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Mogranon
Posted - 2009.12.10 11:06:00 - [1]
 

Gday everyone.. since started playing EVE a few months ago, this is my 1st post in the forums.

I need some help.. recently, I purchased a raven (moving up from a drake) in the hopes of running L4 Caldari missions to finance my soon-to-be PVP life. Since moving up from the drake, i've had alot of problems in L4's with my raven, especially with the tank which seems so paper thin compared to the drake.. and the DPS is another issue.

At the moment this is my raven fit.. it is "barely" cap stable.. if i try to remove a single flux coil in place of a Ballistic Control system II.. the cap goes down to about 3 minutes 45 seconds.. and L4 missions last around 30-45 minutes to complete.

Is there something i'm doing wrong? should i go for a passive tank instead? thanks for the feedback!

[High Slot]
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Drone Link augmenter I

[Medium Slot]
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Invulnerability Field II
Mission specific Active Hardener II
Mission specific Active Hardener II
Capacitor Recharger II
Ionic Field Accelerator I

[Low Slot]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

[Rig Slot]
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

[Drones]
Hobgoblin II x5
Medium Drone II x5 (forgot the name)

Notable Character skills..
SP: just under 7mill
Drones : 1 mill
Missiles: 700,000
Engineering: 650,000
Learning: 2.2mill
Caldari Battleship skill : L3
Battle cruiser skill : L3

just a note, that my drake absolutely melts "every" L3 mission.. but the DPS is not enough to run L4's with it, even though I'd love to.

Fornicis
Caldari
APOCALYPSE LEGION
Posted - 2009.12.10 11:15:00 - [2]
 

[High Slot]
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
Drone Link Augmentor

[Medium Slot]
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
2X Rat Specific Hardeners
1X Invuln Field
2X Shield Boost Amp (you're choice here I use Gist-A Type)

[Low Slot]
3x BCS II
1X DC (Best named)
1X PDS (Best named)

[Rigs]
3XCCC I

[Drones]
5X Hob I's
5X Hammer I's

Now, in reality I use a CNR which is obviously fitted a bit more expensively than this, I fit 7 Arbalest in the highs, CN X-Large SB, CN rat specifics X3 normally 2Expl and 1Kin mainly as I fight Angels. The cap on this lasts 1min 24secs with my skills, not very long right? I did Angels Extravaganza last night, didn't have to warp out and my cap only went to 50% at least, 80% shields minimum at all times. The point of the X-Large is to PULSE it, not run it constantly, check how much it pulses for when you fit it, then run it once when you're shields hit that point, not before.

Mogranon
Posted - 2009.12.10 11:24:00 - [3]
 

Excellent thank you very much! i'll be trying that as soon as the servers go up.

Fornicis
Caldari
APOCALYPSE LEGION
Posted - 2009.12.10 11:25:00 - [4]
 

No worries, anytime, just remember, as you're in a normal Raven your tank is gonna be a bit flimsy, also I assume you use eve-survival.org to learn which damage types each specific rat deals? If not, try it :)

Millie Clode
Amarr
Insert Cool Name Here
Posted - 2009.12.10 11:42:00 - [5]
 

Of course if you want something a bit more lulzy:

[High]
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I

[Medium]
X-L Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

[Low]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

[Rigs]
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

[Drones]
Hammerhead II x 5
Hobgoblin II x 5

Fornicis
Caldari
APOCALYPSE LEGION
Posted - 2009.12.10 11:46:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Millie Clode
Of course if you want something a bit more lulzy:

[High]
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I

[Medium]
X-L Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

[Low]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

[Rigs]
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

[Drones]
Hammerhead II x 5
Hobgoblin II x 5


Eh, a hell of alot more damage yes, but I think his tank wouldn't hold up to the rats there, although I wouldn't mind giving that a shot for the lulz :D

Arr0wyx
Posted - 2009.12.10 12:37:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Fornicis
Now, in reality I use a CNR which is obviously fitted a bit more expensively than this, I fit 7 Arbalest in the highs, CN X-Large SB, CN rat specifics X3 normally 2Expl and 1Kin mainly as I fight Angels. The cap on this lasts 1min 24secs with my skills, not very long right? I did Angels Extravaganza last night, didn't have to warp out and my cap only went to 50% at least, 80% shields minimum at all times. The point of the X-Large is to PULSE it, not run it constantly, check how much it pulses for when you fit it, then run it once when you're shields hit that point, not before.

