open All Channels
seplocked Intergalactic Summit
blankseplocked Open question, to the representatives of CVA
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Chell Charon
Posted - 2009.12.02 16:59:00 - [1]
 

Since nobody else is stepping up, I might as well get things going.

What is the current status between you and No.Mercy?

Is one Garst Tyrell still welcome in your territories?

Will you be publicly condemning the raiding [and the attempted extortion] of a neutral corporation within Amarr Empire by a member of 24th crusade?

Or is it official CVA policy that if it doesn't happen within your borders it is no concern of yours?

And as to the question of what concern is this of mine. The answer has two parts:

1. If you do condemn such action and proclaim people and corporations so doing as non wanted persons in your territories, it may curb future behaviour of this kind from members of 24th.

2. If on the other hand corporations guilty of raiding may still access your territory as welcomed visitors, 24th may just be receiving a new influx of recruits. Though these recruits may end up spending more time in Amarr highsec than in low sec shooting at members of TLF, but at least they will be warring and defending Amarr Empire, right?

I am looking forward to your reply.

Don't worry, I will get to Garst in time. [Unless he decides to offer compensations and apologies to the wrongfully accused Quepec Power]

Grr
Amarr
Imperial Retirement Home
Posted - 2009.12.02 21:04:00 - [2]
 

At this time Garst Tyrell and his corp are welcome in our territories.

We do not conduct diplomacy like this on public forums. If you wish to discuss the matter further visit our channel "CVA-Diplo"

If you wish to know more about our policies and answer some of your questions yourself our rules are stated clearly here:

http://www.cva-eve.org/


Chell Charon
Posted - 2009.12.02 23:00:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Chell Charon on 02/12/2009 23:04:28
I am sorry, but as the matter is public, I feel it should be handled publicly. I do hope you are not seriously suggesting that any and all intrested on the matter inquire after it individually? -Sadly I doubt all would even believe that they have received the same answers.

Besides, I have a fair inkling that if I am not on your KOS list yet, there would really not be too many ways to avoid ending up there in the future. So I might as well be "stupid" and see if you follow your own rules. -If yes, I'll just have to accept it and show some respect for it. If no, well mayhaps it'll save someone from thinking you do.

But since you were kind enough to suggest I enlighten myself on the matter and even provided pertinent information...

I quote:

"Greater Providence is open for transit, commerce, faction bounty hunting and asteroid mining to all pilots, corporations, and alliances who obey the law"

This seems clear, anyone failing to uphold your rules is not welcome.

"No pilot, corporation or alliance shall extort, blackmail or give ransoms "

Also, seems clear, I bulked up the pertinent parts.

"Corporations shall be held accountable for the actions of their pilots and Alliances shall be held accountable for the actions of their corporationst"

Allright, it is your rule and also seems clear.

"CONCORD sanctioned wars shall not release a pilot, corporation or alliance from adherence to the law "

Propably not too liked one, but seems clear too.

Hmm.... Having trouble with your computer systems? Your KOS list appears unavailable at this time.

Though seeing it at this time would propably make no difference.. It may have changed.

So let's see, Garst Tyrell attacked QP and demanded to be paid to call of the WarDec.[Extortion,blackmail]

Even PIE inc. could not in their investigation [Which can hardly be accused of favoring the accused party of QP] Find evidence to support the case that QP would have been in any dealings with the opposing force. -In part stemming from the fact that Garst Tyrell failed to provide such evidence, when requested.

as member of NO.MERCY (leader)I suppose your rules would state them as a corporation to be accountable.

Now, as some who stood up for Tyrell -Even if he himself has so far failed to do so- suggested it indeed was a CONCORD sanctioned war. Luckily your rules state this to be of no defence.

You have just stated that at this time they are still welcomed [Both Corporation and Man]
So one has to ask:

1.Was Quebec Power on your KOS list when it was attacked?
1.A. If yes, is the attempted blackmail of approved towards targets on your KOS list? [I could find no mention]
1.B. If yes, why was a professed neutral corporation on your KOS list when they were in business in Amar Highsec?

