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Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.06 22:34:00 - [1]
 

It is with a note of caution that I come before you to explain some concerns I have with the direction our State is taking. Not, specifically, the State itself, but rather the actions of some in the State Protectorate.

It is an article of common knowledge at this point that the State Protectorate has been assisting the 24th Imperial Crusade in their campaigns. And, many would say, why should we not? The Federal Defense Union is smashed, and our pickets patrol the edges of Federation hi-sec. Truly, this is a good day for the State.

And yet there are two matters which would lead us towards the path of caution. We have always been loathe to involve ourselves in the affairs of others, perhaps now is a good time to consider our actions once again.

First, the Gallente threat has not been neutralized, but enhanced. The election of President Roden is a symbol of the will of the Gallente people to fight on. Moreover, it is a symbol of a continued radicalization of their cause, similar to the Duvalle presidency. The Gallente will not rest until the State is smashed, the corporate leaders and managers executed for their crimes against "humanity", and every State citizen a prisoner of war in her own home. And those are the merciful ones. Others, many others, call for the extermination of our race in its entirety. As one can see from the postings of such as General Soter and Alidaar, we lie outside of what they consider "humanity".

We have chosen our path, and those in the State who do not agree with it are, as we all know, free to leave or to attempt to change it from within, climbing the ranks on merit and accomplishment. But the Gallente will not rest from their attempts to destroy us and our culture until we overpower them to the point that they come to their senses. Turning our back to them is to turn our back to a viper.

Second, consider our "ally", the Amarr Empire. In its own way, the Empire is just as genocidal and focused on the alteration of other societies as the Gallente. Consider the following statement from an Imperial loyalist:

Quote:
Let the Caldar and Gallente batter themselves into weakness and let the full might of the Empire fall upon the matar. Then the Empire will fall like a meteor upon the remnants of the Caldari and Gallente fleets and finally unite the whole cluster under God and our Glorious Empress Jamyl I.


Can we truly be willing to aid an Empire that thinks in this way? Consider, now, what will happen if the Empire swallows the Republic. Really, truly think on it. Do you think that they will be content with that?

Perhaps I am wrong; I will certainly inquire as to their intentions concerning the State. But their philosophy of theocracy under a despot is no less oppressive to the spirit of the Caldari people than the imposition of a large and weighty central government operating under a philosophy of "democracy until we disagree with you". The Caldari, odd as it sounds to use the term, must be free from all who would oppress them, and this includes the Amarr. The Amarr do not believe in our systems of advancement by merit, our customs, or our religious beliefs. They would stamp them out just as firmly as the Gallente do.

The State stands on a balancing beam between a chasm and an abyss. The Matari have sold their souls to the Federation, and only now - and painfully - try to pull them back. Let us not sell ourselves to the Amarr. Let us be what we are, and only what we are: Caldari.


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.06 23:02:00 - [2]
 

Vikarion, would you be so kind as to provide for us the source of this alleged quote of yours?

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.06 23:04:00 - [3]
 

It is in the three-system reclamation thread. Of course, I could be mistaken, it might be a false flag. But Kostantin Mort said similar things when he was with PIE.

Do you deny that the objective of the Empire is to eventually conquer and enslave the State as part of the Reclamation?

Neu Bastian
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.12.06 23:08:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Vikarion
Stuff


If I was Caldari, I'd listen to this guy.

ChipMo
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.12.06 23:14:00 - [5]
 

I share your sentiment but for slightly different reasons. It has been a while now since I worked for a true Caldari corporation but I can't deny where I came from. There is a microcosm if anyone wants to imagine what an Amarr-Caldari Empire would look like... CVA + I-RED.

I'd hate to see the state corporations become a tool for Sarum to exploit. The republic also offers great entrepreneurial opportunities for savvy Caldari corporations if it falls to the Amarrians we can kiss bye bye to a quarter of the galaxies productivity & innovation.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.06 23:25:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 06/12/2009 23:35:07
Edited by: Stitcher on 06/12/2009 23:25:06
"I hope I do not need to remind you, honoured son of my sister, that a Paarik mercenary's first loyalty is currency, and that he will do all in his power to earn as much as possible. He will take your money to fight alongside your men - and your foe's money to slit your throat during your most distracted moment at the height of the battle. The wise General accepts their aid on the battlefield, but never invites them to take tea with him.