I'd suggest a Heavy Cap Booster instead of a Shield Boost Amp for someone just moving into level 4's. 800 charges are cheap enough and will give you more sustained tank which you'll need since your dps most likely wont be high enough to prevent you from warping off all the time.

Occams Legwax
Posted - 2009.12.10 12:40:00 - [8]
 

While the CCC rigged raven is the standard approach it's not the fastest way to do missions, below is a heavier hitting setup that you might want to try:

[Raven, damsel distresser copy 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Internal Force Field Array I

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Hobgoblin II x5

Drop from heavy to medium nos if you don't have the fitting skills. Use a dread guristas XL booster and T2 launchers as soon as you have the isk and skills.

3x BCU, painter and flare / rigor rigs will allow you to kill off incoming DPS fast enough that you should rarely need to use the cap booster, it's nice to have in emergencies though.

There's a lot of older players who don't understand the missile formula and loose large chunks of their DPS by fitting CCC rigs instead of rigor, try fitting a target painter next time you're out and see the difference in the damage notification messages.

The lack of damage on unmodified cruise missiles is caused by the size of the explosion and the speed with which it accelerates (explosion radius / velocity) being larger and slower than the target ship. With skills and fitting you can concentrate the missile explosion into a smaller area and have the explosion travel faster to increase your effective DPS.

If you're mathematically inclined you can plug this formula into excel:

Damage = Base_Damage * MIN(MIN(sig/Er,1) , (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5)) )

Where
sig = ship's signature
vel = ship's velocity
Er = Explosion Radius of missile
Ev = Explosion Velocity of missile
drf = Damage Reduction Factor of missile

Skills wise it's well worth getting the following skills to level four as soon as possible:

Target navigation prediction
Guided missile precision
Rapid firing
Warhead upgrades

Those skills will have a massive impact on how fast you can lower the incoming DPS and shouldn't take long to train.

Sorry for the wall of text, hope it helps though ugh

Occams Legwax
Posted - 2009.12.10 13:43:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Mogranon

(moving up from a drake)



Would like to add that it's worth keeping hold of your drake for 3 reasons:

The mission buzz kill is best done in a drake (one of my favorite missions)

A drake can solo wormholes (raven can but has problems)

Also for times when the ravens tank simply can't hack the mission a full SPR drake can often lower the incoming DPS enough to bring the raven in by killing all the smaller stuff.

Originally by: Mogranon

my soon-to-be PVP life



If you want to pvp then i'd strongly advise getting a small group of mates together and running a few level fours in T1 cruisers and offer to be the tank useing a caracal with the following fit:

[Caracal, PVE]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Alumel-Wired I Sensor Augmentation, Targeting Range
Small Shield Booster II
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x2


You'll need to use range and speed to tank so it will be a gentle introduction to the art of the caracal and if you want to be any good in a pvp then learning how to use a caracal properly will give you a good base of RL skills.

Once you get into pvp the cookie cutter fits are:

[Caracal, heavy]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x2


[Caracal, little ass]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x2

Brent riper
Caldari
Night Wolves
Posted - 2009.12.10 13:58:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Brent riper on 10/12/2009 14:00:14
Edited by: Brent riper on 10/12/2009 13:58:49

Originally by: Millie Clode
Of course if you want something a bit more lulzy:

[High]
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I
Arbalest Siege missile launcher I

[Medium]
X-L Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

[Low]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

[Rigs]
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

[Drones]
Hammerhead II x 5
Hobgoblin II x 5



that is simmilar to what i use except i have 4 hardners rat specific t2 xl booster cap booster or boot amp. works great

Mogranon
Posted - 2009.12.10 14:26:00 - [11]
 

woah, thankx so much for all the help everyone!

I'm actually copy-pasting all these into MS-word incase this topic gets lost or something..

for PVP I thought about using a stealth bomber.. At the moment my gunnery skills are really low, so my only option is missiles in pvp and plus i'm training for the T2 Caldari exploration frigate.