2. If no, why are you welcoming a person and corporation responcible of these acts. That are against your own rules. [Not mine. 24th's. CONCORDS. No mans, Empires, Factions or anyone elses, but your own.]

Only answer so far has been "It was not reported", despite the fact that this media has screamed it, PIE inc. has investigated it... And you have had a chance to read it all, or as I was adviced, to do so now.

I am actually shocked that I even have to attempt to squeeze the answer out of you.

Or are you perhaps of the Opinion that Garst Tyrell has caused no harm to your Empire? Indeed that would be a good stance to take, I think I have mentioned elsewhere, that I'm certain I can find a few persons willing to help those members of the 24th who want to follow in his footsteps on this one.

Or as the last option, do the rules not apply to all?

I find it to be a fun fact that your information pages clearly state that calling you out this way will get you to tell your side of the story... Or is that one of those rules/statements you'll gloss over when it would mean doing something you don't like?

For finale: Would QP have broken your rules if they had paid Garst? [Ransom]

*cleaned up

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2009.12.02 23:07:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Lucius Vindictus on 02/12/2009 23:14:10
With respect, Chell Charon, what you feel is not going to dictate how CVA conducts it's diplomacy.

The IGS is the only place in the cluster where public spectacles are apparently the "normal" way to conduct "politics". Personally I find this far from normal, to be honest.

The admiral politely pointed you to the appropriate channel, and I suggest that you go there in search of answers.

Chell Charon
Posted - 2009.12.02 23:20:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
Edited by: Lucius Vindictus on 02/12/2009 23:08:18
With respect, Chell Charon, what you think is not going to dictate how CVA conducts it's diplomacy.

The IGS is the only place in the cluster where public spectacles are apparently the "normal" way to conduct "politics".


Propably true, what I think may indeed wash like a water of ducks back on them.

Publicity actually is a part of these "politics" you speak of, diplomacy may require silence on matters, but did anyone really think CVA was not going to get called out on this? Publicly.

However they themselves state on their own information pages that calling them out here, will get you their side of the story. I wait with anticipation. -Though I have been advised not to hold my breath.

Besides it is not as if I were ruining some good reputation [of my own].

Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2009.12.02 23:49:00 - [6]
 

So apparently Mr. Charon is my Individualist doppelganger. Or I'm his Authoritarian doppelganger. I suppose it depends on whether you're counting the 'original' to be the one who first got their license or the one who first started buggering around the IGS.

Chell Charon
Posted - 2009.12.03 00:18:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Jakiin
So apparently Mr. Charon is my Individualist doppelganger. Or I'm his Authoritarian doppelganger. I suppose it depends on whether you're counting the 'original' to be the one who first got their license or the one who first started buggering around the IGS.


Let us not excamine that any closer? [Though I must admit Khanid kingdom to be a personal favorite as Amar aligned teritories go]

To the matter
While I was a feeling like a "good" little Minmatar I actually went to the channel, seems there are were no senior diplomats present.

I wonder what are the requirements for a senior diplomat? Person I was discussing with (Unless it was just an automated message, you never know) according to information actually had over 5 months on their lisence.

Reading out a prepared statement shouldn't be that much of a challenge. -Then again if CVA would make prepapered statements... We would have propably read a public one allready.

So I told them to mail me or visit here. And also stated I'd drop the matter for a day.
Just so you know, my day ends when I go to sleep and begins when I wake up.

But I'll stop picking this bone for a few moments.

Bashiri
No.Mercy
Merciless.
Posted - 2009.12.03 04:56:00 - [8]
 

Another bloody hi it's a sf alt go troll in CAOD for once

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2009.12.03 05:13:00 - [9]
 

*shrugs*

Folks can 'call out' CVA all they want.

I'm sure it's simply devastating.

