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blankseplocked the loki- i guess its just not good at anything then...
 
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Tista
Posted - 2009.11.27 17:51:00 - [31]
 

It's designed with 1 strength that none of the others get and that is having the same sig radius as a frig with the dps of a battlecruiser, whilst still being the fastest, and sustaining an ok-ish tank.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.27 19:08:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva
Well, for starters, you have the option to armor tank. Also, I'd like to see a Huginn like setup that's worthwhile without being silly. In other words it decently outperforms the Huginn while not using idiotic officer/deadspace crap.


I saw a very cool Sac-Huginn-Vaga setup a while ago. I wish I could find it, but it spammed HAMs, pointed, and webbed from 30KM (needed a faction point and web, but big whup), and was impressively agile and fast as well.

The stats didn't seem insane individually, but when you put it all together it looked ferocious.

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.27 19:41:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: NightmareX on 27/11/2009 19:51:49
I have so far only found one setup that i like on the PVP version of the Loki.

It's this setup:

High-Slot:
6 x 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M

Med-Slot:
1 x Republic Fleet 10MN MicroWarpdrive
1 x Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
2 x Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier

Low-Slot:
1 x Damage Control II
2 x Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
1 x Federation Navy 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates
1 x 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1 x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Rigs:
3 x Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Subsystems:
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

Drones:
5 x Hobgoblin II (In space)
5 x Hobgoblin II (Extra in drone cargo)

Not the cheapest setup out there. But it's pretty effective.

It does 1433 m/s before the MWD is overloaded. It does 2019 m/s when the MWD is overloaded. It have 178752 EHP (28040 Armor HP) with a LG Slave Set. It have 96.7% EM, 89.4% Thermal, 75.6% Kinetic and 70.7% Explosive resists to.

It also have a dual webber that webs up to 45.5 km with the webs overloaded. It goes to over 52 km when your in a gang with web bonus.

But, it's only doing 450 DPS with Barrage M though. But you can't have it allVery Happy.

And the capacitor lasts for 3 mins and 3 seconds, but then, your not MWD'ing all the time.

Those stats are with those implants: Full LG Slave Set, Ogdin's Eye Coordination Enhancer, Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Squire' CC8, Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co 'Gunslinger' CX-2 & Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KZA2000 implants.

Ofc, you don't need to use the most expensive implants though, but the KZA2000 implant are needed anyways to be able to fit this setup. Or you could change the Federation Navy 1600mm plate out for a 1600mm RTP with no need for any CPU implants.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.11.27 19:45:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Mr Ignitious
I think it is INCREDIBLY stupid that the tengu is more agile than the loki.


What's so stupid? This is typical of the races. Minmatar is the fastest with decent agility, Caldari is the slowest but with the best agility. Having the fastest race as also the most agile probably wouldn't be good for balance.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.11.27 20:20:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 27/11/2009 20:23:47
Originally by: Marko Riva
Also, I'd like to see a Huginn like setup that's worthwhile without being silly. In other words it decently outperforms the Huginn while not using idiotic officer/deadspace crap.


If by outperforming you mean can web further than a Huginn can, well thats not possible, and it shouldnt anyway.

My definition of outperforming is more along the lines of "can take on a lot more targets solo than a Huginn can while enjoying the same level of relative safety, and absolutely wiping the floor with a Huginn foolish enough to engage you", which is rather simple to achieve.

I'd not deadspace fit it (or officer for that matter), only things that make sense imo are the faction webs and points that go on the respective HAC / recon anyway.

Bottom line is fly it the minmatar way, dont try to specialize too much but look for versatility, it perfectly fits into that philosophy.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.28 01:38:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Anubis Xian
...that the others simply can't do as well as the Loki can.

And what exactly a Loki can do other ships can't do better?


I'm assuming that question was supposed to sound like something other than Gutterspeak, but the Loki does the cloaking pirate thing better than the others. It has more synergy with its subsystems. Raw DPS and tank are only so useful after all.

Grarr Wrexx
Posted - 2009.11.28 02:15:00 - [37]
 

Atleast your ship can do something. Lets note the advantages of the legion:


and now the disadvantages:

A pilgrim with 0 DPS
a harbinger at 20 times the cost
a sacrilege at 10 times the cost

Our EHP is inferior to proteus
Our DPS is inferior to proteus
Our active tank is inferior to tengu

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2009.11.28 04:10:00 - [38]
 

Having considerable experience with all four T3s, I can safely say that I'd take a Loki over the Legion or Tengu any day. Tengu might be the crowd favourite, but it doesn't control a battlefield nearly as well as a Loki - and the Legion is just a lump of rectal vomit with defective DPS and pathetic subsystem options.

