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Tuscun Nebular
Posted - 2009.12.06 19:47:00 - [1]
 

CCP, I know I'm probably wasting my time here, but I just wanted to ask anyway. I was watching some vids on you tube and I just don't understand the concept of your definition in regard to PVP.

Here's a guy in a video mining in an area which is considered unsafe for his level, (short version) and is ship blown up. He tried to explain to the pirates that he's there not to fight but to make more money mining, he's told oh well too bad, and BAM! The attitude of the aggressors, Oh well too bad, he didn't belong there in the first place. Ha! Ha! Some other videos show the same thing.

Now, my brother is 1/3 owner in an Internet cafe that has 70 computers in a very busy neighborhood in Brooklyn, New York. I was visiting my family there for the Thanksgiving holiday. While visiting my brother at the cafe, A conversation came up after I mentioned to some players that I was playing Eve for almost 2 months. I found that in my brother's cafe, he doesn't have Eve Online on their computers because there's not a demand for this particular game.

While conversing with some other player's of mmo games, I was told that they have in fact tried to play Eve, but discontinued the game because of and they used words like "frustrating" Because of the game is "hard to learn" and for the most part they have felt that eve online was a "waste of time" " with no up front or immediate gratifications"

Then we came to the pvp topic in regard to Eve Online, they and I all agree that the playing field isn't even when it comes not only to pvp, but to new players in general. Shouldn't pvp be exactly that? What if a player doesn't want to become involved in pvp action? Why should a player who just started out in the game mining with one little ship have his ore stolen while transporting a load to a station? Why are seasoned players able to extort new players? (Give me isk or I'll destroy your ship) Why does a non willing pvp player have to answer to another player should be ashamed of calling himself a gamer because he destroys a noobs ship. Why are seasoned players who obviously out gun a noobs ship by a million to one able to destroy that ship for no reason? It takes months to learn Eve online, and obtain the mass amount of isk to buy not only the ship, but all of the other required items to run that ship.

Wouldn't it make sense to level the playing field a little? If pvp is to remain as is, why not at least let a new players get to a certain level, or enable that new player to obtain a certain status and equipment equivalent to another more seasoned player, so the noob doesn't lose all that he/she's worked for in seconds? Why can't a player warp to a location for space exploration, or maybe to view a battle without getting blown to bits? Let's see just how tough those bully's are when the noobs are able defend themselves! Let's see if those tough guys laugh in videos like seen on you tube when the playing field is leveled!

There is a consensus out in the gaming world (Like in my brother's cafe) as well as with some of the players of Eve Online that the playing filed isn't fair to all players. Why does eve online have a "dishearten" word of mouth among players who stop playing Eve? Why can't CCP make it so that they have millions of subscribers like in other mmos? Heck even within the fan fest one of your ccp reps stated that Eve isn't for everyone. Well, why not make it for everyone to enjoy? Why not take a player's vote, and let the chips fall? I and other players believe that eve is a good game, (I have 3 payee accounts and also subscribe to Eon's yearly subscription, shows how much I like this game) and Eve has the potential to be a great game. Make the game less frustrating, and watch how many people join.

Gun Gal
Posted - 2009.12.06 19:55:00 - [2]
 

* inappropriate text removed - CCP Ildoge
EVE is not for you.

* inappropriate text removed - CCP Ildoge




Ticarus Hellbrandt
Posted - 2009.12.06 19:55:00 - [3]
 

gag stop posting

Yatooooroooooo
Posted - 2009.12.06 19:56:00 - [4]
 

Because EVE and PVP in EVE is not a sport with two even teams like in your mainstream gaming poo. This is war.

Bodrul
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.12.06 19:56:00 - [5]
 

hope you got your flame proof extremities on
your gonna get Flamed

Its Eve culture to do so :)





Jaya
Caldari
Brothers At Arms
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.12.06 19:58:00 - [6]
 

go play Wow, i think that game is more your speed, pvp is "safe" you dont have to worry about being intelligent

Yatooooroooooo
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:02:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Why can't CCP make it so that they have millions of subscribers like in other mmos?


Also, isn't WoW pretty much the only MMO with millions of subscribers?

AFAIK Eve is doing fine financially.

Excalibus
Caldari
Oblivion.
Anarchy.
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:04:00 - [8]
 

Erm, must have missed your point, i've played for 5 years, and guess wat, I started out as a noob. CCP have given noobs alot more than when i started, you have skills at lvl 5 already, i had none of that. yet im still about.

Noobs should not venture into low sec unless they have support or the skills to know wat to do, monitor local chat for example, look for signs of danger. I had to learn these important lessons, so I don't see why people like yourself want it made too easy?


Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:04:00 - [9]
 

"go play wow blahblahblah" Rolling Eyes

Fire Watch
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:04:00 - [10]
 

Maybe EVE isn't for you Rolling Eyes

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:05:00 - [11]
 

Thousands of people mine in 0.0 every single day. Just saying.


FakeEdit: Wait you weren't by any chance the guy who jumped a T2-rigged hulk in to EC-P8R this morning were you?