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2009.12.03 06:50:00 - [10]
 

The Minmatar rebels have always hidden behind "neutral" corporations. They know that if there supporters were to declare themselves publicly then the full might of Imperial fury would fall upon them and refine them in the titanic heat and flame of God's righteous anger. It is also the habit of the Star Fraction to engage agent agent provocateur and false fronts to give legitimacy to their insane quest to destroy God's rightful order so that they may engage in the perversities of their hearts.

Some times the boundary of man's law needs to be transgressed so that God's law may be upheld.

A Manu Dei et Tet Rimon.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2009.12.03 08:19:00 - [11]
 

So this is what you had in mind when you were reserving your right to engage in psychological warfare, pilot.

Hm.

Well, that's interesting. I'll be looking forward to seeing whether your claim to neutrality is still taken seriously at the end. If you're not already aware, this one is something of a tar trap: anyone who cares tends to come across as sharply and personally partisan, whether they really are or not.

Good hunting, pilot.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.03 09:25:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Chell Charon
I am sorry, but as the matter is public, I feel it should be handled publicly.


Merdaneth makes a note in his database

Chell Charon
- likely anarchist supporter
- likely hypocrite
- Test: make a diplomatic matter of a non-loyalist (preferable anarchist) public and await his response.

Chell Charon
Posted - 2009.12.03 11:47:00 - [13]
 

Well seems some people don't know well enough to let a sleeping dog be.

As distasteful it is to me to actually admit to having been able to deciphere these grunts that could almost [Well nearly almost] be interpreted as signs of an emerging intelligence...

I said I'd give CVA a day, I did not say you glaring wastes of perfectly good carbohydrates would be any safer from my mockery should your apparent lack of comprehension -Of anything really.- Raise it's ugly head.

So as not discriminate against those of limited abilities, I will give you a few answers.

Bashiri, congratulations: Were you homeschooled by the Goons or Hydra Allice? I will not try and speak for either, but atleast you seem to be picking up the appropriate speech mannerisms. [And thank you for showing why CAOD might not be such a good place at this time]

Graelyn, Well done! Two whole sentences and a shrug? Superb, though Bashiri did set my level of expectations astoundingly low. -So maybe it is not so much that you did well, as it is a matter of Bashiri doing even worse.

Bashiri and Graelyn, I am certain you both are very formidable pilots in your ownright and well deserve respect for this fact. How do I know this? -Your corporations certainly aren't keeping you around for your razor sharp wits and rhetorical skills.

TheRaptor, thank you for telling me that Star Fraction uses Agents Provocateur.

I truly had not noticed untill you informed me of it. And they indeed have people speak for SF when they are not members of it?!? You mean a bit like when I say Garst Tyrell and No.Mercy, and get totally different people from different corporations?

Or maybe, how when I say CVA. -I get the three stooges?

Now you three clearly haven't learned anything about baseless accusations and the fact that every now and then they come back to bite you. But why don't each and everyone of you three go and find someone within your respective corporations, who actually knows how to read [I know suggesting that there'd be anyone with investigative talents within No.Mercy to be utterly futile].

You have someone who can read with you now? Good, now why don't you ask them to read down the list of threads in this media till you come across something that seems familiar. Excellent, well done boys. There indeed you can read the name of my corporation. and a funny word. "Introducing" that means I will telling about my corporation in there.

Why don't you read that, or have it read for you... And then, you can go on and read my corporation bio. After that, take some time and come over here again with complete sentences and something more than baseless accusations. Dismissed.

-Just for the record, anyone accusing me of not being my own man, better get bloody well and ready for me to rip them a new one. Prove your claims or they are nothing more than slander and a target for mockery.

Good day, miss Jenneth. Yes I noticed the cry "SF" seems to be quick to peoples lips here [as it were when QP matter was under scrutiny]. Well perhaps I will be able to discourage the belief that screaming "SF!" disposes the uncomfortable questions and show that indeed Star Fraction holds no monopoly on questions.