I already have 3 or 4 fully fitted carcals for PVP already + my drake which I mainly use for exploration now. My Raven has been sitting in a station for about a week.. I haven't tried taking it out ever since I nearly lost it in "Dimsel in Distress" mission, which got me kinda depressed Sad

Those caracal fits look pretty awesome, I'll probably upgrade my fits very soon and go out to get some practice.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2009.12.10 14:51:00 - [12]
 

Don't try to be cap stable. The less DPS you do, the more tank you need.

I have really poor combat skills (level 2 mostly) and I can do level 4 with ease in my Raven. Just pick the right hardeners for each mission's rats.

[Raven, Basic (EM+Therm)]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II

Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Mia Restolo
Posted - 2009.12.10 15:21:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Mogranon
At the moment this is my raven fit.. it is "barely" cap stable.. if i try to remove a single flux coil in place of a Ballistic Control system II.. the cap goes down to about 3 minutes 45 seconds.. and L4 missions last around 30-45 minutes to complete.



Cap stable with an XL booster is way over tanking a Raven, you should really only need about 2 minutes of stability and only pulse your booster for a minute when your shields get down to about 30%.

Your mids look decent, but I would suggest replacing all of those cap flux coils in the lows with a mix of power diagnostic system IIs and BCUs, less PDSs and more BCUs as you gain better cap skills. Maybe a damage control until you get a feel for running your ship.

To perma run a raven and still have decent DPS you need to look into the smaller complex boosters such as a pair of pithi small boosters or a medium.

Birdman Ravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.10 15:51:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Mia Restolo
Cap stable with an XL booster is way over tanking a Raven, you should really only need about 2 minutes of stability and only pulse your booster for a minute when your shields get down to about 30%.

...

To perma run a raven and still have decent DPS you need to look into the smaller complex boosters such as a pair of pithi small boosters or a medium.

QFE. A cap stable XL boosted Raven is just a mildly bigger drake - the same unbreakable tank but kills battleships fast instead of cruisers. A large Gist shield booster will do the trick. The C / B types aren't too expensive by deadspace standards, but to get back the Drake-style feeling of invincibility, you'll have to got for the A or X type.

Tarinara
Posted - 2009.12.10 17:59:00 - [15]
 

Mogranon: with both just getting into a Raven & L4's plus your Eng SP's: you're going to be stuck with those 5 Flux Coils for a while. Work on getting Shield Management up to 5 so you can get into t2 boost amps. They help tremendously. I'd also recommend dropping the 2nd specific hardener and going with a 2nd boost amp.

As for the 'Tank' v/s 'Gank' arguement: get comfortable flying your Raven and with running L4's. There's nothing wrong with a perma tank. It's auto pilot and you can focus on completing the mission & making ISK's/LP's. It just takes a while longer. When your skills get higher you can move into a DPS fit when you're ready. This thread is a good place to look over DPS fits: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1178407. AstroPhobic is a wise sage concerning Ravens IMO and his advice is always sound.

Zycorax II
Tau Online Explorator Corp
Posted - 2009.12.10 22:54:00 - [16]
 

[Raven, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
100MN Afterburner II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5


Switch to meta 3 or meta 4 if you can't use t2.

Derek Sigres
Posted - 2009.12.10 23:02:00 - [17]
 

Without really knowing the skills involved, I'll keep my statement brief.

Unless you are willing to invest a LOT of capital into a Raven, trying to produce an active tank that can run forever is a folly. While it provides an excellent safety net for the first forrays into level IV missions, which are the first missions a caldari player will encounter that have a reasonable chance to kill you, the resulting hit in damage is staggering.

As a general purpose compromise fitting, I'd ALWAYS fit 2 BCU's minimum - the rest of the lows can be used for whatever cap gear you choose (I generally suggest PDU's as you don't compromise your burst tank). The stock standard mids for a new level 4 runner are likely XL Booster, Amp, and 4 shield hardeners. Rigs are generally cap control circuits.


The trouble is, getting a cap stable design with the black hole that is the XL booster is difficult at best and requires the sacrifice of most (or all) low slots. The Gist line of boosters is the key to victory as they not only produce better shield output, they do so at roughly half the cap. THis means you can become cap stable with little more than rigs and an item or two. Unfortunately, the best models of the XL deadspace booster line cost somewhere on the order of 5 - 12x more than the ship itself.

Occams Legwax
Posted - 2009.12.11 01:49:00 - [18]
 

I still think you're all crazy for fitting CCC rigs. Just my opinion though.


 

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