Sweet Laylah
Posted - 2009.11.28 04:26:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Sweet Laylah on 28/11/2009 04:27:06

Originally by: Marko Riva
Also, I'd like to see a Huginn like setup that's worthwhile without being silly. In other words it decently outperforms the Huginn while not using idiotic officer/deadspace crap.


People really need learn to think for themselves ... but here, for you free of charge:

[Loki, Loginn]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Dark Blood Warp Disruptor
Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier
Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier
Large Shield Extender II

Dread Guristas Cloaking Device
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M

Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender II
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II

Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding


Warrior II x5


Faster, more agile, twice dps and more tank than a huginn. Overheats very nicely for extra ranged tackle love.

Yeh u need to pony up for the faction webs but if you can afford teh ship u can afford them.

Nothing wrong with a loki except for people who think in terms of biggest tank/most dps, but most of them fly drakes anyway. ugh

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.28 05:25:00 - [40]
 

Since I couldn't find the HAM Loki setup I saw a while back (I remember the guy posted it, and then was discouraged by a deluge of nay-sayers), I loaded up EFT and tweaked until I got something I liked.

[Loki, SacriHugiBond]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Republic Fleet 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender

Medium S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

3x Warrior II
2x Valkyrie II
2x Vespa EC-600
3x Hornet EC-300


This ship feels like it has all the solo potential of the Vagabond, with more survivability. Here are stats compared to a bog standard Vaga:

K Vaga:

428 DPS w/ Barrage + Drones.
350 DPS @ 18KM. 264 DPS @ 27KM (say you had a faction point.)
442m/s base speed, 2939 m/s MWD
4.1 s align base, 5.8s MWD
8629 shields, 75%E 60%T 40%K 50%X
One medium neut.
23,732 EHP
Cap lasts 3min with MWD + Tackle on.

SacriHugiBond:

476 DPS w/ CN Missiles + Drones. Same DPS out to ~30KM.
351 m/s base speed, 2229 m/s MWD
5.4s align base, 7.5s MWD
7281 shields, 81.2%E 70%T 55%K 62.5%X
28,660 EHP
35KM Web
Two medium neuts
Full flight of ECM Drones spare
Cap lasts 6min with MWD+Tackle on.

The only problem I see with this fit is that I had a spare hi-slot I wasn't 100% sure what to do with. Extra guns or smart bombs required fitting mods. The only thing that fit without finagling was a Medium shield rep, which isn't particularly useful on a solo ship...but would be good in a gang of similar ships (ship has a bonus to shield rep, incidentally). Thoughts or suggestions?

Maeve Kell
Posted - 2009.11.28 08:58:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Maeve Kell on 28/11/2009 08:59:41
Originally by: Grarr Wrexx
Atleast your ship can do something. Lets note the advantages of the legion:


and now the disadvantages:

A pilgrim with 0 DPS
a harbinger at 20 times the cost
a sacrilege at 10 times the cost

Our EHP is inferior to proteus
Our DPS is inferior to proteus
Our active tank is inferior to tengu


Hey.. it can also be an sniperzealot for 10 times the cost

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.11.28 13:24:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Grimpak

the worse T3 is the legion. Loki is somewhat on par with the proteus while the tengu is the best.

If you compare T3's without any regard to other racial cruisers and mostly in terms of DPS and tank - yea, I guess legion would come last.

But the simple fact is - loki is the least popular T3.


least popular because, imho, it's a ship that caters for very specific niches.

after domination it will be a better muninn, but only marginally, cuz it will have only 1 more turret, and atm, is a very good command ship.

2 command cpu's and 3 skirmish ganglinks and you have a nimbler, juiced up, but rather frail, claymore, and you can even add the cov ops sub for extra cloakyness.

still, untill CCP releases the 5th sub, I consider the loki to be a ship that suffers from schizophrenia, since it can't decide if it wants to shield or armortank. most of the semi-decent sub configs I tried out end up with shield tankers with way too few lowslots or armor tankers with 5/5 configs on the the med and low slots.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.28 14:09:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Marko Riva on 28/11/2009 14:09:00
Originally by: Seriously Bored
[Loki, SacriHugiBond]


That's the first loki I see that makes some sense although I'm not a fan of the faction sillyness. On your problem on the high slots, that's very easy; 2 dual 180's with RF EM and a medium neut for frig/drone defense as you're orbiting.

