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blankseplocked When did HACs get so expensive?
 
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Jenaveve Rosseau
Posted - 2010.01.07 23:55:00 - [1]
 

I took a break from the game for awhile and when I came back I went to buy an Ishtar and found it was 140m. I used to get them for 80m-90m. What happened?

masternerdguy
Gallente
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2010.01.07 23:57:00 - [2]
 

i always remember hacs being 100-140m

Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.01.07 23:59:00 - [3]
 

The components required to build T2 ships was modified heavily in Dominion.

Jenaveve Rosseau
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:03:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Jenaveve Rosseau on 08/01/2010 00:03:40
I was getting Ishtars prenano nerf for between 80m and 90m.

Originally by: Becq Starforged
The components required to build T2 ships was modified heavily in Dominion.




I wonder what the reasoning for this was. I could barely afford them then.

Cors
It's A Trap
It's A Trap Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:04:00 - [5]
 

You must be new. I remember buying fully fit vaga's for about 320 mil each.

Prices fluctuate any time there are a large number of high end moons changing hands, as the new owners may take up to a month to get mining up to speed, and their logistics network setup to refine and deliver the moon mins to highsec.

Plus there are quite a few battles going on in 0.0 atm, which causes prices to spike when lots of ships are being destroyed.

Valtis Thermalion
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:06:00 - [6]
 


masternerdguy
Gallente
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:13:00 - [7]
 

even b4 dominion cerbs were 120m

Jenaveve Rosseau
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:16:00 - [8]
 

I'm a late 2007 player. I'm not old but I don't think I'm new either.

The polycarbs cost more than my Ishtars did back when they didn't have stacking penalties.


Originally by: Cors
You must be new. I remember buying fully fit vaga's for about 320 mil each.

Prices fluctuate any time there are a large number of high end moons changing hands, as the new owners may take up to a month to get mining up to speed, and their logistics network setup to refine and deliver the moon mins to highsec.

Plus there are quite a few battles going on in 0.0 atm, which causes prices to spike when lots of ships are being destroyed.


Jenaveve Rosseau
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:24:00 - [9]
 

Wow so basically for years HACs and other T2 stuff has been cheaper than it's supposed to be because of a bug that took the better part of the life of the game to find? Did I read that report correctly?

Well at least the 134 players doing it were banned.

Originally by: Valtis Thermalion
Moongate happened

Chalrayne Illyndar
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:40:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jenaveve Rosseau
Wow so basically for years HACs and other T2 stuff has been cheaper than it's supposed to be because of a bug that took the better part of the life of the game to find? Did I read that report correctly?

Well at least the 134 players doing it were banned.

Originally by: Valtis Thermalion
Moongate happened



Or rather, Dominion happened.

Jenaveve Rosseau
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:42:00 - [11]
 


What changed to make them so much more expensive and what was CCPs reasoning?

I have been searching but haven't found anything on the forums. Not really sure what search terms to use. hehe


Originally by: Chalrayne Illyndar
Originally by: Jenaveve Rosseau
Wow so basically for years HACs and other T2 stuff has been cheaper than it's supposed to be because of a bug that took the better part of the life of the game to find? Did I read that report correctly?

Well at least the 134 players doing it were banned.

Originally by: Valtis Thermalion
Moongate happened



Or rather, Dominion happened.

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:45:00 - [12]
 


Sindek Yarivov
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:51:00 - [13]
 

Dominion happened. The "high end" r64's were nerfed and the mid grade r32's got a buff. By that, the materials used to make T2 components had their ingredients changed making r32's more valuable.

Whats happening now is the 0.0 moon miners are either switching from r64 to 32 mining or more likely adding new r32 mining pos's and getting those online. It will take some time for that production to hit empire then filter down to component manufacturing.

This will ease as the amount of r32 goo hits the market

Night Epoch
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.01.08 21:51:00 - [14]
 

Meh, just bought a Cerb for 100M in Amarr yesterday. They don't seem to be all that overinflated currently ... maybe a bit.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2010.01.08 21:58:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: masternerdguy
i always remember hacs being 100-140m
i remember them being 300+ mill(vagas and cerbs at least)

Kuar Z'thain
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.08 22:07:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: masternerdguy
i always remember hacs being 100-140m
i remember them being 300+ mill(vagas and cerbs at least)

And 450m Command Ships.
And 20m Cap Recharger IIs.
And 30m 425mm Rail IIs.
etc..
etc..

Damn youngens don't know how good they have it!
*Shakes broom and yells at kids on lawn*

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.01.08 22:18:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 08/01/2010 22:24:02
I've been away for a year and a half, and just came back as well. And yes prices on tech 2 ships have gone up dramatically. It's clearly the highest they've been since invention came along.

It's not because of Dominion or because of wars happening right now, because if you look at price history, the prices have gone up steadily through all of last year. If anything, the changes in Dominion should bring the prices down eventually (even with Technetium spiking).