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:14:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Yatooooroooooo
Because EVE and PVP in EVE is not a sport with two even teams like in your mainstream gaming poo. This is war.



exactly.

this is no duel with pistols at 10 paces, nor a happy-go-by paintball match.

it's war out there, war for resources, war for fear, war for making your life miserable for any reason or no reason at all.

We could care less about what you were doing or for how long you were playing or whatever you were doing before you got blown'd up. This is a free for all and you're no more than a pothole in this road.

bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:19:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
an Internet cafe that has 70 computers in a very busy neighborhood in Brooklyn, New York.


Thats a weak troll tbh as we all know that the fine people of Brooklyn don`t play silly videogames.

http://hulkhatetimetravel.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/500x333_wu-tang.jpg

Hegbard
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:22:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Why can't CCP make it so that they have millions of subscribers like in other mmos?


Please provide a list of games that have more subscribers than EVE.

XSarah
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:23:00 - [15]
 

EVE is for smart people and that excludes everyone who hangs out in NY cybercafe, pretty much.

Thanks for stopping by though.

muahahaha

Bodrul
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:28:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
an Internet cafe that has 70 computers in a very busy neighborhood in Brooklyn, New York.


Thats a weak troll tbh as we all know that the fine people of Brooklyn don`t play silly videogames.

http://hulkhatetimetravel.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/500x333_wu-tang.jpg


think they are to busy being banged up to play,



Bhattran
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Well, why not make it for everyone to enjoy? Why not take a player's vote, and let the chips fall? I and other players believe that eve is a good game, (I have 3 payee accounts and also subscribe to Eon's yearly subscription, shows how much I like this game) and Eve has the potential to be a great game. Make the game less frustrating, and watch how many people join.


Because if I wanted to play video games with kids I'd hang out at school yards. At least here I can feel reasonably 'safe' knowing most players don't go to school because the law says they have to, but because they choose to do so.

I avoided most mmo's for one reason, other people, mainly people (often kids) that act like idiots, those people are still everywhere but I've found a lot less of them in EVE than any of the other MMO's I've played or tried.

Tbear
Cave Bear Mining
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:33:00 - [18]
 

Eve is a sandbox and not a nursery. You make of it what you will, by your own choices. Nothing in Eve is easy except for dying.

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:42:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 06/12/2009 20:49:27

McDonalds has millions of customers but I don't go there if I want a nice steak. Why do you think the EVE players are in EVE and not WOW?

The MMORPG's that have tried to emulates WOW and failed are numerous and there is a reason for that. There are two types of player:

1. Gamers - these want a challenge. EVE gives that but does not try and be everything to everyone. That's not possible or desirable. If it becomes popularised by dumbing down it will die very fast. CCP know that. WOW itself has changed even in the last year to a game I do not recognise because of these non gamers crowding in. Not one of my old friends plays it any more. It's a victim of the marketing department where everyone must be a winner, do you really want a game like that? That's not a game at all. It's as much fun as dressing up my own dolly.

2. Non Gamers - these do not want a challenge and want access to everything everyone else has (Blizz has removed or made irrelevant all unique class abilities and game mechanics to achieve this). Their motives to play are alien to many of us (gear, mounts, gimmicks, fluff, simple game mechanics, easy access to all content and no consequences to your actions) They play WOW or one of its clones. Nothing wrong with that but it's not the market EVE is aimed for. Its also not the sort of player I wish to associate with any more in an on line game which is why I no longer play WOW.

I think EVE PVP sucks as well but not because its brutal, I just think its boring being in a blob or camp and griefing someone else is the ultimate in tedium for me. But many like that so good for them.

Try not to judge others by your standards, realise many people play games for different reasons and to try and homogeneous everyone into one type of player (like a WOW player) is ignorant and patronising.




Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:45:00 - [20]
 

Two on one day? I must say you have potential: 6/10

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:48:00 - [21]
 

Funny thing: there are few games where the play field is as level as it is in EVE. If the other guy can do something, then so can you – it's just up to you to do it. There is nothing the other guy can do that means you can't beat him – you just have to figure out how.

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:50:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Funny thing: there are few games where the play field is as level as it is in EVE. If the other guy can do something, then so can you it's just up to you to do it. There is nothing the other guy can do that means you can't beat him you just have to figure out how.


Yep, this is the only game I have every played ultra casually and I still get a lot done.

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:52:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Gun Gal
* inappropriate text removed - CCP Ildoge
EVE is not for you.

* inappropriate text removed - CCP Ildoge






This sums up my experience, my opinions and what I consider an appropiate response to your insulting trollspeak.

People that get tired of games and go to new games asking the same things of the old games in the new ones only to destroy them and them move on to the next remind me of filthy carrion eating necrotic zombie parasites.

You and your ideas sir are better off in a new game, may I suggest you

GBTWOW?

WoW is that way ------------->
<------------- Hello Kitty Online is that way

Thank you very much.

