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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2009.12.09 19:26:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Norwood Franskly
Originally by: Kenpotchi
Vaga setup

3 Gyros or gtfo


That paradigm is outdated.

Given we are using the equivalent of 4 slots for damage / range mods, i.e. 4 lows or 3 lows and 2 rigs, the 2 gyro / 2 TE variant provides the better damage profile up to overheated web range for both longrange and shortrange ammo.


Kenpotchi
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:04:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Norwood Franskly
Originally by: Kenpotchi
Vaga setup

3 Gyros or gtfo


That paradigm is outdated.

Given we are using the equivalent of 4 slots for damage / range mods, i.e. 4 lows or 3 lows and 2 rigs, the 2 gyro / 2 TE variant provides the better damage profile up to overheated web range for both longrange and shortrange ammo.




o/\o Thanks for the back up on that one cuz i really didnt feel like explaining it.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:04:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Intigo on 09/12/2009 20:10:19
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Norwood Franskly
Originally by: Kenpotchi
Vaga setup

3 Gyros or gtfo


That paradigm is outdated.

Given we are using the equivalent of 4 slots for damage / range mods, i.e. 4 lows or 3 lows and 2 rigs, the 2 gyro / 2 TE variant provides the better damage profile up to overheated web range for both longrange and shortrange ammo.




Any proof of that? I'm far too lazy to calculate it personally.

You're comparing 3 Gyro / 1 TE to 2 Gyro / 2 TE, right?

Last time I had a look at it I came up with the 3 Gyro setup (with 220s) coming up ahead up untill ~20k or so before being overtaken.

Edit: This was for Barrage.

Kenpotchi
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:22:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Kenpotchi on 09/12/2009 20:23:01
We are talking about my personal set up is all. In the lows I used 2x Gyro II, 2x TE II, and a DCU II. Sure i can drop the DCU II for a third gyro but w/e.

For Gyro II x3. Yes it will put out more damage but the paradox is that with TEs is that they add on to falloff and increase tracking. With 2x TE falloff is at 27km with close range ammo and 41km with barrage. Also I can effectivly put 75% dammage on an opponent at 20-24km with close range ammo while keeping my speed up.

Thats about it.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:25:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Kenpotchi
Edited by: Kenpotchi on 09/12/2009 20:23:01
We are talking about my personal set up is all. In the lows I used 2x Gyro II, 2x TE II, and a DCU II. Sure i can drop the DCU II for a third gyro but w/e.

For Gyro II x3. Yes it will put out more damage but the paradox is that with TEs is that they add on to falloff and increase tracking. With 2x TE falloff is at 27km with close range ammo and 41km with barrage. Also I can effectivly put 75% dammage on an opponent at 20-24km with close range ammo while keeping my speed up.

Thats about it.


That's not proof. Ignore tracking and do some maths. ;)

Tolsimir Wolfblood
Templars of Space
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:29:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Tolsimir Wolfblood on 09/12/2009 20:30:17
Edited by: Tolsimir Wolfblood on 09/12/2009 20:29:09

Embarassed

Studley Goodfk
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:30:00 - [37]
 

As I see it, using my mediocre EFT Warrioring skills, with 2 Gyro and 2 TEs it becomes viable to use EMP/Fusion on a 20km orbit with 220mm ACs. In addition, on a tighter orbit it improves the quality of hits and increases damage as you are fighting lower and lower into falloff. As I understand it, the further towards the outer limit of falloff you are the less damage you do, so if you fit more TEs and increase your max falloff it will increase your damage in the mid ranges.

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:41:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 09/12/2009 20:45:28
Originally by: Intigo

Any proof of that? I'm far too lazy to calculate it personally.

You're comparing 3 Gyro / 1 TE to 2 Gyro / 2 TE, right?



Yes, I used 1 RoF / 1 dmg rig instead of 2nd / 3rd gyro, difference is minimal though. Also used 180s, but here are your numbers as requested:


For the sake of comparison, 220s 1) 3 gyro / 1 TE vs 2) 2 gyro / 2 TE:


@30km, barrage: 1) 200 dps 2) 231 dps
@25km, barrage: 1) 251 dps 2) 266 dps
@20km, barrage: 1) 302 dps 2) 299 dps

@20km, RF EMP: 1) 245 dps 2) 284 dps
@15km, RF EMP: 1) 331 dps 2) 345 dps


As you can see there is only a very small band where the 3gyro / 1TE comes ahead with barrage, with shortrange faction its pretty much in a distance where you dont wanna be anyway.