The art to best employing the Paarik is to find the balancing point where you neither allow them to eclipse your immediate foe, nor focus so much on the danger in front that you forget the one standing alongside. You should be mindful of both enemies, and fearful of neither."


The above was written by an illustrious ancestor of mine, one Lord Toriv Hakaat, in a letter to his nephew General Fisk Vaukart, written seven years after Hakaat's succesful deployment of Paarik mercenaries at the battle of the Wiyrk fields. General Vaukart reportedly thwarted an assassination attempt by Paarik in his own army immediately prior to the battle of Juyen-Shathi.

It would be very silly of us to forget that the prime duty of the Empire is its Divine Obligation to enlighten the heathen and the uninitiated. I personally hold on to hope that we can talk them out of all this "slavery and conquering" business, given time.

But then again, I rather like being part of a distinct and unique culture with its own heritage, spiritual practices and ethical framework. So even the best-case scenario for a hypothetical Reclamation of the State would be upsettingly destructive to the Caldari way of life.

The point being, the Empire isn't a potential future threat to the State - it is a present threat. So too are the Minmatar and Gallente however, and their preference for guns rather than words make them the more pressing concern.

Still, I'd agree that there's no good reason for us to be making enemies of the Minmatar. Of all the four empires, I'd say the Republic is the one we actually have the most common ground with, from a philosophical point of view. Too bad each of us have had good dealings with the other's mortal foes. Such things do tend to sour the political wine.

Alex Hinkelmann
Caldari
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2009.12.06 23:33:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: ChipMo
I share your sentiment but for slightly different reasons. It has been a while now since I worked for a true Caldari corporation but I can't deny where I came from. There is a microcosm if anyone wants to imagine what an Amarr-Caldari Empire would look like... CVA + I-RED.

I'd hate to see the state corporations become a tool for Sarum to exploit. The republic also offers great entrepreneurial opportunities for savvy Caldari corporations if it falls to the Amarrians we can kiss bye bye to a quarter of the galaxies productivity & innovation.


The Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive is exploiting the resources of Providence much like Ishukone Corporation is exploiting along with many other Mega-Corporations the trade agreements with the Amarr Empire.

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2009.12.06 23:53:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Vikarion
It is in the three-system reclamation thread. Of course, I could be mistaken, it might be a false flag. But Kostantin Mort said similar things when he was with PIE.


It was my comment. Blake is in a huff because he has never had the faith of Sarum. A good fighter but too tied up in the status quo.

Originally by: Vikarion

Do you deny that the objective of the Empire is to eventually conquer and enslave the State as part of the Reclamation?


It isn't conquest brother, it is freedom! The State may be a meritocracy in theory but the evil and greed of men perverts the system and crushes many. Only through the embrace of God's Holy Order can our souls be truly free!

How can a man achieve equality? "We will make everyone equal" says the Federation. "We will let you fight for position" says the State. "You live for the tribe" says the Republic. "God will make all righteous men equal in the final reckoning" say the Amarr.

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.07 00:20:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: theRaptor

It isn't conquest brother, it is freedom! The State may be a meritocracy in theory but the evil and greed of men perverts the system and crushes many. Only through the embrace of God's Holy Order can our souls be truly free!


You are not my brother. You are hnolku, traitor. You would subjugate us just as the Gallente would.

As for evil, my experiences in the Empire lead me to believe that they aren't particularly more virtuous, but rather "sin" in different areas. Such as enslaving others. And your advice that we embrace "Holy Order" is the demand that we submit ourselves to enslavement.

A thousand times no. We will not be enslaved, not to the Amarr, not to the Gallente, to no one. We make our destiny. We, by our will, survive, thrive, and profit. We will never bow to Amarr willingly.

Originally by: theRaptor
How can a man achieve equality? "We will make everyone equal" says the Federation. "We will let you fight for position" says the State. "You live for the tribe" says the Republic. "God will make all righteous men equal in the final reckoning" say the Amarr.