I'll even assure you that I did not plan this, but if Amarrian organisations profess to uphold Rules & Regulations, going as far as calling them laws. They really shouldn't be suprised that when their actions are perceived as contradicting those stated laws, they get called on it.

-I am shocked that CVA doesn't seem to have a responce ready for this. Has SF really been letting them of that easily? Or perhaps they feel the questions themselves become unvalid if someone claimed to be SF spokesperson voices them out?

Thank you for the well wishes.

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2009.12.03 13:41:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Graelyn on 03/12/2009 13:46:09

Loud, ignorant rookies don't get much in the way of retort, it turns out. Odd, eh?

Find a way to cope. (I recommend more, longer, angrier messages)

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2009.12.03 14:34:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Chell Charon

TheRaptor, thank you for telling me that Star Fraction uses Agents Provocateur.

I truly had not noticed until you informed me of it. And they indeed have people speak for SF when they are not members of it?!?


Get a clue rook. I was flying for Star Fraction before they let you out of whatever you minmatars think passes for basic schooling. I flew with them, I have fought them, I KNOW them. Everyone who isn't a clueless rook knows what passes for "honor" and "decency" amongst Fractionist and terrorist alike. Next some rook will be telling me that the Guiding Hand Social Club is just a rumor.

But with the way you talk rook you should join them. They are always looking for fresh meat big on words and less well equipped else where....

Invelious
Amarr
Adamant Edge
Posted - 2009.12.03 14:44:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Graelyn
Edited by: Graelyn on 03/12/2009 13:46:09

Loud, ignorant rookies don't get much in the way of retort, it turns out. Odd, eh?

Find a way to cope. (I recommend more, longer, angrier messages)


^^^ This. Its amazing when someone as irrelevant as this expects the world to bend to his will.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.12.03 15:54:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/12/2009 15:55:06

Originally by: Chell Charon

-I am shocked that CVA doesn't seem to have a response ready for this. Has SF really been letting them of that easily? Or perhaps they feel the questions themselves become unvalid if someone claimed to be SF spokesperson voices them out?


We've been challenging the CVA on their institutional hypocrisy and the inequities of their crypto-NRDS / standings enclosurism in Providence for years, but the arguments tend to break down at the point they are confronted with a simple question and like a Rodj-Blake genus incontintent evasion-squid they panic and fill the thread with inky imprecations against all and sundry.

For example:

On the CVA's own PR board they list their principles mission...

Enforce Amarrian law and bring an end to piracy in the Empire
Increase economic development and prosperity
Stabalize and strengthen space to futher the Amarr empires territorial reclamation


Its pretty clear. Enforce Amarrian law and end piracy in the empire. Increase economical development and prosperity.

Now we have an example in this thread of the CVA PR mouthpiece Grr telling us:

"At this time Garst Tyrell and his corp are welcome in our territories."


So here we are.

Either CVA are telling us that Garst Tyrell is not a pirate and didn't wardec Quebec Power with the intent of stealing their Towers and ransoming with menaces.

Or that they don't consider ransoming neutral industrial corps in the Empire as "piracy".

Or they don't live up to their own printed standards on their mission statement.


***

Either which way it portrays a deceitful ethically-bankrupt organization that simply doesn't care about Amarrians committing acts of piracy in the Amarrian Empire.

From the responses of other Amarrians and Amarrian-patsies here then I'd have to say that the CVA isn't at much risk of losing their support for this. But then we (in the Star Fraction) have always said that the CVA's reputation for "freespace" has been a fiction since day one. It is a "free haven" for Amarrian nationalists to commit acts of piracy and be protected from retribution though.

Because if (for example) Quebec Power were to want to counter attack No.Mercy in repayment for Garst's aggression and attacked No.Mercy ships in Providence then they (not Garst) would be declared pirate -10 KOS by the CVA diplomats.

All in all the whole business has been an object lesson in the hypocrisy and deceit of the Amarrian bloc and as such has been very useful.


Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.03 15:59:00 - [18]
 

Or, instead of all that talk of hypocrisy you could just actually read the entire CVA statement.

Quote:
We do not conduct diplomacy like this on public forums. If you wish to discuss the matter further visit our channel "CVA-Diplo"


Are you going to be showing up there with your evidence in private, or just continue to babble on and in so doing prove that your real agenda is a slander campaign?

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2009.12.03 16:03:00 - [19]
 

CONCORD also fight piracy and yet war decs are CONCORD sanctioned. By Jades argument CONCORD are as guilty of harboring pirates as CVA. Also everyone knows Jade that you are so good at what you do that finding you with your hand in the jar is nigh on impossible. I know for a fact that you have utilised "neutral" corporations in such a manner in the past, and when I was in the Aegis Militia we engaged several such "neutral" corporations.

Criminals and deviants shelter in the dark for they would be burned alive in the illumination of God's Holy Light.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.12.03 16:14:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/12/2009 16:13:59

Originally by: theRaptor

Get a clue rook. I was flying for Star Fraction before they let you out of whatever you minmatars think passes for basic schooling. I flew with them, I have fought them, I KNOW them. Everyone who isn't a clueless rook knows what passes for "honor" and "decency" amongst Fractionist and terrorist alike. Next some rook will be telling me that the Guiding Hand Social Club is just a rumor. But with the way you talk rook you should join them. They are always looking for fresh meat big on words and less well equipped else where....


I think its fair to remind the listener at this point that we do have a history with "theRaptor". Its also appropriate to point out that we have parted company twice in our respective history.

1st time because he failed to meet our activity standards, 2nd time because he fell well short of our communications standards in public debate.

From the company of free captains this man fell in with Amarrian nationalists and became enamoured with their religion and as we know from past history there is no zealot quite so frothing as a convert.

The SF directorate never considered this man met our standards for combat activity (hence saying he "flew" with us is something of a reach). And since he was ultimately removed from the roster for failing our communication standards I think its also dishonest for him to claim any real knowledge of our "honour" or "decency".

So to "theRaptor" I have to say:

You were unable to represent yourself appropriately as a free captain within the Star Fraction. Do not think to claim you know anything of our standards and principles from the lapsed Amarrian zealot benches either.

As a rule I like to think the best of capsuleers returning to activity after a sustained period of planetside stasis but I have to say to you now ... if you have returned to join the ranks of our IGS detractors you will find little fulfilment and few genuine friends. There is no kinship amongst a howling mob of religious fruitcakes and that is ultimately what you lacked.

But take my advise or don't. It is your choice.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.12.03 16:25:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/12/2009 16:27:05

Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Or, instead of all that talk of hypocrisy you could just actually read the entire CVA statement.

Quote:
We do not conduct diplomacy like this on public forums. If you wish to discuss the matter further visit our channel "CVA-Diplo"


Are you going to be showing up there with your evidence in private, or just continue to babble on and in so doing prove that your real agenda is a slander campaign?


I believe the reason the CVA like to discuss such things in private is because they are afraid of having a public spotlight turned on their hypocrisy and deceit Gaven Lok'ri. I do not believe they are capable of conducting honest diplomacy in any way shape or form. It is in the Amarrian Nationalist psyche to lie and cheat and steal what is not yours. The reality of this situation is simply that Garst Tyrell as an Amarrian Nationalist is "above" the CVA's law and can do what he pleases and use Providence as a safe haven afterwards.

It is not my responsibility to try to hide this implication behind a wall of diplomatic fiction. Garst Tyrell and No.Mercy have already fallen short of the standards of your own corporation. He has been barred from the shortlist for the PIE Inc. "amarrian of the year" for his acts of piracy and ransoming against a neutral industrial alliance in Amarrian hisec.

He has been challenged by PIE to present evidence of the connections he alleged to excuse his action and failed to present such things.

All this is now a matter of public record.