If you make that into a down to earth setup it could look like this;

[Loki, SacriHugiBond]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier
Large Shield Extender II

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir


Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2
Vespa EC-600 x3
Hornet EC-300 x2

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.28 15:36:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva

That's the first loki I see that makes some sense although I'm not a fan of the faction sillyness. On your problem on the high slots, that's very easy; 2 dual 180's with RF EM and a medium neut for frig/drone defense as you're orbiting.

If you make that into a down to earth setup it could look like this;


Great suggestions Marko. To explain the faction silliness a bit, to be honest, none of the modules are all that expensive relative to the price of the ship. (Most under 50m, CN BCSs might be a bit more.) The faction MWD does wonderful things for the cap, and it's only the shield extender which is probably frivolous, though it still think it's a reasonable price.

Anyway, I've taken your setup and made just one or two tweaks Smile Awesome, awesome suggestions, but I think the ship still needs more agility than one Nano can give. The new setup has 433 missile + drone DPS @26KM...lost a little bit of range, but not that bad. 8373 shield buffer, 83.6%E 73.7%T 60.6%K 67.2%X resists, and 38,482 EHP.

[Loki, Loki: SacriHugiBond Solo Machine]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Republic Fleet 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

2x Warrior II
3x Valkyrie II
3x Vespa EC-600
2x Hornet EC-300

Mr Ignitious
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.11.28 19:03:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva
Edited by: Marko Riva on 28/11/2009 14:09:00
Originally by: Seriously Bored
[Loki, SacriHugiBond]


That's the first loki I see that makes some sense although I'm not a fan of the faction sillyness. On your problem on the high slots, that's very easy; 2 dual 180's with RF EM and a medium neut for frig/drone defense as you're orbiting.

If you make that into a down to earth setup it could look like this;

[Loki, SacriHugiBond]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier
Large Shield Extender II

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir


Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2
Vespa EC-600 x3
Hornet EC-300 x2



Awesome fit, I like it a lot. /applause.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.28 19:50:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored
updated fit


Still think those CN BCS are silly, they give a total of 20dps more while increasing cost by a ton, not worth it. Also not so sure on the faction LSE, yeah it helps a bit but not sure if it's worth it, as they're not too expensive I'll let it slide. I will however concede in regards to the MWD, especially as you can do DPS while MWDing it's part of it's defense.

But the other changes you made are not good, THE reason to fly this over a Huginn is it's ability to stay at range, outside heavy neuts etc. It's the sole reason to use it; no heavy neuts and somewhat comfortably on the right side of scorch HP's (not everyone has 5/5 range skills).

I switched the rigs around; flight time instead of missile speed, you lose a bit of range due to the initial missile acceleration and as I see it using flight time rigs diminishes that effect.

On the speed thing itself, yeah it's not THAT fast but it'll be fast enough, besides due to not needing to overheat any other mids you could just burn your MWD a bit if needed. Still, the ship is very susceptable to a close range agressive scram/web intie or AF and there's no real way to cure that.

This is what I'd prolly end up with, fitting and 'faction wise':


[Loki, SacriHugiBond]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Gallente Navy 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir


Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2
Vespa EC-600 x3
Hornet EC-300 x2

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.28 20:09:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 28/11/2009 20:19:08
Originally by: Marko Riva

On the speed thing itself, yeah it's not THAT fast but it'll be fast enough, besides due to not needing to overheat any other mids you could just burn your MWD a bit if needed. Still, the ship is very susceptable to a close range agressive scram/web intie or AF and there's no real way to cure that.

This is what I'd prolly end up with, fitting and 'faction wise':


Looks good to me! I'll concede the cost/benefit of faction damage mods is probably over top, but I was counting on the survivability of this ship being worth it. In any case, it seems we're splitting hairs over something that should work very well in general (at a point where we're tweaking speed/buffer VS range/cost). Glad you liked the idea enough to put all that work into it, and your end results are really great.

Quick note about the AFs/Inties: These guys are the reason I originally had double medium neuts on there. From what I've read and (infrequently, I'm usually in a gang) experienced, a single large neut will cap them out but only for a few seconds, and a single medium isn't enough to dry their cap out to escape in a reasonable time. Still, I think you're onto something with the d180s.

jaybob35
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.11.29 11:09:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Thuranni
Itt: People who can't think outside the box.