Why should we make all equal? Equality is impossible, as we are born not equal. In the State, you are offered opportunity. In the Empire...well, as I recall, the True Amarr are considered much more "equal" than anyone else.

In the State (ideally), anyone can ascend to the position of CEO, if they possess the wit, capability, and competence to do so. In the Empire, stations are largely fixed. In the Federation, it's who you know and how much wealth you possess. If there is any system that tries to make economic mobility possible, it is the State, not the Empire.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.07 00:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Vikarion
It is in the three-system reclamation thread. Of course, I could be mistaken, it might be a false flag. But Kostantin Mort said similar things when he was with PIE.


It was my comment. Blake is in a huff because he has never had the faith of Sarum. A good fighter but too tied up in the status quo.



The last time I checked, Caldari Provisions was not recognised by most people as a corporation loyal to the Empire. I also suggest that anyone who thinks that theRaptor might might a loyalist look at his employment history.

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.07 00:31:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
The last time I checked, Caldari Provisions was not recognised by most people as a corporation loyal to the Empire. I also suggest that anyone who thinks that theRaptor might might a loyalist look at his employment history.


That's irrelevant to my point. Do you agree or disagree with his sentiments regarding the reclamation of the Caldari State?

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2009.12.07 00:33:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: theRaptor on 07/12/2009 00:35:53
Edited by: theRaptor on 07/12/2009 00:33:39
Originally by: Rodj Blake
The last time I checked, Caldari Provisions was not recognised by most people as a corporation loyal to the Empire. I also suggest that anyone who thinks that theRaptor might might a loyalist look at his employment history.


Last I checked the Matari Elders did a, typically, poor job of ending CONCORD's inane bureaucracy that insists every pilot must be registered to a capsuleer corporation or one of national origin. As I have only recently returned from three years of trial in nullsec, serving the Empress every day, I have not yet gained new employment

And what of my employment history Blake? I was a Fractionist but found what I was looking for under the tutelage of Inquisitor Bastables and from that time have been a loyal servant of House Sarum. Yes, I later spent some time in the south .... but I had my orders.

ChipMo
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.12.07 00:34:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Vikarion

That's irrelevant to my point. Do you agree or disagree with his sentiments regarding the reclamation of the Caldari State?


Amarrians can't answer simple questions, I think there is a commandment about it or something. Good luck though, the protectorate deserve to know who they're fighting for.

Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.07 00:57:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Vikarion

That's irrelevant to my point. Do you agree or disagree with his sentiments regarding the reclamation of the Caldari State?


Disagree. We have more than enough to deal with in both the direction of Providence and the direction of Heimatar, that we would have to be the stupidest people ever to have lived to then go and set our sights on our allies.

They are a respectable people with a great deal of virtue who make valuable allies to the people of God, and we, despite what the Gallente may have said about us, have no tradition of backstabbing our allies. A fact to which the Khanid race is a living testament.


Rayth Phaenor
Caldari
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2009.12.07 01:02:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: theRaptor
The State may be a meritocracy in theory but the evil and greed of men perverts the system and crushes many.

The Empire may be a virtuous religion in theory but the evil and greed of men perverts the system and crushes many.

No system is perfectly efficient, but we prefer ours. I do not begrudge your acceptance of the Amarrian faith. I do begrudge your conviction to force it upon me, my family, and my people.

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.07 01:03:00 - [16]
 

As much as the question was directed to Rodj Blake, I am still pleased that such an influential person as yourself has spoken, Mr. Lok'ri. And it is good to know that you possess such wisdom.

In fact, I would like to ask any and all Amarr capsuleers: do you agree or disagree with the notion that the Empire must eventually reclaim the Caldari State?

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2009.12.07 01:11:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: theRaptor on 07/12/2009 01:11:50
Originally by: Vikarion
In fact, I would like to ask any and all Amarr capsuleers: do you agree or disagree with the notion that the Empire must eventually reclaim the Caldari State?


To not want to do so in the long term shows nothing but hatred for the Caldari people. The proper place for the Caldari in God's creation is serving at the sides of his chosen people and thus earning eternal favor.

