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blankseplocked Cheap nightmare + support for missions
 
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Bufo T
Posted - 2010.01.08 11:02:00 - [1]
 

I'm currently training (just got t2 beams left to do) for a nightmare, and as I have an alt currently training (and will be ready a the same time) for a scimitar thought they could be used together in missions, to both increase tank and gank, as well as possibly reducing the cost.

I know 2 combat ships would be more effective but due to my computer I don't think I will easily be able to manage both effectively, and would prefer to concentrate on 1 anyway. Perhaps in the future I could train my alt for a dominix to add better drones but the alt is training for a scimitar anyway.

The two fits:
[Nightmare, gank]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II will probably be gradually changed to faction
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II (to increase buffer if things go a bit wrong)

Tracking Computer II probably start with optimal range scripts, then change to tracking
Tracking Computer II
Ballistic Deflection Field II can both be swapped to cn invuls to make it a bit simpler (don't have to
Heat Dissipation Field II change for different rats), normal invuls would probably be ok as well
100MN Afterburner II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Auto Targeting System II
Auto Targeting System II

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II the t2 rigs aren't that expensive and help quite a lot
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

[Scimitar, Scimitar: nightmare lvl4 support]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Damage Control II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Link II
Tracking Link II
Tracking Link II

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Medium 'Regard' I Power Projector

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


Hammerhead II x4
Hobgoblin II x1

This fit should have enough buffer to warp out if it gets aggro (27k ehp and small sig radius), and can perm-run everything but the cap transfer with logistics 4. The 2 tracking computer and 3 tracking links mean that the optimal range can be up to almost 60k with imp. mf, or tracking almost as good as a 150mm railgun (without skills etc.). Tank with the 3 reps is generally around 850, and the energy transfer can be used for a bit of help during longer missions (nightmare has cap for over 8 mins without ab).

Wondering what people's thoughts are on this, it should prevent suicide ganking due to lack of expensive modules (and quite high ehp with damage control) and is considerably more effective than a solo nightmare, with 9 medium and 1 light drone as well as very high tracking/range on the turrets.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.01.08 11:05:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 08/01/2010 11:05:16
Domi with shield transporters and sentry drones assigned to the nightmare, or just let domi grab agro.

Mad Assassin
Posted - 2010.01.08 11:15:00 - [3]
 

Confirming flying a Nightmare in missions does not require support Wink

steejans nix
Amarr
Black Core Federation
Posted - 2010.01.08 11:24:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Mad Assassin
Confirming flying a Nightmare in missions does not require support Wink


This, best thing to have the alt in is something that can loot and salvage, although a well skilled 'mare will want two people salvaging to keep up.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.01.08 11:50:00 - [5]
 

Run a std mission Nightmare and pair with a salvage/RR BC with shield bots if your setup can't cope with 2 combat RRs.
Another easier alterative is to let your alt mine ice/roid while you mission.

The Scimitar is overkill imo, serves little purpose other than being a shield battery for the Nightmare. As for the Nightmare, one would think you should build it for a full gank or otherwise, what is the point of the Scimitar?

Another thing you'd need to be careful of, is the Nightmare's local tank in situations where you might not be able to bring the Scimitar into play in time. I would recommend more hardening and equipping a shield booster over the AB.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2010.01.08 12:48:00 - [6]
 

Nightmare works perfectly even t2 fitted, but you will want faction heatsinks as soon you will accumulate small wealth. Support really isnt necessary, you will get more ish/k/h running 2 separate missions.

If you want really want to use both ships in one mission go for afk domi /agro, assist sentries and dont care/, its the most comfortable way. Keep in mind that using 2 gank bses needs alot of attention to get best of them.

Or just keep your alt in salvacane /or get him salvaging t3/.



Bufo T
Posted - 2010.01.08 13:17:00 - [7]
 

I'll probably get the alt into a domi in the future, just I'm training a scimitar for other reasons and thought I might as well use it. To the question about buffer, with the damage control the nightmare has 80-90k ehp (if I remember correctly) which should be more than comfortable for any mission.

I'll probably try this way to start with (to have a bit of a safety net for an expensive ship) and perhaps change to a salvaging support ship. Perhaps I could drop the energy transfer and 1 or 2 of the shield transporters and use the scimitar for salvaging, but will see how it goes first. Also, can anyone see any problems or improvements to the fits currently posted? With the nightmare I'm going to get the 5% implants (for turret damage etc.) before faction fitting, as I think it has just as great an effect and isn't as obvious for suicide ganking (I'll also be flying an amarr bs in pvp/w-holes so they will be good for that as well).

Madla Mafia
Posted - 2010.01.08 14:50:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Mad Assassin
Confirming flying a Nightmare in missions does not require support Wink


+1

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2010.01.08 15:14:00 - [9]
 

I see lots of Tachyon NMs, but if range is under 58km Mega Pulse seems more vialbe to me:

[Nightmare, Mega Pulse]
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
Domination Tracking Enhancer
Domination Tracking Enhancer

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


granteed 20 less dps, but lots more tracking. More cap friendly as well.

For extreme ranges Tachs wins tho.

Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
Posted - 2010.01.09 05:15:00 - [10]
 

Scorch does almost exclusively EM damage, which is a PITA on rats that are EM resistant. Tachs > Pulse on the nightmare IMO.

