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blankseplocked [Proposal] Local change
 
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Sajeera
Posted - 2009.12.18 19:25:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Sajeera on 18/12/2009 19:46:44
My proposition is simple and probably will be heavily flamed.

At the moment the local is not simply a channel used for chat by pilots who are in the same system, instead it is the best tool for gathering intel. You can check for bad guys, good guys, the number of all pilots, you can even spot somebody coming before he load the system.

I want to propose a change to the local channel for 0.0 and low sec so its not anymore the greatest ever tool for intel. The idea is to be changed to a delayed mode or a mode similar to the way it works in w-space, so you can see somebody only if he talks OR you can only see the number of the pilots but not their details unless they speak.

The change will introduce a brand new warfare tactics, will bring back the skill intensive and highly unused black ops and will make the game more complex and interesting.

I already feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of ratters and ninja miners suddenly cried out in terror and jumped on the flame buttons.

Ask yourselves what will make the game better, not what will hurt or help your game style and give me your support if feel so.

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.18 20:00:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: TeaDaze on 18/12/2009 20:12:02
Currently local is a one stop intel shop. The second anyone enters system you know their name, corp and alliance without having to do anything.

The halfway option of local retaining just the count (possibly delayed) would be a good compromise should full w-space behaviour be seen as too much.

Edit: I suggest this change for 0.0 only and not empire (lowsec could also have it later on depending on how it works out in 0.0).

Omega Flames
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2009.12.18 20:14:00 - [3]
 

/flame
just go live in wh's where that is already the case

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.12.18 20:48:00 - [4]
 

I very much liked the delayed Local in w-space. Seeing a pilot total would be nice to allow spikes to be observed but I think you should have to actually SCOUT around a system to gather intel about who's there rather than just clicking on Show Info from the comfort of a safe.

Therefore, supported.

Miss Granger
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.18 20:51:00 - [5]
 

"Recon - two in local, nothing on grid, Drake on scan"

has a whole different meaning to it if you can't find out which corp/alliance the Drake belongs to, and if he can only determine your presence by use of D-scan or watching the local count like a hawk.

+1

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2009.12.18 20:57:00 - [6]
 

This has been discussed ad nauseam, and while I fully support it, I believe the devs have stated they didn't want to change local until they have a good alternative source for intel. This is sort-of one of those topics that has been discussed, most people agree on, but no one has come up with a decent alternative yet. The current probing system is... drastically better than the old one, but IMO still a bit more "active" (proactive?) than ideal.

Micky Nozawa
Posted - 2009.12.18 21:05:00 - [7]
 

Supported

Wish we can have the current "magic" local channel here on Earth though, we could instantly check for those pesky little green dudes with flying saucers, laugh on their corp history or photos, and smacktalk them till they undock.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.12.18 21:41:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: TimMc on 18/12/2009 21:41:28
Yes plz. However all anoms need to be as profitable as level 4 missions, or need to be completable in a ship capable of fighting back in PvP.

Gripen
Posted - 2009.12.18 21:56:00 - [9]
 

I don't think that complete removal of local without any alternatives is a good idea but supporting this thread because local change is an old overdue.

Kaiman
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2009.12.18 22:14:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Kaiman on 18/12/2009 22:14:31
I fully support a change to local.
Personally I'd like the delayed mode or just showing the number.
However I seem to remember the same as Seth, that the devs didn't want to change it till they have an appropriate intel tool to replace it.

Anyways +1

Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.18 22:18:00 - [11]
 

+2 to 0.0 local showing total number of pilots but not each specific pilot.

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.18 22:21:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Gripen
I don't think that complete removal of local without any alternatives is a good idea but supporting this thread because local change is an old overdue.

CCP indicated at fanfest they would like some replacement tools so this is a good place to suggest any.

E.G. You could have a system upgrade to enable local in sov space, possibly with a delay that can be further reduced with more levels.

wavre
Posted - 2009.12.18 22:32:00 - [13]
 

Dont be a fool. All your will ever do is reinstate local in a slicker form that resembles a scanning function. Then comes a point when people are asking to chat in this new scan function and the cycle comes full circle back to what we have now.

Yahrr
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.12.19 06:49:00 - [14]
 

Supported!!!

For the carebears that are ready to spam this thread with tears: if you don't know if there is a pirate in system, then the pirate probably doesn't know that you are in system. It works both ways and is nerf and a buff to the attacker and the defender, depending on how you use it.
If I see a Raven on scan and I see a 5.0 Sec in local chat, then it's party time. If I see a Raven in scan and can't find out who he is until I land on the same grid, then I will probably leave it alone to avoid a horrible death as this Raven can be another pirate as well. Think about it.

Supported, supported, supported!

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.12.19 11:12:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 19/12/2009 11:12:23
Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Gripen
I don't think that complete removal of local without any alternatives is a good idea but supporting this thread because local change is an old overdue.

CCP indicated at fanfest they would like some replacement tools so this is a good place to suggest any.

E.G. You could have a system upgrade to enable local in sov space, possibly with a delay that can be further reduced with more levels.


D-scan , probes , and for example local tool that only show total amout of pilots in system would be sufficient.

Supported !!

Azual Skoll
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.19 15:16:00 - [16]
 

Supported!

Showing count just not the characters etc sounds like a good solution personally, but any change being looked at would be welcome.

I don't actually believe the current intel tools would be all that insufficient without local - since it would affect both sides (e.g. to take the piracy example, it's just as difficult for the pirate to find his target as it is for the target to find the pirate). However, this could be an opportunity to add benefit to developed sov systems by enabling new intel functions there, since that's probably the main area where removal of local will be felt negatively.

Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.19 16:29:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Yahrr
Supported!!!

Supported, supported, supported!


Yet you forgot to check the "Support this topic:" check box when you posted Razz

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.12.19 18:09:00 - [18]
 

Strongly supported, this change years overdue.

Sakco
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2009.12.19 18:48:00 - [19]
 

This proposal has my full support.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.12.19 19:20:00 - [20]
 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I will only support removal of local when a real intel system is created to replace it. Naked removal is a bad idea.

Clone 231B
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.12.19 19:34:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Clone 231B on 19/12/2009 19:35:04
Not supported.

Cloaks already act as an intel diffusing tool. You know there is a red there, but you have no clue if he is even at his keyboard, or what type of ship.

Amend your proposal to seriously nerf the invulnerability cloaks give, and I will sign up.

EDIT: Combat probes were created for gathering intel, but they fail in the face of cloaks.

Ash Naseen
Posted - 2009.12.19 20:13:00 - [22]
 

Supported

If somebody is cloaked somewhere in space, there is a REASON for you to not be able to see his dossier, street address and his ten generation family tree chart.

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.19 21:57:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Clone 231B
Cloaks already act as an intel diffusing tool. You know there is a red there, but you have no clue if he is even at his keyboard, or what type of ship.

That isn't the point. You know who is in local, which corp/alliance and you can add them to your address book to ensure when they leave local that they've not simply logged off. This is far too much power for what is supposed to be a communications tool.

If I enter a system in a covert ops ship, I don't think anyone other than people within visible range of the gate should know I'm there.

Originally by: Clone 231B
Amend your proposal to seriously nerf the invulnerability cloaks give, and I will sign up.

EDIT: Combat probes were created for gathering intel, but they fail in the face of cloaks.

Covert ops ships should be covert. That is what the covert in the description means Wink If you think that non-covert ops cloaks need to be nerfed then make a proposal.

Anewb N'eve
Posted - 2009.12.19 23:42:00 - [24]
 

Supported

[Proposal] How to get rid of Local

(probably should have just put comments here instead of starting a new thread)

FU22
The 8th Order
Posted - 2009.12.19 23:50:00 - [25]
 

i have a feeling changing local will make eve more about blobs as you will be less keen to engage someone when you can't see how many friends he has in local and in local of nearby systems...sure you can see them on scan but idk.

Unless a decent mechanic is designed to replace local im not supporting the out right removal of local...

Caldak
Posted - 2009.12.19 23:55:00 - [26]
 

If it hasn't been looked at yet and discussed I would be surprised.

0.5 and up as is. Concorrod is running the Show.
0.4 Ė 0.1 space delayed. Concorrod donít like sending Techs down there, so the equipment is down graded.
0.0 no Local like WH space. Basic services to the people. ( There isnít even Gate Guns )

To people that look at it, itís a no brainer. To those with a different reason, really be honest and say why it should stay. I didnít hear people in WH cry about the lack of there Intel tool.

There is still gate sound activation. (Cloaked Alt with sound turned up)
There is an onboard scanner.
There is still the use of your Alliance/Corp Intel channel
There is still the use of a good old scout.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.12.20 00:23:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 20/12/2009 00:23:36
Originally by: FU22
i have a feeling changing local will make eve more about blobs as you will be less keen to engage someone when you can't see how many friends he has in local and in local of nearby systems...sure you can see them on scan but idk.

Unless a decent mechanic is designed to replace local im not supporting the out right removal of local...


I belive your wrong , no local in wormhole space is the best thing CCP has ever created.
It makes everything possible.Gaming expirience is just on a diffrent level. And i have yet to see a blob warfare in there !

Clone 231B
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.12.20 04:48:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Clone 231B
Cloaks already act as an intel diffusing tool. You know there is a red there, but you have no clue if he is even at his keyboard, or what type of ship.

That isn't the point. You know who is in local, which corp/alliance and you can add them to your address book to ensure when they leave local that they've not simply logged off. This is far too much power for what is supposed to be a communications tool.

If I enter a system in a covert ops ship, I don't think anyone other than people within visible range of the gate should know I'm there.

Originally by: Clone 231B
Amend your proposal to seriously nerf the invulnerability cloaks give, and I will sign up.

EDIT: Combat probes were created for gathering intel, but they fail in the face of cloaks.

Covert ops ships should be covert. That is what the covert in the description means Wink If you think that non-covert ops cloaks need to be nerfed then make a proposal.


It is the point, the local intel tool is 100% fair. Everyone gets the same amount of information, there is no bias there.

The point about the cloaks is that they make people unprobable now as it is. Meaning that people have to rely on intel to even know of their existence, there is no other tool to use to find out that they are there.

Everything, everything in this game is designed to have a counter. Without local, what counter is there to cloaks, both covert and normal?

I am not trying to make a proposal here, I am saying that your change is an unbalancing change and it doesn't look at the whole picture.

Alyosius Knight
Amarr
OBSIDIAN FLEET
Tarukai Imperium
Posted - 2009.12.20 09:15:00 - [29]
 

Having spent some time in W space I don't believe that the removal of local + cloaks produce an unbalanced game. Infact i actually prefer the situation in W space.

In W space you have to actually have to work for your protection etc. I would suggest that the D scanner and the probing system does provide an adequate intel tool.

you actually have to work for intel - good!
if you need intel and don't want to get it yourself then pay someone to get it

W space isn't unbalanced - introducing the same in 0.0 won't make the game unbalanced.

definetly supported

Aura Mega
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.12.20 09:15:00 - [30]
 

/Not Supported - CCP will break it if they try to "Fix" it.


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