I just think on a shorter time scale. Reclaiming never had much popularity outside of those loyal to House Sarum so it is natural that those loyal to other houses are slow to embrace the concept now that our Empress has returned.

Wayward Daughter
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.07 01:12:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Vikarion
As much as the question was directed to Rodj Blake, I am still pleased that such an influential person as yourself has spoken, Mr. Lok'ri. And it is good to know that you possess such wisdom.

In fact, I would like to ask any and all Amarr capsuleers: do you agree or disagree with the notion that the Empire must eventually reclaim the Caldari State?
Much as your Executor is empowered only by the faith of your People, so is our Empress empowered only by the Grace of our God. It is my belief as an Amarr capsuleer that the Holy Amarr Empire must do only what God commands it to do, and that Her Majesty and the Theology Council will direct the physical nation of Amarr in accordance with Divine Providence. I know of no other intentions, but I am merely a soldier. Ours is not to reason why; ours is but to do and die. Should God direct us to strike deeply at the Caldari State tomorrow, then I believe the Faithful will fight as passionately tomorrow against the State as we fight today against the Matari.

I am but one voice, and I am not immune to misspeaking. Consider also the words of others, and do not assume that I speak for the Empire.

Drakonus Laerdon
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.07 01:24:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Vikarion

In fact, I would like to ask any and all Amarr capsuleers: do you agree or disagree with the notion that the Empire must eventually reclaim the Caldari State?


Mr. Vikarion, there are many ways to "Reclaim" a people. If you look closely, Caldari virtues and Amarrian virtues are very similar: both are extremely proud of our respective nations, both are very powerful in their own right (Amarr with territory, Caldari with technology), both governments are similar (Holders vs. Megacorporations), and boast dedicated loyalists.

What separates us is belief in God. Once the Caldari come to embrace the Lord, they will already be reclaimed. This does not necessitate violence.

The Gallente and Minmatar cultures, however, must be destroyed: the Minmatar for their violent, backwards tribalism, and the Gallente for their embracement of sin and debauchery.

Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2009.12.07 03:41:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Jakiin on 07/12/2009 03:55:42
Originally by: Vikarion
In fact, I would like to ask any and all Amarr capsuleers: do you agree or disagree with the notion that the Empire must eventually reclaim the Caldari State?


I am Amarr, though not of the Empire, and perhaps as a subject of the Kingdom I am more pro-Caldari than the typical Faithful in other Territories, but here is my answer nonetheless:

Yes, as a nation of men like any other the Territories must seek to reclaim the State. However our Reclaiming would not be the Reclaimings of olde when we would attack any who did not believe us, nor would it be the cultural imperialism that the Gallente practice where we would maintain a burning hatred simply because you do not agree with us. If anything this would be counterproductive: Though the Amarr Territories combined probably hold some four to five times the number of ships that the Caldari could muster, the Kingdom is the only one whose ships are near the technological development of the State. The State would cut through our superior forces like a hot knife through butter, and that blade would be at the throat of the Throne Worlds before we could hope to overwhelm it. No, we cannot attempt to force you to see the Light. But we do not believe we need to.

The Lord is Righteous, the Word is Good, and the Faith is Final. It is our belief that through trade and diplomacy the Faith will eventually spread, and that most if not all Caldari will eventually follow Him. You are free to view this as you will, to change it to suite your culture, the Faith does not necessitate authoritarianism over collectivism. We will simply make the lessons available and teach all those who wish to learn, no more.

I know what you're thinking. "And if this does not work? If we prove to be resistant to your 'Word'?" Well then it depends. The Empress has many centuries of life within her still, and she has adopted a very reactionary policy. So long as the Caldari do not seek to harm the Empire, then the Empire would not seek to harm the Caldari. The Mandate and Delivered Systems follow the Empire, so they would war with anyone that the Empire is at peace with. And of course the Kingdom an State have been close allies since our King departed from the Empire, we will be the last to wish violence upon you.

When Jamyl Sarum is embraced by the Lord in a few hundred years, then the foreign policy will change based on who next rises to the throne. But that will be a new Empire, and the political landscape will have changed so dramatically by that point that there's no reason to speculate.