If eve ever began catering to the annoying whines of exWoWites we would all be staring at the SORRY GAME IS SHUTTING DOWN/No longer exists screen like Tabula Rasa or Matrix Online.

Your delusions of supposed economic bounties coming from your brothers Serpentis/Guristas mafia owned money laundering cybercafes wich are the only option to save CCP from utter Bankruptcy or else Azeroth wielding Paladins will cast AOEs of Doom upon us all are truly the product of too many Combat Boosters gone wrong resold by famished minmatar flesh slaves ... Dont do Drugs and dont be like Joe man.

Maybe you should try playing Duke Nukem Forever.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.12.06 20:54:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Yatooooroooooo
Because EVE and PVP in EVE is not a sport with two even teams like in your mainstream gaming poo. This is war.



exactly.

this is no duel with pistols at 10 paces, nor a happy-go-by paintball match.

it's war out there, war for resources, war for fear, war for making your life miserable for any reason or no reason at all.

We could care less about what you were doing or for how long you were playing or whatever you were doing before you got blown'd up. This is a free for all and you're no more than a pothole in this road.
I read this with Dennis Hopper's voice in my mind. Surprised

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.12.06 21:01:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: NightmareX on 06/12/2009 21:08:31
Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Why can't CCP make it so that they have millions of subscribers like in other mmos?

Because quality over quantity. And thank god that EVE is quality over quantity.

Having 10-14 years old kids farting around in EVE crying all the time here. NO THANKS.

And how many players do you play with in WoW?, 8-10k max per server?. So what you do in Wow, doesn't mean much to many.

But what i do in EVE can mean ALOT to over 300k subscribers.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.12.06 21:07:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Zeba on 06/12/2009 21:07:31
Originally by: NightmareX
Having 10-14 years old kids farting around in EVE crying all the time here. NO THANKS.
So I guess all the 24-50 years old kids farting around in EVE crying all the time here is ok then? Very Happy

Hardiel Da'le'mei
Posted - 2009.12.06 21:09:00 - [27]
 


PVP is never going to be balanced in a game that has fleets, bigger ships, larger guns etc.

You do know that a frigate can take a battleship don't you? If they know what they are doing the battleship can't touch them.

What your saying is you want a dreadnaught to be balanced with a mining ship? Doesn't work like that sorry mate :)

The problem with EVE is the steep learning curve, no super quick gratification and NOT the difference between a 5 year character and a 1 month character.

Tell me any game where you can jump into the end game right away, and I'll show you that game isn't worth playing.

I know people that have been playnig for 5 years and they are only doing exploring and mining still, yeah they've moved from high sec to 0.0, but they are still doing what they were doing


NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.12.06 21:10:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Zeba
Edited by: Zeba on 06/12/2009 21:07:31
Originally by: NightmareX
Having 10-14 years old kids farting around in EVE crying all the time here. NO THANKS.
So I guess all the 24-50 years old kids farting around in EVE crying all the time here is ok then? Very Happy

Yeah, it's at least better than the 10-14 years old kids crying. If you know what i meanVery Happy.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.12.06 21:12:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: NightmareX
Yeah, it's at least better than the 10-14 years old kids crying. If you know what i meanVery Happy.
Indeed. A grown mans tears are faaaar moar nourishing. Twisted Evil

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.12.06 21:18:00 - [30]
 

You know, after playing EVE, I have hard time understanding non-EVE players' definitions of "PvP".

I played Aion for a while and people seem to think that only fair, consensual fights are "PvP". Anything unfair or nonconsensual is just "ganking". The factions are supposed to be at war, yet most players seem to prefer small fights between groups of equal level and equal numbers.

If I wanted that sort of "PvP", I'd either play Guild Wars, which does the arena-style PvP better than any other MMO I've played, or I'd play a FPS like TF2, which has the best team-based gameplay of any FPS I've played.

I love EVE's PvP. You can have "real" (in-game) wars in EVE, where corps or alliances do their best to completely dominate their opponents, destroy their infrastructure, and disrupt their normal activities instead of only fighting when it's fair.

I think a large part of it is also that there are no PvP "rewards" per se like in Aion where you get Abyss points or WAR, where you get renown. Skills are trained at a constant rate no matter what you're doing, and thus PvP is done becuase it's fun and to help secure territory and other goals.

My point is, I like PvP for a purpose. Fighting a war over territory is fun for me, for instance. Fighting just because I'm blue and the other guy is red and I get points for it is boring in MMOs. To me, the benefit of playing a game with thousands of simultaneous players is that real-world mechanics like politics, wars and economics arise. This is what makes EVE a sandbox, while other MMOs are virtual theme-parks with carefully crafted experiences designed to be fun and fair to all involved.

EVE is not and never will be for everyone. Most MMO players are more casual and prefer the carefully designed, crafted experience of the virtual theme-park. There are a lot, however, that prefer a big PvP (I mean that in the broad sense of any player competition) sandbox.

A lot of people just don't "get" EVE. But once you "get" it, I've found it's hard to enjoy other MMOs. They seems shallow in comparison.


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