And yet still CVA will not act and welcome this bloody-handed brigand to Providence with open arms all the while threatening any of his enemies with -10KOS if they were to attack him there?

This is a beautiful demonstration of the hypocrisy of standings-enclosurism wrapped in the cod-NRDS fallacy of Providence.

If the CVA wish to discuss it with me they are welcome to contact a Star Fraction diplomat. Otherwise I am content to continue debating the matter in public and full view of IGS scrutiny.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.03 16:34:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
He has been barred from the shortlist for the PIE Inc. "amarrian of the year" for his acts of piracy and ransoming against a neutral industrial alliance in Amarrian hisec.



That's your assumption.

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2009.12.03 16:56:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
1st time because he failed to meet our activity standards, 2nd time because he fell well short of our communications standards in public debate.



Jade, Jade, Jade...

Always with the retrospective propaganda. We parted the first time because of a disagreement over the future direction of the group, and the second because I saw how you were the same as the empires of man in the way you infected people with memetics to control them (I think there might have been an incident with a hijacked clone as well, but I was abusing boosters at the time so my recall is fuzzy).

My only interest in you and your merry group of brigands and layabouts is in the minor threat you present to the good order of the Empire. Once I have my affairs in order and have my ships run up to combat readiness I am sure we will run across each other in space.


Wayward Daughter
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.03 17:16:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Wayward Daughter on 03/12/2009 17:40:13
So, it turns out that the supposedly "neutral" LS-S7 has a clear agenda that's not at all neutral. That didn't take very long. And yet they're calling the CVA a house of liars? Remove first the plank from your own eye, Mister Charon, before you seek to remove the speck your neighbor's eye. In common parlance, that means that you should address your own blatant hypocrisy and inconsistency before you attempt to criticize others for their (according to you) hypocrisy and inconsistency.



Originally by: Jade Constantine
I believe the reason the CVA like to discuss such things in private is because they are afraid of having a public spotlight turned on their hypocrisy and deceit Gaven Lok'ri.

  • Does not the esteemed CVA have a "public spotlight turned on their hypocricy [sic] and deceit" every day by the likes of yourself and other heathen detractors?

  • Does not the esteemed CVA exist and prosper through the Grace of God despite your ineffectual efforts to besmirch its reputation with your daily dose of drivel?


Originally by: Jade Constantine
I do not believe they are capable of conducting honest diplomacy in any way shape or form.

  • Does not the esteemed CVA offer carte blanche permissions for access to its territory for all non-offenders?

  • Does not the esteemed CVA offer a small corps of diplomats and representatives which one may contact to address questions?

  • Did not one such representative of the esteemed CVA speak in this very thread, and point towards the proper avenue for diplomatic discussion?

  • Have not other pilots not involved in the leadership of the esteemed CVA also spoken up in this thread, and pointed towards the proper avenue for diplomatic discussion?



Originally by: Jade Constantine
It is in the Amarrian Nationalist psyche to lie and cheat and steal what is not yours. The reality of this situation is simply that Garst Tyrell as an Amarrian Nationalist is "above" the CVA's law and can do what he pleases and use Providence as a safe haven afterwards.

It is in the Amarrian Loyalist psyche to obey the edicts of the Empress, whom speaks for the Empire; to follow the edicts of the Theology Council, whom speaks for them Empire when the Empress does not; to follow the edicts of the Heirs and Holders, whom speaks for the Empire when the Empress and Theology Council does not; and so on. I do not claim to know the full details of whatever situation you're presently using as a springboard for verbal attacks against the esteemed CVA, but I am fairly sure that neither Her Majesty nor the Theology Council has issued edicts concerning what is ultimately a very small and wholly forgettable encounter between capsuleers.

You are left then, if I recall my Master's lessons on the government correctly, with the edicts of the individual Holders whom hold claim to the territories you mention. In this case, that would be the Holders of the Delivered Stars in Providence. The decisions of how the Delivered Stars are developed, and how their organizations respond to other organizations, are ultimately theirs to make. Barring intervention by Her Majesty or the Theology Council, the local Holders have full power of law to run their claimed territories as they see fit; and God-fearing Amarrians are bound by that law, not by what you think the law should be. In short: if the CVA says that Garst Tyrell is not a criminal, then he is not a criminal.