Oh, as a side note: While much is made of the racism that supposedly occurs within the Amarr Territories, you will notice that the head of the Imperial Navy is a Ni-Kunni, the head of the Royal Khanid Navy is a Ni-Kunni who is also a member of the Royal Family itself, the head of the Delivered Systems is a Gallente and the Mandate is run almost entirely by Matari.

Due to the hereditary nature of power within many aspect of the Imperial Government the True Amarr do feature prominently. However just as the Caldari define themselves first by the State, second by their Megacorporation and a distant third by their bloodline the Amarr define ourselves first by our Faith, second by our Territory and a distant third by our race.

Vincent Death
Inglorious-Basterds
Posted - 2009.12.07 07:42:00 - [21]
 

If the Ammar ever seek to commit an act of force against the State then our only sensible course of action would be to see to it that such an action can never be carried out again.

Do I believe that the State has the capabilities to achieve such a victory? Yes.

Do I believe that the Empire would commit such an act? No.


Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2009.12.07 14:46:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Drakonus Laerdon
Originally by: Vikarion

In fact, I would like to ask any and all Amarr capsuleers: do you agree or disagree with the notion that the Empire must eventually reclaim the Caldari State?


Mr. Vikarion, there are many ways to "Reclaim" a people. If you look closely, Caldari virtues and Amarrian virtues are very similar: both are extremely proud of our respective nations, both are very powerful in their own right (Amarr with territory, Caldari with technology), both governments are similar (Holders vs. Megacorporations), and boast dedicated loyalists.

Your gross generalizations of similarity only demonstrate how little you actually understand us. It is possible to take what you have written and apply it as a comparision between the Federation and Empire and how similar they are.

Originally by: Drakonus Laerdon
What separates us is belief in God. Once the Caldari come to embrace the Lord, they will already be reclaimed. This does not necessitate violence.

You insult my ancestors.


It is simply Imperial; we assert that the Caldari put the State and their megacorporation, before your Empire.

Jacqueline Dax
Caldari
Raiders of the Open Stars
Posted - 2009.12.07 20:58:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Wayward Daughter
Much as your Executor is empowered only by the faith of your People, so is our Empress empowered only by the Grace of our God. It is my belief as an Amarr capsuleer that the Holy Amarr Empire must do only what God commands it to do, and that Her Majesty and the Theology Council will direct the physical nation of Amarr in accordance with Divine Providence. I know of no other intentions, but I am merely a soldier. Ours is not to reason why; ours is but to do and die. Should God direct us to strike deeply at the Caldari State tomorrow, then I believe the Faithful will fight as passionately tomorrow against the State as we fight today against the Matari.


And where are these GREAT Amarr victories seems recently that your Allies in the State were the only ones doing the fighting, or is there some Serious Fighting going on with the Amarr that I have not heard about, well OTHER than your NO MERCY jokers picking on neutrals ?

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2009.12.07 21:40:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Lyn Farel on 07/12/2009 21:44:13
Edited by: Lyn Farel on 07/12/2009 21:42:35
Originally by: Vikarion
In fact, I would like to ask any and all Amarr capsuleers: do you agree or disagree with the notion that the Empire must eventually reclaim the Caldari State?


There is nothing more wrong in the Reclaiming than believing it consists to enslave every people that is not born amarrian. In spite of the recent treason from the Nefantar Tribe to their own people, the Mandate is still the living proof that they were not reclaimed by force : they fully embraced the amarrian culture. The Khanid Kingdom is another example, but different : their beliefs and their own civilization show their people is still honorable and serves the Light. At last, i do believe the State is the last example of what a is not included in the Reclaiming. They are respectable allies to the Empire and i'm always really disappointed in stubborn, conservative and clueless Holders that still think the amarrian way is the only one valuable. The Reclaiming is just a symbolic tool against the forces that bring chaos and anarchy to the galactic civilization and enlightment. What i mean by enlightment is the spiritual and well-being of the people, and the prosperity of an entire society. That is what the Mandate is still trying to achieve, that is what the Khanids have built, and that is what embodies the State. Does the prayers and all that traditionnal artifacts really count ? Do i have to mention you have your own caldari culture and follow your own rituals ? But does the amarrian ideals differ that so ? I think not. What really counts is in your soul.

