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blankseplocked The Problem with 0.0
 
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Jas Dor
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.10 23:12:00 - [1]
 

The problem with 0.0 is community. Eve is a social game. Outside of alts very few active characters spend long outside of a player corp. Many players become attached to their corps, making it part of their EvE identity. When a corp folds some people move on, and others leave the game. Once a player is in a corp, they are more likely to go inactive than voluntarily leave the corp.

This becomes the barrier to move to 0.0 or low sec. Players want to experience other parts of the game but don't want to leave their corp friends to do so. Unfortunately, corp entrance requirements for 0.0 alliances are quite high (100 active members 20% in capital ships being common). Empire based corps inquiring about 0.0 membership are often either rejected outright or offered rental agreements. Nobody like to be told that their community sucks which is exactly what this does. Worse, while a group might be able to get its act together and get twenty capital ships, the skills to fly take half a year or more to train and have no bearing on high sec life.

The response to this in may corps it to become gun shy. Corps are told that they can't compete in a PvP world so don't try. In reality of course 0.0 PvP is high alpha blob warfare. Small scale PvP in empire require mastery of a number of intricate game rules. 0.0 if you can get enough people all following orders and shooting them same thing you're doing pretty well for yourself. (Oh BTW empire dwellers, people in 0.0 are more likely to hold only having three PvP losses against you than the fact that you lost *gasp* three ships in the last six months).

If CCP wants to get more people out to 0.0 they need to make it more accessible on a corp, not an individual, level. Off hand my suggestions would be more regions with heavy NPC station presence, like syndicate and some mechanism to reward empire dwellers for training capship skills.

Qarth
Posted - 2009.12.11 00:06:00 - [2]
 

Seems to me you know very little about 0.0 I've never run into those type of problems.

Maybe you need to rethink what alliance and corps you want to fly with, becuase small gang PvP (10 to 20 ships) is about all I ever see if not smaller.

Serpent Kamri
Posted - 2009.12.11 00:21:00 - [3]
 

But at least he is starting to understand that 0.0 is a sandbox where you need other people to survive, you got to give him credit for that Wink

Miraqu
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.11 01:18:00 - [4]
 

Most alliances don't recruit at all. The few who do, have rather crazy requirements.

Even small corps have a chance, if that alliance is relocating, newly founded or changing. Then this alliance will often try to move into nullsec, with you, since you already in this alliance.

If that succeeds then you are part of a 0.0 alliance. But if you want to join an established alliance, you'll have to fulfil the requirements.

The best way for small player corps is to put an alt into their old corp as ceo and merge into an larger/established corp. That way you can keep your friends and you have some friends in your new corp.

Boppi
Blue Republic
Posted - 2009.12.11 01:22:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Boppi on 11/12/2009 01:22:40
Originally by: Miraqu
Most alliances don't recruit at all. The few who do, have rather crazy requirements.



Wat? Seriously, what the **** m8?

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2009.12.11 01:34:00 - [6]
 

There is no problem with living in 0.0 and community that I have found. Probably the opposite actually.

0.0 Alliances dont want to end up with a load of spies or players who are coming from empire, where evrything is different, and so will obviously have high entry reqs.

It's true that in 0.0 that blobs tend to splat ships but a lot of 0.0 is small engagements also. When I lived in 0.0 there was a lot of small scale, even 1v1 engagements along with the usual blob-age.

To get people into 0.0, ccp need to give people a good enough reason to go. Which I think they already have imho.

Gun Gal
Posted - 2009.12.11 03:58:00 - [7]
 

Great, just what we need, yet another thread
from someone who knows nothing of how 0.0
works, with yet another pacifistic way to
"fix" nullsec

Toria Nynys
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.11 04:53:00 - [8]
 

There's an easier way to fix 0.0.

And that is: CONCORD blows up any armed ship in highsec piloted by anyone with > 5M SP or so. That kind of pilot is just too dangerous to let near populated worlds, see. *POOF* all 0.0 problems solved.

Thank you, thank you. No applause necessary, just throw money.

Rpeg
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2009.12.11 05:01:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Rpeg on 11/12/2009 05:02:27
Really, the problem with 0.0 is not a problem at all, but certainly a deterrent. Getting shot down every time you're flying in 0.0 is a motivating factor for staying out of there. I think 0.0 is fine and I'm rarely able to hang out there for very long.

I think the player community in 0.0 however is lame. I mean, why pop a random reaper in space? I'm getting to the point where i'm just bored. I'm not allowed in 0.0 as the player community keeps telling me and the missions in empire are lame.

Empire space however is a problem. We need less stability there.

All players in both areas need to get out of their comfort zone. It feels like a middle school dance where the boys and girls are standing on the opposite sides of the room. We're just standing there complaining about how no one is dancing.




Le Sabre
Gallente
The Dead Canary Mining Corporation
Legion of Honor
Posted - 2009.12.11 05:06:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Toria Nynys
There's an easier way to fix 0.0.

And that is: CONCORD blows up any armed ship in highsec piloted by anyone with > 5M SP or so. That kind of pilot is just too dangerous to let near populated worlds, see. *POOF* all 0.0 problems solved.

Thank you, thank you. No applause necessary, just throw money.


Fatal flaw in your plan : Has nothing to do with 0.0, and that would lose CCP an awful lot of subs. Laughing

Jas Dor
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.11 05:28:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Qarth
Seems to me you know very little about 0.0 I've never run into those type of problems.

Maybe you need to rethink what alliance and corps you want to fly with, becuase small gang PvP (10 to 20 ships) is about all I ever see if not smaller.