Loki Autocannon + remote shield boosting gang.


this 2 or more loki's working together with complex/faction (which are surprisingly cheap) remote shield rep not to mention the super duper sheild resists. and u could have some funz.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.11.29 14:05:00 - [49]
 

I use this. Rat with Plasma, kill shield tanking ratters with EMP and armour tanking ratters with Fusion. When they are alone and under fire from rats obviously.

[Loki, Cloaki]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Expanded Probe Launcher I, Combat Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier


Zayne Zacharias
Amarr
Posted - 2009.11.29 15:48:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Vadimik
Edited by: Vadimik on 27/11/2009 06:25:36

So, yes, Loki is the least used T3. And, no, EFT will not give a clear answer "why", unless you really fly T3.



Your senses are correct, and prepare to be dazzled by my revelation!

... No, i'm not gay.

Loki is the least used T3 ship, as seen above. While it is admittedly versatile (then again, so is the Typhoon), it really lacks features that people look for in a 600mil+ ship. Except for the covert-ops/interdiction nullifer fit, which all four Strategic Cruisers are able to use.

This analysis assumes you are using the Strategic Cruiser in missions or small-gang PVP, as they are fairly uncommon in fleet battles for various reasons. This is a very generalized analysis, but has been confirmed in EFT and on Singularity.

All fits are T2 modules, with the exception of Armor repair/Shield boosters and damage mods, which are the highest-tier faction modules. Rigs are T1.

For example (in no particular order):

Legion is often fit in two ways, the Super-sac or the Super-Zealot (my nicknames). It balances a capacity for damage with an extremely sturdy armor tank (which can be cap stabled passively, for those mission runners out there). It is also devastating in small-gang PVP due to "Legion Offensive - Energy Parasitic Complex", as well as the capacity to fit PVP modules. To make a long story short:

Strengths:
Impressive damage
Very durable armor tank (but not at the same time as above)
Excellent capacitor/powergrid
Versatile, perhaps more so than Loki (imho)


Tengu is usually bought for its terrifying shield tankability. I also grudgingly admit that it is the best missioning T3, which is what many of these ships are used for. Let's add in the fact that a large proportion of EVE's population is Caldari - and will therefore want the missile-throwing shield-tanked ship.

Strengths:
Extreme shield tank
Long-ranged missile bombardment/short ranged HAM spammer.
Notable DPS (lots of empty lows for BCUs)
Best missioning T3 (to be expected from the Caldari)

Proteus is a sturdy contribution from the Gallente, the usual mix of microwarping + blasters + drones. The Proteus, while not in the same ballpark as the Tengu and Legion in terms of outright defence, is a terrifying PVP ship in its own right - mounting a sturdy tank in addition to firepower and PVP modules, and an excellent tackler.

Strengths:
Sturdy armor tank
Impressive damage potential
Excellent for PVP

This is the interesting part:

Legion vs. Loki
Tank fit - Legion (Legion was able to tank the Loki cap stable)
Gank fit - Loki (Loki outdamages Legion)
Balanced - Legion (Legion tanked Loki, and eventually was victorious)
Mission - Tie (winner is unclear)
PVP - Legion

Tengu vs. Loki
Tank fit - Tengu (Due to Loki's lack of active tank bonus)
Gank fit - Tengu (with T2 HAMs, retaining tank)
Balanced - Tengu (Combination of above)
Mission - Tengu
PVP - Loki (Tengu unable to web/scram. ECM Tengu not tested)

Proteus vs. Loki
Tank fit - Proteus (Loki's lack of active tank bonus)
Gank fit - Loki (Proteus partially dependant on drones)
Balanced - Proteus
Mission - Proteus (Loki has fitting issues)
PVP - Tie

Therefore, my opinion of the Loki is a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none (except webbing). Yes, it is better than the Muninn and the Vagabond, but has the agility and speed of the former combined with the fitting issues of the latter. This is much less than I expected from a ship of this value and technology level.

CCP, please bring the Loki up to scratch with its counterparts.

Disclaimer: I have tried to remain fair, just, and unbiased in my review. Please do not flame me for my attempt to put the four Strategic Cruisers against each other, unless you have succeeded in a better attempt. Constructive criticism is very welcome Very Happy

Evemail for more details and/or fitting.


Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
Posted - 2009.11.29 16:43:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Forge Lag on 29/11/2009 16:49:25
Loki and to lesser extent Legion really need the fifth subsystems to be already implemented.