Edit: I used to buy a Lachesis for 40 something mil. Now they're selling at 70. I used to buy Claws for 3-5 mil. Now they're selling right below 17 mil.

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2010.01.09 01:14:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: masternerdguy
i always remember hacs being 100-140m
i remember them being 300+ mill(vagas and cerbs at least)

And 450m Command Ships.
And 20m Cap Recharger IIs.
And 30m 425mm Rail IIs.
etc..
etc..

Damn youngens don't know how good they have it!
*Shakes broom and yells at kids on lawn*


300m Damage Control IIs Crying or Very sad

Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.01.09 04:59:00 - [19]
 

I started to monitor prices on T2 cruisers almost exactly a year ago.

When I started, Deimos' were 70M, they are now 120M.
The price went up very slowly, then the "Moongate" effects (as someone mentioned) started to kick in, prices continued to rise until 100M and Dominion changed the requirements.

Basically, less thrusters and reactors are needed (those require lots of expensive moon goo), but instead thousands of microprocessors and other cheaper components are needed, making the build time (for the components) significantly longer AND the price of said components went up due to the insanely higher demand. Thus, T2 ships cost more Very Happy

Adeline Grey
Posted - 2010.01.09 05:04:00 - [20]
 

When CCP became ******ed (oh yeah, I know they always have been, has to do with being an Icelandic company I think, just look at their economy) and made the tech2 material bottleneck a material mostly mined and owned by the NC. Not to mention the other tech2 manufacturuing changes.

Good thing my Hurricane can pwn Vagabonds anyway.

Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
Posted - 2010.01.09 05:18:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Jenaveve Rosseau

What changed to make them so much more expensive and what was CCPs reasoning?

I have been searching but haven't found anything on the forums. Not really sure what search terms to use. hehe


Originally by: Chalrayne Illyndar
Originally by: Jenaveve Rosseau
Wow so basically for years HACs and other T2 stuff has been cheaper than it's supposed to be because of a bug that took the better part of the life of the game to find? Did I read that report correctly?

Well at least the 134 players doing it were banned.

Originally by: Valtis Thermalion
Moongate happened



Or rather, Dominion happened.




They changed the T2 material requirements to build T2 ships. In the past it may have taken 50 Crystalline Carbonide Armor Plates to build an Ishtar, now it takes 6000 (or whatever the exact number is). This makes moon mining for Crystalline Carbide much more profitable than it had been in the past. Additionally, the components that took a good amount of Ferrogel before now take less or less amounts of the components to build.

Apparently, this was to level out the playing field for moons since the only ones really worth fighting over were those that gave the highest selling materials for T2.

The market may settle down to a point where you could get an Ishtar for 80million if moon mining gets sorted out by the 0.0 alliances and minerals start to flow more readily. However, it does seem like this is somewhat happening. Material cost for an Ishtar (including typical invention costs and using Jita prices) are around 130mil to build. If you find them at that price, then that's probably the "new" price.


Edible Bandaid
Gallente
Crimson Nation
Posted - 2010.01.09 06:03:00 - [22]
 

So many people still have no idea lol.

People were cheating and found a way to produce more t2 production materials. When these were found out, supply bottlenecked.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.01.09 06:26:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Valtis Thermalion
Moongate happened

...and prices spiked a little bit...
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
I'm presuming it was this

...and prices finally exploded due to two factors : "old bottleneck" components DID NOT suddenly drop in price, however "new bottleneck" components spiked probably above long-term price level due to a dire shortage or proper reacted materials, on top of an overall increase in total manufacture slot man-hours needed per ship (in spite of the moderate build time adjustments for some of the "new bottleneck" components).

Dominion market analysis.
Technetium, Neodymium and Platinum are still cheap compared to where they'll end up, their reactions (mostly the advanced ones) make a truckload of ISK per tower (a full Nanotransistors chain could end up somewhere around 10 BIL ISK per month profit with purchase of those three materials from Jita, whereas the same chain would at best barely make any profit at all pre-Dominion) - mineral prices need to stabilize a bit higher and finished T2 components need to go down a notch due to steady supply - this can take a while.
Dysprosium and Promethium prices haven't really gone down to expected long-term levels yet either, and their reactions STILL barely make some profit at current prices (since the reactor profit expectations have gone up in Dominion), even their T2 components yield some manufacturing profit at times - all those need to come down pretty hard in price, and it will eventually happen.


Long story short :
* the overall production ratios (and most important, the demand for advanced reactions) has drastically shifted, and until enough people enter the market as reactors/manufacturers, prices won't be coming down
* prices may never come back down quite to pre-Dominion levels (at least not long-term) due to increased "man-hours" needed per finished T2 product (both reactor time and manufacture slot time), even if moon mineral "basket price" drifts back to pre-Dominion levels.


 

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