I'm sorry but what the... Are you playing in some off timezone or something. I've run a corp in 0.0 and flown with some major alliances. You might see a ten man gang deep in US TZ in an off area but in most war zones a ten man gang is a joke. Then again there are so many more people involved in 0.0 in EU time that sometimes US TZ folks have a problem grasping the difference.

Jas Dor
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.11 05:37:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Miraqu
Most alliances don't recruit at all. The few who do, have rather crazy requirements.

Even small corps have a chance, if that alliance is relocating, newly founded or changing. Then this alliance will often try to move into nullsec, with you, since you already in this alliance.

If that succeeds then you are part of a 0.0 alliance. But if you want to join an established alliance, you'll have to fulfil the requirements.

The best way for small player corps is to put an alt into their old corp as ceo and merge into an larger/established corp. That way you can keep your friends and you have some friends in your new corp.


So to get into 0.0 your corp has to die in a merger. Gee I don't know why anyone would object to such a thing.

Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
Posted - 2009.12.11 05:42:00 - [13]
 

... bubbles.

Surasak
Posted - 2009.12.11 06:03:00 - [14]
 

I started eve about a month ago, after going off it (then coming back) i decided THIS time NOT to stay put in empire 'untill i'm ready' for 0.0.

So i mined for a punisher, got some skill books, and went all the way (49 jumps) into stain, and did missions for Sansha. I have been camped in station quite a bit, you have to be careful though, NEVER undock when someone else is in the system, if you're in a frig. You won't be able to dock in time, or they will scram/kill you before you can warp off.

Also, get a good book, as you'll be in the station alot being camped by 4/5 year old players in HACs. i recommend starship troopers. But it is important you leave yourself logged on, nothing is funnier then coming back from the pub 9 hours later, and see they have been smacking you to leave the station, and 'come out and fight' (me punisher, him vaga)

When going anywhere but your home system (travelling to pick stuff up) make sure you nano the lows, and go in a frig after downtime, or when there is low amount of people on. I once had a vaga chase me 5 jumps then smack in local because i got away in a T1 frig.

I actually got my first kill, it was an ibis, and it was unmanned, but don't P*ss on my fire alright?!?>!

I know i won't be able to kill many things for a long time (so getting standing for amarr so i can join FW) in the mean time, i created a corp of my own, and if any corp takes my fancie, ill apply.

Oh yeah, and people will think you're a spy.

Miraqu
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.11 06:37:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Jas Dor


So to get into 0.0 your corp has to die in a merger. Gee I don't know why anyone would object to such a thing.



That is exactly the problem, yes. I may think of a few alliances which recruit new corps at all, but surely not a small (<20) member corp from highsec.

We had the same idea/troubles in around feb '09, but then we asked ourselves: Why did we found that corp? To play together with our friends. We pulled back from the first merger as the old corp was and is still open, but the second one was good and we all still play together and have around 150 new friends. Now we can do those things in 0.0 wich we never could do with our 20 ppl.

You can get really good conditions, like help in liquidating your assets, moving stuff and so on. Okay assets wasn't that much, some POS, Rorqual, Orca and a Carrier.

We (the members) lost nothing in that merger and we could go back anytime but now - more friends is really helpful.

Boink'urr
Minmatar
Wasserette De Tarthorst
Posted - 2009.12.11 08:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Mire Stoude
... bubbles.


I like bubbles, they're so frisky!

Rorin Cutter
Caldari
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.11 08:18:00 - [17]
 

Personally I think that this shows today’s EvE is a very playable game. Everyone plays there own version of it. And 0.0 is easy to get into. Take your twenty man corp and go. It is that easy. Many Alliances take small corps, and many do not. You have to have the will to do a bit of research. If your Corp has active pilots, decide what kind of an alliance you want to be in and do research on dotlan/google. Write evemails, get into public channels, and make friends. You will find your way onto 0.0. even as a small corp.

I find empire and low sec scary; hate it as a matter of fact. But it is a very valid and necessary part of the game. I can not think of a single good reason to force people to play only in 0.0 or hi/lowsec. EvE is our game, play it the way you like.

-Rorin

Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Merciless.
Posted - 2009.12.11 08:53:00 - [18]
 

don't take everything on a personal level. don't see your corp as "your group of friends". if your mindset is that your circle of close friends and the people in your corp have to be the same, it's no surprise that many things become problematic.

no matter if it's decissions of the leadership or different playstyles. when you say: "my corpmates are my friends" you're limiting yourself in the possible behavior (be it good or bad). disputes regarding in-game events suddenly become conflicts between "friends". your corpmates are your colleagues. if some of your colleagues are your friends, that's good. if not - no biggy either, unless it means outright antipathy.

or being told off by big(ger) alliances. they are not rejecting your corp on a personal level ("your community sucks"), in 99% of cases i'm sure it's because of organizational reasons. there are certain things a 0.0 alliance looks for - be it prowess when it comes to logistics/production and/or to small-scale/fleet/capital PvP. it doesn't matter that much to them if you're hating each other in corp (but still working together) or if you're best & closest friends (and also working together), as long as your organizational profile fulfills their expectations (e.g. a industry corp joining a PvP alliance will be looking pretty quick for a new alliance)

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2009.12.11 10:11:00 - [19]
 

I don't really see that as a problem.

Mrs Snowman
Posted - 2009.12.11 10:55:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Mrs Snowman on 11/12/2009 10:55:48
oh look, another highsec hugger who thinks he knows what 0.0 is like even though he's probably never been there.

You instantly discredit yourself with your first two sentences, which completely contradict each other.

Its like saying "the problem with soap opera's is that people never get on with each other" THATS THE POINT! Rolling Eyes


 

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