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blankseplocked eve on windows 7 64 bit, running dual creens with a gforce GTS 250
 
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Nocts
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:42:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Zeba
general use software goes 64bit.
Like entire Operating Systems? Adobe? Flash? Firefox? Gimp? Office? OpenOffice?
Most of the "General use" software has a 64-bit variant. Even 7-zip has it, and that's a pretty small developer team.

Emperor D'Hoffryn
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:44:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 26/11/2009 00:44:43
Originally by: Nocts
Edited by: Nocts on 26/11/2009 00:36:03
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
but I'm sure you will be back to correct me, the guy with access to the entire windows source code depository, on what the real issue is.*sigh*

3.25 is the hard limit for XP32bit, and that's backed up by PAE. If you want to pull "I work for MS", I may be the wrong person to talk to. What is your MID number? I'll happily toss an email to say "hello".

edit: also - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28VS.85%29.aspx#memory_limitsThe limitation of what the OS is going to allocate versus what the OS is capable of detecting properly. You won't break 3.25 (PAE excluded) in WXP32Bit


ah, you are talking about the user mode address space for 32-bit processes. We were discussing different things. Yes, due to the OS using parts of memory for other things, the amount of memory for any given user process will never hit the 4gig limit, but thats not "sloppy code" thats just another reason to move to 64-bit.

and by MID to you mean my alias? Not sure I would want to post it in a public forum, but if you feel comfortable posting yours, I can send you an email.

Krankyoldlady
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:45:00 - [33]
 

Off topic?
Plz, we ended up trolling along wheter i should run a 64 bit OS or a 32...
Think.... does anyone really expect me to reistall XP 32?


Well here is a news flash, i wont, so yes im going for the drivers, check that out and see of another solution i was poimted to by a friend.
Setting the ingame resolution exactly as the main screen you play the game on.
Might just do the trick, remember running dual screen...

Ill let yall know and look forward to more reading:)

Wyehr
Rage of Inferno
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:45:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
plus, due to the genius that is the AMD x64 instruction set, there is no overhead for running a 32-bit program on 64-bit windows, and actually can be faster, since each 32-bit process can have its own entire 32-bit address space.


Sorry dude, processes have had their own 32 bit (4 GB) address space since the 80386 days. x64 enables larger address spaces, up to 64 bits.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:48:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Zeba on 26/11/2009 00:50:27
Originally by: Nocts
Originally by: Zeba
general use software goes 64bit.
Like entire Operating Systems? Adobe? Flash? Firefox? Gimp? Office? OpenOffice?
Most of the "General use" software has a 64-bit variant. Even 7-zip has it, and that's a pretty small developer team.
Well I guess I meant stuff like games which is the core of the general use programs for the general public and the op in particular. I'm just trying to say that right at this moment in time as a gamer running Eve he is better off with 32bit win7. Will that change? Probably soon but its not happened yet. Razz

Originally by: Krankyoldlady
Off topic?
Plz, we ended up trolling along wheter i should run a 64 bit OS or a 32...
Think.... does anyone really expect me to reistall XP 32?


Well here is a news flash, i wont, so yes im going for the drivers, check that out and see of another solution i was poimted to by a friend.
Setting the ingame resolution exactly as the main screen you play the game on.
Might just do the trick, remember running dual screen...

Ill let yall know and look forward to more reading:)
Sorry, nerd rage is highly infectious. Embarassed

Yeah the drivers are probably at the heart of the problem. I used the stock nvidia drivers for my 9800gtx+ and had a few glitches so I rolled back to the ones included with the win7 disk and updated from windows update. Fixed it all up.

Emperor D'Hoffryn
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:50:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Krankyoldlady
Off topic?
Plz, we ended up trolling along wheter i should run a 64 bit OS or a 32...
Think.... does anyone really expect me to reistall XP 32?


Well here is a news flash, i wont, so yes im going for the drivers, check that out and see of another solution i was poimted to by a friend.
Setting the ingame resolution exactly as the main screen you play the game on.
Might just do the trick, remember running dual screen...

Ill let yall know and look forward to more reading:)


I run duel screen as well. Since my Nvidia card died, I moved to an ATI radeon 5850. I run up to 3 clients at a time, in 1680x1050 windows with my screens running at 1920x1200. It ran fine at first on my 8800gtx, but then it started to slowly have problems, and eventually the video driver would restart just sitting at the desktop. I hope yours is not suffering the same fate, but be sure to check the thermals and clean out the fan, can't hurt.

Emperor D'Hoffryn
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:55:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Wyehr
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
plus, due to the genius that is the AMD x64 instruction set, there is no overhead for running a 32-bit program on 64-bit windows, and actually can be faster, since each 32-bit process can have its own entire 32-bit address space.


Sorry dude, processes have had their own 32 bit (4 GB) address space since the 80386 days. x64 enables larger address spaces, up to 64 bits.


bad wording on my part, I agree. I won't be sneaky and ninja edit it, but this page:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28VS.85%29.aspx#memory_limits

shows that by default, the user space limit per process in 32-bit windows is 2gig (can be upped to 3) while in 64-bit windows it can be the full 4 gig.

For appropriate 32-bit programs, this can mean a extra gig of memory. Not every 32-bit program would benefit of course.

Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
Capital Construction Research
Posted - 2009.11.26 01:11:00 - [38]
 

Please stop typing if you have no idea what you're talking about :S

Dianna Soreil
Monolithic.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2009.11.26 01:16:00 - [39]
 

Quote:
Like entire Operating Systems? Adobe? Flash? Firefox? Gimp? Office? OpenOffice?
Most of the "General use" software has a 64-bit variant. Even 7-zip has it, and that's a pretty small developer team.