Given that we also get the additional tracking, there is little reason for the 3/1 variant imo.

This is with 220s, with 180s the advantage is more pronounced for the 2/2 variant.


Edit: I'm using a 30km point on the vagabond, so my opinion might be biased towards ranged combat. And as the poster above me mentioned, it makes damage selection viable at longer ranges, which is a good thing.

sakana
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:44:00 - [39]
 

Vagabond is probably the best ship in game, a lot of people are really bad a flying/fitting them tho...



Kenpotchi
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:47:00 - [40]
 

Yes using EFT and my set up against a legion that I use while traveling at full speed I will hit for 400 DPS most of the time at 20km

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:48:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 09/12/2009 20:45:28
Originally by: Intigo

Any proof of that? I'm far too lazy to calculate it personally.

You're comparing 3 Gyro / 1 TE to 2 Gyro / 2 TE, right?



Yes, I used 1 RoF / 1 dmg rig instead of 2nd / 3rd gyro, difference is minimal though. Also used 180s, but here are your numbers as requested:


For the sake of comparison, 220s 1) 3 gyro / 1 TE vs 2) 2 gyro / 2 TE:


@30km, barrage: 1) 200 dps 2) 231 dps
@25km, barrage: 1) 251 dps 2) 266 dps
@20km, barrage: 1) 302 dps 2) 299 dps

@20km, RF EMP: 1) 245 dps 2) 284 dps
@15km, RF EMP: 1) 331 dps 2) 345 dps


As you can see there is only a very small band where the 3gyro / 1TE comes ahead with barrage, with shortrange faction its pretty much in a distance where you dont wanna be anyway.

Given that we also get the additional tracking, there is little reason for the 3/1 variant imo.

This is with 220s, with 180s the advantage is more pronounced for the 2/2 variant.


Edit: I'm using a 30km point on the vagabond, so my opinion might be biased towards ranged combat. And as the poster above me mentioned, it makes damage selection viable at longer ranges, which is a good thing.


So you're basically saying what I'm saying and that is that at sub 20k range you're still doing more damage with the 3 Gyro setup using Barrage? Razz

As someone who hunts ratters a ton (where you get up in their face and personal) I think I'll stick to 3 Gyros (but yes, TEs are amazing now).

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2009.12.09 20:56:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 09/12/2009 21:02:04
Originally by: Intigo

So you're basically saying what I'm saying and that is that at sub 20k range you're still doing more damage with the 3 Gyro setup using Barrage? Razz



Yes, if you stick to barrage below 20km, you are at the advantage, but that advantage is very slight, 3 dps @ 20km, 12 dps @ 18km. Below those ranges, you might just as well go for faction ammo, see below.

Originally by: Intigo

As someone who hunts ratters a ton (where you get up in their face and personal) I think I'll stick to 3 Gyros (but yes, TEs are amazing now).


In that case I would go with the 2/2 variant, since you can switch to faction shortrange earlier, and thus match the resistance holes of the ratter. Even if you are not hunting ratters, that option has more benefit imo.

For those cases when you go to knife range, you are obviously better off with triple gyro, though that rarely happens in my experience.

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2009.12.09 22:05:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship.


Why don't you get your carrier doomsdayed about it?

Bluntroller
Posted - 2009.12.09 23:10:00 - [44]
 

lots of people in this thread dont know whats up

But of course I wont share my vaga secrets :P

Machz
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.12.09 23:27:00 - [45]
 

I don't understand what the paradox is. Dealing "mediocre" damage as a result of flying "safely" isn't a paradox, it's a logical balance mechanic. The relationship between defensive and offensive capability should be inverse.

jimmyjam
Gallente
Sinner Among Saints
Exquisite Malevolence
Posted - 2009.12.10 01:51:00 - [46]
 

the new changes they made with the enhancers has made my vaga a lot better tbh i use a 180 set up and a 220 setup . the falloff for my small gun version is about 35 km with better tracking is awesome even at high speeds i dont see the problem.

Enkilil
Minmatar
Thirteen Ninety Three
Posted - 2009.12.10 06:11:00 - [47]
 

Wait, wait... so your ship isn't ungodly fast AND doing an unspeakable amount of damage?


Caldari Citizen4714
Posted - 2009.12.10 15:19:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Enkilil
Wait, wait... so your ship isn't ungodly fast AND doing an unspeakable amount of damage?


And basically made of paper, yes.