(I use Pulse on my abaddon, but only because of fitting problems with tachs not fitting with dual LAR)

Forranz
Malice.
Tentative Nature
Posted - 2010.01.09 05:41:00 - [11]
 

Here's my setup.. Yeah its a PvE buffer tank, Nightmare doesn't need a huge tank so I just buffer it with a faction rep. I would suggest Pithi A-Type Small.

[Nightmare, Buffer tank]
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II

Dark Blood Heavy Nosferatu
Dark Blood Heavy Nosferatu
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Hammerhead II x5

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.01.09 05:50:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Bufo T
I'll probably get the alt into a domi in the future, just I'm training a scimitar for other reasons and thought I might as well use it. To the question about buffer, with the damage control the nightmare has 80-90k ehp (if I remember correctly) which should be more than comfortable for any mission.


Your original config uses 2 slot for hardening and 1 shield rig. Frankly, this is inadequate against most NPC, especially Blood/Sansha, not because you can still run mission and get away with it - but because of two things :

a) You sacrificed your tank without anything to show for the ship's dps.
b) Your support Scimitar will need to work doubly hard to maintain your Nightmare's tank.

As a rule of thumb, when you're running buffer and relying heavily on logistics, the harder your resists, the better. Logistics pilots will like you more. Of course this doesn't mean allocating 5-7 slots for resists, use common sense.

My suggestion, adopt a std 4 slot shield resist. Change your rigs to 2xCCC and 1 Elut II. Keep the DCII.
Drop to 3 slot shield resist only if the advantages in having it so is overwhelming.

Bufo T
Posted - 2010.01.09 09:27:00 - [13]
 

The nightmare already has more than enough tank with the scimitar, and it would just be a waste using more slots for it. Due to the stacking penalties with damage mods it barely makes any difference fitting a 5th or a damage rig, and so the midslot modules speed up missioning in other way:

Tracking computers are extremely useful with tachyons and do increased effective dps as you are able to use mf all the time and get better average hit quality on smaller ships (due to better tracking)

An afterburner means it isn't quite so slow and you don't spend ages getting to an acceleration gate/pick up something

And finally the 2 sensor boosters with scan res scripts mean that you killing speed is not limited by your lock time, if you can 1-shot frigates with just 1 gun that means that with a fairly low scan res it could become a bottleneck.

Damage isn't just about eft dps.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2010.01.09 10:06:00 - [14]
 

Unless logistiks is really an issue (ie 0.0 or low sec without factory nearby) then for cheap but effective nightmare fit I would look towards cap injector fueled setups. If you dualaccount it's ofc possible to sort of pull off additional combinations - for example Raven + Nightmare with some logistiks ability to support each other when needed. Dominix would work also pretty well in that regard ofc, as you can put your drones on 'assist' and don't need to micromanage them unless the new wave spawns and they draw agro. Until CCP get's around implementing sleeper like AI in missions and all drone pilots are screwed.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.01.09 10:47:00 - [15]
 

No, you've got a few alternative options for rigs. The best one for this scenario would probably be the Metastasis rig to semi-replace a TE that usually comes on a std mission Nightmare. Also please note, I don't have a bone to pick with 2 TCs. Infact, with 2 scripted TCs and a Metastasis rig you've got a very nice flexibility to weather heavy TD from Blood/Sansha NPCs.

AB is situational and it's not a fit that needs to stay on all the time. If you're even too lazy to spend a few secs to bring up the saved fitting screen, then I rest my case Smile

My biggest bone of contention here are those 2 Sebo. Why exactly do you need to spend your gun cycle time to lock & kill frigates, especially when you're running Tachyons and you already have a complement of light drones?

If we look at it from a net gain perspective, you gain -10secs to lock, waste abt 6.7secs for a Tachyon cycle which result in a -3.3 sec net gain. On the otherhand, if I don't shoot frigates, I gain -6.7sec to my mission time because it goes towards busting a BS or one-shotting a BC. So, obviously you've wasted 2 slots for the Sebo for no real tangible gain.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2010.01.09 11:36:00 - [16]
 

Alternative to sensor boosters is ability to lock 12 targets. So you can dump some 5-6 locking slots on frigs and use rest to keep yourself busy for those 30 sec they lock. This way tho usually last few frigates manage to get close enough to need drones to kill them.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2010.01.09 11:43:00 - [17]
 

You guys have some strange fits.

Quote:
[Nightmare, Lvl 4 T2 Beams Booster]
Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier

Imperial Navy Mega Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I
Imperial Navy Mega Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Mega Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I
Imperial Navy Mega Beam Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

Can be replaced by T2 wherever needed. Also, T2 rigs aren't necessary. I had them in for testing purposes. 44+31 Km optimal and falloff and around 1100 DPS, all depending on skills. You really shouldn't need anything more than this. If you feel less than confident about the tank, add a HG Crystal set, but it should really not be necessary since you megamelt anything within 50 Km.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.01.09 11:55:00 - [18]
 

He's got ze auto-targetters for those already Very Happy ... 11 targets. Though practically, 9 targets is fairly adequate for the extra frigate slots. Fitting a single tractor a much more useful gain to reel in mission containers.


 

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