I personally find it amusing that you dissenters and "freedom fighters" go out of your way to clamor about how you shouldn't have to be judged by the standards of others, but every time someone does something you don't like, there you are stomping at the proverbial gate and trying to enforce your standards on others. To you I give the same advice that I gave Mister Charon: remove first the plank from your own eye, and then remove the speck from your neighbor's eye.

Geonin
Amarr
No.Mercy
Merciless.
Posted - 2009.12.03 17:19:00 - [25]
 

When I first saw this post's name I thought it might be an interesting read.

But I essentially stopped reading when it mentioned No.Mercy - and realized that this was just another whine thread from those who choose to hide under the blanket of a broken mechanic.

Pretty sad.

Good day

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.12.03 17:41:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Wayward Daughter
So, it turns out that the supposedly "neutral" LS-S7 has a clear agenda that's not neutral. That didn't take very long to emerge: frankly, I'm at a loss for words.


Well from your side of the fence anyone who isn't a lockstep-marching Nationalist is always going to look "disloyal" not sure what you were expecting really. Politics is partizan. No surprise.

Wayward Daughter
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.03 17:46:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Wayward Daughter
So, it turns out that the supposedly "neutral" LS-S7 has a clear agenda that's not neutral. That didn't take very long to emerge: frankly, I'm at a loss for words.


Well from your side of the fence anyone who isn't a lockstep-marching Nationalist is always going to look "disloyal" not sure what you were expecting really. Politics is partizan. No surprise.

I believe you are mistaking the Holy Amarr Empire for her ally the Caldari State. Nationalism has nothing to do with Faith, and it is ultimately God to whom the Faithful are enslaved; not a man, and certainly not one of man's creations. I will pray for you, Jade Constantine, that your eyes may be cleared of the plank lodged in them, and the vision of God made clear to you.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2009.12.03 17:47:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Wayward Daughter
Wayward indeed.

Pitiful.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.03 18:03:00 - [29]
 

- Garst Tyrell is the target of a Star Fraction smear campaign, they use terms like 'brigand' and 'wolfshead' to describe him.
- Garst Tyrell was accused and condemned by SF of not meeting the highest standards that should be expected from a loyalist
- Garst Tyrell was accused and condemned by SF of not following very strict NRDS protocols
- I was recently condemned by SF of for not following very strictest NRDS protocols

Would it not be reasonable to say that in the eyes of Star Fraction Garst Tyrell (the brigand, the wolfshead, the blackheart) is somewhat of an anarchist? Would it not be reasonable to say that Star Fraction seems to publicly condemn and revile anarchist-like behaviour such given as above? Now, how about SF themselves?

- SF members are expected to conform to a strict NRDS policy absolutely, or are expelled
- SF members have to meet 'activity standards' or may be expelled
- SF members have to meet 'communication standards in the public debate' or may be expelled
- SF diplomats must abide by absolute confidentiality or may be expelled

Would it not be reasonable to say that such strict standards and policies with severe penalties are the mark of a totalitarian organization? (and certainly not an anarchist organization).

Either ms. Constantine has confused the meaning of the words 'anarchist' and 'totalitarian', or her alliance has mutated into the very thing she says to hate and fight.

"Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one"

Perhaps she should have heeded this classic philosopher

Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2009.12.03 18:15:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Wayward Daughter
In moments like these, Sir, I am reminded that it is my place to be silent and let my betters speak.


I told you this was a rubbish theory when you said it, and I believe you have certainly proved it now.

I will cast in my one vote for Mr. Charon, in that I don't believe him to be a spy, and I don't believe him to be actively attempting a slander campaign.

However he does seem to admire SF, which makes him suspect, so I'm not sure.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only