Some of yours have said we do not understand you, but a lot of caldari do not understand the real meaning of the Scriptures either, and what they represent. The Scriptures are not a word of conquest, blood and mind-formating. The Scriptures are the crystallisation of an ideal, what Amarrians call the Light of God, what Caldaris call wealth, and even what Gallentes call individual prosperity. All of that is refering to the Enlighted Civilization. All of that consist of building, not destroying. The path to the utopia that all people seek in the Darkness we live in. And the Truth about themselves. We are all bond by something that is universal. And this something is being threatened by anarchist, chaotic forces that vouch to take down every bit of light that all those different cultures try to collect.

I personnally will blame every amarrian Holder that does not understand he has to seek further than the boundaries of his own tiny house and personnal interests, and embrace the unity and the prosperity of our galaxy, leading eventually to his own personnal wealth, and spiritual evolution.

To conclude with more concret words, I think a lot of people still underestimate how much the Empire has changed since the discoveries of other cultures and especially since the uprising like Heideran, or even our empress Jamyl I. You should not fear the Amarr Empire as you do, Mr Vikarion. Their will always be some narrow-minded people in the Empire that have not left their own House for their entire lives and that will claim such silly things, but they do not represent the soul of their empire. As some of your caldari people will say the same by denying the mutual benefits because of their fear of what they do not really apprehend. Please, do not lower yourself to their lack of acumen.

arry2007uk
Caldari
Super Licky Bad Ass and Cool
Posted - 2009.12.08 23:15:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Lyn Farel
There is nothing more wrong in the Reclaiming than believing it consists to enslave every people that is not born amarrian. In spite of the recent treason from the Nefantar Tribe to their own people, the Mandate is still the living proof that they were not reclaimed by force : they fully embraced the amarrian culture. The Khanid Kingdom is another example, but different : their beliefs and their own civilization show their people is still honorable and serves the Light. At last, i do believe the State is the last example of what a is not included in the Reclaiming. They are respectable allies to the Empire and i'm always really disappointed in stubborn, conservative and clueless Holders that still think the amarrian way is the only one valuable. The Reclaiming is just a symbolic tool against the forces that bring chaos and anarchy to the galactic civilization and enlightment. What i mean by enlightment is the spiritual and well-being of the people, and the prosperity of an entire society. That is what the Mandate is still trying to achieve, that is what the Khanids have built, and that is what embodies the State. Does the prayers and all that traditionnal artifacts really count ? Do i have to mention you have your own caldari culture and follow your own rituals ? But does the amarrian ideals differ that so ? I think not. What really counts is in your soul.

Some of yours have said we do not understand you, but a lot of caldari do not understand the real meaning of the Scriptures either, and what they represent. The Scriptures are not a word of conquest, blood and mind-formating. The Scriptures are the crystallisation of an ideal, what Amarrians call the Light of God, what Caldaris call wealth, and even what Gallentes call individual prosperity. All of that is refering to the Enlighted Civilization. All of that consist of building, not destroying. The path to the utopia that all people seek in the Darkness we live in. And the Truth about themselves. We are all bond by something that is universal. And this something is being threatened by anarchist, chaotic forces that vouch to take down every bit of light that all those different cultures try to collect.

I personnally will blame every amarrian Holder that does not understand he has to seek further than the boundaries of his own tiny house and personnal interests, and embrace the unity and the prosperity of our galaxy, leading eventually to his own personnal wealth, and spiritual evolution.

To conclude with more concret words, I think a lot of people still underestimate how much the Empire has changed since the discoveries of other cultures and especially since the uprising like Heideran, or even our empress Jamyl I. You should not fear the Amarr Empire as you do, Mr Vikarion. Their will always be some narrow-minded people in the Empire that have not left their own House for their entire lives and that will claim such silly things, but they do not represent the soul of their empire. As some of your caldari people will say the same by denying the mutual benefits because of their fear of what they do not really apprehend. Please, do not lower yourself to their lack of acumen.