Tweaking the current subs would be nice too, give matar some all-out speed oriented configuration, amarr some pure gankage, nerf the Tengu offensive that was hastily buffed and went gold untested. Get up to date on the metagame and realize matar on this scale and fleet size are preferably shield tankers not armor tankers and adjust slot options accordingly.

Minmatar being the least popular in cruisers, tailored for flexibility and small scale PvP, is incredibly silly. Another sign how CCP missed the ball.

Edit: Tengu can do the shield repping better. Tengu can do the cov ops ganking better.

Johndalar
Posted - 2009.11.29 18:44:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Johndalar on 29/11/2009 19:21:39
Originally by: Spaztick
The Loki is the most adaptable of the T3 ships. While it doesn't do as well as another T3 ship when you pick a specific role, it will outperform all the others at everything else, so it's a matter of knowing what you plan to use it for and build it accordingly. You say it's outclassed, but at what? That's like saying the Nidhoggur sucks because it's got lower resists than the Archon, but the Archon can't shield rep at all or armor rep as well as the Niddy.


The poor Niddy...Crying or Very sad the Archon can out rep the Niddy with three repper going flat out (Niddy can only to two due to crap cap) and have the resists bonus to help local rep. It is better than the Niddy in every way, I wish it was not true cause I love the Niddy's looks but Facts, cold hard numbers and the guys that made Clarion Call 2: Pantheon saying there is no Real use for it.

Originally by: Lord Maldoror
Mind you, in the example mentioned earlier, a Nid with 5% grid implant for five reps would technically be highest repping Pantheon carrier on the field and then some slaves to help armour and you start to cover the bases, assuming you can keep on top of the cap situation. But you'd still be hard pushed to pick it over the cap-monster Archon with resist bonus for this kind of thing and when the tank's holding, the damage bonus of the Thanatos is nice. Ultimately, it's a carrier with probably the second best bonus but cap/hp/grid limitations mean you have to work harder to get as much out of it (often involving implants, isk, etc.). Given the Minmatar forte in speed, sniping, etc. though, maybe that's as intended.

If we're talking about triage as opposed to Pantheon, then there is a build out there which can self-rep 20k(ish) dps via a mid-meta-level faction shield tank (which would catch up the Archon's local, if not remote, tank, albeit with less EHP & neut resistance). Problem is that the cost involved in that would prevent you using it for low-intel jump & rescue missions, aggressive ops to kill more than you lose, and all those kinds of things, so it goes back to the point of having to work harder to get as much out of it.


These facts make it a Ship that should be removed from the game if it is not changed into something useful, there is no reason to fly it over its peers other than looks. Here's hoping against hope that CCP will give a nod to carriers when they redo mom into .... I can't say it.... so dumb.. the ships Formally known as Mom's.. there that should do.

PS sorry about the off topic post

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2009.11.29 19:15:00 - [53]
 

Loki doesn't suck, it's just that I can buy something better at a job in the minny line for a ton less....

Wetu
Posted - 2009.11.30 20:15:00 - [54]
 

ok i stopped readin after a few replys...
to say the loki suck is just silly..

how about putting 3 faction webs on it and just web the #$%& out of your opponents at 35km..
while having a tengu kill them :

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2009.11.30 23:01:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 30/11/2009 23:02:53
Originally by: Marko Riva
Also not so sure on the faction LSE, yeah it helps a bit but not sure if it's worth it, as they're not too expensive I'll let it slide.


People are running missions for Thukker? Really? I have never seen a Thukker LSE on contracts, ever. Never seen any Thukker shwag at all, for that matter.

Originally by: Wetu
how about putting 3 faction webs on it and just web the #$%& out of your opponents at 35km..
while having a tengu kill them :


A Huginn does a better job for a lot less. Can you put 5 webs on your Loki?

Otebski
Posted - 2009.12.01 00:16:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Zayne Zacharias


Strengths:
Impressive
Legion vs. Loki
Tank fit - Legion (Legion was able to tank the Loki cap stable)




uhm how on earth?
Just using faction booster loki can tank something like 800dps cap stable in EM depertment.
There is no way in hell legion can break shield loki's tank.
My loki has like 92% Em resist.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.01 13:53:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Guillame Herschel

People are running missions for Thukker? Really? I have never seen a Thukker LSE on contracts, ever. Never seen any Thukker shwag at all, for that matter.


Err, buddy... Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender. I think you missed the notes on the last patch before Dominion.

In any case, even though it's less than 50m, it's probably smarter to just go with an LSEII and save your isk for the better MWD.


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