Compiling to 64 bits is p ****ing easy nowadays with modern frameworks.

Nocts
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.11.26 01:49:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
ah, you are talking about the user mode address space for 32-bit processes. We were discussing different things. Yes, due to the OS using parts of memory for other things, the amount of memory for any given user process will never hit the 4gig limit, but thats not "sloppy code" thats just another reason to move to 64-bit.
We were on two different pages, I see now :)

I was going to send an evemail, but I figure since it was public what I say next should be public:

Sorry for biting your head off, and sorry to the OP for the massive derailing of the train. I've had a terrible day today, and while that's no excuse for going raptor on people, I am sorry.

Emperor D'Hoffryn
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.26 02:17:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Nocts
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
ah, you are talking about the user mode address space for 32-bit processes. We were discussing different things. Yes, due to the OS using parts of memory for other things, the amount of memory for any given user process will never hit the 4gig limit, but thats not "sloppy code" thats just another reason to move to 64-bit.
We were on two different pages, I see now :)

I was going to send an evemail, but I figure since it was public what I say next should be public:

Sorry for biting your head off, and sorry to the OP for the massive derailing of the train. I've had a terrible day today, and while that's no excuse for going raptor on people, I am sorry.


No problems. On the up side, this thread helped me avoid quite a bit of work on the last day before a long holiday. Nothing like a little Nerd Rage to pass the time.

Good Luck to the OP, I hope all he needs is that driver update.

CCP Applebabe

Posted - 2009.11.26 04:13:00 - [42]
 

Moved from General Discussion to Issues,Workarounds &Localization.

Omal Oma
Shadowed Command
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2009.11.26 06:23:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Omal Oma on 26/11/2009 06:25:43

My 64-bit processor pees further than your 32-bit application.

True story.

You're all trying to prove points and argue things that really don't mean anything.


Here's an argument for you:

Microsoft is holding back the industry by continuing to develop Windows on a 32-bit platform and releasing it to the masses when any processor (short of the atoms)are all developed with 64-bit technology. In other words, the industry hardware wise is ready, software and OS developers like MS are holding it back.


/discuss

EDIT:
@OP: Try updating your drivers. been said, but I thought I'd repeat it.

Krankyoldlady
Posted - 2009.11.26 19:25:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Krankyoldlady on 26/11/2009 19:25:38
Update and do me a favor, stop debating **** i aint gonne change cause you think im a nerd or something, doesnt help me.
Anyway: tried every driver since the one i had to the beta latest, no go.
Right now eve is unplayeble even with one screen, so yea its gotten from bad to worse and the fun part is, im not alone, got friends everywhere that have a issue since the latest patch...

Bishop120
Caldari
Steel Fleet
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.11.27 00:36:00 - [45]
 

Your problem definitely sounds like a drivers problem. Try the new 191 drivers. I cant guarantee they will make a difference or not but it couldnt hurt.

A question to all the other multi client users..

I just upgrade to 2 HD monitors and now when I open up a 3rd client at 1920X1080 my system comes to a near halt. So far the best I can manage is 1 at 1920X1080 and 2 at 1360X768. Now previously with just 1 monitor I was able to run all 3 clients fullscreen at 1920X1080. The only thing I can think of is that its just to much for my old 8800GTX to handle. But Im curious as to whether its the video memory (758mb) or the video processing power that is the issue?

On the whole 64-32 question.. All my systems that I have built these last few years have been 4gigs+ in ram and with the exception of 1 printer driver for a printer thats from 2003 I have not had a single issue with running 64bit. I would say that I have seen fewer issues with the 64bit than the 32 bit. I plan to always use 64bit from now on untill we move to 128bit Twisted Evil For those who still swear by 32bit... yall are living in the past.. just move on.

Krankyoldlady
Posted - 2009.11.27 16:17:00 - [46]
 

I think i have it solved, i let windows set the pagefile again, system managed, i have taken my whole machine back to stock settings in te bios, and reseated the cooler on the proccesor , reseated the vidcard.
I will test it more tonight but things look good so far.
Im typingh thisto give some insight on the whole 32-64 and drivers issue.
Didnt have a crash so far:)
Could be as simple as a page file....

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.11.28 22:32:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: CyberGh0st on 28/11/2009 22:34:42
Originally by: Zeba
There is no reason for you to be running win7 64bit with your listed hardware unless you have a specific 64bit program that requires it. You gain nothing performance wise and run the risk of driver and program incompatibilities like the one you made the thread about.


To each their own I guess, but I prefer to be able to use all my RAM if needed. With 32bit windows, 4GB RAM and a 512MB video card, you are only able to use 3,25GB RAM ( 4GB minus 256MB for system resources minus 512MB for VGA ). If the OP has a 1GB version, then he only has 2,75GB of RAM left to use.

Driver issues are no longer worse than with 32bit vista or win7. Haven't been for a while now. Of course you should get decent parts from a good brand. All of the regular programs work fine under 64bit, wether they are 32bit or 64bit.

So 64bit has the clear advantage of being able to adress more than 4GB, and no downsides at all ( if you assembled your system with Win7 64bit in mind ).

If you like to run 2 or more EVE instances, some internet explorer windows, a firewall, antivirus, evemon, eft, and maybe some more stuff, then 4GB is certainly not a waste.


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