I donít agree with every point youíve made but I admire that you have chosen to emphasize individualization rather than generalization of the free people of New Eden. As a Caldari tradesman; I loyally serve my corporation with my head held high Ė as for those who donít; though I do not support them neither do I condemn them. Can the Amarr say the same with their ideals? As an entity, no but many individuals do. So with this in mind, I believe Vikarion has summed up the situation with a degree of finesse.

Gottii
Minmatar
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.12.08 23:34:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Gottii on 09/12/2009 00:05:44
To point to scripture and religion as the sole reason, or even the main reason, the Empire will or will not end up attacking the State is folly.

As a theocracy, the Empire's scriptures and religious traditions are part and parcel with its economics, culture and politics. Its those economic, cultural and political realities that drive the Empire's policies. In that they are no different from any other power. The religious scriptures and traditions merely provides the pretext.

The Empire enslaves and conquers not just because of its religion, but because its society and culture can not survive otherwise. Their entire society is predicated on it, and is ill-prepared to co-exist with anyone for long on an equal footing. Culturally their mind view couldn't tolerate it, and economically they counldn't keep up. When the Empire attacks the State, it will do so because it feels it must.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2009.12.09 00:03:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Vikarion
First, the Gallente threat has not been neutralized, but enhanced. The election of President Roden is a symbol of the will of the Gallente people to fight on. Moreover, it is a symbol of a continued radicalization of their cause, similar to the Duvalle presidency. The Gallente will not rest until the State is smashed, the corporate leaders and managers executed for their crimes against "humanity", and every State citizen a prisoner of war in her own home. And those are the merciful ones. Others, many others, call for the extermination of our race in its entirety. As one can see from the postings of such as General Soter and Alidaar, we lie outside of what they consider "humanity".


You do realize, there are Federal citizens that are against the war? And, of course, our enemy is the State Protectorate and the Caldari Providence Directorate, not the Caldari people.

Congratulations in setting a new example of "pride comes before a fall". The people of Covryn are rejoicing as they are returned to democratic rule.

Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2009.12.09 00:09:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Gottii
To point to scripture and religion as the sole reason, or even the main reason, the Empire will or will not end up attacking the State is folly.

As a theocracy, the Empire's scriptures and religious traditions are part and parcel with its economics, culture and politics. Its those economic, cultural and political realities that drive the Empire's policies. In that they are no different from any other power. The religious scriptures and traditions merely provides the pretext.


The Faith is a part of the Empire's (And the Amarr Territories in general) policy in the way that the first spark is part of a fire. It creates, and is not dictated by.

Quote:
The Empire enslaves and conquers not just because of its religion, but because its society and culture can not survive otherwise. Their entire society is predicated on it, and is ill-prepared to co-exist with anyone for long on an equal footing. Culturally their mind view couldn't tolerate it, and economically they counldn't keep up. When the Empire attacks the State, it will do so because it will not be able to survive otherwise.


Mind explaining how the entire existence of the Empire is based upon waging war? The Amarr Territories are based upon Reclaiming, but that can be accomplished through both peace and war.

As the State are our allies, it is ethically sound to Reclaim them with peace.

As the State can destroy us in war, it is practically sound to Reclaim them with peace.

Besides the fact you don't like the Amarr, do you have any reasons to back up your claims?

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.09 00:17:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
You do realize, there are Federal citizens that are against the war? And, of course, our enemy is the State Protectorate and the Caldari Providence Directorate, not the Caldari people.

Congratulations in setting a new example of "pride comes before a fall". The people of Covryn are rejoicing as they are returned to democratic rule.


Yes, and the majority of the people rejected those who want peace.

The Gallente people elected a man whose campaign platform includes genocide. Who advocates the capture and domination of our homeworld. Who, as Gallente before him, desires to control and dictate terms to our corporations.

The enemy of the Gallente Federation is the State and its population, for we reject your values, your ideals, and everything you would force upon us. And we would rather die than accept them.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2009.12.09 00:23:00 - [30]
 

And here you are, your State imposing its values and ideals on a people that want nothing to do with your corporate machine. Hypocrisy much?

There won't be much genocide on Caldari Prime, in fact, since it's a majority Gallente population, ever since the Caldari evacuated it.


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