Tal'Shi Sonya
Posted - 2010.01.14 12:57:00 - [49]
 

Vaga's good at what they do, right until the point where the prey brings a TD with optimal range script, at which point the Vaga might as well be throwing spit balls.

Cpt Cosmic
Posted - 2010.01.14 15:02:00 - [50]
 

this is a common setup, some people prefer a Suitcase instead of the 3rd gyro.

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Proxyyyy
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.01.14 15:07:00 - [51]
 

Bump! Vagabondage is only for kinky extreme speed and dps lover's. (Keep on flying flora) im sure in time you'll get a hang of this awesome ship...







Respect! God im bored = /

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2010.01.14 15:25:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito

When I am training people I tell them to basically ignore Vagas do to the above. A solo Vega is not a threat to a half decent fit ratter. When you start hitting multiple Vaga's things change, but if your out numbered your in trouble anyway.

Vega's are in much better shape then back in the nano age.


Vaga nowadays do far more damage than they did during the nano age, and even during the nano age they had enough damage to kill ratters.

Cyb3r Thr3at
The Scope
Posted - 2010.01.14 16:04:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 14/01/2010 16:24:01
The only Vaga setup that you'll need.

[Dominion Vagabond]

Woops! Sorry people, just decided that i didn't want to share my Vaga fit. So if you missed it too bad, if you didn't.. then you scored! ;)

Endless Subversion
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.01.14 16:43:00 - [54]
 

Posting Cyb3r Thr3at's super secret fit because
A) "oh my fit is too good to share" ****es me off.
B) It isn't very good.

<3 Eve Search.

Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at
Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 14/01/2010 16:24:01
The only Vaga setup that you'll need.

[Dominion Vagabond]

The only Vaga setup that you'll need.

[Dominion Vagabond]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I


Warrior II x5

Kenpotchi
Posted - 2010.01.14 16:47:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Endless Subversion
Posting Cyb3r Thr3at's super secret fit because
A) "oh my fit is too good to share" ****es me off.
B) It isn't very good.

<3 Eve Search.

Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at
Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 14/01/2010 16:24:01
The only Vaga setup that you'll need.

[Dominion Vagabond]

The only Vaga setup that you'll need.

[Dominion Vagabond]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I


Warrior II x5



The failtasitcness of this setup make me squirt milk out of my nose.

Cyb3r Thr3at
The Scope
Posted - 2010.01.14 17:16:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Kenpotchi
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Posting Cyb3r Thr3at's super secret fit because
A) "oh my fit is too good to share" ****es me off.
B) It isn't very good.

<3 Eve Search.

Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at
Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 14/01/2010 16:24:01
The only Vaga setup that you'll need.

[Dominion Vagabond]

The only Vaga setup that you'll need.

[Dominion Vagabond]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I


Warrior II x5



The failtasitcness of this setup make me squirt milk out of my nose.
Really? LOL Care to explain why?

Tenpun M
Posted - 2010.01.14 17:22:00 - [57]
 

the problem with the vaga is that it's so predictable, they are all understandably setup to it's strenghts and flown in exactly the same way. I've never died to a vaga, you either know you can kill one and engage, or know you can't and don't bother

Kenpotchi
Posted - 2010.01.14 17:37:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Kenpotchi on 14/01/2010 17:39:02

[Vagabond, New Setup 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I or another Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I


Warrior II x5


2620 M/S, 570 DPS with out implants, 29km falloff, tracking is 0.17... and 21,871 EHP

Needs a 'Squire'PG2 or better to fit.

Edit: 471 DPS with Barrage with a 44km Falloff.

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2010.01.14 17:42:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at

Quote:

The failtasitcness of this setup make me squirt milk out of my nose.
Really? LOL Care to explain why?


Because that since falloff increase as you go up in autocannon tier that makes using the smaller tier seriously fail on a falloff bonused ship.

Cyb3r Thr3at
The Scope
Posted - 2010.01.14 18:07:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at

Quote:

The failtasitcness of this setup make me squirt milk out of my nose.
Really? LOL Care to explain why?


Because that since falloff increase as you go up in autocannon tier that makes using the smaller tier seriously fail on a falloff bonused ship.
My Dual 180 II split TE/Gyro fit was intended to greatly enhance the 180's superior tracking ability over 220's. Thats why i use Dual 180's vs 220's. Id rather fly a little closer & hit more often than not. Plus, I really dont need to sweat much with fast tackle frigs, the dual 180's shreads them in seconds, especialy with my enhanced tracking setup. So, no, i don't see any fail with my setup, my fit caters to the kind of play-style that i enjoy. :)


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