Every cash strapped newbie and even some of the vets in need of funds will switch to mining. They will happily fill the void left by the more serious miners simply because they can make ISK. And you have no real union where you can enforce a mining ban or even just a selling ban on minerals.

Winterjack
Posted - 2010.01.12 15:44:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia
Every cash strapped newbie and even some of the vets in need of funds will switch to mining.


Being a miner is a bit more than grabbing an osprey and fitting a couple mining lasers... a proficient miner and refiner will get much much more yield than a "newbie in need of funds".
If the dedicated miners decided to withdraw their stuff from market, the prices would go up. Definitely.

Quote:
And you have no real union where you can enforce a mining ban or even just a selling ban on minerals.


Well, you could do what the gankers do and take out whomever decides to go in the belts ;) And if you have enough funds you can just buy most of the minerals on market (and go hunt for the non-aligned miner as well).

Mind you, I agree with you - it's veeeery unlikely. It's theoretically possible, tho.

Gordo Fartis
Caldari
13th Squadron
E C L I P S E
Posted - 2010.01.12 16:15:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Ammandon
what about minerals in hauler spawns in 0.0 ? isnt that quite a big income of minerals or has that been taken out of the game now ?


Haulers are part of the mineral faucet in Eve but again only the high value minerals will be moved to the point that many times the minerals are not picked up from the dead haulers unless there is a dedicated porducer in system

Jim Ned
Posted - 2010.01.12 19:32:00 - [26]
 

Here are some facts. Hulks are 250 MISK and trit has gone from 2.2 to almost 3.0 isk in the past two weeks.

True miners are going to look for a way to make profit here. Besides, if you really want to mess with the gankers, start raising the price of gank ships and ammo. As for me, I'm going to start building Hulks.


 

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